In light of Blizzard's announcement that they're redesigning many of the multiplayer units, I began to think about some of the units that were campaign exclusive, specifically Tal'darim units, as my current project focuses on the Tal'darim, however I am also curious on the community's thoughts on other units from the campaigns, such as:
Terran: Spectres, HERCs, Vultures, Goliaths, Diamondbacks, Predators, Wraiths, Hercules, and Science Vessels.
I have questions such as if you think they can co-exist with available units, what their niche is and any changes you purpose to differentiate them from similar units.
Zerg: any thoughts you may have on the idea of strains being available to research, (Ex, you can chose to research Swarmlings or Raptor Zerglings at the spawning pool) and also the possibility for Infestors being able to morph into virophages to create infested Terran buildings.
Protoss: I have a plan to separate the Protoss by factions, potentially having each faction available to play as at some point.
There are so many units for all races that more or less blend together in that their combat roles overlap. Goliaths and Diamondbacks are the only units whose combat role isn't overshadowed by other melee units - Wraiths are less useful than Vikings for anti air and less useful than Banshees for cloaked ground harassment. HERCs, Firebats, Predators, and Vultures are all overshadowed by Hellions and Hellbats. Spectres are actually stronger than Ghosts in terms of brute force but much weaker in terms of utility, but their roles are so similar that I wouldn't include both of them simultaneously (you'll note that blizzard themselves avoided having both of them controllable at the same time and made them exclusive). The same can be said about Ravens (offensive) vs Science Vessels (defensive/utility). Hercules are really just straight up better than Medivacs since you have Medics in the campaign already.
Thankfully the overlap between zerg units is less noticeable because the strains were exclusive and built to be more about playstyle (do I want beefier units that never die, or fast units that do a lot of damage, or units with utility, or some combination thereof?).
Protoss are more akin to terran just because there are so many units, but again, they are exclusive. You must choose between three units of a similar combat role, rather than attempting to find a way to balance the combinations of all three.
In the end, less is more. Start with just the bare-bones combat roles, and then add more as are necessary, with a focus on avoiding making units gimmicky and only useful for one or two maps. Obviously some units (marines, zealots) are useful in almost all cases, and some other units (banshees, phoenixes) are more specialised, but that shouldn't stop you from retooling existing units or designing brand new ones that are useful in many circumstances.
The Taldarim immortals were rigged in the campaign with their splash damage.
Ghosts were long range anti energy while spectres were close range with an ultra high damage ability.
The Hercules (HERC) was a large transport with more capacity and durability than a medivac for those drops past the enemy line of defence.
Vultures were meh and obsoleted by the hellion. They could lay mines but would need to be far faster than other units to be special and have regenerating mines.
Goliaths are rigged in mass (look at Swan in Co-op) especially with their ability to hit both air and ground at the same time which void thrashers and the colossus are (double fire power).
Diamondbacks could fire on the move so were a low clicks per second vulture which makes them easier for people who do not wear out their mice. Main issue was their cost to damage ratio was not as good as the siege tank In siege mode which can just be dropped by a HERC into position.
For a melee unit predators just lacks the attack speed or durability for the cost. Their splash damage was underwhelming.
Wraiths were good because they were in between the aa of the Viking and the anti ground of the banshee but could attack both.
Science vessels were medivacs for mechanical units so valid in their current form. Their anti organic radiation attacks were less useful.
Medics were good early on due to the same unlocks as marauders but later on the medivacs were better due to the dual healing.
With the zerg the main idea was exclusive options during the campaign you can have one but not the other so choose wisely...
Raptors were like reapers for raiding and had higher damage than swarmlings. In the campaign you relied on the one revive ability to resurrect 30 zerglings at a time so it was quality over quantity. Next to early rushes who uses zerglings at all after clearing the expansion. If there was to be an in map choice it would have to be in the 50 mineral range cost wise.
The mutalisk variants were more classic SC but the brood lord was inserted instead of the guardian and the devourer got dropped completely for the viper which was only useful against a siege tank wall. I would say a complete redesign which puts the balancing of the devourer in your hands. Originally they were specialised bomber and air superiority units compared to the generalist mutalisk. The guardian probably needs a range boost and bonus vs structures.
The hydralisk variants are good because lurker is close range splash while the impaler is long range siege.
