Indeed. No more cannon cheese. No more 2 hours match. No more 1500 words
typed.
By the way, I believe soon the database will increase from 1,300 words
to 4,000 words.
Isn't it the complete opposite? If you have restricted income wouldn't
it take longer to build up armies etc... But yeah if it works for
everyone then sure.
Not really. Less income means less defense. The players were abusing the income to spawn infinite cannons, and therefore never being defeated.
hey, i rly liked this map after playing it in US
however, i have some friends in the Latin American server i'd like to play this map with
could you publish it there or is there some way that it could be posted there?
thanks a bunch, such a fun map!
PM me with some login and password from a LA account, and I will publish there (using this account) like I did on EU (using vjeux account). By the way, I speak portuguese.
PM me with some login and password from a LA account, and I will publish there (using this account) like I did on EU (using vjeux account). By the way, I speak portuguese.
Is that not against the ToS? I ask because the way Blizzard deals with WoW account sharing is to just ban both parties.
Hey there, great map!
I always loved keyboard typing and the map just came down like a gift from the skies! ;)
Just got a few suggestions/thoughts:
- Feels like the only valid tactic starting out is to push income as much as you can.. and the only choice early on is
"how long should I wait until choosing to buy anything but income?"
Is there any way to promote players to also initially push units onto the enemy base. I also feel that the starting of the game is a bit slow, so promoting players with this kind of behaviour would remove that less attractive aspect of the game as well. (which could be a matter of preferrence)
I guess this could be achieved in different ways
- Spawning each unit give a small amount of income instead (or as well).
- An alternative way to gain income could be to spawn those units that the game tells you to spawn (which could happen now and then, like a special offer in a limited time period)
- If you upgrade income and just sent a unit within the last x seconds, you will automatically send a package of those units as well
- A better, simpler idea that is not as complicated as my possibly-overly complicated suggestions.
Still only played around 20 games so I'm still a 'Novice' ;) I may be wrong regarding some information!
Other random Ideas:
- Different/Other Game modes
- Ability to change a particular word that you may know that the enemy is writing (e.g. writing Perpendicular -> Perpandicular).. Possibly with a resource cost, and with a limitation to changing at most 1 letter. This way you could try to save your own units.. (The switched letter would have to be colored to show the word is misspelled).
- Powerups/Chests landing around the middle with 'hard' words that would give resources/benefits to the 1st player writing that word.
- A rpg mode that would let players upgrade individual unit types of their own, if they want to e.g. 'spec zealots' and concentrate on them mostly.
- 3 player mode? With the map being formed like a triangle dota-style?
PM me with some login and password from a LA account, and I will publish
there (using this account) like I did on EU (using vjeux account). By
the way, I speak portuguese.
Is that not against the ToS? I ask because the way Blizzard deals with
WoW account sharing is to just ban both parties.
If Blizzard would ban, they would have to ban all the map creators because lots of people are hosting US maps on Europe using someone's else account, and that includes Dota-Sotis and Nexus Wars.
You gave nice suggestions. I'm still thinking how to make the beggining less boring for the pro players. If I make it harder, the noobs would die too fast. If I increase the starting mineral, the players would spawn lots of units in the beggining and get rid of the noobs easily. I guess the best solution might be extra mineral that both teams can type and gets the mineral the team who typed faster. I'll try to implement something fun.
You gave nice suggestions. I'm still thinking how to make the beggining less boring for the pro players. If I make it harder, the noobs would die too fast. If I increase the starting mineral, the players would spawn lots of units in the beggining and get rid of the noobs easily. I guess the best solution might be extra mineral that both teams can type and gets the mineral the team who typed faster. I'll try to implement something fun.
I don't mind the start. It only takes two or three minutes before the action heats up (similar to actual SC2). Gives you some time to chill, etc. It's really important online when you need to communicate with your teammates, so I'm really glad a break time is implemented.
However, I have a *HUGE* problem with winners getting extra gas, for a number of reasons.
First, the rich get richer. Good players are given even more of an edge over bad players. Obviously the players with the most wins are the most experienced (and usually the best), but you get other advantages over that.
I have something like 60 wins, and now it's hard for me to lose (assuming I put in some minimum of effort). I am a pretty good player, but my girlfriend is not. She doesn't spend ANY resources and she doesn't look at the minimap and barely even moves the camera. Still, when she plays games on my account, she still wins most every game. I'd say she has at least a 70% win ratio.
