Maybe you could add a immovable/undroppable dummy item to the inventory at the first collumn of each row with a general weapon/armor/shield/drone/system/ability icon. This way it is easier for new players to see which item goes on which row.
It's not perfect since you get messages when trying to interact with the dummy items but I think it would make things alot clearer.
Maybe you could add a immovable/undroppable dummy item to the inventory at the first collumn of each row with a general weapon/armor/shield/drone/system/ability icon. This way it is easier for new players to see which item goes on which row.
It's not perfect since you get messages when trying to interact with the dummy items but I think it would make things alot clearer.
I wrote something like that few posts behind. Also, if you hover over INV icon its all written. Tho nobody will notice that...
There are lot more problems that newcomers will bump to. And there are some other unfriendliness sadly.
its just lacks a good manual.. or people lack brain. i mean there is standing "same items do not stack" what do people do? buy 20 repairkits... and people just ignore the helpmenu (f12) effectively.
air needs to go.. it does just not fit. or maybe you want another game than most people i dont know.
oh and just watch the middle layout + creepways.. then do it again please. they enter the side and the middle entry is what? useless!
First if all I must say that I really love Catalyst. The gameplay is simple and clean, I believe those are the main reasons why I like the map.
As a casual player I would like to give you my own feedback:
1. It is true that the new versions are relesaded too soon, maybe more time would be good for people to get used to the changes.
2. As others have already mentioned, the inventory should have name tags for the different slot categories (I don't know if this is even possible).
3. Air units really change the game. This mostly concerns movement flexibility. I like the idea of adding new strategy options to the game but this doensn't fit the gameplay we had so far.
4. I like the hill you placed in the middle.
5. Generally speaking, I find that the map isn't dynamic enough. I personnally do not appreciate Catalyst games that take longer than 20-25 minutes but often this is the case. I like the changes you made that prevent the player from having to return to his base all the time (e.g. upgrading items by left-click) but I still feel that you don't have enough mobility.
Also, more objective could be added in order to offer more winning possibilities. Often you know that you will loose when your opponent controls the map (which is normal of course, but the opponent will still need time to destroy your base), and waiting for your death is frustrating. Maybe additional victory conditions would make the game more interesing by reducing the certainty of a defeat.
6. Vespene gas should definitely (no doubt) be used to upgrade marines or other things (call in one-time units, accelerate victory conditions when the enemy is walling in, buy additional items, etc.). It should be a very rare resource in my opinion.
Suggestions so far:
- maybe air units should somehow be available to players, but not from the start and not as a standard "hero". Maybe you could temporarily command one or call in a squadron of air units that you bought with vespene. Maybe that squadron could fly towards the enemy fortress.
- concerning the additional victory conditions I talked about, let me just trow some dandom thoughts at you:
1. collecting (grab 'n run) enemy artefacts that spawn in the territories they control which will give you some advantage (adds usefullness to cloak ability).
2. random vespene container spawns throughout the map (annouced beforehand) that will make the players fight for that valuable ressource (the idea is to add dynamism to the game by more or less forcing players to gather and fight together for something crucial)
Right, I'm out of ideas for right now. Of course I agree with those who say "keep the game simple" - it is truly what makes Catalyst great.
its just lacks a good manual.. or people lack brain. i mean there is
standing "same items do not stack" what do people do? buy 20
repairkits... and people just ignore the helpmenu (f12) effectively.
air needs to go.. it does just not fit. or maybe you want another game
than most people i dont know.
oh and just watch the middle layout + creepways.. then do it again
please. they enter the side and the middle entry is what? useless!
Actually, who will press f12 in middle of game. Thats for SP games. In fast paced MP games everything must be in front of your face. Its just how it is... I learned that while developing maps on wc3.
@tigerija: Go
press it on start, read the 3 sentences there (which by the way only explain the general item system of sc2 AND wc3, which works on every map in the same way), be a good player.
right now it is like this: turn of brain, dont read tooltips, click the weapon of your choice until you run out of money, ignore the tooltip which states "left click to upgrade" and ask how to upgrade. everything IS in your face. people just are to lazy to read
-
turn on ally colours, join a game.. EVERY ai controlled unit is red. turn it of then its yellow and something else on the map. still no individual colors on minimap but on mainscreen, turn ally colours back on and enemy is red, you are blue. you messed somehting up there. just try it
turn on ally colours, join a game.. EVERY ai controlled unit is red. turn it of then its yellow and something else on the map. still no individual colors on minimap but on mainscreen, turn ally colours back on and enemy is red, you are blue. you messed somehting up there. just try it
I can't replicate this. What team were you on? I'm assuming red from your description, but that is the team I tested.