The roach variants are imbalanced. The corpser was infinitely more versatile due to the ability to spawn cannon fodder while the other variant just slowed movement a little which was only useful against melee and not much since hybrids were immune. The slowing roach would need splash damage and slower enemy attack speed to be worth it. Alternatively you could make it a one in three choice with the ravager. I still say autocast for the ravager either way.
With the swarm hosts you had the option of fast moving flying spawns or a mobile creep tumour. Unless you wanted to do a tower push the second option sucked compared to what a queen can spawn every couple of seconds. You would have to give the second strain some kind of aura that boosts fighting on creep (like the co-op Kerrigan).
With the ultralisk strains the tarrasque was rigged with it being near immortal unless you sent it completely solo (only choice to bring down a god in the final mission next to brood lords). I would nerf the cocoons or make them a higher attack priority. As for the mini stanker version the area damage was laughable per second for the population cost. It would need the headbutt weapon back or for the aura to have a higher tick rate/larger area.
The virophage and spore cannon are more advanced structures than a unit upgrade. Also in liberty it was drones that constructed the virophages. Do not forget there is the classic queen which was reintroduced in LOTV whose job was making infected terrans and structures. I say have the defiler/celebrate as an upgrade option for the infestor. As for the spore cannon it needs the ability to be autocast.
Also lets not forget the two unused nydus worm strains which was the nydus attacker and the creep spawner.
Again with the protoss is it separate completely or mix and match?
HERC: HERCs were an entirely separate unit from Hercules transports, and served as a front line infantry, it was in the LOTV beta and assets for it still exist in the editor. I do believe Blizzard was right to remove the unit for it's overlap with the Hellion.
Firebats: I noticed a very large overlap with the Hellion and it seems Pr0nogo agrees, and with the introduction of the Hellbat, taking up the advantage the firebat had of being tankier than the hellion, and with Perdition Turrets being able to take the defensive role of a firebat in a bunker, I think the firebat would take significant changes, but I am unsure where to start.
Ghost/Spectre: I do intend to make this faction dependent, (Ex: Dominion - Ghost, Rebel groups - Spectre)
Vulture: I have considered increasing the sight range and movement speed of the unit to perhaps make it a viable scouting option.
Predators: I agree with both of your assessments of the unit, it both overlaps with the Hellbat and is too expensive for what it gives.
Goliaths: I think leaving out the upgrade to let them attack both, will help to make them more specialized as Terran's ground to air unit.
Diamondbacks: I've always viewed them as heavy assault vultures, which makes them strange to me because im not sure what aspect to focus on. I do agree that their cost was a bit high, but the unit had quite good damage and health. And with blizzard's changes to the cyclone making it the mech anti-armor choice for Terran, I'm unsure as to what to do with the Diamondback
Wraiths: I've considered adding damage to light units on their ground attack to perhaps make them better at picking off small units, but im not sure this will fix anything. While yes, the wraith does perform both of the tasks the viking does without a form switch, but the wraith couldn't perform anti air or anti ground as well as the viking can.
Medivacs: I am currently considering removing the medivac and perhaps replacing them with the Special Ops Dropship, granting it the ability to cloak. But I am unsure of the power of cloakable drops.
Science Vessels: Science Vessels felt very much like nothing more than Medivacs for Mechs, as DrSuperEvil stated. Perhaps increasing the damage of Irradiate and granting it the Defensive matrix ability will make it a more versatile choice.
Zerg:
I agree with much of DrSuperEvil's assessment of the Zerg Strains, however I do intend on adding upgrades for the Zergling similar to what Zagara has in Coop.
Mutalisk/Corruptor: I've readded the corruptor, giving it the ability to morph into a broodlord once more and Vipers can be morphed from larvae, like multiplayer, making for no use for the Mutalisk strains.
Hydralisk: I do agree this was one of the more interesting choices in HOTS, and I intend to keep it that way, making an upgrade in the Hydralisk Den, leaving it up to the player to decide, much like the other strain upgrades.
Roaches: I found the vile roach strain to be quite useful as the debuff they provided also slowed attack speed and was not reliant on a timer as the corpser was. But I intend to keep both options available for research.
Swarm Host: I think I will be sticking with Blizzard's changes to the swarm host in the redesign, removing the strains.
Ultralisk: I agree with your ideas on the Ultralisk.
I decided to have the virophage morph from an infestor as it is the source of infestation, i figured I'd help the infestor live up to it's name. I am also considering removing that ability in favor of just allowing the infestor to infest a command center, like a brood war Queen, as a feel creating a structure in the enemy base is quite a bit of setup. Nydus worm strains might be interesting, however seeing as the standard worm spawns creep I'd have to create another buff for the second strain.