Why is that? I am almost always the person in the game with the greatest number of wins. That means that experienced players who know how important it is to get on a good team naturally chase after being on my (her) team, whereas inexperienced players will flounder around or choose randomly. My team almost always outguns the other team massively, to the point where often I can just do nothing and my team will win the 3v2.
Secondly, the rich are encouraged to get even richer. Because having more gas is an advantage, you're actually given extra incentive to create imbalanced teams to blow the other team away and get your cheap win/gas. I would normally love to just play some fair games and go with the noobs and walk them through how to play, but until I had more than 40 gas, I was thinking about how much more efficient my macro would be with that extra gas, and how I needed wins. THANKFULLY that was changed to 10 mineral income max, so it's much more balanced, but until you have 21 wins, gas is extremely precious, and even after then it saves you up to 50 minerals.
Lastly (and possibly most important to you): I'm around 95% certain that the gas differential is the cause of the replay desyncs. The replay games don't sync with the server history of player score, so in every replay, every player starts with 50 mins and 0 gas. In the actual game history, the players had gas/minerals in order to get upgrades, but the replay thinks that they have 50/0. As soon as someone spends gas, the replay desyncs.
This is corroborated by some old replays I had that didn't desync (when everyone was newer and bought gas upgrade first and couldn't use all the gas, so the replay didn't desync). But my new replays all start with me upgrading minerals within the first 5 seconds, so the game thinks I have "-3" gas and realizes that there's an error and desyncs.
I mean, there could be another explanation, but that would seem to make sense. If you changed the score boards to offer no rewards, you'd also probably see less award abuse.
I noticed that air units cant collect the item, such as mutalisk ( Only tried one game)
But so far it looks good!
Also the items changes gameplay strategy a lot! 100 minerals is a ton!
Well, gas isn't a big thing in this map. For everything you still need minerals, and you can get gas income that gives you +50 gas very quickly. Also, there's now the vespene items. I have this gas/win system to encourage people to keep playing it. If more people start complaining, I will take it out.
The fact that players go to the most scored players team is part of the fun. It's a race! However, it doesn't mean the team will win.
I've tested what you said about replays getting desync. It was a very good guess. I took out the gas being loaded from the bank, but the replays were still getting desync. :(
I don't know what could be causing it. I just hope Blizzard can fix it soon, so we can have NWW tournaments.
If the initial gas would be causing the replays to desync, you can bet I would remove it right now.
Gas isn't as important as minerals, this is true, but gas is still extremely important because it is required to get more minerals.
Players with 21 gas or more can avoid upgrading gas until they have maxed out mineral upgrades. This means that they're upgrading minerals faster than new players. By 5 minutes in, everyone should have finished their upgrades an bought 1 gas income, but because the experienced players got minerals first, they maxed out earlier and have more income.
To simplify the model, assuming no income from typing, the player with 21 gas will have an extra 117 minerals that the new player can never make up (this is after buying gas income). Assuming 12 minerals a minute income from typing, the new player will be short 89 minerals. This is a fairly realistic model for gameplay in the first 3 minutes, since there aren't too many opponents.
Keep in mind that players with a LOT of wins, corresponding to effectively infinite gas (read: 100+ wins) never have to waste money on gas income and will have an extra 50 minerals on top of that, and possibly even more if the new player has to buy additional gas income.
These players have an extra 200+ mineral advantage late-game, in addition to a gas advantage.
This is added over all the other advantages that they have from the team-joining elements (good players will try to team up with them, good players won't box them onto the other team with forcefields), plus all the advantages that come with experience like knowing how all the upgrades work, knowing which units to build, etc.
I might not update NWW this week because my laptop is going to be repaired (overheating problems). First, I want to point out that there's a limit of gas that you can get in the beggining of the game (it's not infinite). As soon as Blizzard fixes the desync replays, I'm planning a NWW tournament, and for this tournament, the initial amount of vespene will be drastically limited (at about 5-10 vespene per player). During this period, if the players are enjoying the game in this way, I will keep it like that forever. :)
You gave nice suggestions. I'm still thinking how to make the beggining less boring for the pro players. If I make it harder, the noobs would die too fast. If I increase the starting mineral, the players would spawn lots of units in the beggining and get rid of the noobs easily. I guess the best solution might be extra mineral that both teams can type and gets the mineral the team who typed faster. I'll try to implement something fun.
