Yeah, that's what the map evolution posts were about. No doubt DOTA took a lot of map evolution to make it what it is. I doubt a single author just came up with DOTA out of nowhere with no influence whatsoever from previous maps. Which brings back to the topic of the post and the failing of sc2 custom scene...
Anyways, there was a whole defense genre that evloved from the first SST advanced map. And from the defense genre, came the Tower Defense genre which is so popular these days.
There's one critical formula to map evolution, numbers. Specifically, number of mappers. There's very few mappers for sc2, whereas war3 and sc1 had a lot of mappers. When sc2 launched, there were already TONS of maps, and a lot have original ideas. A year after sc2, we have have a dozen mappers now and like no original ideas (there are original maps - just can't play them so the authors quit. And since no one plays them, no one is elaborate off them, so the map evolution stops dead). Without original ideas, there's no map evolution. TUG maps are still the same. Mineralz was interesting but needs a lot of map evolution to make it really good. We won't see it happen as no one will take mineralz and improve upon it.
With the departure of mappers, I just don't see map evolution really happening. The project page definitely have some really great and interesting concepts. But without other mappers to elaborate off the original idea, there is no map evolution.
And what's with soulcalbiur trolling? I was talking about defense maps, the first ever played was SST advanced. Omg, what a fun defense map that was and really brought people into the custom map scenes. Like a usual troll, he twists words and make up stuffs to whine about. Take your own advice, stupid troll...
Never played war3 but sounds like people who are saying its about the same as war3 are lying.
Were there or were there not hundreds of different maps and more than 5 different map types to play from? In sc2 after a year, you can only play a couple different map types and only about 20 maps to choose from. War 3 CANNOT be that bad?
What happened to all the defense maps? I love defense maps and when sc2 launched, i only got to played 2 (art of defense, platform defense). You cannot play any defense maps now at all. In sc1, I must have played dozens of different defense maps within a single month! What happened to all the rpg maps? The only one I ever played was Death Haven, were there or were there not tons of different RPGs in war3? People are lying their teeth off if they are saying sc2 custom map community is as vibrant as war3 at this point.
A) There's the amateur type mappers (me!) who'll put out a bare map that's very unpolished into battle.net just to try it out and play. Then polish it over time. But due to the devolved battle.net, these mappers can't play their creations so they abandon their maps. Occasionally tho, some of their maps do take off and reach page 1 or 2.
B) Then there's the more 'professional' mappers who spend a lot of time polishing up their maps before release. Mephs, Rodgrio, and the TMA project are the more professional types. Their maps are very polished but their maps are't really getting played. I think this is where Blizzard thinks the true problem lies. They want to release the marketplace so these mappers can 'sell' their maps and have their maps be displayed on page 1.
Because whatever you say about the popularity system, its a great success at getting people to play page 1 maps -whatever they are. And when marketplace comes out, page 1 will be filled with the premium maps made by the more 'professional' type mappers.
But its a numbers game, there are way more amateur mappers than the 'professional' types. And so the chances are, a truly original and creative map will come from the amateur sector. There's probably hundreds of amateur mappers in sc2 and only like what, 3 or 4 'professional' type mappers? But the system is designed to discourage amateur mapping. The potential just isn't there for maps to evolve due to the popularity system.
Wow, thanks. I was wondering why the hours played was that high, hehe. As for mobile battle fortress, its the same map as this. The only difference is it didn't look like starships. Just added a tips screen to show levels.
Yeah, lag is definitely a concern for this map. Was thinking about removing all background triggers and reduce the size of the map by 50%. That should reduce most of the lag... and yeah, the reactor menu does not work. Its just a placeholder for what's suppose to be there.
In any case, I've moved on to another new project, yeah! The new project will be called Zombie Roundabout and it's a map based off Mecha Force vs zombies. So far Mobile Battle Fortress inspired Starcruiers -> Death-car Roundabout -> Mecha Force -> and now Zombie ROundabout!
There's only one way to play your map, you need friends, a lot of them. No one is going to just play your map, whether you advertise it or not. You could get lucky though, sometimes a map will shoot to page 1 or 2 then you can play your map. There's no formula for having a page 1 map, it just happens sometimes.
So starting making friends online! THEN play your map.
I thought long and hard about reducing the size -> one of the main reason I went to make another map (mecha force). The mechas are a smaller size.
The thing is, starcruisers is really about the might of a star-ship that can launch huge amount of weapons at once. Its about devastating each other's cruisers and watching the ship blow apart piece by piece. Each indvidual module can be blown away and turn into a flaming piece of wreck. A tiny thing just isn't as impressive. Dunno if you can see the details, but there's actually floating bodies when a piece of the starcruiser gets blown away. :)
->some of the other smaller maps I've made: Defend Against Yourself, Fortress America, Icehot dance off. and Death-car Roundabout. Honestly, I don't think they are that much fun. :p They were made because I had some idea, but they lack that 'fun' polish. The only other big map I've made is Battle at char, I really like that map. Used to play it a lot when b.net had the cycling system.
you can get any player name in a bank and compare with the current
player name, and for the code, he have to change the formula and
checking hard in the trigger map, GL to find that, i have around 2000
triggers.
how do you get player name from a bank file? You pulling our legs, there had been long discussion and no one has figured out how to store player names and compare it.
since there's so much interest in this map (8 bookmarks collected!), i may go back and finish enough of the map to make it playable after I'm done with the current map. For further news, the current project is working out great! Its really lots fun to use colliding shots where the players have to manually aim their weapon. Its very satisfying to aim and actually hit a mass of zombies, blowing big chunks into the them!
oh, what i meant was this map wasn't complete. Its not even playable, I didn't think people would even find the testing version. :) So far, everything is done just for testing the triggers and stuffs..