Protoss:
The intention is for the Protoss to have seperate factions. For example if you are playing the Tal'darim Campaign, you will be able to train Blood Hunters, however if you are playing the Khalai Campaign you will be able to train Avengers
You could make firebats more anti structure and do damage over time.
Make wraiths a raiding/early interceptor role by increasing the speed
Cloakable drops would not be too useful since most static anti air structures already are detectors. I say stick with the medivac as a late game medic that does not collide with ground.
Still say make the mutalisk strains for the guardian/devourer morph like in SC1
The swarm host being able to make flying spawns that could climb cliffs was a useful strain
The creep spawner has an ability that launches a long path of creep in the chosen direction in addition to the creep spawn around the structure. This equivalently creates a creep road that armies can use to quickly move along.
In light of Blizzard's announcement that they're redesigning many of the multiplayer units, I began to think about some of the units that were campaign exclusive, specifically Tal'darim units, as my current project focuses on the Tal'darim, however I am also curious on the community's thoughts on other units from the campaigns, such as:
Terran: Spectres, HERCs, Vultures, Goliaths, Diamondbacks, Predators, Wraiths, Hercules, and Science Vessels. I have questions such as if you think they can co-exist with available units, what their niche is and any changes you purpose to differentiate them from similar units.
Zerg: any thoughts you may have on the idea of strains being available to research, (Ex, you can chose to research Swarmlings or Raptor Zerglings at the spawning pool) and also the possibility for Infestors being able to morph into virophages to create infested Terran buildings.
Protoss: I have a plan to separate the Protoss by factions, potentially having each faction available to play as at some point.
Is anyone not concerned about spectres ultrasonic pulse? I mean stunning 1/2 the opponents army instantly as terran seems pretty good. And don't compare them to disruptors, disruptors take time to connect and has significant cooldown, this doesn't.
Also, leaping banelines/splitterlings can both provide amazing value.
Raptors were like reapers for raiding and had higher damage than swarmlings. In the campaign you relied on the one revive ability to resurrect 30 zerglings at a time so it was quality over quantity. Next to early rushes who uses zerglings at all after clearing the expansion. If there was to be an in map choice it would have to be in the 50 mineral range cost wise.
50 mineral range? You know that zling/bling is one of the strategies against bio right? And that zerglings are quite often used in ZvZ?
And I think you underestimate the ability of the jump on them. Not only do they move faster than reapers, they have higher single hit damage (less absorbed by armour), higher attack speed, hatch in 7, and 0 gas cost.
And who uses them? Well have you watched the WCS finals recently?
Wraiths were good because they were in between the aa of the Viking and the anti ground of the banshee but could attack both.
Wraiths were both weaker in damage and in range than vikings and banshees. Plus they're a tech lab unit, making them even worse compared to vikings. Even in the mission they were in you were much better off building banshee/viking mix than those things.
I just tried out your mod, SoulFilcher. At the moment I have only taken a look at the Tal'darim and Infested terran, but later I intend to try the rest. (Side note but I think the Skytalon may be a little too good at killing mineral lines) I do like the idea behind it and I intend to play with it some more a little later
Firebats being anti-structure units could be a very interesting idea, perhaps renaming them Arsonists aswell.
I think I could enhance the Wraith's raiding aspect and making it more of a single target AA unit whereas the viking with the Ripwave Missiles is more AOE AA.
However decreasing the cost, removing the Tech Lab Requirement and perhaps very slightly increasing ground damage to perhaps 11 and adding a bonus to light units could make it a more raid focused unit. Making all of these changes could make the Wraith rather strong though so it will take some experimenting.
I personally find the Brood Lord much more fun than the Guardian was, but maybe that's just me. I wouldn't be opposed to replacing the corrupter with the devourer though.
I'm not terribly concerned with the spectre's stun, as I am making a custom campaign and units will be more spread out. But if it proves to be problematic I'm not opposed to adding a slight delay, and perhaps increasing the cooldown or Energy cost.
Re: Brood Lord vs Guardian, I think guardian could be a single target high damage unit, perhaps good vs armored, while broodlord could have base impact damage lowered, but perhaps a slightly faster cooldown and give the broodling a larger lifespan, so the focus would be more on swarming, which could be ofc counter with any sort of crowd control spell.
