HQ has always been attackable, I'll try and change it. I think(Think being the main word) that I fixed the lobby.. Trying to get it uploaded so I can test with actual people and not computers
O, the new Brutallus hero seems to have a massive hit box (it is a large model... but still, takes up 1/3 of the platform...), and it doesn't seem to be invulnerable... Randomly there'll be random 'allies under attack' at the beginning of a larger wave (guessing its when to many creatures are having pathing issues), and randomly wtf own the Brut..
I still think this map is overtunned, still haven't managed to get past wave 27-28. Tried with heavy ArP units, high damage (stalkers), both with heavy stacks of empowered Zealots+Zerglings...
Was the armor value for everything tripled or something?
As Sgat8516 mentioned after waves 25 things get ridiculously hard, the worst one is the fast vikings where it creates a huge amount of lag and are basically impossible to hit.
THe brutalisk gets attacked by the high templars, the immortals, and I think the marauders.
The little +1 signs that show up have the colors wrong, red shows up at bottom of base, purple on left side etc.
Also there's no great anti-air unit, do you think you could make something for this? Attacking the mutalisks is a bit of pain too.
Also 3min cooldown for the 5s immortal thing is a bit much.
Thank you for making this map, it's sucked hours out of my life! :D
Also, the Brut gets attacked by Mr Brain eater, and killed mine 3 times on the final wave (FINALLY on EASY with a group of non-smuck players....).
But yea, the Viking wave in particular is kinda brutal, because they move fast and have very high armor (not much time to get any decent stacks of armor debuff up... unless all 4 players are going heavy armor reduction).
Not sure how complicated it is to add secondary effects to other units, but think if would be possible to have one of the garrisoned units add armor reduction/bypass to the tank and/or to garrisoned units? (with same limit 4 stacking). Beyond the 4 zealots and zerg, there's not really much difference in the units you choose (other than damage vs type, like Stalker or Ghost). Would definately bring a bit more realistic goal for killing this on normal/hard modes.
Viking speed was a mistake on my half, i must have hit 3 instead of 2, I reduced the brutalisks radius/size thing a ton(it was like 2.9.. made it 0.75) I'll be doing some balance tweeks as well, should have a version out today(hopefully) I'm going to add Hover to all air waves and make missile tank deal bonus damage to hover, this was the intended AA unit.
Viking speed was a mistake on my half, i must have hit 3 instead of 2, I reduced the brutalisks radius/size thing a ton(it was like 2.9.. made it 0.75) I'll be doing some balance tweeks as well, should have a version out today(hopefully) I'm going to add Hover to all air waves and make missile tank deal bonus damage to hover, this was the intended AA unit.
Excellent.
And on a smaller side note, Sir Moosealot and the other flavour named NPC on southeast corner (forgot name), somehow are attackable now :P
Note: I forgot to write some crap down so theres probally more than what I post here.
Edit: I fixed something important but I can't remeber for the life of me, I'll post it when I do D:
Waves:
25-30 have had their HP reduced by about 250 each, a few waves have had their movement speed reduced slightly as well.
Units:
Marine - Damage increased from 18 to 20.
Heros:
Brutalisk:
Now does 20% splash damage in a 2 radius.
Acidic decay now applys in an AOE at target location of 0.7 radius.
Hunter:
Energy Regen increased to 5/sec up from 4.32 a second.
Smoke Bomb only needs 2 Focus to use.
Burner:
Base damage increased by 8, no longer deals bonus damage to biological but slightly more to light now.
Infernal Conbustion Chamber no longer gives bonus to Biological but a better bonus to Light.
Infestor:
Bonus damage to Light and Heroic increased, no longer deals bonus damage to Psionic.
Missile Barrage damage increased by 2.5 damage per missile.
New hero: The Hybrid
The Hybrid is a heavy splash hero which can buff itself and do heavy AOE damage, The Hybrid does reduced damage to Air and Heroic levels but is very good vs. normal levels.
(I'll make those 2 guys invulnerable next version, too late to change or brash will blow a gasket!)
I like the fact you're adding new heroes. I haven't tried them out yet, but they definitely look cool.
