The best way to learn is, in my opinion, opening others' maps. The idea is to make a small map with all the basic stuff, like databanks, tables, a small UI, waves... all that stuff noobs are always asking for, things that, once you see how they work, are easy as hell.
I started to plan some of the content, and realized it's too much for a single person, so I think we could make this some sort of "collaborative" effort. I don't have too much time to be very active on the site, so pardon me if there's something like this already going around :P.
The process is easy: you write some small code for something simple, or simply copy what you already have around. They should be small operations. After that, we would document everything, saying why we've this and that, and what is vital and optional. If we have more than one version of the same operations, we'd decide which one is more efficient or easier to understand.
Once we start to have content, we would put everything inside a map, and divide it by zones with some sort of switch to activate each series of operations (a small TD sample, a small AoS sample, a camera system sample, a tables sample, an UI sample...). Everything as simple as possible, so whoever is reading it understands how it works easily.
We should aim at GUI, although having both GUI and Galaxy would be great, so they see the relationship between both codes.
Well, what do you think about this idea? For anyone with basic knowledge, contributing is easy as hell, and this could be the best tutorial ever :).
At first it seemed like a good idea, but as I thought more about it....I dont know..
The needs are usually very specific towards the editor, and I think we have enough existing resources on this site that covers the basics in most fields(and then some more). So Im not sure how effective this would be.
Maybe someone will disagree with me though.
Yeah, I had my doubts at the beginning, too, but then I realize that, sometimes, people doesn't know what they want, and they get ideas for their systems by seeing others. Maybe someone is trying to make some kill-counter system, and didn't realize he could use a series of tables.
The point of this is that you execute the map and you see everything in action. No videos, no pictures, you have it in front of you, and you can touch the code and do what you want, it's in your hand for you to toy with it. Maybe you'll discover stuff you didn't imagine before, utilities you thought didn't exist, new ways of doing something... that's it.
Pretty much all the knowledge of SC2Mapster could go there, to a single file, a big tutorial about the editor that it's inside the editor itself.
This is actually not a bad idea. I do agree with you, opening others maps help people learn quite a bit.
its how i learned everything about everything, sc1 editor, c + + , actionscript, c#, java list goes on and on. Only thing I didnt learn this way was sc2...as there were no maps at the time =P but yes, imo this is one of the best ways to learn that there ever was.
One of the problems of SC2, imo, is that it's harder to "test" stuff. With W3, I made blocks and blocks of functions and made them run to see what they did. With the "have to upload to the service" shit and the huge amount of everything, and the new wtf-ish data editor, that's hard and complicated as hell. It's easy to see someone being discouraged after the 3rd try.
Also, the advantage of the W3 editor is that you could easily compare units to see what made them unique. With all the actors paraphernalia, it's just impossible, unless you manage to have 6 data editor windows opened at the same time, which is not possible.
And yes, I learned programming by opening others' maps, mostly the Blizzard official ones, like War Chasers. I learned how to make multitables by modifying the one from War Chasers until I learned how it worked, back at an age where I didn't know wtf a loop was. I lol'd hard when I started to study programming and saw that was what I had learned by myself by toying with the editor xDDD.
So, well, if you want to participate in this project, I'll write small request for pretty simple stuff, that you're pretty much able to write in 5-10 minutes. GUI is preferred, for this is aimed to newbies, but parallel galaxy code is welcomed (so the newbies can understand galaxy by comparing GUI and it). Once people answers to a request, we comment which is the best option, and choose it, or improve it. Personally, I'm a "do everything with a long function" guy, instead of placing several functions, so what it's easy for me may not be enough "easy to understand" by newcomers.
Let's start with these 4, feel free to add any new one you think would be nice.
Small table for kills, should have player name and kills, would be nice if it has "player leaves" and "player slot is empty" utilities.
Basic wave movement through regions (unit enters region A, issue order entering unit move to region B).