That could be an interesting way to differentiate the two units. But if I intend to utilize the Broodlord, Guardian, and Devourer I'm unsure of what should morph from what.
Wow, a very nice and detailed guide! I find that I agree on most of your assesment. A general trend I noticed was that Blizzard seemed to get better with the upgrades as time went on, with a fair number of low use upgrades in WOL to a very low number of low use upgrades in LOTV. I personally enjoyed WOL's campaign the most so that is in no way indicative of what I think of the campaigns as a whole.
The only Minor disagreement I had was that you seem to underestimate the power of the Wrathwalker's high damage, even though it's single target, you can compensate with the Ascendant and High Templar, and to a lesser extent the Vanguard. While those do not come close to matching the AOE power of the Colossus or the Reaver, I still think the Wrathwalker is a great choice, and the Robotic Siege was one of the units I had the most difficulty deciding, as all the options are very good.
Reconsidering the LOTV units I've noticed a trend with the factions, fairly well fitting with their lore.
Nerazim were more stealthy and specialist units, relying on good control to manipulate their power
Purifiers had some of the most durable units and focused less on the damage output.
Tal'darim had some of the highest damaging units, emphasizing the brute force nature of the faction.
Overall, great analysis and I will definitely refer to this later as I work on improving underused units.
You underestimate the value of command center reactor. CCR is like a loan, you pay more early, but you get a lot of minerals back when you hit saturation before you usually can. While it's not as good as the other option, it's not entirely useless.
Regenerative Bio-steel is also underrated as it can allow you to move out mech armies with little to no Science vessel support, which cost a lot of gas.
PF's are criminally underrated, they are large, high HP things that can block chokepoints.
Lurkers underrated, the splash makes them very useful in few numbers when defending bio-launchers, virophages or your base.
Annihilators can also get rid of air units, which means for missions with a light air presence you don't need to waste minerals on things like dragoons/phoenix's. Also they can hit while moving.
Also mothership is slightly underrated because blink gives it the mobility the other 2 don't have.
The guardian was a slow attacking, ultra long range, anti structure unit which could outrange a sieged siege tank and any anti air structures. In SC1 it did single target damage equal to a sieged siege tank but with a faster fire rate.
The devourer was a slow, high durability, high damage, low range, aa unit with AOE and a stacking passive that reduced target armor.
Planetary fortresses are good if you can put a wall of SCVs behind them to repair them. Unfortunately in the WoL campaign they were not so useful because Kerrigan would use razor storm that would kill all the SCVs.
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Planetary fortresses are good if you can put a wall of SCVs behind them to repair them. Unfortunately in the WoL campaign they were not so useful because Kerrigan would use razor storm that would kill all the SCVs.
That is why I attacked her first with my Banshee raiding party. She wastes razor swarm on them, you withdraw with minimum damage (repaired by Sci Vessels) and then she attacks your wall of PFs and tanks, unable to use the ability again before you send her back licking her wounds. I managed to hold the lines until the very last minutes this way.
All in was a lot harder than Salvation in my opinion, kinda disappointing when the stakes of All in were significantly lower... But neither came close to the hell that was holdout mission in the epilogue... I found the last two epilogue missions to be fairly challenging on Brutal, Im not sure if the missions were actually, hard, or having to play my off races, or I'm just bad, or any combination of those three.
- Metabolic Boost lets your lings close on ranged units faster (especially tanks) and is invaluable on missions to siege bases, I prefer adrenal overload but on Old Soldiers it lets you kill about 2 times the units in the intro as the other 2.
- Grooved spines keeps your hydras out of range of marines when you have roaches to tank, and is nice for when you have a hydra/Kerrigan army, to better support her and keep the support alive, also good in conviction in small hallways that don't give you room to concave
- Mass recall is cheap, and lets you avoid spending 1000+ minerals to make a defense 2 hybrids will kill on brutal, and you can use the barrier from it to mimic overcharge on your army.
- Adepts have great AA damage, as scouts, mutalisks are both annoying in the campaign. Their damage buff lasts actually a while (7 seconds?) and 1 shade can hit their whole army, also it affects hybrids. You can also fit more in a physical space then the other, but this is a blessing and curse against AOE.
Nexus overcharge is great for Last Stand and Salvation, so yeah, While it is awesome for those two I get its limited usage otherwise.
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
Somewhat related to the topic at hand, What were your favorite units in general? Not for their usefulness or power necessarily, but just whichever ones you had the most fun using, in both SC1 and SC2?