Map definitely feels like it's increased in difficulty. Even on easy it's more difficult to kill mobs now. I'm still updating my strategy so I don't have any comments yet regarding imbalances.
I'm glad you fixed it so if the map is put on custom there's only 4 players, but I'd like if you could find a fix to make it always go into the defense mode. In custom players can choose any team color they want, and it's kinda annoying.
P.S. Love the new last wave! Having the bosses come out the one side basically guaranteed you wouldn't get to hit any of them, and they actually live longer than 15 seconds!
Should have the colour thing fixed today, even on custom(I hope)
Also, looking for someone to help get the map on the EU side! If you have the EU version and are willing to upload the updates and such for me please send me a PM.
The difficulty increase is mostly due to the cap on damage bonuses to tanks. Putting 10 zealots into a tank, made it do massive amounts of damage per shot, which made armor nearly irrelevant (30 armor reduction on a 50 damage attack is 20 dmg, 30 armor reduction on 130 damage, is still a 100 damage).
I've only managed to beat this on Easy twice, since those changes went through. And even those times, the most successful strat seemed to be Stalkers+Roach's, with 3 of the hero's being the Brut (armor reduction).
4-6 tanks with 1 z, +2-4 stalkers, completely own that first boss wave (ultralisks), since their high damage attack pierces the armor effectively.
Side note.. Are Missle tanks supposed to have 0 splash radius now? Since a lot of the secondary effects are applied through splash damage, 1 roach in a missle tank only applies negative armor debuff to the primary target of the tank... and not the cluster...
Would it be possible to upgrade the tank mode only of tanks? With perhaps a large increase in cost?
Tank mode upgrades = Speed (speed aura)/Missile Tank- Fire's missile's at its target, but no longer causes direct damage in the splash area of effect. The area of splash only applies debuffs from the units inside the missle tank.
Seige mode upgrades = Power Tank(damage aura)/Splash Tank- Reduces damage caused to the primary target of the tank, but increases the amount of damage inflicted upon all enemy units in the splash radius.
And on another side note..
If the idea of Power/Speed tanks remain, can they be changed so that selecting a group of tanks doesn't select them as well? (its just a name change now, and selecting a group to move to an area also selects them, taking up good firing position real estate... kinda prefer them out of the way since they can't attack...)
On the new 1.3 version I still see the color issue, but more importantly there's a bug where you don't get any gas
The new hero isn't that great either, it's very weak compared to the others, and if you choose it you're always lagging behind others in terms of upgrades/minerals
Fry Zerglings, Fry!
The electric tanks do rock though, I'm always a fan of direct damage abilities (no projectile travel time, so fewer wasted shots, like 5 missles launched, when first is kill shot).
I also like those modified waves :P Jumbo Firebats Inc :P (this is actually a good method, because the higher amounts of NPC's just cause additional rendering lag for half the players..).
Becuase of the way blizzard does stuff and the game setting thing I can't actually fix the colour issue until blizzard fixes their lobby stuff(where defense is the mode auto-matically chosen in the game settings) The mineral numbers are messed up becuase I can't actually lock player colours unless the host picks defense in the lobby.
I beat the game a few times today, It seems the Brutalisk is a bit too powerful to my liking, this is mostly from the fact that it gets +1 damage from a level up, which it dosen't seem like much, the Brutalisk gets 8x the effect from 1 damage then say the hunter.. I'll be making a new stat to replace power on the Brutalisk so he gets 0.25 damage per level, this would be more fair in that respect, I may also nerf Acidic Decay a little bit since it now applys in a splash.
Missile tanks still do have splash but they only apply debuffs to their single target, I did this so Siege tanks are used for this making a varity of tanks of then so mass missile tanks don't just own everything.
Don't really understand what you're exactually saying about the tnk upgrades(may just be becuase im exhaused!) but I do plan to add a 'splash' tank lik you decribed, that does minimal damage to its target but good damage to enemys in an AOE. Also, I plan on making Speed/Power tanks require to be sieged to give their aura, so they dont accidently move around when selecting stuff.
