Also 2 things about the bosses:
Wave 40 boss is Immortal (no HP, and kept him running for about 5min, and didn't die).
Boss kill rewards shouldn't be only for the person that did the final 5k dmg, when everyone else did the other 50-75k... Needs to be a shared reward.
I have to ask, did you play on easy? this map is not supposed to be "completed", you are supposed to beat the other team by doing better than them at killing the monsters, but eventually one or the other should die.
Thanks for the info though, Ill take a look at the last boos.
No one ever wants to play anything other than easy..... Besides, 4:5 times, the games end on like wave 4.... or worse, the goalie has no clue what he's doing, and he lets his 4 adds spawn and run directly to the temple.....and kill others turrets...
Another bug though, on any of the boss waves (from what i've noticed), when the alert goes out for 'the temple is aiding xx team', that team gets retarded amounts of minerals... Not sure if its setup to be like 5x 1 units worth of minerals when that goes out or what (with bosses being worth 200-400?), but getting 2k minerals per player (x5) on the enemy team, on wave 20, because 1 Ultralisk slipped through........... is kinda bad.
I got that on like wave 20 bosses one time, when other team let the bosses through. Built like 5 high end turrets, and just alt-tabbed for 20 rounds....
Could it be possible to add some scaling/sharing of boss minerals?
Getting a boss to 25% (having gone through all his shield, half his health) only to have middle or bottom kill it, and keep all the minerals is...saddening
I do all the work and i dont even get 1 mineral for it? GG
Other than this, i find it an awesome..if VERY LENGTHY map. Some units need their health slightly nerfed, and their speed buffed alot. I'm looking at you level 20 SlowpokeLisk
Played easy mode. When the west side leaked to 50 it launched a nuke... and it hit the east side (bottom player). I'm pretty sure the east side isn't supposed to be penalized for the west side leaking?
When the east side leaked to 50, another nuke launched and hit the east side once again (bottom player again).
Question is, did your team leak in that round also? The temple doesn't neccessarily have to nuke on every leak, but it could. You could be at 5, and them at 50, leak 1 and get nuked, while they leak 20, and lose 3 turrets.
Nice work Veridian :)
Although, Implosion's are still doing double dmg to what they say...
Normal ground unit dmg is 1280 / 2 sec attack speed, but it has 2 attacks (IE hits for 1280 2x every 2 sec), so its 1280 dps for ground units (3840 for air, plus splash).
Give a hardcap of 3-5 minute till the next spawn (whatever feels right in internal testing) because i saw someone make a huge maze of t1 towers with a few higher tiers. that's normal... but then he started JUGGLING the mobs, making them past like 10+ and me and my friend were practically SLEEPING.
The guy didnt have the dps to down them in any length of early times, he didnt even JUST juggle around his mid towers. It was just painfully slow...
Also, If Purp leaves, disable his spawn, that's already in the game, now the suggestion is: If green leaves and purp is still there, do not disable green's spawn. If Red/Blue leaves but not Green or purp, do not disable the spawns.
Reason: More Income which allows to handle next boss waves without fallling back to gimmicks. May be fine for easy/normal. But Hard/Unpossible, you kinda NEED that income.
Juggling is always a problem with maps such as these. If the AI automatically attacked anything new that was put in their way, they'd tear down someone's base everytime they build a turret in mid wave (Like early waves where its close especially).
Maybe give incentive for units to be killed early? With a steady decline down to near nothing.
Like killed within 15 sec of spawn = 200% minerals, within 30sec = 100%, 45 sec = 50%, 60sec =0%
Players leaving is definately an issue, I don't think I've ever had a game that ended by natural causes (Temple killed last of their turrets), its always someone leaving. Wouldn't only killing 1/4 of a wave, and the round ending bonus cover any possible leaks? even with nukes...
Question is, did your team leak in that round also? The temple doesn't
neccessarily have to nuke on every leak, but it could. You could be at
5, and them at 50, leak 1 and get nuked, while they leak 20, and lose 3
turrets.
Nice work Veridian :)
Although, Implosion's are still doing double dmg to what they say...
Normal ground unit dmg is 1280 / 2 sec attack speed, but it has 2
attacks (IE hits for 1280 2x every 2 sec), so its 1280 dps for ground
units (3840 for air, plus splash).
That doesn't sound right. That basically means that you can win or lose through nothing but pure blind luck, which defeats the entire purpose of the defense. I'm pretty sure the nuke only launches at 50, and it's supposed to hit the side that hit 50. It's not; it appears to always hit the east bottom no matter which side leaked to 50.