I had a lot of fun with Dark Archons in both games, and it's the reason I play Vorazun in Co-op.
The Broodlord is probably my favorite new unit in SC2, I really liked the Ascendants in the campaign, but I just couldn't pass up on Dark Archons.
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In light of Blizzard's announcement that they're redesigning many of the multiplayer units, I began to think about some of the units that were campaign exclusive, specifically Tal'darim units, as my current project focuses on the Tal'darim, however I am also curious on the community's thoughts on other units from the campaigns, such as:
Terran: Spectres, HERCs, Vultures, Goliaths, Diamondbacks, Predators, Wraiths, Hercules, and Science Vessels. I have questions such as if you think they can co-exist with available units, what their niche is and any changes you purpose to differentiate them from similar units.
Zerg: any thoughts you may have on the idea of strains being available to research, (Ex, you can chose to research Swarmlings or Raptor Zerglings at the spawning pool) and also the possibility for Infestors being able to morph into virophages to create infested Terran buildings.
Protoss: I have a plan to separate the Protoss by factions, potentially having each faction available to play as at some point.
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Curse PremiumThere are so many units for all races that more or less blend together in that their combat roles overlap. Goliaths and Diamondbacks are the only units whose combat role isn't overshadowed by other melee units - Wraiths are less useful than Vikings for anti air and less useful than Banshees for cloaked ground harassment. HERCs, Firebats, Predators, and Vultures are all overshadowed by Hellions and Hellbats. Spectres are actually stronger than Ghosts in terms of brute force but much weaker in terms of utility, but their roles are so similar that I wouldn't include both of them simultaneously (you'll note that blizzard themselves avoided having both of them controllable at the same time and made them exclusive). The same can be said about Ravens (offensive) vs Science Vessels (defensive/utility). Hercules are really just straight up better than Medivacs since you have Medics in the campaign already.
Thankfully the overlap between zerg units is less noticeable because the strains were exclusive and built to be more about playstyle (do I want beefier units that never die, or fast units that do a lot of damage, or units with utility, or some combination thereof?).
Protoss are more akin to terran just because there are so many units, but again, they are exclusive. You must choose between three units of a similar combat role, rather than attempting to find a way to balance the combinations of all three.
In the end, less is more. Start with just the bare-bones combat roles, and then add more as are necessary, with a focus on avoiding making units gimmicky and only useful for one or two maps. Obviously some units (marines, zealots) are useful in almost all cases, and some other units (banshees, phoenixes) are more specialised, but that shouldn't stop you from retooling existing units or designing brand new ones that are useful in many circumstances.
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ModeratorsThe Taldarim immortals were rigged in the campaign with their splash damage.
Ghosts were long range anti energy while spectres were close range with an ultra high damage ability.
The Hercules (HERC) was a large transport with more capacity and durability than a medivac for those drops past the enemy line of defence.
Vultures were meh and obsoleted by the hellion. They could lay mines but would need to be far faster than other units to be special and have regenerating mines.
Goliaths are rigged in mass (look at Swan in Co-op) especially with their ability to hit both air and ground at the same time which void thrashers and the colossus are (double fire power).
Diamondbacks could fire on the move so were a low clicks per second vulture which makes them easier for people who do not wear out their mice. Main issue was their cost to damage ratio was not as good as the siege tank In siege mode which can just be dropped by a HERC into position.
For a melee unit predators just lacks the attack speed or durability for the cost. Their splash damage was underwhelming.
Wraiths were good because they were in between the aa of the Viking and the anti ground of the banshee but could attack both.
Science vessels were medivacs for mechanical units so valid in their current form. Their anti organic radiation attacks were less useful.
Medics were good early on due to the same unlocks as marauders but later on the medivacs were better due to the dual healing.
With the zerg the main idea was exclusive options during the campaign you can have one but not the other so choose wisely...
Raptors were like reapers for raiding and had higher damage than swarmlings. In the campaign you relied on the one revive ability to resurrect 30 zerglings at a time so it was quality over quantity. Next to early rushes who uses zerglings at all after clearing the expansion. If there was to be an in map choice it would have to be in the 50 mineral range cost wise.
The mutalisk variants were more classic SC but the brood lord was inserted instead of the guardian and the devourer got dropped completely for the viper which was only useful against a siege tank wall. I would say a complete redesign which puts the balancing of the devourer in your hands. Originally they were specialised bomber and air superiority units compared to the generalist mutalisk. The guardian probably needs a range boost and bonus vs structures.