But if you know how to edit maps, you can probably make it playable. It 'is' kinda playable since the basic weapons are finished. A few triggers need to be cleaned up and a few more fixes have to be made to make the fighters/destroyers work. And the command cards have to be cleaned up..
As for EU servers, anyone who has both account feel free to upload to EU if you like...tho its really just a test version and there's really nothign to do but fly the starcruiser around shooting at target dummies.
Starbase 101 is the starbase you see right next to you at the beginning. There are no enemy attacks, and the starbase itself is supposed to be disabled, but it is not. The map wasn't finished and you can't really 'play' it. The map boundaries aren't really messed up, its limited to the starting area and will be enlarged as the game progress.. Also you can't play with anyone, only player 2 gets teh cruiser. But I've unlocked the map so you can add cruisers to other players..
The map was stopped while I made a completely new map that does use colliding projectiles. This map doesn't use colliding projectiles. I don't know, I thought it might lag a lot if it does use colliding shots, each cruiser will fire a lot, but will put them in later when the map is almost done to see whether it lags or not. The map just won't have the cruisers, there'll be lots ai-controlled destroyers, fighters, all sorts of stuffs going on. Didn't want to add to lag by putting in collision shots.
So far, since this thread was bumped, the testing map collected 5+ hours and 3 bookmarks! One reason I stopped it because I'm not sure it'll be fun playing against the AI. And I wanted to make a map where the player shoots shots and can dodge them... (my current mecha project) And I have so much planned for Starcruisers, it would take months to complete. I have so many ideas on different type of cruisers, not just the 4 that's in game right now..
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@Vexal: Go
Yeah, that's what the map evolution posts were about. No doubt DOTA took a lot of map evolution to make it what it is. I doubt a single author just came up with DOTA out of nowhere with no influence whatsoever from previous maps. Which brings back to the topic of the post and the failing of sc2 custom scene...
Anyways, there was a whole defense genre that evloved from the first SST advanced map. And from the defense genre, came the Tower Defense genre which is so popular these days.
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@Pshyched: Go
There's one critical formula to map evolution, numbers. Specifically, number of mappers. There's very few mappers for sc2, whereas war3 and sc1 had a lot of mappers. When sc2 launched, there were already TONS of maps, and a lot have original ideas. A year after sc2, we have have a dozen mappers now and like no original ideas (there are original maps - just can't play them so the authors quit. And since no one plays them, no one is elaborate off them, so the map evolution stops dead). Without original ideas, there's no map evolution. TUG maps are still the same. Mineralz was interesting but needs a lot of map evolution to make it really good. We won't see it happen as no one will take mineralz and improve upon it.
With the departure of mappers, I just don't see map evolution really happening. The project page definitely have some really great and interesting concepts. But without other mappers to elaborate off the original idea, there is no map evolution.
And what's with soulcalbiur trolling? I was talking about defense maps, the first ever played was SST advanced. Omg, what a fun defense map that was and really brought people into the custom map scenes. Like a usual troll, he twists words and make up stuffs to whine about. Take your own advice, stupid troll...
0
Never played war3 but sounds like people who are saying its about the same as war3 are lying.
Were there or were there not hundreds of different maps and more than 5 different map types to play from? In sc2 after a year, you can only play a couple different map types and only about 20 maps to choose from. War 3 CANNOT be that bad?
What happened to all the defense maps? I love defense maps and when sc2 launched, i only got to played 2 (art of defense, platform defense). You cannot play any defense maps now at all. In sc1, I must have played dozens of different defense maps within a single month! What happened to all the rpg maps? The only one I ever played was Death Haven, were there or were there not tons of different RPGs in war3? People are lying their teeth off if they are saying sc2 custom map community is as vibrant as war3 at this point.
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The way I see it, there are two types of mappers.
A) There's the amateur type mappers (me!) who'll put out a bare map that's very unpolished into battle.net just to try it out and play. Then polish it over time. But due to the devolved battle.net, these mappers can't play their creations so they abandon their maps. Occasionally tho, some of their maps do take off and reach page 1 or 2.
B) Then there's the more 'professional' mappers who spend a lot of time polishing up their maps before release. Mephs, Rodgrio, and the TMA project are the more professional types. Their maps are very polished but their maps are't really getting played. I think this is where Blizzard thinks the true problem lies. They want to release the marketplace so these mappers can 'sell' their maps and have their maps be displayed on page 1.
Because whatever you say about the popularity system, its a great success at getting people to play page 1 maps -whatever they are. And when marketplace comes out, page 1 will be filled with the premium maps made by the more 'professional' type mappers.