This is how I look at heros from best to worst right now:
1. Brutalisk - Was terrible then I over buffed, probally scale back acidic decay and damage gains from leveling
2. Hunter - This hero is hard to play, but I used him today and had over 1200 kills on him by the end of the game, you need a fine balance between snipe, grenade and smoke grenade to play him well, but when done right does he ever destory.
3. Destroyer - Gaze and Psi Storm own, I think he's about perfect balance wise right now, I want to make all heros below this point to be better.
4. Burner - I'm simply going to allow him to attack air, i buffed his splash radius slightly last version and I think allowing him to attack air would bring him up to par with Destroyer.
5. Hybrid - He's pretty good early game, but really lacks behinde quickly.. I plan to increase his damage per upgrade from 7 to 9 or 10, and increase his base attack speed, Plasma Discharge could use some tweeks as well.
6. Infestor - He used to be the best, now hes the worst. I don't really know what I can do to bring him up to par other then up all his stats a ton, which I will probally end up doing.. Think I will increase the range of Missile Barrage, reduce the cast time.. increase his base damage as well, I believe he isan't used because until you get his rocket laucher, he's just bad.
Im currently working on 2 more heros right now, but I want to get all heros somewhat close in balance before I add anymore right now
Roach and Enraged Roachs -armor debuff stacks up to 4 times(up from 3)
Baneling/Roach now give the tank 3/6% bonus attack speed while garrisoned.
Sentry/Stalker now give the tank +2/4 bonus damage while garrisoned.
Marauder/Ghost damage increased.
Note: the 3/6% and +2/4 are for their normal/enraged forms.
Tanks:
New Tank: Corrosion Tank.
Single target, no splash tank that deals damage to Heroic and Armored units. Causes a -5 armor debuff on targets, it ignores armor as well.
Heros:
Burner:
Can now attack air.
Infestor:
Base damage incresed by 25.
Rocket Launcher's attack speed increased by about 10%
Combat Mastery now increases the infestors damage based on the targets armor. EX, If the target has 30 armor the Infestor ignores that 30 armor and deals +30 damage to that target.
Brutalisk:
AOE splash damage reduced from 13% to 10%.
Acidic Decay now increases damage taken by 3%, down from 5%.
No longer gains Power while leveling, instead gains Rage, Rage increases damage by 0.25 per point.
Hybrid:
Base damage increased by 5.
Gains 10 damage per upgrade, up from 7.
Attack speed upgrade reduces the cooldown of Plasma Discharge by 1 second per level.
Hunter:
Attack speed upgrade fixed, he was gaining 7.5% attack speed per upgrade for some reason.
Shredder Grenade can now hit air.
New Hero: The Odin
Waves:
5 new waves! Game now has 36 waves total.
Killer Kitten damage reduced slightly, move speed slightly and HP slightly.
Burninator is now classed as Heroic and HP increased by a tiny amount.
Just played the latest 1.4 version and after beating all the enemies it stays there, there's no victory message.
Also I was thinking maybe add an enemy that makes people use their transports or something? It might have a stun attack or something, just a round that's challenging to people.
Liking the new changes so far. Although it seems pointless to upgrade the CC:
1.) Your killing capacity is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced unless you sell your gas.
2.) Even with a fully upgraded CC, it still dies within 15 seconds on the last waves (ignoring shield, since the
cooldown is ridiculously long).
3.) No one else helps you upgrade the CC, and if all 4 players spend their gas upgrading it, you lose because no one is able to kill the mobs.
Can you please buff the CC, or lower mob damage based on difficulty?
Lastly, do you think you could make it so you can sell heroes back to where you purchase them from? I accidentally clicked on Infester when choosing my hero, and ended up leaving the game immediately after (felt kind of bad, but I really don't like Infester).
Thanks Cyrileo and Brashnard, keep up the good work on the best Custom Map on SC2!
I noticed the new voting thing doesn't seem to work well. I click 'NO' and it just stays there and the vote doesn't register, then you get the 15s message and the wave doesn't start.
However if I click yes, it does register but the 15s message still shows and the wave starts.
The only way I've been able to beat this game is on easy with some players that actually use their gas to upgrade the command center.