The hydralisk variants are good because lurker is close range splash while the impaler is long range siege.
The roach variants are imbalanced. The corpser was infinitely more versatile due to the ability to spawn cannon fodder while the other variant just slowed movement a little which was only useful against melee and not much since hybrids were immune. The slowing roach would need splash damage and slower enemy attack speed to be worth it. Alternatively you could make it a one in three choice with the ravager. I still say autocast for the ravager either way.
With the swarm hosts you had the option of fast moving flying spawns or a mobile creep tumour. Unless you wanted to do a tower push the second option sucked compared to what a queen can spawn every couple of seconds. You would have to give the second strain some kind of aura that boosts fighting on creep (like the co-op Kerrigan).
With the ultralisk strains the tarrasque was rigged with it being near immortal unless you sent it completely solo (only choice to bring down a god in the final mission next to brood lords). I would nerf the cocoons or make them a higher attack priority. As for the mini stanker version the area damage was laughable per second for the population cost. It would need the headbutt weapon back or for the aura to have a higher tick rate/larger area.
The virophage and spore cannon are more advanced structures than a unit upgrade. Also in liberty it was drones that constructed the virophages. Do not forget there is the classic queen which was reintroduced in LOTV whose job was making infected terrans and structures. I say have the defiler/celebrate as an upgrade option for the infestor. As for the spore cannon it needs the ability to be autocast.
Also lets not forget the two unused nydus worm strains which was the nydus attacker and the creep spawner.
Again with the protoss is it separate completely or mix and match?
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I appreciate the feedback!
Terran:
HERC: HERCs were an entirely separate unit from Hercules transports, and served as a front line infantry, it was in the LOTV beta and assets for it still exist in the editor. I do believe Blizzard was right to remove the unit for it's overlap with the Hellion.
Firebats: I noticed a very large overlap with the Hellion and it seems Pr0nogo agrees, and with the introduction of the Hellbat, taking up the advantage the firebat had of being tankier than the hellion, and with Perdition Turrets being able to take the defensive role of a firebat in a bunker, I think the firebat would take significant changes, but I am unsure where to start.
Ghost/Spectre: I do intend to make this faction dependent, (Ex: Dominion - Ghost, Rebel groups - Spectre)
Vulture: I have considered increasing the sight range and movement speed of the unit to perhaps make it a viable scouting option.
Predators: I agree with both of your assessments of the unit, it both overlaps with the Hellbat and is too expensive for what it gives.
Goliaths: I think leaving out the upgrade to let them attack both, will help to make them more specialized as Terran's ground to air unit.
Diamondbacks: I've always viewed them as heavy assault vultures, which makes them strange to me because im not sure what aspect to focus on. I do agree that their cost was a bit high, but the unit had quite good damage and health. And with blizzard's changes to the cyclone making it the mech anti-armor choice for Terran, I'm unsure as to what to do with the Diamondback
Wraiths: I've considered adding damage to light units on their ground attack to perhaps make them better at picking off small units, but im not sure this will fix anything. While yes, the wraith does perform both of the tasks the viking does without a form switch, but the wraith couldn't perform anti air or anti ground as well as the viking can.
Medivacs: I am currently considering removing the medivac and perhaps replacing them with the Special Ops Dropship, granting it the ability to cloak. But I am unsure of the power of cloakable drops.
Science Vessels: Science Vessels felt very much like nothing more than Medivacs for Mechs, as DrSuperEvil stated. Perhaps increasing the damage of Irradiate and granting it the Defensive matrix ability will make it a more versatile choice.
Zerg:
I agree with much of DrSuperEvil's assessment of the Zerg Strains, however I do intend on adding upgrades for the Zergling similar to what Zagara has in Coop.
Mutalisk/Corruptor: I've readded the corruptor, giving it the ability to morph into a broodlord once more and Vipers can be morphed from larvae, like multiplayer, making for no use for the Mutalisk strains.
Hydralisk: I do agree this was one of the more interesting choices in HOTS, and I intend to keep it that way, making an upgrade in the Hydralisk Den, leaving it up to the player to decide, much like the other strain upgrades.
Roaches: I found the vile roach strain to be quite useful as the debuff they provided also slowed attack speed and was not reliant on a timer as the corpser was. But I intend to keep both options available for research.
Swarm Host: I think I will be sticking with Blizzard's changes to the swarm host in the redesign, removing the strains.
