SC2Mapster

2 archons and a spectre killed by 1 savior.

marine arena is dead.

moving on to something else.

it was fun while it lasted.

never meant my comment to be offensive. i too got beat by some dude trying out the raven cause my teammate did not bother to hold middle after sudden death. u see another flaw for raven_{,all upgrades go towers armor and health. if done right even lvl 30 attack on rines cant break them. but it doesnt matter now. it has a cool down. see if raven is killed...what about his units?? no upgrades right? raven depends on teammate but now its usless. i am sure your good. read over my comments before u take it as an insult. i dunno to behave on the internet am still pretty new at this geek thing. my gf also wants me to be polite. at least u said something...now more marine arena!!}

old merc shop is stuck on one color the entire game.

Changing one thing can ruin a perfectly good game. Center beacon as a detector? lmao

I speak for the entire gaming community when i say this.... WE NEED NEW MERCS!!!!!

Hydras Perhaps?

You pick !!!

actually madd, my units were strong enough each time to beat it. Other then the shop bug that i saw with crayon's game an hour ago everything seems very good.

Side note. Maddblight589, I would appreciate it if you would stop continuing to make assumptions of my skill, I do not do so to you and I would expect the same amount of respect.

Hey Crayon. Hopefully this isn't just me... I know you buffed stalkers, but they seem a little overpowered. I've played basically nothing but this game since I started the beta and i've noticed the changes over time ever since you created it and i've loved it. Stalkers now rule the game though much like marines did pre-buff... just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in there. Love the game you're doin an excellent job!

and you are one of them?...raven is still flawed but effective in taking down giants who have nvr seen it been used

Need to make it so the shop captures dont include burrowed units. ive seen players ccontrol it whole games that way

Edit: Raven Auto-turret spamming is becoming common. ive seen players with 2k more kills die to it.

K, I know I'm the infamous dude who started the HK rush scare thing. The thing is, if someone actually knows how to correctly counter the HK's, they absolutely cannot be beaten with HK's. Crackling techer, for example. These things slaughter HK's. The heroes just aren't overpowered, they're just extremely potent against some strategies and weak versus other strategies. In no way do I think the heroes, particularly the HK's, are OP. They have their counters. The thing is that the counters are few and far between. But when you find the counter, they pay off. So, KewlCrayon, settle this once and for all...

WILL YOU NERF THE HEROES?

Nice points Kale, my reply was sarcasm so sorry you wasted time on it. I was just ranting because I had just gotten my ass handed to me by 2 queens being used by 1 player with 2 CCs.

Yesterday I played a game that seriously no less than 4 people tried the HK thing but I was prepared and went Zealot to Lancer.

I think its all well balanced but the defensive aspects of the game such as 200 energy for vortex (backed by not getting kill points that take place in the vortex) have disabled it as a viable option.

Much of the game is determined by early feed if the player is skilled enough to take advantage of it. Just as with all spawning/point based games.

oh yeah by infesteds i mean the saviors :)

Who needs graviton beam to counter heroes when you can just use an infested? :/

I mean seriously, I had three archons and two hydras and decided to attack because they sent their entire army to attack another team and i needed to take their spire down. So i sent my heroes in, they only had like 20 zlots and a couple of rines protecting and a bunch of mutas hiding somewhere waiting to snipe my base. I killed all of them and went to kill the spire, and then he sends out one infested terran >.> my three archons and two hydras died in like 3 seconds. 10 thousand minerals..gone in three seconds...

I was ahead of everyone until then. seeing that my heroes were dead the guy sniped my base and i lost :/ I had no ally since the beginning so i couldn't really do anything since i had already used up my infesteds stopping their early pushes:/

I really don't see the point of going heroes when you're too scared of even attacking with them :( Why waste the money on getting heroes when you can just up rines or mercs that autospawn? Running away from the infesteds becomes even more impossible when people start turtling and your computer is going at 1fps :/ I think I'm just whining XD

Oh yeah, is it an intended mechanic for mass recall not to affect archons? And how much damage do infesteds do and quickly do they attack? Don't get me wrong, this is a really good and fun map, but its things like these that really discourage me from playing it :/ Ok I'll shut up now :)

well said for a first post. well said

My first post ( I am not a person that likes making posts, ever.):

It may be problematic for everyone if people post tactics that, to the inexperience player, seems unbeatable. Please refrain from doing this because I believe it causes a community panic that results in game changes that will not likely be sound, balanced or warranted.

I believe it wastes crayon's time (if he feels pressured into making changes) and disheartens experienced players from continuing to play this game (something I have personally experienced).

I know about the tactic which maddblight589 speaks of. Please don't be too concerned about this tactic. It is not impervious whatsoever. Like many things, it is simply new. As we know, new tactics take time to master using them and also time to master how to counter them.

I was considering posting the counter-tactic to the new tactic maddblight589 speaks of. However, unless it become a problematic community scare that may cause unbalanced game changes, I think I think it would be best just to let the tactic run its natural course and let people figure it out on there own. After-all, that is part of having fun with marine arena.

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I believe as a measure of telling true imbalance, we should try to use the imbalanced unit or tactic ourselves. We should all make a queen and see if winning is as easy as seems.

We should all try the HK rush and the HK mass attack.

We should play against a friend using our own tactics to see the counters. I remember defeating the 3 HK rush. That was a lot of fun for me.