My view for aircraft is that they are good for advancing and attacking, but poor at standing toe to toe with ground based vehicles. If this isn't the case, I'll make adjustments.
well the fighter with 6 rockets is just lame. its not uncounterable.. its plain boring to play against.
the carrier is not strong enough.. there is one point you get so strong that you faster vaporize his drones than he can build them. limiting to towerspam or running away.
right now all games i play are more or less heavily focused on destroying the landing towers while almost completely ignoring the enemys. thats not how it should work. i win every game right now.. :\
I don't want this to turn into an arms race of aircraft vs ground vehicles.
I do have 2 changes, however.
Aircraft have lengthy acceleration and decel periods. What this means is that a bad player will take time to escape, lowering his mobility. A good player could get around this by continually moving his aircraft
First if all I must say that I really love Catalyst. The gameplay is simple and clean, I believe those are the main reasons why I like the map.
As a casual player I would like to give you my own feedback:
1. It is true that the new versions are relesaded too soon, maybe more time would be good for people to get used to the changes.
2. As others have already mentioned, the inventory should have name tags for the different slot categories (I don't know if this is even possible).
3. Air units really change the game. This mostly concerns movement flexibility. I like the idea of adding new strategy options to the game but this doensn't fit the gameplay we had so far.
4. I like the hill you placed in the middle.
5. Generally speaking, I find that the map isn't dynamic enough. I personnally do not appreciate Catalyst games that take longer than 20-25 minutes but often this is the case. I like the changes you made that prevent the player from having to return to his base all the time (e.g. upgrading items by left-click) but I still feel that you don't have enough mobility. Also, more objective could be added in order to offer more winning possibilities. Often you know that you will loose when your opponent controls the map (which is normal of course, but the opponent will still need time to destroy your base), and waiting for your death is frustrating. Maybe additional victory conditions would make the game more interesing by reducing the certainty of a defeat.
6. Vespene gas should definitely (no doubt) be used to upgrade marines or other things (call in one-time units, accelerate victory conditions when the enemy is walling in, buy additional items, etc.). It should be a very rare resource in my opinion.
Suggestions so far:
- maybe air units should somehow be available to players, but not from the start and not as a standard "hero". Maybe you could temporarily command one or call in a squadron of air units that you bought with vespene. Maybe that squadron could fly towards the enemy fortress.
- concerning the additional victory conditions I talked about, let me just trow some dandom thoughts at you: 1. collecting (grab 'n run) enemy artefacts that spawn in the territories they control which will give you some advantage (adds usefullness to cloak ability). 2. random vespene container spawns throughout the map (annouced beforehand) that will make the players fight for that valuable ressource (the idea is to add dynamism to the game by more or less forcing players to gather and fight together for something crucial)
Right, I'm out of ideas for right now. Of course I agree with those who say "keep the game simple" - it is truly what makes Catalyst great.
Keep up the excellent work! Thanks!
Just thought I'd say thanks for this post. I don't have anything to add, but I have read it and I do agree with most of your points. I'll see what I can do.
The Fighter has way too much HP for how powerful it is, especially since people are putting light armour plating on it as well to get the +speed, makes them extremely hard to deal with since you'll basically never be fighting them on your own terms. I think energy neuts do a little too much damage too - they do the same DPS as Cannons after all and completely nullify active armour tanks
I think that you could do with removing the tier 1 aircraft at least since it only serves to confuse people on the selection screen. This way you won't have to use the ugly ugly science vessel (yuck) for the Carrier too.
Putting the names back to Scout, Mech, Tank might be a good idea due to them being completely different to the units they're based off (Siege Tank is a weak artillery support unit, but in this works best IMO as a megathro*cough* point-blank armour tanking DPS dealer)
Oh and I know I've said it a million times by now but VESPENE. Please make it useful :)
I have a light balance and polish patch coming up. The changes are very mild. They're mostly aesthetic things like adding an assist tab to the scoreboard. I'll reduce fighter hp to 125 from 225 at level 1. Every other level will follow suite (so 250 at level 2, 500 at level 3). The carrier is hit with the same nerfbat, though I'm not convinced the carrier needs nerfing really. It's already quite weak, but I think that's mostly down to how uncontrollable drones are.