Ultralisk: I agree with your ideas on the Ultralisk.
I decided to have the virophage morph from an infestor as it is the source of infestation, i figured I'd help the infestor live up to it's name. I am also considering removing that ability in favor of just allowing the infestor to infest a command center, like a brood war Queen, as a feel creating a structure in the enemy base is quite a bit of setup. Nydus worm strains might be interesting, however seeing as the standard worm spawns creep I'd have to create another buff for the second strain.
Protoss: The intention is for the Protoss to have seperate factions. For example if you are playing the Tal'darim Campaign, you will be able to train Blood Hunters, however if you are playing the Khalai Campaign you will be able to train Avengers
Thanks, again for your feedback and ideas!
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ModeratorsYou could make firebats more anti structure and do damage over time.
Make wraiths a raiding/early interceptor role by increasing the speed
Cloakable drops would not be too useful since most static anti air structures already are detectors. I say stick with the medivac as a late game medic that does not collide with ground.
Still say make the mutalisk strains for the guardian/devourer morph like in SC1
The swarm host being able to make flying spawns that could climb cliffs was a useful strain
The creep spawner has an ability that launches a long path of creep in the chosen direction in addition to the creep spawn around the structure. This equivalently creates a creep road that armies can use to quickly move along.
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Is anyone not concerned about spectres ultrasonic pulse? I mean stunning 1/2 the opponents army instantly as terran seems pretty good. And don't compare them to disruptors, disruptors take time to connect and has significant cooldown, this doesn't.
Also, leaping banelines/splitterlings can both provide amazing value.
Also:
50 mineral range? You know that zling/bling is one of the strategies against bio right? And that zerglings are quite often used in ZvZ?
And I think you underestimate the ability of the jump on them. Not only do they move faster than reapers, they have higher single hit damage (less absorbed by armour), higher attack speed, hatch in 7, and 0 gas cost.
And who uses them? Well have you watched the WCS finals recently?
Wraiths were both weaker in damage and in range than vikings and banshees. Plus they're a tech lab unit, making them even worse compared to vikings. Even in the mission they were in you were much better off building banshee/viking mix than those things.
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I just tried out your mod, SoulFilcher. At the moment I have only taken a look at the Tal'darim and Infested terran, but later I intend to try the rest. (Side note but I think the Skytalon may be a little too good at killing mineral lines) I do like the idea behind it and I intend to play with it some more a little later
Firebats being anti-structure units could be a very interesting idea, perhaps renaming them Arsonists aswell.
I think I could enhance the Wraith's raiding aspect and making it more of a single target AA unit whereas the viking with the Ripwave Missiles is more AOE AA. However decreasing the cost, removing the Tech Lab Requirement and perhaps very slightly increasing ground damage to perhaps 11 and adding a bonus to light units could make it a more raid focused unit. Making all of these changes could make the Wraith rather strong though so it will take some experimenting.
I personally find the Brood Lord much more fun than the Guardian was, but maybe that's just me. I wouldn't be opposed to replacing the corrupter with the devourer though.
I'm not terribly concerned with the spectre's stun, as I am making a custom campaign and units will be more spread out. But if it proves to be problematic I'm not opposed to adding a slight delay, and perhaps increasing the cooldown or Energy cost.
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Curse PremiumRe: Brood Lord vs Guardian, I think guardian could be a single target high damage unit, perhaps good vs armored, while broodlord could have base impact damage lowered, but perhaps a slightly faster cooldown and give the broodling a larger lifespan, so the focus would be more on swarming, which could be ofc counter with any sort of crowd control spell.
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That could be an interesting way to differentiate the two units. But if I intend to utilize the Broodlord, Guardian, and Devourer I'm unsure of what should morph from what.
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Wow, a very nice and detailed guide! I find that I agree on most of your assesment. A general trend I noticed was that Blizzard seemed to get better with the upgrades as time went on, with a fair number of low use upgrades in WOL to a very low number of low use upgrades in LOTV. I personally enjoyed WOL's campaign the most so that is in no way indicative of what I think of the campaigns as a whole.
The only Minor disagreement I had was that you seem to underestimate the power of the Wrathwalker's high damage, even though it's single target, you can compensate with the Ascendant and High Templar, and to a lesser extent the Vanguard. While those do not come close to matching the AOE power of the Colossus or the Reaver, I still think the Wrathwalker is a great choice, and the Robotic Siege was one of the units I had the most difficulty deciding, as all the options are very good.