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There was a mess up with the garrisoned buff, i fixed it.. working on the lobby
@Cyrileo: Go
1.2 still has the 5player part, and the HQ is still attackable directly by anyone :(
HQ has always been attackable, I'll try and change it. I think(Think being the main word) that I fixed the lobby.. Trying to get it uploaded so I can test with actual people and not computers
@Cyrileo: Go
O, the new Brutallus hero seems to have a massive hit box (it is a large model... but still, takes up 1/3 of the platform...), and it doesn't seem to be invulnerable... Randomly there'll be random 'allies under attack' at the beginning of a larger wave (guessing its when to many creatures are having pathing issues), and randomly wtf own the Brut..
I still think this map is overtunned, still haven't managed to get past wave 27-28. Tried with heavy ArP units, high damage (stalkers), both with heavy stacks of empowered Zealots+Zerglings... Was the armor value for everything tripled or something?
Just joined to post a few things,
As Sgat8516 mentioned after waves 25 things get ridiculously hard, the worst one is the fast vikings where it creates a huge amount of lag and are basically impossible to hit.
THe brutalisk gets attacked by the high templars, the immortals, and I think the marauders.
The little +1 signs that show up have the colors wrong, red shows up at bottom of base, purple on left side etc.
Also there's no great anti-air unit, do you think you could make something for this? Attacking the mutalisks is a bit of pain too.
Also 3min cooldown for the 5s immortal thing is a bit much.
Thank you for making this map, it's sucked hours out of my life! :D
@marcxdid: Go
Also, the Brut gets attacked by Mr Brain eater, and killed mine 3 times on the final wave (FINALLY on EASY with a group of non-smuck players....).
But yea, the Viking wave in particular is kinda brutal, because they move fast and have very high armor (not much time to get any decent stacks of armor debuff up... unless all 4 players are going heavy armor reduction).
Not sure how complicated it is to add secondary effects to other units, but think if would be possible to have one of the garrisoned units add armor reduction/bypass to the tank and/or to garrisoned units? (with same limit 4 stacking). Beyond the 4 zealots and zerg, there's not really much difference in the units you choose (other than damage vs type, like Stalker or Ghost). Would definately bring a bit more realistic goal for killing this on normal/hard modes.
Viking speed was a mistake on my half, i must have hit 3 instead of 2, I reduced the brutalisks radius/size thing a ton(it was like 2.9.. made it 0.75) I'll be doing some balance tweeks as well, should have a version out today(hopefully) I'm going to add Hover to all air waves and make missile tank deal bonus damage to hover, this was the intended AA unit.
Excellent. And on a smaller side note, Sir Moosealot and the other flavour named NPC on southeast corner (forgot name), somehow are attackable now :P
Version 1.2(Uploaded later today)
Note: I forgot to write some crap down so theres probally more than what I post here. Edit: I fixed something important but I can't remeber for the life of me, I'll post it when I do D:
Waves:
25-30 have had their HP reduced by about 250 each, a few waves have had their movement speed reduced slightly as well.
Units:
Marine - Damage increased from 18 to 20.
Heros:
Brutalisk: Now does 20% splash damage in a 2 radius. Acidic decay now applys in an AOE at target location of 0.7 radius.
Hunter: Energy Regen increased to 5/sec up from 4.32 a second. Smoke Bomb only needs 2 Focus to use.
Burner: Base damage increased by 8, no longer deals bonus damage to biological but slightly more to light now. Infernal Conbustion Chamber no longer gives bonus to Biological but a better bonus to Light.
Infestor: Bonus damage to Light and Heroic increased, no longer deals bonus damage to Psionic. Missile Barrage damage increased by 2.5 damage per missile.
New hero: The Hybrid
The Hybrid is a heavy splash hero which can buff itself and do heavy AOE damage, The Hybrid does reduced damage to Air and Heroic levels but is very good vs. normal levels.
(I'll make those 2 guys invulnerable next version, too late to change or brash will blow a gasket!)
I like the fact you're adding new heroes. I haven't tried them out yet, but they definitely look cool.
Map definitely feels like it's increased in difficulty. Even on easy it's more difficult to kill mobs now. I'm still updating my strategy so I don't have any comments yet regarding imbalances.