I'll see. The patch isn't ready yet anyway. I still want to fix that "Upgrading an item stops you moving" bug.
Edit: Fixed it. Well, I say fixed... what happens is that when you interact with an item, the game registers it as you issuing an order to the unit owner of the item. So when you move or click an item, it cancels the current order.
Well, I don't think this has been brought up before but I'll go ahead and throw it out there. Is this ever going to be released on other servers? This map looks like fun and I'd love to try it but I'm on US server.
Well, I don't think this has been brought up before but I'll go ahead and throw it out there. Is this ever going to be released on other servers? This map looks like fun and I'd love to try it but I'm on US server.
I'll be releasing it on US when I find someone I'd trust. I'd be most interested in a "map swap" or something, where I'd host their map and vice versa. I'd be looking for someone who has a quality map.
-when you buy a new vehicel and someone is near.. i dont know. that was the situation, the result was.. i got all the items from my ally on buying a lvl3 dustwing, while his lvl3 dustwing was near
this shield to energy converter.. it is bad. it drains shields and drains shields and drains shields.. no use with all the other items being way better
well.. its designed poorly then. it does not work that way. you will alyays have zero shield and every 3 seconds it converts the energie. you can no have an energypolster with it.
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@Eiviyn: Go
Maybe you could add a immovable/undroppable dummy item to the inventory at the first collumn of each row with a general weapon/armor/shield/drone/system/ability icon. This way it is easier for new players to see which item goes on which row.
It's not perfect since you get messages when trying to interact with the dummy items but I think it would make things alot clearer.
I wrote something like that few posts behind. Also, if you hover over INV icon its all written. Tho nobody will notice that...
There are lot more problems that newcomers will bump to. And there are some other unfriendliness sadly.
its just lacks a good manual.. or people lack brain. i mean there is standing "same items do not stack" what do people do? buy 20 repairkits... and people just ignore the helpmenu (f12) effectively.
air needs to go.. it does just not fit. or maybe you want another game than most people i dont know.
oh and just watch the middle layout + creepways.. then do it again please. they enter the side and the middle entry is what? useless!
Hello,
First if all I must say that I really love Catalyst. The gameplay is simple and clean, I believe those are the main reasons why I like the map.
As a casual player I would like to give you my own feedback:
1. It is true that the new versions are relesaded too soon, maybe more time would be good for people to get used to the changes.
2. As others have already mentioned, the inventory should have name tags for the different slot categories (I don't know if this is even possible).
3. Air units really change the game. This mostly concerns movement flexibility. I like the idea of adding new strategy options to the game but this doensn't fit the gameplay we had so far.
4. I like the hill you placed in the middle.
5. Generally speaking, I find that the map isn't dynamic enough. I personnally do not appreciate Catalyst games that take longer than 20-25 minutes but often this is the case. I like the changes you made that prevent the player from having to return to his base all the time (e.g. upgrading items by left-click) but I still feel that you don't have enough mobility. Also, more objective could be added in order to offer more winning possibilities. Often you know that you will loose when your opponent controls the map (which is normal of course, but the opponent will still need time to destroy your base), and waiting for your death is frustrating. Maybe additional victory conditions would make the game more interesing by reducing the certainty of a defeat.
6. Vespene gas should definitely (no doubt) be used to upgrade marines or other things (call in one-time units, accelerate victory conditions when the enemy is walling in, buy additional items, etc.). It should be a very rare resource in my opinion.
Suggestions so far:
- maybe air units should somehow be available to players, but not from the start and not as a standard "hero". Maybe you could temporarily command one or call in a squadron of air units that you bought with vespene. Maybe that squadron could fly towards the enemy fortress.
- concerning the additional victory conditions I talked about, let me just trow some dandom thoughts at you: 1. collecting (grab 'n run) enemy artefacts that spawn in the territories they control which will give you some advantage (adds usefullness to cloak ability). 2. random vespene container spawns throughout the map (annouced beforehand) that will make the players fight for that valuable ressource (the idea is to add dynamism to the game by more or less forcing players to gather and fight together for something crucial)
Right, I'm out of ideas for right now. Of course I agree with those who say "keep the game simple" - it is truly what makes Catalyst great.
