in regards to the queen (north team) when you want to reach the middle outpost i just select the right side (between outposts and your north base) and when it reaches the side (just a little bit to the side) i select middle outposts which does not slow because it is too far away from the queen. Its a skill to master but after 4-6 times you can do it instantly.
in regards to your 1 hour 50 min game you were doing something wrong. Either you were not attack him probably (attack 1vs1, not 1vs4 or your weapons were not good). best way to counter marines/marauders vulture gatling total cost 13,800. have two of them probably need 4 because you were at 1 hour 50 min mark. upgrades of army is not that important. what is important is the amount of barracks. if i had to choose to buy 8 barracks vs 4 barracks and 3-4 upgrades i will choose 8 barracks. they are not there to destory enemy i use them to push forward. Also if he was alone it is impossible to loose because you always have the outpost. even if he is capturing outpost you can kill their base easily. plus while he capture outpost you can capture others which were captured previously by him. other thing that heroes at the late game usually very slow so you guys had enought of time to capture outposts. so on average at 1 hour 30 min game if enemy is very strong i will build 20-30 barracks minimum and when my marines passes middle north south outpost i will use them as a shield to capture. i also use them to screen the map. its good not to send all your units at once its good to move them from time to time so you can see if they try to go somewhere the map shows a different color and you can see it. usually this happens when they want to destory your barracks which are outside your base. i also hardly put any turrets due to the amount of barracks i put. they protect themselves.
i cant imagine how you could loose. he had 6 slots. you had 6 x 4 = 24 slots which mean even if you didnt had a lot of guns 2 people will give the guns to 2 other players and other 2 will just stand and wait for him to show up. other 2 people push. so i cant imagein how we can handle 6 slots x 2 players = 12 Hunter Seeker. At the end of the game Hunter seeker is not that powerful but 12 hunter seekers are. i use it to damage them and make them go back to base and heal. that opportunity allows me to push even further.
other option you could do is to send barracks army to all 3 sides so he will not be able to protect himself from all sides. so as long as you have enough barracks yourself all you need to do is stand behind your units select your mouse on the marine or marauder which is closest to enemy and the vulture gatling fires as i has 4.5 range.
can you send me the replay? like to see
i know all of what u said and we can even watch parts of the replay. you will realize that even 6 vulture gatlings wouldnt have been enoguh!
also we couldnt fight him coz he was in his base while his troops did all for him.
I know the trick with the running, to avoid getting the "slow" debuff but it is something that your teamamtes dont know most of the time
the result:
all arrive at different times at the center point.
i play almost only tank battle win most of my games except the ones, where my mates feed too much. and even in those games i keep having a good kill/death ratio.
still what i'm trying to say is that the mentioned points are still stuff that make it either unbalanced or unfair. i can supply additional replays of games between 45 min - 1h 50 since i saved most of them, just in case i get the opportunity to share it with one of the map developers, one day.
we dont have to watch through all of the videos , even parts of it would be enough, just to show you what i mean and to give you the chance to see with your own eyes cause i am not exaggerating, but trying to show possible bugs and solutions for any patch that might come up...
Ok. this is a simple answer to your game: why you guys lost. When all 3 players left he got 112k, he build in total of 76 barracks withing 3 minutes. It was so quick it is very hard to counter. Plus if this was done in the midgame he could not win because the units are not that strong and your heroes can counter them but it was 1 hour 43 minutes so each unit has 600 life, marauders 4000 - almost imposible. the only way is to destory their barracks which you will need to go through the hills to get there but still - hard. The best unit is a cloack unit - predator
It will be fair if we put a limit on the barracks count. Each person has an x amount of barracks (can be built by him). I watched that long video that Flyhigh told us about in this forum and it looked not fair. If enemy will be limited to x amount of barracks upgrades will be more important and what guns the enemy has i.e. 600 marines and 4000 life marauders is too strong. so i you want to upgrade you can upgrade manually therefore you need outposts to get more money so you need to strategically fight for them.
Ok. this is a simple answer to your game: why you guys lost. When all 3 players left he got 112k, he build in total of 76 barracks withing 3 minutes. It was so quick it is very hard to counter. Plus if this was done in the midgame he could not win because the units are not that strong and your heroes can counter them but it was 1 hour 43 minutes so each unit has 600 life, marauders 4000 - almost imposible. the only way is to destory their barracks which you will need to go through the hills to get there but still - hard. The best unit is a cloack unit - predator
You said you watched through all of it... then you should have seen that i walked thru the hills with doomhammer and destroyed a lot of barracks.
i even encountered another bug while doing so:
With plasma barrage of doomhammer ( i think that is the skills name) i shot at 4 barracks at once. i placed the attack in a way, that all 4 barracks get attacked.
