The Ground Shield ability looks to be a little imba. 30 Marines should at least kill 2 Tempest for what that is worth.
Yeah, I was considering what would make the Tempest worth the build, and it actually took quite a lot of testing, but for my Tech tree, by the time you get your first Tempest (assuming you're shooting for a Tempest), your enemy likely already has loads of air units, which clean up Tempests. Not only that, but the Ground Shields only activate while Tempests still have regular shield power. At a measly 100 shield, they quickly become vulnerable to ground units as well once air units have depleted it. The other balancing aspect is that even though Shurikens do more damage at a quicker rate, they do not benefit from the Ground Shield ability, and are also just low-flying melee units which exist on the ground plane, making them vulnerable to all types of ground attacks (sans missile turrets). The lower Shuriken HP also adds to their vulnerability. The relative ease of killing Shuriken often reduces the Tempest to nothing more than an impenetrable, yet harmless sentinel. Essentially the best way to counter Tempests is to target the Shuriken rather than the Tempest itself (in contrast to how you take down a Carrier). After much testing, I actually had to reduce Shuriken building time to make them effective (they were dying out too quickly, and could not be replaced fast enough). The Graviton Catapult upgrade also helps the Tempest greatly. ;-)
As for cost/value, when I pitted two Carriers against the same amount of marines, they hardly managed to kill 2 marines before they were gone.
30 Marines = 1500 Minerals
2 Carriers = 700 Minerals/500 Gas, + 200 Minerals for full hangars of Interceptors (25x8), effectively costing 1400 units of resources (partially in gas, being obviously more valuable than Minerals)
So, for 30 marines to take out 2 Carriers and losing a mere 2 casualties, we might argue that either Carriers are underpowered or Marines are overpowered.
The tables turned however, when I did the 2 Tempest test.
2 Tempests = 550 Minerals, 400 Gas + 300 Minerals for full hangars of Shuriken (25x12), equalling 1250 units of resources. Also, if you notice by the pictures, I had to build at least 7 replacement Shuriken during the battle, upping the cost to 1425 units of resources.
So at 1500 vs. 1425 resources, 1 Tempest dead, it's not that big of a cost advantage.
That being the case, I see Tempests as a perfect answer to Marines, and a cost-effective one at that. It still needs more testing though, so if it turns out that Tempests are too cheap (I mean cost-wise), I might raise the price a little, but their low stats and helpless stance vs. air units makes me reluctant to do so.
I did a Tempest-type unit myself, so it's great we have some similar ideals. But, I'm curious, is that a reskin you made yourself or a tint color? If so, I'm envious, I don't even know how to edit textures in SCII yet... :/, If not, please tell me what you used to get that color. ^^
Actually, it's just a color tint, and it's easy to do. :)
Simply add an event in the actor like:
UnitBirth.Tempest
SetTintColor #, #, #
The only thing though is, when you set a tint color on a unit (I also did this with my Dark Archon re-creation), some spells (like the Mothership's Vortex and Mass Recall are the ones that I discovered) remove the tint of affected units.
To counter this, this is what I used:
Behavior.VortexBehavior.On
SetTintColor #,#,# (Same tint as above)
Behavior.Recalled.Off
SetTintColor #,#,#
There might be other spells that cause this, but those are the only two I've run into so far.
Hello everyone. I've been lurking around forums, getting info on how to import/create/edit all the wonderful assets in the editor, and have finally, after hours of effort, trial and error, recreated the Tempest (and Shuriken) as seen in earlier builds of Starcraft 2. I for one, was seriously disappointed with the exclusion of the Tempest, and saw this interesting unit as a superb and immensely tactical addition to the Protoss fleet. I thus far have not seen anyone in this forum do such a re-creation yet, so I offer you my efforts:
Fully-functioning Tempests
Shurikens deployed, Ground Shields activated. These shields are near-impenetrable to ground units, inflicting a paltry 1 point of damage per attack.
Air units however, tear these guys apart. The ground shields only activate while the Tempest still has shield power.
The result of 2 Tempests vs. 30 Marines. 1 Tempest died in the encounter, while the other emerged unscathed.
A side-by-side comparison of the Protoss Capital ships. Aside from the darker coloration and slightly smaller, different model, I gave the Tempest a new portrait and Dark Templar Voice (being a Dark Templar Capital ship).
Here's what I did to the stats to separate the Tempest from Carriers, in keeping with what little information Blizzard released about the Tempest, that being of weaker, cheaper units than the Carrier:
TEMPEST / CARRIER
Life - 200 / 300
Shields - 100 / 150
Minerals - 275 / 350
Gas - 200 / 250
Hangar Capacity - 10 / 8
Hangar build spd - 6.0 / 8.0
Can attack - Ground / Ground and Air
SHURIKEN / INTERCEPTOR
Life - 30 / 40
Shields - 30 / 40
Dmg - 3 / 5
Dmg spd - 1.2 / 2.0
After some testing, I have pleasantly discovered that the Tempest makes for the ultimate counter for ground units, while still being vulnerable enough to air units to save from being overpowered. I included them in my unit mod and Custom Maps, and have been having a jolly old time with them so far. I also included them in the Graviton Catapult upgrade, so at 10 Shurikens a pop, they can be a very effective support craft behind the front lines. Why Blizzard didn't think to include Tempests as well as Carriers, as both are unique enough to make each valuable in it's own scenario, is beyond me. Perhaps Tempests will make a return in the final chapter of the trilogy? Who knows.