Reconsidering the LOTV units I've noticed a trend with the factions, fairly well fitting with their lore. Nerazim were more stealthy and specialist units, relying on good control to manipulate their power Purifiers had some of the most durable units and focused less on the damage output. Tal'darim had some of the highest damaging units, emphasizing the brute force nature of the faction.
Overall, great analysis and I will definitely refer to this later as I work on improving underused units.
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Mostly agree, but a few points:
You underestimate the value of command center reactor. CCR is like a loan, you pay more early, but you get a lot of minerals back when you hit saturation before you usually can. While it's not as good as the other option, it's not entirely useless.
Regenerative Bio-steel is also underrated as it can allow you to move out mech armies with little to no Science vessel support, which cost a lot of gas.
PF's are criminally underrated, they are large, high HP things that can block chokepoints.
Lurkers underrated, the splash makes them very useful in few numbers when defending bio-launchers, virophages or your base.
Annihilators can also get rid of air units, which means for missions with a light air presence you don't need to waste minerals on things like dragoons/phoenix's. Also they can hit while moving.
Also mothership is slightly underrated because blink gives it the mobility the other 2 don't have.
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Moderators@DarkKazoie: Go
Guardian and Devourer morph from mutalisk
Broodlord morphs from corrupter
The guardian was a slow attacking, ultra long range, anti structure unit which could outrange a sieged siege tank and any anti air structures. In SC1 it did single target damage equal to a sieged siege tank but with a faster fire rate.
The devourer was a slow, high durability, high damage, low range, aa unit with AOE and a stacking passive that reduced target armor.
@TChosenOne: Go
Planetary fortresses are good if you can put a wall of SCVs behind them to repair them. Unfortunately in the WoL campaign they were not so useful because Kerrigan would use razor storm that would kill all the SCVs.
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That is why I attacked her first with my Banshee raiding party. She wastes razor swarm on them, you withdraw with minimum damage (repaired by Sci Vessels) and then she attacks your wall of PFs and tanks, unable to use the ability again before you send her back licking her wounds. I managed to hold the lines until the very last minutes this way.
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ModeratorsThat mission still was pretty brutal on the hardest difficulty. At least compared to the later campaigns.
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All in was a lot harder than Salvation in my opinion, kinda disappointing when the stakes of All in were significantly lower... But neither came close to the hell that was holdout mission in the epilogue... I found the last two epilogue missions to be fairly challenging on Brutal, Im not sure if the missions were actually, hard, or having to play my off races, or I'm just bad, or any combination of those three.
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Curse PremiumSalvation is really easy with the right tech choices, even on brutal just keep making NexuI with Overcharge, and arbiters. Pretty simple win.
Salvation is really easy with the right tech choices, even on brutal just keep making NexuI with Overcharge, and arbiters. Pretty simple win.
I disagree with a few,
- Metabolic Boost lets your lings close on ranged units faster (especially tanks) and is invaluable on missions to siege bases, I prefer adrenal overload but on Old Soldiers it lets you kill about 2 times the units in the intro as the other 2.
- Grooved spines keeps your hydras out of range of marines when you have roaches to tank, and is nice for when you have a hydra/Kerrigan army, to better support her and keep the support alive, also good in conviction in small hallways that don't give you room to concave
- Mass recall is cheap, and lets you avoid spending 1000+ minerals to make a defense 2 hybrids will kill on brutal, and you can use the barrier from it to mimic overcharge on your army.
- Adepts have great AA damage, as scouts, mutalisks are both annoying in the campaign. Their damage buff lasts actually a while (7 seconds?) and 1 shade can hit their whole army, also it affects hybrids. You can also fit more in a physical space then the other, but this is a blessing and curse against AOE.
Nexus overcharge is great for Last Stand and Salvation, so yeah, While it is awesome for those two I get its limited usage otherwise.
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ModeratorsFinal three LOTV missions were challenging but did not scale much with difficulty. Once you had the winning army it was just a matter of time.
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Somewhat related to the topic at hand, What were your favorite units in general? Not for their usefulness or power necessarily, but just whichever ones you had the most fun using, in both SC1 and SC2?
I had a lot of fun with Dark Archons in both games, and it's the reason I play Vorazun in Co-op. The Broodlord is probably my favorite new unit in SC2, I really liked the Ascendants in the campaign, but I just couldn't pass up on Dark Archons.