Before i did that, i made sure that all of them are in the attack circle of the skill.
They all were, but they still got almost no dmg.
So obviously the attack doesn't hit the corners of its own "crosshair".
also yeah it was not "almost " impossible. there was nothing that we could have done and as you might have seen, i had one teammate in base and the other one was not that skilled.
Even when i told him what to do, he barely managed to survive and destroy barracks.
i had the predator before i got doomhammer, but in order to destroy the troops i got doomhammer for his skill. Me and my teammate had both doomhammer standing next to each other and fired all we had ( you must have seen that), but still had no chance.
I didnt even know that he had 112k money LOL
and 76 barracks!?
there shouldnt only be a limit for barracks, there should be specially designed places for it ( like the 4 spots in your base), but no further ways to build them. or maybe only 1-2 more per player!
yes.i think 30 barracks limit is a must. if there is more barracks its hard to counter. its very hard when you suddenly place extra 20 barracks enemy cant get through. i mentioned freddy about the limit of barracks in my previous post. anyway good game that was just sudden unexpected result.
i amended the background and removed some text as requested. I also changed "Stress - Free" to "Minerals every 120s". I think this will make more sense.
+
ADDED NEW IMAGE - this should go as first image when you join the lobby.
Also I thought how to fix the barracks issue. I think the more you build barracks the higher the price it should be. I think after 10th barracks the price should increase by 5% like attack and armor upgrades. So i.e. people will not invest so greatly in barracks because they are expensive too as upgrades.
Also I think you should reduce upgrades of armor and attack from 5% to a smaller number. WHY?
I notice that a team who greatly dominated the game and have better weapons cant win if suddenly one team member leaves or sells everything and builds 30 barracks at one time.
Also the north team can not rebuild turrets in the their base in the middle when they are killed. They are vital because the south army moves into their base if there are no turrets on the hill. I still can place a turret for 1000 but not for 2000. Can you check this bug.
Looking at the map again now I understand why north team marines take Route 1 not Route 2 when the rocks are destroyed. It is shorter.
Instead of Route from northern blue base to south outpost make from northern blue base to midway where there is blue team bunker and turret and then from there 2nd command to south outpost. that way you don't need to adjust the terrain.
If you dont know how to do it i can send you a link on youtube.
If you did something recently then probably is fixed. I saw this bug a few weeks ago thought i will remind you. I will let you know. I will upload the map of 800 x 600 shortly
If the restriction is 800 x 600 so maybe upload 600 x 600 because it will look much nicer. Try both and see how blizzard will skew the image if you upload 600 x 600. If it looks terrible replace it with 800 x 600 which is attached below.
Also can you fix this small issue. You can see that there is some red space on the turret (Northern blue team) Due to this spot on both turrets which cost 2000 i can not place a new turret when old turret is destroyed. this is extremely important because if there is no turret the units will keep coming to base.
Been watching your progress with the map for a very long time, and I have to admit that it's pretty impressive what you've made out of this map. It's becoming more and more a competitive, deep map like the original of wc3, I like that :D
But the reason of me writing to you is another: With the new version (4.55 I think), there have come some pretty heavy bugs which makes the map almost unplayable:
- whenever you conquer an outpost, there arent spawned any turrets anymore. In fact, they arent even registered as captured (since you dont get any additional income for them anymore), despite the fact that you get vision in that area. Other than that, an outpost cant be re-captured once anyone has captured it (at least I experienced that at the northern base, when the capture-timer has expired, but nothing was happening)
- some cominable weapons (minigun and tesla cannons for sure) cant be combined with the weapons of their description anymore, you just get a message that you "dont have the right items" in your inventory
some bug which also happened before the patch:
- with some weapons (with laser mk1-mk3 for me), it can occur that, if you kill an enemy marine, you wont get any kill-reward. I cant say for sure, but I guess it's caused if the enemy already was damaged or not (most times I get money if the enemy already was damaged by other units). This doesnt happen with units other that marines.
I hope that you fix the first two bugs as soon as possible, and that you also find some solution for the last one. Good luck with this project, hope to see some more content in the future :D
thanks for your feedback. You were one of the first ones posting in this thread, right? :-D
Hotfixed some code an hour ago - hope this will solve the problem. Changed some triggers to prevent some glitches... seams it just made it worse :-D Thats the downside of changing core components. But maybe some glitches are fixed now.