I played this map a few more times and I've come to the conclusion that there really really [b]really[/b] needs to be a high armor or high regeneration wave. People build these enormous mazes that take 3-5 minutes for the waves to walk through... and they don't kill anything. so they make their maze even longer. It makes the game move really slowly, and that makes people leave out of boredom. Mixing in high armor/regen waves and telling people about it discourages this kind of mazing and forces people to actually tech. It doesn't need to be super high armor, but even 5 armor or some amount of regen would completely kill these builds.
Juggling is always a problem with maps such as these. If the AI automatically attacked anything new that was put in their way, they'd tear down someone's base everytime they build a turret in mid wave (Like early waves where its close especially). Maybe give incentive for units to be killed early? With a steady decline down to near nothing. Like killed within 15 sec of spawn = 200% minerals, within 30sec = 100%, 45 sec = 50%, 60sec =0%
Like i said, my solution counters Juggling Pretty well, unless the ones doing it is like..a top player. Like, there's a timer when you kill them all that says the mobs will appear in 20 secs or so. Now if after 5 minutes after that timer (Just to make sure they reach Green/purp or something by that time), they summon more adds. everybody will be somewhat kept entertained, the juggler can continue juggling, it just becomes even LESS effective because of more unit pool.
Also, the whole "Death by nuke" never works. There was this game i was in, 3 of the east side left, the fourth (green) one was checking my insane defense as nothing got through... And what he made at that point? He destroyed his whole maze. He just made 3 minerals turrets ALL OVER east side.
That was at wave 32ish. Guess what? He hit 100% Nuke by wave 45 and the temple was STILL only destroying at best 5 towers a wave. He had nearly a hundred. We made it to 50 and we got victorius and he still had about 40 towers up. 100% nuke...it wouldve been 150% if it couldve.
Played easy mode. When the west side leaked to 50 it launched a nuke... and it hit the east side (bottom player). I'm pretty sure the east side isn't supposed to be penalized for the west side leaking?
this has been fixed in 4.17
Along with :
Boss does more damage to nuke meter / retribution now
Implosion Tower Fixed
Anti Juggle Code (will probably need to add more)
Enemy info panels fixed
Also removed "Light" wave since no one does extra damage to that type and added a regen wave instead, with a low amount of regen to make it harder for crappy towers to work
Also removed "Light" wave since no one does extra damage to that type and added a regen wave instead, with a low amount of regen to make it harder for crappy towers to work
...Anti Juggle Code? What did you do for that?
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Also 2 things about the bosses: Wave 40 boss is Immortal (no HP, and kept him running for about 5min, and didn't die). Boss kill rewards shouldn't be only for the person that did the final 5k dmg, when everyone else did the other 50-75k... Needs to be a shared reward.
@Sgat8516:
I have to ask, did you play on easy? this map is not supposed to be "completed", you are supposed to beat the other team by doing better than them at killing the monsters, but eventually one or the other should die.
Thanks for the info though, Ill take a look at the last boos.
Appreciate the input.
@VeridianEntropy: Go
No one ever wants to play anything other than easy..... Besides, 4:5 times, the games end on like wave 4.... or worse, the goalie has no clue what he's doing, and he lets his 4 adds spawn and run directly to the temple.....and kill others turrets...
Another bug though, on any of the boss waves (from what i've noticed), when the alert goes out for 'the temple is aiding xx team', that team gets retarded amounts of minerals... Not sure if its setup to be like 5x 1 units worth of minerals when that goes out or what (with bosses being worth 200-400?), but getting 2k minerals per player (x5) on the enemy team, on wave 20, because 1 Ultralisk slipped through........... is kinda bad.
I got that on like wave 20 bosses one time, when other team let the bosses through. Built like 5 high end turrets, and just alt-tabbed for 20 rounds....
Could it be possible to add some scaling/sharing of boss minerals?
Getting a boss to 25% (having gone through all his shield, half his health) only to have middle or bottom kill it, and keep all the minerals is...saddening I do all the work and i dont even get 1 mineral for it? GG
Other than this, i find it an awesome..if VERY LENGTHY map. Some units need their health slightly nerfed, and their speed buffed alot. I'm looking at you level 20 SlowpokeLisk
@Sgat8516:
Thanks for this insight on the boss waves giving other teams too much, this has been fixed as of 4.14
@chaoslux:
I added the boss mineral sharing in this mornirng's release, 4.14
Just played on US battlenet, version 4.14
Played easy mode. When the west side leaked to 50 it launched a nuke... and it hit the east side (bottom player). I'm pretty sure the east side isn't supposed to be penalized for the west side leaking?
When the east side leaked to 50, another nuke launched and hit the east side once again (bottom player again).