Keep up the excellent work! Thanks!
Actually, who will press f12 in middle of game. Thats for SP games. In fast paced MP games everything must be in front of your face. Its just how it is... I learned that while developing maps on wc3.
ally colours are still messed up
scout class no use in the current state
What do you mean?
@tigerija: Go press it on start, read the 3 sentences there (which by the way only explain the general item system of sc2 AND wc3, which works on every map in the same way), be a good player. right now it is like this: turn of brain, dont read tooltips, click the weapon of your choice until you run out of money, ignore the tooltip which states "left click to upgrade" and ask how to upgrade. everything IS in your face. people just are to lazy to read
-turn on ally colours, join a game.. EVERY ai controlled unit is red. turn it of then its yellow and something else on the map. still no individual colors on minimap but on mainscreen, turn ally colours back on and enemy is red, you are blue. you messed somehting up there. just try it
I can't replicate this. What team were you on? I'm assuming red from your description, but that is the team I tested.
My view for aircraft is that they are good for advancing and attacking, but poor at standing toe to toe with ground based vehicles. If this isn't the case, I'll make adjustments.
blue. i can make screenshots the next time
well the fighter with 6 rockets is just lame. its not uncounterable.. its plain boring to play against.
the carrier is not strong enough.. there is one point you get so strong that you faster vaporize his drones than he can build them. limiting to towerspam or running away.
right now all games i play are more or less heavily focused on destroying the landing towers while almost completely ignoring the enemys. thats not how it should work. i win every game right now.. :\
I don't want this to turn into an arms race of aircraft vs ground vehicles.
I do have 2 changes, however.
Aircraft have lengthy acceleration and decel periods. What this means is that a bad player will take time to escape, lowering his mobility. A good player could get around this by continually moving his aircraft
Just thought I'd say thanks for this post. I don't have anything to add, but I have read it and I do agree with most of your points. I'll see what I can do.
The Fighter has way too much HP for how powerful it is, especially since people are putting light armour plating on it as well to get the +speed, makes them extremely hard to deal with since you'll basically never be fighting them on your own terms. I think energy neuts do a little too much damage too - they do the same DPS as Cannons after all and completely nullify active armour tanks
I think that you could do with removing the tier 1 aircraft at least since it only serves to confuse people on the selection screen. This way you won't have to use the ugly ugly science vessel (yuck) for the Carrier too.
Putting the names back to Scout, Mech, Tank might be a good idea due to them being completely different to the units they're based off (Siege Tank is a weak artillery support unit, but in this works best IMO as a megathro*cough* point-blank armour tanking DPS dealer)
Oh and I know I've said it a million times by now but VESPENE. Please make it useful :)
I have a light balance and polish patch coming up. The changes are very mild. They're mostly aesthetic things like adding an assist tab to the scoreboard. I'll reduce fighter hp to 125 from 225 at level 1. Every other level will follow suite (so 250 at level 2, 500 at level 3). The carrier is hit with the same nerfbat, though I'm not convinced the carrier needs nerfing really. It's already quite weak, but I think that's mostly down to how uncontrollable drones are.
I'll see. The patch isn't ready yet anyway. I still want to fix that "Upgrading an item stops you moving" bug.
Edit: Fixed it. Well, I say fixed... what happens is that when you interact with an item, the game registers it as you issuing an order to the unit owner of the item. So when you move or click an item, it cancels the current order.
Well, I don't think this has been brought up before but I'll go ahead and throw it out there. Is this ever going to be released on other servers? This map looks like fun and I'd love to try it but I'm on US server.
I'll be releasing it on US when I find someone I'd trust. I'd be most interested in a "map swap" or something, where I'd host their map and vice versa. I'd be looking for someone who has a quality map.
-when you buy a new vehicel and someone is near.. i dont know. that was the situation, the result was.. i got all the items from my ally on buying a lvl3 dustwing, while his lvl3 dustwing was near
this shield to energy converter.. it is bad. it drains shields and drains shields and drains shields.. no use with all the other items being way better
It was designed for use for people who want to ignore shields entirely and just focus on armour tanking.
well.. its designed poorly then. it does not work that way. you will alyays have zero shield and every 3 seconds it converts the energie. you can no have an energypolster with it.