I'm glad you fixed it so if the map is put on custom there's only 4 players, but I'd like if you could find a fix to make it always go into the defense mode. In custom players can choose any team color they want, and it's kinda annoying.
P.S. Love the new last wave! Having the bosses come out the one side basically guaranteed you wouldn't get to hit any of them, and they actually live longer than 15 seconds!
Should have the colour thing fixed today, even on custom(I hope)
Also, looking for someone to help get the map on the EU side! If you have the EU version and are willing to upload the updates and such for me please send me a PM.
The difficulty increase is mostly due to the cap on damage bonuses to tanks. Putting 10 zealots into a tank, made it do massive amounts of damage per shot, which made armor nearly irrelevant (30 armor reduction on a 50 damage attack is 20 dmg, 30 armor reduction on 130 damage, is still a 100 damage).
I've only managed to beat this on Easy twice, since those changes went through. And even those times, the most successful strat seemed to be Stalkers+Roach's, with 3 of the hero's being the Brut (armor reduction). 4-6 tanks with 1 z, +2-4 stalkers, completely own that first boss wave (ultralisks), since their high damage attack pierces the armor effectively.
Side note.. Are Missle tanks supposed to have 0 splash radius now? Since a lot of the secondary effects are applied through splash damage, 1 roach in a missle tank only applies negative armor debuff to the primary target of the tank... and not the cluster...
Would it be possible to upgrade the tank mode only of tanks? With perhaps a large increase in cost? Tank mode upgrades = Speed (speed aura)/Missile Tank- Fire's missile's at its target, but no longer causes direct damage in the splash area of effect. The area of splash only applies debuffs from the units inside the missle tank. Seige mode upgrades = Power Tank(damage aura)/Splash Tank- Reduces damage caused to the primary target of the tank, but increases the amount of damage inflicted upon all enemy units in the splash radius.
And on another side note.. If the idea of Power/Speed tanks remain, can they be changed so that selecting a group of tanks doesn't select them as well? (its just a name change now, and selecting a group to move to an area also selects them, taking up good firing position real estate... kinda prefer them out of the way since they can't attack...)
On the new 1.3 version I still see the color issue, but more importantly there's a bug where you don't get any gas
The new hero isn't that great either, it's very weak compared to the others, and if you choose it you're always lagging behind others in terms of upgrades/minerals
Thanks for another great update Cyrileo :)
Fry Zerglings, Fry! The electric tanks do rock though, I'm always a fan of direct damage abilities (no projectile travel time, so fewer wasted shots, like 5 missles launched, when first is kill shot).
I also like those modified waves :P Jumbo Firebats Inc :P (this is actually a good method, because the higher amounts of NPC's just cause additional rendering lag for half the players..).
Becuase of the way blizzard does stuff and the game setting thing I can't actually fix the colour issue until blizzard fixes their lobby stuff(where defense is the mode auto-matically chosen in the game settings) The mineral numbers are messed up becuase I can't actually lock player colours unless the host picks defense in the lobby.
I beat the game a few times today, It seems the Brutalisk is a bit too powerful to my liking, this is mostly from the fact that it gets +1 damage from a level up, which it dosen't seem like much, the Brutalisk gets 8x the effect from 1 damage then say the hunter.. I'll be making a new stat to replace power on the Brutalisk so he gets 0.25 damage per level, this would be more fair in that respect, I may also nerf Acidic Decay a little bit since it now applys in a splash.
Missile tanks still do have splash but they only apply debuffs to their single target, I did this so Siege tanks are used for this making a varity of tanks of then so mass missile tanks don't just own everything.
Don't really understand what you're exactually saying about the tnk upgrades(may just be becuase im exhaused!) but I do plan to add a 'splash' tank lik you decribed, that does minimal damage to its target but good damage to enemys in an AOE. Also, I plan on making Speed/Power tanks require to be sieged to give their aura, so they dont accidently move around when selecting stuff.
