Hello everyone. I've been lurking around forums, getting info on how to import/create/edit all the wonderful assets in the editor, and have finally, after hours of effort, trial and error, recreated the Tempest (and Shuriken) as seen in earlier builds of Starcraft 2. I for one, was seriously disappointed with the exclusion of the Tempest, and saw this interesting unit as a superb and immensely tactical addition to the Protoss fleet. I thus far have not seen anyone in this forum do such a re-creation yet, so I offer you my efforts:
Fully-functioning Tempests
Shurikens deployed, Ground Shields activated. These shields are near-impenetrable to ground units, inflicting a paltry 1 point of damage per attack.
Air units however, tear these guys apart. The ground shields only activate while the Tempest still has shield power.
The result of 2 Tempests vs. 30 Marines. 1 Tempest died in the encounter, while the other emerged unscathed.
A side-by-side comparison of the Protoss Capital ships. Aside from the darker coloration and slightly smaller, different model, I gave the Tempest a new portrait and Dark Templar Voice (being a Dark Templar Capital ship).
Here's what I did to the stats to separate the Tempest from Carriers, in keeping with what little information Blizzard released about the Tempest, that being of weaker, cheaper units than the Carrier:
TEMPEST / CARRIER
Life - 200 / 300
Shields - 100 / 150
Minerals - 275 / 350
Gas - 200 / 250
Hangar Capacity - 10 / 8
Hangar build spd - 6.0 / 8.0
Can attack - Ground / Ground and Air
SHURIKEN / INTERCEPTOR
Life - 30 / 40
Shields - 30 / 40
Dmg - 3 / 5
Dmg spd - 1.2 / 2.0
After some testing, I have pleasantly discovered that the Tempest makes for the ultimate counter for ground units, while still being vulnerable enough to air units to save from being overpowered. I included them in my unit mod and Custom Maps, and have been having a jolly old time with them so far. I also included them in the Graviton Catapult upgrade, so at 10 Shurikens a pop, they can be a very effective support craft behind the front lines. Why Blizzard didn't think to include Tempests as well as Carriers, as both are unique enough to make each valuable in it's own scenario, is beyond me. Perhaps Tempests will make a return in the final chapter of the trilogy? Who knows.
Looks superb! The Ground Shield ability looks to be a little imba. 30 Marines should at least kill 2 Tempest for what that is worth. The Tempest was indeed a unique unit, though I guess people didn't want something as classic and old-fashioned like the Carrier to die out. I definitely think they will have something similar or equal to the Tempest in Legacy of the Void. :3
I did a Tempest-type unit myself, so it's great we have some similar ideals. But, I'm curious, is that a reskin you made yourself or a tint color? If so, I'm envious, I don't even know how to edit textures in SCII yet... :/, If not, please tell me what you used to get that color. ^^
The Ground Shield ability looks to be a little imba. 30 Marines should at least kill 2 Tempest for what that is worth.
Yeah, I was considering what would make the Tempest worth the build, and it actually took quite a lot of testing, but for my Tech tree, by the time you get your first Tempest (assuming you're shooting for a Tempest), your enemy likely already has loads of air units, which clean up Tempests. Not only that, but the Ground Shields only activate while Tempests still have regular shield power. At a measly 100 shield, they quickly become vulnerable to ground units as well once air units have depleted it. The other balancing aspect is that even though Shurikens do more damage at a quicker rate, they do not benefit from the Ground Shield ability, and are also just low-flying melee units which exist on the ground plane, making them vulnerable to all types of ground attacks (sans missile turrets). The lower Shuriken HP also adds to their vulnerability. The relative ease of killing Shuriken often reduces the Tempest to nothing more than an impenetrable, yet harmless sentinel. Essentially the best way to counter Tempests is to target the Shuriken rather than the Tempest itself (in contrast to how you take down a Carrier). After much testing, I actually had to reduce Shuriken building time to make them effective (they were dying out too quickly, and could not be replaced fast enough). The Graviton Catapult upgrade also helps the Tempest greatly. ;-)
As for cost/value, when I pitted two Carriers against the same amount of marines, they hardly managed to kill 2 marines before they were gone.
30 Marines = 1500 Minerals
2 Carriers = 700 Minerals/500 Gas, + 200 Minerals for full hangars of Interceptors (25x8), effectively costing 1400 units of resources (partially in gas, being obviously more valuable than Minerals)
So, for 30 marines to take out 2 Carriers and losing a mere 2 casualties, we might argue that either Carriers are underpowered or Marines are overpowered.
The tables turned however, when I did the 2 Tempest test.
2 Tempests = 550 Minerals, 400 Gas + 300 Minerals for full hangars of Shuriken (25x12), equalling 1250 units of resources. Also, if you notice by the pictures, I had to build at least 7 replacement Shuriken during the battle, upping the cost to 1425 units of resources.
So at 1500 vs. 1425 resources, 1 Tempest dead, it's not that big of a cost advantage.