String sensitive chat commands, like "-ally NAME" (I have a nice anecdote with this, back at W3, I didn't know what strings were, so I made 264 different functions with "player red says "-ally blue"", "player red says "-ally green"" ... "player dark green says "-enemy brown"", you get the idea, when I was about to finish it, I started toying with strings and voilá, I was able to put all those functions into just 2, and even make it work with "-ally NAME"... the more you know :P)
Some spawn system would be nice, too. Right now I'm not sure how to approach it. It should have the possibility of changing the number and type of spawned units, and a customizable "wait", too, so the waves are customizable in-game. Well, maybe we should do a "predefined waves" system before this.
Those are my trigger ideas for now, I remember people always asked this back at W3, when I had a mapmaking clan. As for the others things, well, feel free to post and/or suggest anything.
I have some systems done for the first 2, and some terrain ideas, too.
Alot of the tutorials have great example maps. Personally i like the very focused, minimal tutorials because it's very easy to see what fields were changed. I can read Programmer's or Prozaic's tutorials and not learn a single thing because they seemingly speak a completely different language than me. It's not until I open up the maps and take a look under the hood that I think "Oh, that was simple".
...unless you manage to have 6 data editor windows opened at the same time, which is not possible.
Actually you can open 6 actors at once to compare individual fields easily. They are shown in one giant tab this way. You can even copy&paste whole blocks of fields at once this way, for example to uniform certain aspects of different units easily.This works with all data objects.
@Lonami: Gothere are also some kool tutorials on youtube that you can get ideas from as well. For example, i learned EVERYTHING from the video's that onetwoSC made. I tell everyone about his video's becuase he save me from not being a map maker on sc2. Some tutorials are hard to understand, but OneTwoSC's are great. I learned from the video's "advanced tower defence part 1-10" You could check it out for ideas. I'm not an expert really, so i've been looking around mapster to get ideas and stuff. Just thought i could give you some tutorial examples. thanks!
oh yes! This is exactly what im looking for map examples of easy triggers.
Two people have already helped me, they provided me with a quick fast map examples of 2 kinds of triggering: character selection dialog system and a loop spawning system. With these example maps, I can now get a good grasp of how those simple triggers work. I can now finally create my own character/menu system.
Feel free to post useful codes (if they're not yours, ask for permission) no matter if they answer requests or not. Also, feel free to write new requests.
Does anyone think it might help loosen the gradient on the learning curve as well if we integrated a Galaxy Scripting component into this?
In a way this allow people who wish to learn how to use the galaxy editor to learn how to code the same thing in two different ways.
In other words, what I'm suggesting is that for every GUI made trigger example in Lonami's map, we have a galaxy equivalent which does exactly the same thing. What do you all think? Would this be a good idea?
of course it will. because if peaple know a bit of gui and they want to learn galaxy they can take both maps and compare, which will increase the speed of learning galaxy
In other words, what I'm suggesting is that for every GUI made trigger example in Lonami's map, we have a galaxy equivalent which does exactly the same thing. What do you all think? Would this be a good idea?
Yeah, I suggested it above, although I don't think it's a good idea to post Galaxy alone. This is for newbs, and newbs don't know about coding. If we have GUI, you're welcomed to post the same Galaxy script. This could help people know how to translate to it properly, by comparing in their own.
I think this idea was dead, it's good to see interest grow again :P.
A few simple examples of Galaxy could be included, with their GUI equivalents.
Once I finally get my lazy ass moving and finish work on my current project I'll release it as open source material. Then we'll have a fully fledged galaxy-only map for people to learn from. But that won't include the basics, of course.
ive been playing with the data editor ( with no experiance ) for the last 3 months , ive learn how to use the DATA part VERY well , but i have NO idea how trigger work
im making a map i did all the data and a helper did all the triggers , i would of loved to know how to do it my self , but i have zero understanding of triggers .
if some one made a map ( evan if its NONE FONCTIONAL ) but just have a trigger template for , waves , banks , UI , builder respawn , start triggers ( when game starts camera mouve to player and spawn the builder ) w/e basic triggers u can think of all sumed in in ONE MAP! that way we can use it for reference.