But its a numbers game, there are way more amateur mappers than the 'professional' types. And so the chances are, a truly original and creative map will come from the amateur sector. There's probably hundreds of amateur mappers in sc2 and only like what, 3 or 4 'professional' type mappers? But the system is designed to discourage amateur mapping. The potential just isn't there for maps to evolve due to the popularity system.
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@zZBlackhawkxZz: Go
Wow, thanks. I was wondering why the hours played was that high, hehe. As for mobile battle fortress, its the same map as this. The only difference is it didn't look like starships. Just added a tips screen to show levels.
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Yeah, lag is definitely a concern for this map. Was thinking about removing all background triggers and reduce the size of the map by 50%. That should reduce most of the lag... and yeah, the reactor menu does not work. Its just a placeholder for what's suppose to be there.
In any case, I've moved on to another new project, yeah! The new project will be called Zombie Roundabout and it's a map based off Mecha Force vs zombies. So far Mobile Battle Fortress inspired Starcruiers -> Death-car Roundabout -> Mecha Force -> and now Zombie ROundabout!
I'm just flying through these maps, hehe. :)
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A playable version has been uploaded! It is extremely satisfying to clean up the triggers and finish up this map. And adding a few finishing touches.
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@Myrkridian: Go
There's only one way to play your map, you need friends, a lot of them. No one is going to just play your map, whether you advertise it or not. You could get lucky though, sometimes a map will shoot to page 1 or 2 then you can play your map. There's no formula for having a page 1 map, it just happens sometimes.
So starting making friends online! THEN play your map.
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@zZBlackhawkxZz: Go
Okay, just removed far clip from Death-car roundabout. Try that map to see if the blackness is still there.
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@Samiur: Go
@Samiur: Go
I thought long and hard about reducing the size -> one of the main reason I went to make another map (mecha force). The mechas are a smaller size.
The thing is, starcruisers is really about the might of a star-ship that can launch huge amount of weapons at once. Its about devastating each other's cruisers and watching the ship blow apart piece by piece. Each indvidual module can be blown away and turn into a flaming piece of wreck. A tiny thing just isn't as impressive. Dunno if you can see the details, but there's actually floating bodies when a piece of the starcruiser gets blown away. :)
->some of the other smaller maps I've made: Defend Against Yourself, Fortress America, Icehot dance off. and Death-car Roundabout. Honestly, I don't think they are that much fun. :p They were made because I had some idea, but they lack that 'fun' polish. The only other big map I've made is Battle at char, I really like that map. Used to play it a lot when b.net had the cycling system.
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@Mirvra: Go
Aww.. :(
Okay, just finished the current project. I put it on up mapster, so you can play it! Its called Mecha Force -> kinda based from Special Forces.
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how do you get player name from a bank file? You pulling our legs, there had been long discussion and no one has figured out how to store player names and compare it.
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@zZBlackhawkxZz: Go
nope, right now the starcruisers are random.
since there's so much interest in this map (8 bookmarks collected!), i may go back and finish enough of the map to make it playable after I'm done with the current map. For further news, the current project is working out great! Its really lots fun to use colliding shots where the players have to manually aim their weapon. Its very satisfying to aim and actually hit a mass of zombies, blowing big chunks into the them!
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@zZBlackhawkxZz: Go
oh, what i meant was this map wasn't complete. Its not even playable, I didn't think people would even find the testing version. :) So far, everything is done just for testing the triggers and stuffs..
But if you know how to edit maps, you can probably make it playable. It 'is' kinda playable since the basic weapons are finished. A few triggers need to be cleaned up and a few more fixes have to be made to make the fighters/destroyers work. And the command cards have to be cleaned up..
As for EU servers, anyone who has both account feel free to upload to EU if you like...tho its really just a test version and there's really nothign to do but fly the starcruiser around shooting at target dummies.
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@zZBlackhawkxZz: Go
Starbase 101 is the starbase you see right next to you at the beginning. There are no enemy attacks, and the starbase itself is supposed to be disabled, but it is not. The map wasn't finished and you can't really 'play' it. The map boundaries aren't really messed up, its limited to the starting area and will be enlarged as the game progress.. Also you can't play with anyone, only player 2 gets teh cruiser. But I've unlocked the map so you can add cruisers to other players..
The map was stopped while I made a completely new map that does use colliding projectiles. This map doesn't use colliding projectiles. I don't know, I thought it might lag a lot if it does use colliding shots, each cruiser will fire a lot, but will put them in later when the map is almost done to see whether it lags or not. The map just won't have the cruisers, there'll be lots ai-controlled destroyers, fighters, all sorts of stuffs going on. Didn't want to add to lag by putting in collision shots.
So far, since this thread was bumped, the testing map collected 5+ hours and 3 bookmarks! One reason I stopped it because I'm not sure it'll be fun playing against the AI. And I wanted to make a map where the player shoots shots and can dodge them... (my current mecha project) And I have so much planned for Starcruisers, it would take months to complete. I have so many ideas on different type of cruisers, not just the 4 that's in game right now..