Minigun and Tesla Cannon combining requirements were changed in the last rebalancing patch. The description was still the old one. Should be fixed.
Hm.. I've nerver heard of that bug with the missing bounty. Basically bounty is a "stock" sc2 mechanic so I dont really know how to track such an error. Maybe its possible some other unit/hero was shooting at the same time and got the kill?
Loving the new changes! The game is becoming even more awesome.
Like the new flames upgrade, but think its a bit imbalanced. Too much power for far too cheap 😁. All the balancing seems to have worked as well.
The new income display is also cool. Always wondered how much extra we got holding the outposts.. Helps people understand that at the start of the game there is very little extra from outposts which means its sill fair game regardless of who owns them for the first 15 mins or so.
I think there should be space to build up to 10 barracks inside the base though.
Max, great loading screen!
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N / A
Replay from 2 newbies:
This is a demonstration what not to buy:
i know all of what u said and we can even watch parts of the replay. you will realize that even 6 vulture gatlings wouldnt have been enoguh! also we couldnt fight him coz he was in his base while his troops did all for him.
I know the trick with the running, to avoid getting the "slow" debuff but it is something that your teamamtes dont know most of the time
the result:
all arrive at different times at the center point.
i play almost only tank battle win most of my games except the ones, where my mates feed too much. and even in those games i keep having a good kill/death ratio.
still what i'm trying to say is that the mentioned points are still stuff that make it either unbalanced or unfair. i can supply additional replays of games between 45 min - 1h 50 since i saved most of them, just in case i get the opportunity to share it with one of the map developers, one day.
we dont have to watch through all of the videos , even parts of it would be enough, just to show you what i mean and to give you the chance to see with your own eyes cause i am not exaggerating, but trying to show possible bugs and solutions for any patch that might come up...
add me ingame in sc2 for the replay
Flyhigh#2243
regards FlyHigh
@FlyHighhh: Go
Ok. this is a simple answer to your game: why you guys lost. When all 3 players left he got 112k, he build in total of 76 barracks withing 3 minutes. It was so quick it is very hard to counter. Plus if this was done in the midgame he could not win because the units are not that strong and your heroes can counter them but it was 1 hour 43 minutes so each unit has 600 life, marauders 4000 - almost imposible. the only way is to destory their barracks which you will need to go through the hills to get there but still - hard. The best unit is a cloack unit - predator
Freddy,
It will be fair if we put a limit on the barracks count. Each person has an x amount of barracks (can be built by him). I watched that long video that Flyhigh told us about in this forum and it looked not fair. If enemy will be limited to x amount of barracks upgrades will be more important and what guns the enemy has i.e. 600 marines and 4000 life marauders is too strong. so i you want to upgrade you can upgrade manually therefore you need outposts to get more money so you need to strategically fight for them.
You said you watched through all of it... then you should have seen that i walked thru the hills with doomhammer and destroyed a lot of barracks. i even encountered another bug while doing so: With plasma barrage of doomhammer ( i think that is the skills name) i shot at 4 barracks at once. i placed the attack in a way, that all 4 barracks get attacked. Before i did that, i made sure that all of them are in the attack circle of the skill. They all were, but they still got almost no dmg. So obviously the attack doesn't hit the corners of its own "crosshair".
also yeah it was not "almost " impossible. there was nothing that we could have done and as you might have seen, i had one teammate in base and the other one was not that skilled.
Even when i told him what to do, he barely managed to survive and destroy barracks.
i had the predator before i got doomhammer, but in order to destroy the troops i got doomhammer for his skill. Me and my teammate had both doomhammer standing next to each other and fired all we had ( you must have seen that), but still had no chance.
I didnt even know that he had 112k money LOL and 76 barracks!?
there shouldnt only be a limit for barracks, there should be specially designed places for it ( like the 4 spots in your base), but no further ways to build them. or maybe only 1-2 more per player!
@FlyHighhh: Go
yes.i think 30 barracks limit is a must. if there is more barracks its hard to counter. its very hard when you suddenly place extra 20 barracks enemy cant get through. i mentioned freddy about the limit of barracks in my previous post. anyway good game that was just sudden unexpected result.
ONE MORE IMAGE FOR GAME INFO
Hm I dont know a mechanic to prevent the building of a certain amount of barracks at the moment. Maybe a point to look after.
Though I dont see thats that much of a problem but in this special case. I mean I cant cover all possible cases :)
@FlyHighhh: Thanks for your feedback. Maybe I have to rethink the way the slowdown is handled. I have no better idea at the moment.