RIght now, two people have given me two separate maps with triggers for me to learn. Now, I have a good sense in creating different game systems in a map.
The best way to learn is, in my opinion, opening others' maps. The idea is to make a small map with all the basic stuff, like databanks, tables, a small UI, waves... all that stuff noobs are always asking for, things that, once you see how they work, are easy as hell.
I started to plan some of the content, and realized it's too much for a single person, so I think we could make this some sort of "collaborative" effort. I don't have too much time to be very active on the site, so pardon me if there's something like this already going around :P.
The process is easy: you write some small code for something simple, or simply copy what you already have around. They should be small operations. After that, we would document everything, saying why we've this and that, and what is vital and optional. If we have more than one version of the same operations, we'd decide which one is more efficient or easier to understand.
Once we start to have content, we would put everything inside a map, and divide it by zones with some sort of switch to activate each series of operations (a small TD sample, a small AoS sample, a camera system sample, a tables sample, an UI sample...). Everything as simple as possible, so whoever is reading it understands how it works easily.
We should aim at GUI, although having both GUI and Galaxy would be great, so they see the relationship between both codes.
Well, what do you think about this idea? For anyone with basic knowledge, contributing is easy as hell, and this could be the best tutorial ever :).
@Lonami: Go
At first it seemed like a good idea, but as I thought more about it....I dont know..
The needs are usually very specific towards the editor, and I think we have enough existing resources on this site that covers the basics in most fields(and then some more). So Im not sure how effective this would be.
Maybe someone will disagree with me though.
Yeah, I had my doubts at the beginning, too, but then I realize that, sometimes, people doesn't know what they want, and they get ideas for their systems by seeing others. Maybe someone is trying to make some kill-counter system, and didn't realize he could use a series of tables.
The point of this is that you execute the map and you see everything in action. No videos, no pictures, you have it in front of you, and you can touch the code and do what you want, it's in your hand for you to toy with it. Maybe you'll discover stuff you didn't imagine before, utilities you thought didn't exist, new ways of doing something... that's it.
Pretty much all the knowledge of SC2Mapster could go there, to a single file, a big tutorial about the editor that it's inside the editor itself.
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ModeratorsThis is actually not a bad idea. I do agree with you, opening others maps help people learn quite a bit.
I learned how to do a leader-board from opening a map. So, yes it does help a lot.
its how i learned everything about everything, sc1 editor, c + + , actionscript, c#, java list goes on and on. Only thing I didnt learn this way was sc2...as there were no maps at the time =P but yes, imo this is one of the best ways to learn that there ever was.
One of the problems of SC2, imo, is that it's harder to "test" stuff. With W3, I made blocks and blocks of functions and made them run to see what they did. With the "have to upload to the service" shit and the huge amount of everything, and the new wtf-ish data editor, that's hard and complicated as hell. It's easy to see someone being discouraged after the 3rd try.
Also, the advantage of the W3 editor is that you could easily compare units to see what made them unique. With all the actors paraphernalia, it's just impossible, unless you manage to have 6 data editor windows opened at the same time, which is not possible.
And yes, I learned programming by opening others' maps, mostly the Blizzard official ones, like War Chasers. I learned how to make multitables by modifying the one from War Chasers until I learned how it worked, back at an age where I didn't know wtf a loop was. I lol'd hard when I started to study programming and saw that was what I had learned by myself by toying with the editor xDDD.
So, well, if you want to participate in this project, I'll write small request for pretty simple stuff, that you're pretty much able to write in 5-10 minutes. GUI is preferred, for this is aimed to newbies, but parallel galaxy code is welcomed (so the newbies can understand galaxy by comparing GUI and it). Once people answers to a request, we comment which is the best option, and choose it, or improve it. Personally, I'm a "do everything with a long function" guy, instead of placing several functions, so what it's easy for me may not be enough "easy to understand" by newcomers.