That being the case, I see Tempests as a perfect answer to Marines, and a cost-effective one at that. It still needs more testing though, so if it turns out that Tempests are too cheap (I mean cost-wise), I might raise the price a little, but their low stats and helpless stance vs. air units makes me reluctant to do so.
I did a Tempest-type unit myself, so it's great we have some similar ideals. But, I'm curious, is that a reskin you made yourself or a tint color? If so, I'm envious, I don't even know how to edit textures in SCII yet... :/, If not, please tell me what you used to get that color. ^^
Actually, it's just a color tint, and it's easy to do. :)
Simply add an event in the actor like:
UnitBirth.Tempest
SetTintColor #, #, #
The only thing though is, when you set a tint color on a unit (I also did this with my Dark Archon re-creation), some spells (like the Mothership's Vortex and Mass Recall are the ones that I discovered) remove the tint of affected units.
To counter this, this is what I used:
Behavior.VortexBehavior.On
SetTintColor #,#,# (Same tint as above)
Behavior.Recalled.Off
SetTintColor #,#,#
There might be other spells that cause this, but those are the only two I've run into so far.
That is true. Although, there are people out there that expect stuff like Stalkers for example to at least kill it, and not everyone likes to make air. It would take 100 hits from Stalkers to get rid of its shields, that takes a lot of time to kill a single Tempest unit especially since Stalkers attack kind of slow, I'm not sure if you tested this, but that is pretty crazy. Though, yes I can see what you were trying to do here since it has its own advantages and disadvantages, how about making shields 150, making Shurikens cost 15 min (?) and testing for 3 damage per hit? Then again I can't be too sure how the actual Tempest you made may look since I don't have the map itself or video evidence.
Carriers are slightly underpowered just like in SCI, and Marines are meant to shred Carriers apart in numbers strangely enough. So, I guess the way you made your Tempest is pretty all right in the end though.
By the way, I remember one source saying that Tempests had something like the Battlecruiser's Yamato Cannon, just thought you should know that, but I don't think its anything essential, just wanted to throw that out though.
Also, when I said how you got that color, I was wondering what RGB numerical values you used and the HDR value. Oh, and thanks for that Vortex and Recall thing I didn't know that. ;]
I think they meant a purifier mothership like in Haven's whatever mission when you help the good doctor one last time. I am also very interested in the way you got the shields on the tempest to look like that...
I think they meant a purifier mothership like in Haven's whatever mission when you help the good doctor one last time. I am also very interested in the way you got the shields on the tempest to look like that...
That's just the Immortal's shields...Shield effect only animates wherever the unit is hit; In this case, the underbelly of the ship.
That's just the Immortal's shields...Shield effect only animates wherever the unit is hit; In this case, the underbelly of the ship.
Actually, the Tempest Shield Model is still in the editor (not sure what it's called exactly), just open the previewer and go through the protoss effects folder, this isnt the Immo shield ;)
Hello everyone. I've been lurking around forums, getting info on how to import/create/edit all the wonderful assets in the editor, and have finally, after hours of effort, trial and error, recreated the Tempest (and Shuriken) as seen in earlier builds of Starcraft 2. I for one, was seriously disappointed with the exclusion of the Tempest, and saw this interesting unit as a superb and immensely tactical addition to the Protoss fleet. I thus far have not seen anyone in this forum do such a re-creation yet, so I offer you my efforts:
Here's what I did to the stats to separate the Tempest from Carriers, in keeping with what little information Blizzard released about the Tempest, that being of weaker, cheaper units than the Carrier:
TEMPEST / CARRIER
SHURIKEN / INTERCEPTOR
After some testing, I have pleasantly discovered that the Tempest makes for the ultimate counter for ground units, while still being vulnerable enough to air units to save from being overpowered. I included them in my unit mod and Custom Maps, and have been having a jolly old time with them so far. I also included them in the Graviton Catapult upgrade, so at 10 Shurikens a pop, they can be a very effective support craft behind the front lines. Why Blizzard didn't think to include Tempests as well as Carriers, as both are unique enough to make each valuable in it's own scenario, is beyond me. Perhaps Tempests will make a return in the final chapter of the trilogy? Who knows.
What do you guys think?