Hey Rodrigo, maybe you can add something that checks for noobs who have never played, and it only shows the tutorial if its anybody's first game. That would be really nice, and you can make the tutorial a bit longer. Also, it might be cool if you added some new features like those chests that AloriahDotCom mentioned
-Hey, also, did you find/fix that bug I posted earlier, with the collosus having no word?
Not really. Less income means less defense. The players were abusing the income to spawn infinite cannons, and therefore never being defeated.
Haaha wow i never even thought about it in that way. LOL When are the tournaments?! I can't wait...
I'm waiting Blizzard to fix the desync replays first.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
Cant wait!
hey, i rly liked this map after playing it in US however, i have some friends in the Latin American server i'd like to play this map with could you publish it there or is there some way that it could be posted there? thanks a bunch, such a fun map!
@bhp255: Go
PM me with some login and password from a LA account, and I will publish there (using this account) like I did on EU (using vjeux account). By the way, I speak portuguese.
Is that not against the ToS? I ask because the way Blizzard deals with WoW account sharing is to just ban both parties.
Hey there, great map! I always loved keyboard typing and the map just came down like a gift from the skies! ;)
Just got a few suggestions/thoughts:
- Feels like the only valid tactic starting out is to push income as much as you can.. and the only choice early on is "how long should I wait until choosing to buy anything but income?" Is there any way to promote players to also initially push units onto the enemy base. I also feel that the starting of the game is a bit slow, so promoting players with this kind of behaviour would remove that less attractive aspect of the game as well. (which could be a matter of preferrence)
I guess this could be achieved in different ways
- Spawning each unit give a small amount of income instead (or as well).
- An alternative way to gain income could be to spawn those units that the game tells you to spawn (which could happen now and then, like a special offer in a limited time period)
- If you upgrade income and just sent a unit within the last x seconds, you will automatically send a package of those units as well
- A better, simpler idea that is not as complicated as my possibly-overly complicated suggestions.
Still only played around 20 games so I'm still a 'Novice' ;) I may be wrong regarding some information!
Other random Ideas:
- Different/Other Game modes - Ability to change a particular word that you may know that the enemy is writing (e.g. writing Perpendicular -> Perpandicular).. Possibly with a resource cost, and with a limitation to changing at most 1 letter. This way you could try to save your own units.. (The switched letter would have to be colored to show the word is misspelled).
- Powerups/Chests landing around the middle with 'hard' words that would give resources/benefits to the 1st player writing that word.
- A rpg mode that would let players upgrade individual unit types of their own, if they want to e.g. 'spec zealots' and concentrate on them mostly.
- 3 player mode? With the map being formed like a triangle dota-style?
Cheers!
If Blizzard would ban, they would have to ban all the map creators because lots of people are hosting US maps on Europe using someone's else account, and that includes Dota-Sotis and Nexus Wars.
@AloriahDotCom: Go
You gave nice suggestions. I'm still thinking how to make the beggining less boring for the pro players. If I make it harder, the noobs would die too fast. If I increase the starting mineral, the players would spawn lots of units in the beggining and get rid of the noobs easily. I guess the best solution might be extra mineral that both teams can type and gets the mineral the team who typed faster. I'll try to implement something fun.
Sounds good! nice. cant wait
New version released on US and EU!
(New feature: Items!).
po, legal entao se nao puder publicar na america latina, eu posso publicar por vc
@RodrigoAlves: Go
I don't mind the start. It only takes two or three minutes before the action heats up (similar to actual SC2). Gives you some time to chill, etc. It's really important online when you need to communicate with your teammates, so I'm really glad a break time is implemented.
However, I have a *HUGE* problem with winners getting extra gas, for a number of reasons.
First, the rich get richer. Good players are given even more of an edge over bad players. Obviously the players with the most wins are the most experienced (and usually the best), but you get other advantages over that.
I have something like 60 wins, and now it's hard for me to lose (assuming I put in some minimum of effort). I am a pretty good player, but my girlfriend is not. She doesn't spend ANY resources and she doesn't look at the minimap and barely even moves the camera. Still, when she plays games on my account, she still wins most every game. I'd say she has at least a 70% win ratio.
Why is that? I am almost always the person in the game with the greatest number of wins. That means that experienced players who know how important it is to get on a good team naturally chase after being on my (her) team, whereas inexperienced players will flounder around or choose randomly. My team almost always outguns the other team massively, to the point where often I can just do nothing and my team will win the 3v2.