Let's start with these 4, feel free to add any new one you think would be nice.
Those are my trigger ideas for now, I remember people always asked this back at W3, when I had a mapmaking clan. As for the others things, well, feel free to post and/or suggest anything.
I have some systems done for the first 2, and some terrain ideas, too.
Alot of the tutorials have great example maps. Personally i like the very focused, minimal tutorials because it's very easy to see what fields were changed. I can read Programmer's or Prozaic's tutorials and not learn a single thing because they seemingly speak a completely different language than me. It's not until I open up the maps and take a look under the hood that I think "Oh, that was simple".
Actually you can open 6 actors at once to compare individual fields easily. They are shown in one giant tab this way. You can even copy&paste whole blocks of fields at once this way, for example to uniform certain aspects of different units easily.This works with all data objects.
@Lonami: Gothere are also some kool tutorials on youtube that you can get ideas from as well. For example, i learned EVERYTHING from the video's that onetwoSC made. I tell everyone about his video's becuase he save me from not being a map maker on sc2. Some tutorials are hard to understand, but OneTwoSC's are great. I learned from the video's "advanced tower defence part 1-10" You could check it out for ideas. I'm not an expert really, so i've been looking around mapster to get ideas and stuff. Just thought i could give you some tutorial examples. thanks!
Start write more comment...
Hate people do important function without single word about it.
Bad manner...
oh yes! This is exactly what im looking for map examples of easy triggers. Two people have already helped me, they provided me with a quick fast map examples of 2 kinds of triggering: character selection dialog system and a loop spawning system. With these example maps, I can now get a good grasp of how those simple triggers work. I can now finally create my own character/menu system.
Feel free to post useful codes (if they're not yours, ask for permission) no matter if they answer requests or not. Also, feel free to write new requests.
I'll try to post some code later ;).
Does anyone think it might help loosen the gradient on the learning curve as well if we integrated a Galaxy Scripting component into this?
In a way this allow people who wish to learn how to use the galaxy editor to learn how to code the same thing in two different ways.
In other words, what I'm suggesting is that for every GUI made trigger example in Lonami's map, we have a galaxy equivalent which does exactly the same thing. What do you all think? Would this be a good idea?
of course it will. because if peaple know a bit of gui and they want to learn galaxy they can take both maps and compare, which will increase the speed of learning galaxy
Yeah, I suggested it above, although I don't think it's a good idea to post Galaxy alone. This is for newbs, and newbs don't know about coding. If we have GUI, you're welcomed to post the same Galaxy script. This could help people know how to translate to it properly, by comparing in their own.
I think this idea was dead, it's good to see interest grow again :P.
A few simple examples of Galaxy could be included, with their GUI equivalents.
Once I finally get my lazy ass moving and finish work on my current project I'll release it as open source material. Then we'll have a fully fledged galaxy-only map for people to learn from. But that won't include the basics, of course.
ID LOVE THIS!!!
ive been playing with the data editor ( with no experiance ) for the last 3 months , ive learn how to use the DATA part VERY well , but i have NO idea how trigger work
im making a map i did all the data and a helper did all the triggers , i would of loved to know how to do it my self , but i have zero understanding of triggers .
if some one made a map ( evan if its NONE FONCTIONAL ) but just have a trigger template for , waves , banks , UI , builder respawn , start triggers ( when game starts camera mouve to player and spawn the builder ) w/e basic triggers u can think of all sumed in in ONE MAP! that way we can use it for reference.
i think this is a GREAT idea + 1 for me , i
I am eagerly waiting to see a map like this.
RIght now, two people have given me two separate maps with triggers for me to learn. Now, I have a good sense in creating different game systems in a map.
I should make one on caves. That might give me less of an headache in the terrain area.