@Maximusssss: thx for your work. I think I will implement pictures in one of the next patches
@Freddy2287: Go
i amended the background and removed some text as requested. I also changed "Stress - Free" to "Minerals every 120s". I think this will make more sense.
+
ADDED NEW IMAGE - this should go as first image when you join the lobby.
Also I thought how to fix the barracks issue. I think the more you build barracks the higher the price it should be. I think after 10th barracks the price should increase by 5% like attack and armor upgrades. So i.e. people will not invest so greatly in barracks because they are expensive too as upgrades. Also I think you should reduce upgrades of armor and attack from 5% to a smaller number. WHY? I notice that a team who greatly dominated the game and have better weapons cant win if suddenly one team member leaves or sells everything and builds 30 barracks at one time.
Also the north team can not rebuild turrets in the their base in the middle when they are killed. They are vital because the south army moves into their base if there are no turrets on the hill. I still can place a turret for 1000 but not for 2000. Can you check this bug.
Looking at the map again now I understand why north team marines take Route 1 not Route 2 when the rocks are destroyed. It is shorter.
Instead of Route from northern blue base to south outpost make from northern blue base to midway where there is blue team bunker and turret and then from there 2nd command to south outpost. that way you don't need to adjust the terrain. If you dont know how to do it i can send you a link on youtube.
Is this bug still present in the current version?
@Freddy2287: Go
If you did something recently then probably is fixed. I saw this bug a few weeks ago thought i will remind you. I will let you know. I will upload the map of 800 x 600 shortly
If the restriction is 800 x 600 so maybe upload 600 x 600 because it will look much nicer. Try both and see how blizzard will skew the image if you upload 600 x 600. If it looks terrible replace it with 800 x 600 which is attached below.
Also can you fix this small issue. You can see that there is some red space on the turret (Northern blue team) Due to this spot on both turrets which cost 2000 i can not place a new turret when old turret is destroyed. this is extremely important because if there is no turret the units will keep coming to base.
already done. You can post such small things via pm.
N / A
SUGGESTED NEW ICONS. Freddy your thoughts?
Blue Laser has a blue shine, green - green shine, rainbow has a rainbow shine (9 layers).
i already sent you DDS for blue flames. Confirm you like the LASER icons and i will send you DDS as well.
Hi Freddy
Been watching your progress with the map for a very long time, and I have to admit that it's pretty impressive what you've made out of this map. It's becoming more and more a competitive, deep map like the original of wc3, I like that :D
But the reason of me writing to you is another: With the new version (4.55 I think), there have come some pretty heavy bugs which makes the map almost unplayable:
- whenever you conquer an outpost, there arent spawned any turrets anymore. In fact, they arent even registered as captured (since you dont get any additional income for them anymore), despite the fact that you get vision in that area. Other than that, an outpost cant be re-captured once anyone has captured it (at least I experienced that at the northern base, when the capture-timer has expired, but nothing was happening)
- some cominable weapons (minigun and tesla cannons for sure) cant be combined with the weapons of their description anymore, you just get a message that you "dont have the right items" in your inventory
some bug which also happened before the patch:
- with some weapons (with laser mk1-mk3 for me), it can occur that, if you kill an enemy marine, you wont get any kill-reward. I cant say for sure, but I guess it's caused if the enemy already was damaged or not (most times I get money if the enemy already was damaged by other units). This doesnt happen with units other that marines.
I hope that you fix the first two bugs as soon as possible, and that you also find some solution for the last one. Good luck with this project, hope to see some more content in the future :D
Hi,
thanks for your feedback. You were one of the first ones posting in this thread, right? :-D
Hotfixed some code an hour ago - hope this will solve the problem. Changed some triggers to prevent some glitches... seams it just made it worse :-D Thats the downside of changing core components. But maybe some glitches are fixed now.
Minigun and Tesla Cannon combining requirements were changed in the last rebalancing patch. The description was still the old one. Should be fixed.
Hm.. I've nerver heard of that bug with the missing bounty. Basically bounty is a "stock" sc2 mechanic so I dont really know how to track such an error. Maybe its possible some other unit/hero was shooting at the same time and got the kill?
Loving the new changes! The game is becoming even more awesome.
Like the new flames upgrade, but think its a bit imbalanced. Too much power for far too cheap 😁. All the balancing seems to have worked as well.
The new income display is also cool. Always wondered how much extra we got holding the outposts.. Helps people understand that at the start of the game there is very little extra from outposts which means its sill fair game regardless of who owns them for the first 15 mins or so.
I think there should be space to build up to 10 barracks inside the base though.
Max, great loading screen!