There is a sweetness to finally killing someone's hard earned archon, queen or spectre. This is a feeling that all of you must experience. It is like a slice of heaven with a healthy portion of ass-whooping. "yes I just killed your only hope winning" "lol"

I have won many games using the HK rush and the HK mass attack. My 3 HK rush and HK mass attack was defeated by a very skilled player using temple zealots and teched marines.

In time I believe that the HK rush and mass HK attack will be countered by good players. I think it will be countered often. Remember, the unskilled player never cries foul when defeated by marines or by mercs. The unskilled player almost always declares imbalance when defeated by heroes. Again, there is something disturbing about seeing a small group of units defeat you. Even worse, to be defeated by 1 unit.

Whenever I make a new tactic up, I always try to find the counter for it. I have yet to find a tactic that is impervious.

If at the 20 minute mark, your kill score is only 60 percent of the leader, then perhaps you might not be as good at this game as you might have believed. If so then your ideas of imbalance or overpowered units or tactics may not be accurate.

In other words, if the person defeating you has 1200 kills to your 700, then his units are not imbalanced. They are simply more upgraded than yours (even if there are only a few of them, or even if there is only 1 unit doing the ass kicking).

I assure you, that your enemy spent his money somewhere, otherwise he would not be winning. Please consider that with honesty. I have been in a few games where the kill score leader was clearly a better player than me.

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Quote Maddblight: "i dont think u understand... some games end in less than 15 min. for example...my trick is to buy a hk before building a merc and rush te poor noob who is trying to save for stalkers or whatever."

My thoughts on that:

1. his real mistake was saving up. that guy deserved his fate the moment he decided to save.

2. I have successfully defended against every one of my own tactics. This includes the HK rush and even the 3 HK rush.

3. to defend against the HK rush, simply build turrets. 5 turrets is enough to kill the first HK. That is a measly 50 minerals. You will make a profit, not to mention that you set your enemy back by 175. If you do not have 50 minerals, you probably deserved defeat. Lings or zealots combined with turrets will stop the HK quick. If it wants to live, it will leave. Preferably it will stay and die.

4. Mass HK attack: use temple zealots followed by anything that shoots (teched marine, mutalisk, voids, stalkers). This is a highly effective counter. Lings will not work.

5. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with quickly killing people who do not know what they are doing.

6. Honestly, I do not think the HK rush is a big issue. I believe this tactic has caused a large community scare and has probably resulted in changes that are not balanced. But worse, I think it may have wasted crayon's time

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Quote Headgames: "The HK is fine, its Queenfester (devil herself) thats OP. This thing eats what ever when ever it wants with super fast regen on the energy.

My thoughts on that:

1. If i see someone making a queen, I make a spector or at least 2 ghosts.

2. EMP stops the queen. My HK, or army will do the rest. No big deal. easy defeat. she doesn't show up until the 20 minute mark. By then you should be relatively strong.

3. If you kill any tier 4 hero (archon, queen, spectre). you cripple your enemy, a come back is unlikely. Unless you are not any good at this game, you should win fairly easily. The person who owns the queen has gambled his entire game on that 1 unit. By all means it should be godlike and he should use it as a highly skilled player would. In other words: If he kills someone then he probably deserved the victory.

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Perhaps we need a FAQ sheet or something similar to an editable document where players can post or edit tactics and counter-tactics. I think that would greatly reduce the amount of these overbalanced and overpowered claims. I must admit, I have no idea how to implement that. Perhaps another suggestion would be better at resolving this.

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Lastly, here is my own experience:

My three collossi (did i spell that right?) were killed by a savior. I spent 25 minutes making them. Hard work. All killed. That is too much money lost. Comeback unlikely.

The end.

I suspect the savior killing hero change resulted from the HK rush scare, but I cannot be sure. However there is an issue here that is larger than the overpowered this and overpowered that and etc. The issue is that a hero user is hated. Ex: I had 4k, kills to the enemies 1k kills. He says I'm overpowered. If i had defeated him with level 22 rines or perhaps stalkers, he would be OK with it. But with heroes, he's sees it differently. There is something fundamentally disturbing about seeing a small group of units kill a larger group. Think it through.

I suspect this game will probably never be able to use heroes because people have a fundamental dislike of seeing a small group of powerful units kill a larger group. Its not crayon's fault. I also suspect that ever since he buffed the heroes, he has been receiving a lot of heat for it.

If I had it my way, I would put the savior immunity back, but it will be interesting to see what all of the other players think about it.

If I were crayon, I would probably not want to deal with these hero issues any further. If I were crayon, I might just nerf the heroes entirely. Let this just be a game of teching mass units. A game for the unskilled. A game for noobs. A game for you?

To all of the readers of these posts, I would like to hear your thoughts.

dear crayon, as you wonderful creation climbs up to top 5 most played custom games....i would like u to consider me as one of you players when g4 televises ur work. your game is so intense and new stuff comes up every week on how to win....i am so glad i got into it as soon as u realesd it. i dont want to call my self a master but a pain in the ass player that can counter whatever crap players use to win.... a friend and i( all credit to him...he started it) came up with the ultimate counter of everything...but it has 2 major flaws. i have been called cheater many times over cause of this tactic but u put those units in there. gonna wait a week to see if this one spreads. then i'll say something. oh heros die? thats harsh....oh well...i guess its a control for hero rush

The HK is fine, its Queenfester (devil herself) thats OP. This thing eats what ever when ever it wants with super fast regen on the energy.