Does anyone know what validator I should use to disable a behavior only if the unit is taking damage from flying units? Seems like an easy thing to accomplish, but apparently not.
I like the idea of charging up energy, though only if it's possible to have a custom unit of energy independent from it's regular energy bar. Simply because I'd prefer the Purifier to still have abilities like Vortex. I tried to make it a single ability, although I can't get the charge up time to work. No matter what values I change, the blast effect is always instant, even if the damage is not. Any suggestions?
I'm trying to get the Purifier's Planet Cracker ability to only be selectable once the Power Down ability has been triggered for 30 seconds. Does anyone have any idea how I can accomplish this? I've messed around with all the actors, abilities, effects and whatnot I could think of but I can't seem to figure it out.
Sooo, still haven't accomplished anything, I've tried transferring the mod to another map, but the same thing happens. Can anyone give me a hand with this? It's extremely frustrating, and I have too much work finished to do it all over again.
Well, I'd checked the pathing before, and found nothing. Just checked again in case, and even went View - > Show Pathing and checked everything, and I really didn't see anything odd about wall contours. The only pathing alterations is on doodads scattered about the map, under which red marking appears. And it's not just that one set of cliffs, it's every cliff and wall on the map.
No, luckily I found the Lurker Cocoons in the editor so I used those to hatch them. I tried it all in game, and lurkers work smoothly otherwise. I checked the radius of the cocoons, and I could only find Movement - Radius (0.5) and Movement - Radius - Dead (0). It did have Movement - Collide, which is set to Ground. There is nothing for Pathing Footprints, does that make a difference?
Hello everyone, I've only been working with the editor for a few weeks now, so I don't really know my way around very well. I joined this community in hopes that someone might help me with a problem I can't seem to fix. I've recently been playing around with the editor, and tried converting a campaign map (New Folsom) into a Melee map, and it worked almost perfectly. The only problem, and the best way to describe it, is that any units on the field react to invisible geography, like spaces between cliffs are valleys, and higher level platforms have hills surrounding. When a unit approaches a cliff or a wall, they ascend as if there were an invisible hill, and not straight to the base of the wall as it should be. Of course the game itself played alright, but it just looks odd, and it makes buildings/crawlers/burrowed units who are too close to walls float in thin air. Now I don't know if this is related, but I also tried adding Lurkers back into the mix, but when Hydras morph into eggs, other ground units pass up and over them, instead of going around. Anyone know what is causing this, and what I can do to correct it?
Sorry if this all sounds noobish, I've only had SC2 for little over two weeks.
0
Yeah, I was considering what would make the Tempest worth the build, and it actually took quite a lot of testing, but for my Tech tree, by the time you get your first Tempest (assuming you're shooting for a Tempest), your enemy likely already has loads of air units, which clean up Tempests. Not only that, but the Ground Shields only activate while Tempests still have regular shield power. At a measly 100 shield, they quickly become vulnerable to ground units as well once air units have depleted it. The other balancing aspect is that even though Shurikens do more damage at a quicker rate, they do not benefit from the Ground Shield ability, and are also just low-flying melee units which exist on the ground plane, making them vulnerable to all types of ground attacks (sans missile turrets). The lower Shuriken HP also adds to their vulnerability. The relative ease of killing Shuriken often reduces the Tempest to nothing more than an impenetrable, yet harmless sentinel. Essentially the best way to counter Tempests is to target the Shuriken rather than the Tempest itself (in contrast to how you take down a Carrier). After much testing, I actually had to reduce Shuriken building time to make them effective (they were dying out too quickly, and could not be replaced fast enough). The Graviton Catapult upgrade also helps the Tempest greatly. ;-)
As for cost/value, when I pitted two Carriers against the same amount of marines, they hardly managed to kill 2 marines before they were gone.
30 Marines = 1500 Minerals
2 Carriers = 700 Minerals/500 Gas, + 200 Minerals for full hangars of Interceptors (25x8), effectively costing 1400 units of resources (partially in gas, being obviously more valuable than Minerals)
So, for 30 marines to take out 2 Carriers and losing a mere 2 casualties, we might argue that either Carriers are underpowered or Marines are overpowered. The tables turned however, when I did the 2 Tempest test.
2 Tempests = 550 Minerals, 400 Gas + 300 Minerals for full hangars of Shuriken (25x12), equalling 1250 units of resources. Also, if you notice by the pictures, I had to build at least 7 replacement Shuriken during the battle, upping the cost to 1425 units of resources.