Looks superb! The Ground Shield ability looks to be a little imba. 30 Marines should at least kill 2 Tempest for what that is worth. The Tempest was indeed a unique unit, though I guess people didn't want something as classic and old-fashioned like the Carrier to die out. I definitely think they will have something similar or equal to the Tempest in Legacy of the Void. :3
I did a Tempest-type unit myself, so it's great we have some similar ideals. But, I'm curious, is that a reskin you made yourself or a tint color? If so, I'm envious, I don't even know how to edit textures in SCII yet... :/, If not, please tell me what you used to get that color. ^^
Looks awesome :) Nice to see that someone remade this unit, i hope it comes in one of the expansions :)
Yeah, I was considering what would make the Tempest worth the build, and it actually took quite a lot of testing, but for my Tech tree, by the time you get your first Tempest (assuming you're shooting for a Tempest), your enemy likely already has loads of air units, which clean up Tempests. Not only that, but the Ground Shields only activate while Tempests still have regular shield power. At a measly 100 shield, they quickly become vulnerable to ground units as well once air units have depleted it. The other balancing aspect is that even though Shurikens do more damage at a quicker rate, they do not benefit from the Ground Shield ability, and are also just low-flying melee units which exist on the ground plane, making them vulnerable to all types of ground attacks (sans missile turrets). The lower Shuriken HP also adds to their vulnerability. The relative ease of killing Shuriken often reduces the Tempest to nothing more than an impenetrable, yet harmless sentinel. Essentially the best way to counter Tempests is to target the Shuriken rather than the Tempest itself (in contrast to how you take down a Carrier). After much testing, I actually had to reduce Shuriken building time to make them effective (they were dying out too quickly, and could not be replaced fast enough). The Graviton Catapult upgrade also helps the Tempest greatly. ;-)
As for cost/value, when I pitted two Carriers against the same amount of marines, they hardly managed to kill 2 marines before they were gone.
30 Marines = 1500 Minerals
2 Carriers = 700 Minerals/500 Gas, + 200 Minerals for full hangars of Interceptors (25x8), effectively costing 1400 units of resources (partially in gas, being obviously more valuable than Minerals)
So, for 30 marines to take out 2 Carriers and losing a mere 2 casualties, we might argue that either Carriers are underpowered or Marines are overpowered. The tables turned however, when I did the 2 Tempest test.
2 Tempests = 550 Minerals, 400 Gas + 300 Minerals for full hangars of Shuriken (25x12), equalling 1250 units of resources. Also, if you notice by the pictures, I had to build at least 7 replacement Shuriken during the battle, upping the cost to 1425 units of resources.
So at 1500 vs. 1425 resources, 1 Tempest dead, it's not that big of a cost advantage.
That being the case, I see Tempests as a perfect answer to Marines, and a cost-effective one at that. It still needs more testing though, so if it turns out that Tempests are too cheap (I mean cost-wise), I might raise the price a little, but their low stats and helpless stance vs. air units makes me reluctant to do so.
Actually, it's just a color tint, and it's easy to do. :) Simply add an event in the actor like:
UnitBirth.Tempest SetTintColor
#,#,#The only thing though is, when you set a tint color on a unit (I also did this with my Dark Archon re-creation), some spells (like the Mothership's Vortex and Mass Recall are the ones that I discovered) remove the tint of affected units. To counter this, this is what I used:
Behavior.VortexBehavior.On SetTintColor
#,#,# (Same tint as above)Behavior.Recalled.Off SetTintColor
#,#,#There might be other spells that cause this, but those are the only two I've run into so far.
@Moonshine777: Go
That is true. Although, there are people out there that expect stuff like Stalkers for example to at least kill it, and not everyone likes to make air. It would take 100 hits from Stalkers to get rid of its shields, that takes a lot of time to kill a single Tempest unit especially since Stalkers attack kind of slow, I'm not sure if you tested this, but that is pretty crazy. Though, yes I can see what you were trying to do here since it has its own advantages and disadvantages, how about making shields 150, making Shurikens cost 15 min (?) and testing for 3 damage per hit? Then again I can't be too sure how the actual Tempest you made may look since I don't have the map itself or video evidence.
Carriers are slightly underpowered just like in SCI, and Marines are meant to shred Carriers apart in numbers strangely enough. So, I guess the way you made your Tempest is pretty all right in the end though.
By the way, I remember one source saying that Tempests had something like the Battlecruiser's Yamato Cannon, just thought you should know that, but I don't think its anything essential, just wanted to throw that out though.
Also, when I said how you got that color, I was wondering what RGB numerical values you used and the HDR value. Oh, and thanks for that Vortex and Recall thing I didn't know that. ;]
About Tempest...
Could you past or public your tempest to prove in the my starcraft 2 map editor.?
I have a doubt , but the tempest in the promotion of sc2 has the same size as protoss carrier.
Can you put a link to download the tempest?
Please
I think the protoss carrier (main ship) should have a similar destructive beam like the battlecrusier only and not just rely on interceptors ?
In the introduction movie which talks about the arrival of the protoss the carriers have the ability to shoot a destructive beam…
@FrancoT: Go
I think they meant a purifier mothership like in Haven's whatever mission when you help the good doctor one last time. I am also very interested in the way you got the shields on the tempest to look like that...
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Curse PremiumThat's just the Immortal's shields...Shield effect only animates wherever the unit is hit; In this case, the underbelly of the ship.
Looks awesome, great job ;D.
Actually, the Tempest Shield Model is still in the editor (not sure what it's called exactly), just open the previewer and go through the protoss effects folder, this isnt the Immo shield ;)
Could you publish the map with the Tempest already ready?