Secondly, the rich are encouraged to get even richer. Because having more gas is an advantage, you're actually given extra incentive to create imbalanced teams to blow the other team away and get your cheap win/gas. I would normally love to just play some fair games and go with the noobs and walk them through how to play, but until I had more than 40 gas, I was thinking about how much more efficient my macro would be with that extra gas, and how I needed wins. THANKFULLY that was changed to 10 mineral income max, so it's much more balanced, but until you have 21 wins, gas is extremely precious, and even after then it saves you up to 50 minerals.
Lastly (and possibly most important to you): I'm around 95% certain that the gas differential is the cause of the replay desyncs. The replay games don't sync with the server history of player score, so in every replay, every player starts with 50 mins and 0 gas. In the actual game history, the players had gas/minerals in order to get upgrades, but the replay thinks that they have 50/0. As soon as someone spends gas, the replay desyncs.
This is corroborated by some old replays I had that didn't desync (when everyone was newer and bought gas upgrade first and couldn't use all the gas, so the replay didn't desync). But my new replays all start with me upgrading minerals within the first 5 seconds, so the game thinks I have "-3" gas and realizes that there's an error and desyncs.
I mean, there could be another explanation, but that would seem to make sense. If you changed the score boards to offer no rewards, you'd also probably see less award abuse.
Nice new feature bro!
I noticed that air units cant collect the item, such as mutalisk ( Only tried one game) But so far it looks good! Also the items changes gameplay strategy a lot! 100 minerals is a ton!
@Forbiddian: Go
Well, gas isn't a big thing in this map. For everything you still need minerals, and you can get gas income that gives you +50 gas very quickly. Also, there's now the vespene items. I have this gas/win system to encourage people to keep playing it. If more people start complaining, I will take it out.
The fact that players go to the most scored players team is part of the fun. It's a race! However, it doesn't mean the team will win.
I've tested what you said about replays getting desync. It was a very good guess. I took out the gas being loaded from the bank, but the replays were still getting desync. :( I don't know what could be causing it. I just hope Blizzard can fix it soon, so we can have NWW tournaments.
If the initial gas would be causing the replays to desync, you can bet I would remove it right now.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
Gas isn't as important as minerals, this is true, but gas is still extremely important because it is required to get more minerals.
Players with 21 gas or more can avoid upgrading gas until they have maxed out mineral upgrades. This means that they're upgrading minerals faster than new players. By 5 minutes in, everyone should have finished their upgrades an bought 1 gas income, but because the experienced players got minerals first, they maxed out earlier and have more income.
To simplify the model, assuming no income from typing, the player with 21 gas will have an extra 117 minerals that the new player can never make up (this is after buying gas income). Assuming 12 minerals a minute income from typing, the new player will be short 89 minerals. This is a fairly realistic model for gameplay in the first 3 minutes, since there aren't too many opponents.
Keep in mind that players with a LOT of wins, corresponding to effectively infinite gas (read: 100+ wins) never have to waste money on gas income and will have an extra 50 minerals on top of that, and possibly even more if the new player has to buy additional gas income.
These players have an extra 200+ mineral advantage late-game, in addition to a gas advantage.
This is added over all the other advantages that they have from the team-joining elements (good players will try to team up with them, good players won't box them onto the other team with forcefields), plus all the advantages that come with experience like knowing how all the upgrades work, knowing which units to build, etc.
@Forbiddian: Go
I might not update NWW this week because my laptop is going to be repaired (overheating problems). First, I want to point out that there's a limit of gas that you can get in the beggining of the game (it's not infinite). As soon as Blizzard fixes the desync replays, I'm planning a NWW tournament, and for this tournament, the initial amount of vespene will be drastically limited (at about 5-10 vespene per player). During this period, if the players are enjoying the game in this way, I will keep it like that forever. :)
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumHey Rodrigo, maybe you can add something that checks for noobs who have never played, and it only shows the tutorial if its anybody's first game. That would be really nice, and you can make the tutorial a bit longer. Also, it might be cool if you added some new features like those chests that AloriahDotCom mentioned
-Hey, also, did you find/fix that bug I posted earlier, with the collosus having no word?
Wow all these new words sound so... strange And you took out the starting gas per wins right? Interesting.