Lost the game because of this.
http://img638.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010082915005.jpg/ Pretty sure there's a few to extra minerals floating around by the end of the game :P
Question is, did your team leak in that round also? The temple doesn't neccessarily have to nuke on every leak, but it could. You could be at 5, and them at 50, leak 1 and get nuked, while they leak 20, and lose 3 turrets.
Nice work Veridian :)
Although, Implosion's are still doing double dmg to what they say...
Normal ground unit dmg is 1280 / 2 sec attack speed, but it has 2 attacks (IE hits for 1280 2x every 2 sec), so its 1280 dps for ground units (3840 for air, plus splash).
I love West Bottom's Defense.
Tyty, was covering that side from middle as well :P
This sounds good, i like TD Maps but the map isnt on the Eu server..
@Sgat8516: Go
Actually, I can confirm that now..
Nukes from the West side leaks are hitting East side :( (So far, only seen it hit the bottom player on East..).
Other suggestions:
Give a hardcap of 3-5 minute till the next spawn (whatever feels right in internal testing) because i saw someone make a huge maze of t1 towers with a few higher tiers. that's normal... but then he started JUGGLING the mobs, making them past like 10+ and me and my friend were practically SLEEPING. The guy didnt have the dps to down them in any length of early times, he didnt even JUST juggle around his mid towers. It was just painfully slow...
Also, If Purp leaves, disable his spawn, that's already in the game, now the suggestion is: If green leaves and purp is still there, do not disable green's spawn. If Red/Blue leaves but not Green or purp, do not disable the spawns. Reason: More Income which allows to handle next boss waves without fallling back to gimmicks. May be fine for easy/normal. But Hard/Unpossible, you kinda NEED that income.
@chaoslux: Go
Juggling is always a problem with maps such as these. If the AI automatically attacked anything new that was put in their way, they'd tear down someone's base everytime they build a turret in mid wave (Like early waves where its close especially). Maybe give incentive for units to be killed early? With a steady decline down to near nothing. Like killed within 15 sec of spawn = 200% minerals, within 30sec = 100%, 45 sec = 50%, 60sec =0%
Players leaving is definately an issue, I don't think I've ever had a game that ended by natural causes (Temple killed last of their turrets), its always someone leaving. Wouldn't only killing 1/4 of a wave, and the round ending bonus cover any possible leaks? even with nukes...
That doesn't sound right. That basically means that you can win or lose through nothing but pure blind luck, which defeats the entire purpose of the defense. I'm pretty sure the nuke only launches at 50, and it's supposed to hit the side that hit 50. It's not; it appears to always hit the east bottom no matter which side leaked to 50.
I played this map a few more times and I've come to the conclusion that there really really [b]really[/b] needs to be a high armor or high regeneration wave. People build these enormous mazes that take 3-5 minutes for the waves to walk through... and they don't kill anything. so they make their maze even longer. It makes the game move really slowly, and that makes people leave out of boredom. Mixing in high armor/regen waves and telling people about it discourages this kind of mazing and forces people to actually tech. It doesn't need to be super high armor, but even 5 armor or some amount of regen would completely kill these builds.
Like i said, my solution counters Juggling Pretty well, unless the ones doing it is like..a top player. Like, there's a timer when you kill them all that says the mobs will appear in 20 secs or so. Now if after 5 minutes after that timer (Just to make sure they reach Green/purp or something by that time), they summon more adds. everybody will be somewhat kept entertained, the juggler can continue juggling, it just becomes even LESS effective because of more unit pool.
Also, the whole "Death by nuke" never works. There was this game i was in, 3 of the east side left, the fourth (green) one was checking my insane defense as nothing got through... And what he made at that point? He destroyed his whole maze. He just made 3 minerals turrets ALL OVER east side. That was at wave 32ish. Guess what? He hit 100% Nuke by wave 45 and the temple was STILL only destroying at best 5 towers a wave. He had nearly a hundred. We made it to 50 and we got victorius and he still had about 40 towers up. 100% nuke...it wouldve been 150% if it couldve.
Played easy mode. When the west side leaked to 50 it launched a nuke... and it hit the east side (bottom player). I'm pretty sure the east side isn't supposed to be penalized for the west side leaking?
this has been fixed in 4.17
Along with :
Boss does more damage to nuke meter / retribution now
Implosion Tower Fixed
Anti Juggle Code (will probably need to add more)
Enemy info panels fixed
Also removed "Light" wave since no one does extra damage to that type and added a regen wave instead, with a low amount of regen to make it harder for crappy towers to work
Sad to see it die off, but ehh :( Had to be done :(
Also, in case you didn't get that email, units flip out after being 'blocked in', go hostile, then stand there... not pathing to exit: http://rapidshare.com/files/415946102/Retribution_TD.SC2Replay
...Anti Juggle Code? What did you do for that?