So at 1500 vs. 1425 resources, 1 Tempest dead, it's not that big of a cost advantage.
That being the case, I see Tempests as a perfect answer to Marines, and a cost-effective one at that. It still needs more testing though, so if it turns out that Tempests are too cheap (I mean cost-wise), I might raise the price a little, but their low stats and helpless stance vs. air units makes me reluctant to do so.
Actually, it's just a color tint, and it's easy to do. :) Simply add an event in the actor like:
UnitBirth.Tempest SetTintColor
#,#,#The only thing though is, when you set a tint color on a unit (I also did this with my Dark Archon re-creation), some spells (like the Mothership's Vortex and Mass Recall are the ones that I discovered) remove the tint of affected units. To counter this, this is what I used:
Behavior.VortexBehavior.On SetTintColor
#,#,# (Same tint as above)Behavior.Recalled.Off SetTintColor
#,#,#There might be other spells that cause this, but those are the only two I've run into so far.
0
Hello everyone. I've been lurking around forums, getting info on how to import/create/edit all the wonderful assets in the editor, and have finally, after hours of effort, trial and error, recreated the Tempest (and Shuriken) as seen in earlier builds of Starcraft 2. I for one, was seriously disappointed with the exclusion of the Tempest, and saw this interesting unit as a superb and immensely tactical addition to the Protoss fleet. I thus far have not seen anyone in this forum do such a re-creation yet, so I offer you my efforts:
Here's what I did to the stats to separate the Tempest from Carriers, in keeping with what little information Blizzard released about the Tempest, that being of weaker, cheaper units than the Carrier:
TEMPEST / CARRIER
SHURIKEN / INTERCEPTOR
After some testing, I have pleasantly discovered that the Tempest makes for the ultimate counter for ground units, while still being vulnerable enough to air units to save from being overpowered. I included them in my unit mod and Custom Maps, and have been having a jolly old time with them so far. I also included them in the Graviton Catapult upgrade, so at 10 Shurikens a pop, they can be a very effective support craft behind the front lines. Why Blizzard didn't think to include Tempests as well as Carriers, as both are unique enough to make each valuable in it's own scenario, is beyond me. Perhaps Tempests will make a return in the final chapter of the trilogy? Who knows.
What do you guys think?
0
Does anyone know what validator I should use to disable a behavior only if the unit is taking damage from flying units? Seems like an easy thing to accomplish, but apparently not.
0
@zeldarules28: Go
I like the idea of charging up energy, though only if it's possible to have a custom unit of energy independent from it's regular energy bar. Simply because I'd prefer the Purifier to still have abilities like Vortex. I tried to make it a single ability, although I can't get the charge up time to work. No matter what values I change, the blast effect is always instant, even if the damage is not. Any suggestions?
0
I'm trying to get the Purifier's Planet Cracker ability to only be selectable once the Power Down ability has been triggered for 30 seconds. Does anyone have any idea how I can accomplish this? I've messed around with all the actors, abilities, effects and whatnot I could think of but I can't seem to figure it out.
0
Sooo, still haven't accomplished anything, I've tried transferring the mod to another map, but the same thing happens. Can anyone give me a hand with this? It's extremely frustrating, and I have too much work finished to do it all over again.
0
@TheAlmaity: Go
Well, I'd checked the pathing before, and found nothing. Just checked again in case, and even went View - > Show Pathing and checked everything, and I really didn't see anything odd about wall contours. The only pathing alterations is on doodads scattered about the map, under which red marking appears. And it's not just that one set of cliffs, it's every cliff and wall on the map.
No, luckily I found the Lurker Cocoons in the editor so I used those to hatch them. I tried it all in game, and lurkers work smoothly otherwise. I checked the radius of the cocoons, and I could only find Movement - Radius (0.5) and Movement - Radius - Dead (0). It did have Movement - Collide, which is set to Ground. There is nothing for Pathing Footprints, does that make a difference?
0
Hello everyone, I've only been working with the editor for a few weeks now, so I don't really know my way around very well. I joined this community in hopes that someone might help me with a problem I can't seem to fix. I've recently been playing around with the editor, and tried converting a campaign map (New Folsom) into a Melee map, and it worked almost perfectly. The only problem, and the best way to describe it, is that any units on the field react to invisible geography, like spaces between cliffs are valleys, and higher level platforms have hills surrounding. When a unit approaches a cliff or a wall, they ascend as if there were an invisible hill, and not straight to the base of the wall as it should be. Of course the game itself played alright, but it just looks odd, and it makes buildings/crawlers/burrowed units who are too close to walls float in thin air. Now I don't know if this is related, but I also tried adding Lurkers back into the mix, but when Hydras morph into eggs, other ground units pass up and over them, instead of going around. Anyone know what is causing this, and what I can do to correct it?
Sorry if this all sounds noobish, I've only had SC2 for little over two weeks.
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