This is how I look at heros from best to worst right now:
1. Brutalisk - Was terrible then I over buffed, probally scale back acidic decay and damage gains from leveling 2. Hunter - This hero is hard to play, but I used him today and had over 1200 kills on him by the end of the game, you need a fine balance between snipe, grenade and smoke grenade to play him well, but when done right does he ever destory. 3. Destroyer - Gaze and Psi Storm own, I think he's about perfect balance wise right now, I want to make all heros below this point to be better. 4. Burner - I'm simply going to allow him to attack air, i buffed his splash radius slightly last version and I think allowing him to attack air would bring him up to par with Destroyer. 5. Hybrid - He's pretty good early game, but really lacks behinde quickly.. I plan to increase his damage per upgrade from 7 to 9 or 10, and increase his base attack speed, Plasma Discharge could use some tweeks as well. 6. Infestor - He used to be the best, now hes the worst. I don't really know what I can do to bring him up to par other then up all his stats a ton, which I will probally end up doing.. Think I will increase the range of Missile Barrage, reduce the cast time.. increase his base damage as well, I believe he isan't used because until you get his rocket laucher, he's just bad.
Im currently working on 2 more heros right now, but I want to get all heros somewhat close in balance before I add anymore right now
V1.4 - Uploaded later today.
General:
For the Swarm upgrade added to the HQ.
Gas cost of several upgrades on HQ reduced.
Units:
Roach and Enraged Roachs -armor debuff stacks up to 4 times(up from 3)
Baneling/Roach now give the tank 3/6% bonus attack speed while garrisoned.
Sentry/Stalker now give the tank +2/4 bonus damage while garrisoned.
Marauder/Ghost damage increased.
Tanks: New Tank: Corrosion Tank. Single target, no splash tank that deals damage to Heroic and Armored units. Causes a -5 armor debuff on targets, it ignores armor as well.
Heros:
Burner:
Can now attack air.
Infestor:
Base damage incresed by 25.
Rocket Launcher's attack speed increased by about 10%
Combat Mastery now increases the infestors damage based on the targets armor. EX, If the target has 30 armor the Infestor ignores that 30 armor and deals +30 damage to that target.
Brutalisk:
AOE splash damage reduced from 13% to 10%.
Acidic Decay now increases damage taken by 3%, down from 5%.
No longer gains Power while leveling, instead gains Rage, Rage increases damage by 0.25 per point.
Hybrid:
Base damage increased by 5.
Gains 10 damage per upgrade, up from 7.
Attack speed upgrade reduces the cooldown of Plasma Discharge by 1 second per level.
Hunter:
Attack speed upgrade fixed, he was gaining 7.5% attack speed per upgrade for some reason.
Shredder Grenade can now hit air.
New Hero: The Odin
Waves:
5 new waves! Game now has 36 waves total.
Killer Kitten damage reduced slightly, move speed slightly and HP slightly.
Burninator is now classed as Heroic and HP increased by a tiny amount.
Just played the latest 1.4 version and after beating all the enemies it stays there, there's no victory message.
Also I was thinking maybe add an enemy that makes people use their transports or something? It might have a stun attack or something, just a round that's challenging to people.
There is a wave where you use your transports/move, wave 31. When I kill my 2 incoming adds, I blink my tanks clockwise to get them caught up :P
Liking the new changes so far. Although it seems pointless to upgrade the CC:
1.) Your killing capacity is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced unless you sell your gas.
2.) Even with a fully upgraded CC, it still dies within 15 seconds on the last waves (ignoring shield, since the cooldown is ridiculously long).
3.) No one else helps you upgrade the CC, and if all 4 players spend their gas upgrading it, you lose because no one is able to kill the mobs.
Can you please buff the CC, or lower mob damage based on difficulty?
Lastly, do you think you could make it so you can sell heroes back to where you purchase them from? I accidentally clicked on Infester when choosing my hero, and ended up leaving the game immediately after (felt kind of bad, but I really don't like Infester).
Thanks Cyrileo and Brashnard, keep up the good work on the best Custom Map on SC2!
I noticed the new voting thing doesn't seem to work well. I click 'NO' and it just stays there and the vote doesn't register, then you get the 15s message and the wave doesn't start.
However if I click yes, it does register but the 15s message still shows and the wave starts.
The only way I've been able to beat this game is on easy with some players that actually use their gas to upgrade the command center.