SC2Mapster

Quote from TheAlmaity: Go

@deleted_4551290: Go

1.) So that upgrading vehicles is more than just a health buff and so that there is some kind of limitation in the game 2.) What do you want in them? Items shops? Sorry, no items in this map last time i checked. There's just nothing to put in there. Altough it could maybe use some doodads or buildings just so that it doesnt feel so empty. 3.) Yea, troops are a bit too strong... 4.) Im pretty sure its still only 1bnet game mode and that kerrigan will be activateable only if team 2 is empty, so it wont be bad for popularity but actually the opposite. Last time i checked that was the whole idea behind it...

1 yes but still it seems too large 2 thats what i mean geez... 3 agreed 4 she said its only for practice and teamplay training didnt mention (least i dont think that she did) anything bout team 2 leaving also next rounds on me. your paying

Quote from DSHunter: Go

- Overall, I'm quite sceptical in regard to the Mules. It feels to me like they are just too readily available. At the very least, I suggest cutting down their life span to equal the cooldown of their calldown so you can't have 2 at the same time. Personally, I'd go even further than that and say make them only last 10-20 seconds. - This one is pure personal preference, but I'd sort of prefer to have my main vehicle bound to F1 and the SCV to F2. I'd like to hear other people's opinions, though.

I wanted a way to repair in the field, but not in combat. Right now the mules are simply not useable against another player because most weapons have splash. Against the AI though, as you probably saw, they are likely too effective. I'm not happy with how they work right now, but they serve their purpose; avoid you needing to return to base to repair.

Possible solutions are making them simply die if any enemy is close to them. This is rather clumsy and no doubt confusing to new players, though. Another alternative is increasing their attack priority, though then skilled players could just kite the AI units around while their own AI units clean them up without reprisal. I don't like either solution, but I don't want them in combat either.

Yeah, the Kerrigan mode is basically if blue team consists of 5 computer players, they will be removed and replaced with Kerrigan, along with turning team 2 into something more... zergy. Anyway it's not ready yet.

I uploaded a version with a really ultra basic AI. Killing an AI player yields no reward and they don't purchase equipment yet. It's a work in progress.

Quote from yukaboy: Go

When can we expect it to be on (US) servers?

When I've finished making sure everything works and added appropriate ways to combat the popularity system (single/small team methods of play).

Got a gamebreaking bug just now. I played as wraith (I guess this could also happen as a different unit don't know) and some time into the game my wraith got somehow added to the creepwaveorders, meaning it would automatically move as if it was a creep every few seconds to the next creepwaypoint. Hope you can squash this bug.

Hold on I think it happened right at the start of the game, even while your screen is locked in your base. So somehow the map-initialisation screwed up or something.

Yeah that was me making the AI. Due to the way the game is set up I have to be on b.net to play properly. It should only happen for AI players now.

@Eiviyn: Go

alright xD

• I would strongly recommend that you go over your tooltips once again cause often you just don't see important information, like how long will be the cd of the ability you want to get?, is that weapon a turret?(Ion Cannon Control/Nuclear Silo are turrets but tooltip doesn't say so), do you need to stop moving to use that weapon?(looking at you ventorini-beam), what gets upgraded/downgraded(speed/mainweapon/armor...) if you upgrade your vehicle, etc... it should be crispy clear what you get for your money

• would be cool if you could write the F1, F2 thingie into the tooltip of the View-switch ability and also if you could fix that you select a mule instead of your scv with F1(guess this one is easy just don't classify them as workers right?)

• also is there a reason all vehicles get slower the higher tech you go? I think a consistent speed across the techlevels would be much better for planning out some builds (kitebuilds for example)

• i think that the tier4 vehicles (tank/thor) are a tad too big, for my taste anyways. i think a normal thor is big enough, if you get too big your unit takes like 1/5th of the screen and i have a widescreen xD there are guys without one out there

• could you make players on the minimap easier to spot like you did in the first catalyst with the mappingthingie?

• i guess you know already but you have to fix the preview, you see the hangars and stuff while you are at it it would be best to explain the basics on the loading screen

• you should paint the walls around your hangar unbuildable, currently one can build 2*2 buildings up there :P

• the biocreeps you can build are totally unusable atm for several reasons:

1-some buildings cost minerals instead of energy to deploy

2-if the player dies the buildings shouldn't explode it is enough to halt production

3-creeps have to walk on the correct path currently they run across the map

4-bios should benefit from the autoupgrades just like the computerbios otherwise you have to pump vespene/minerals just to not make them utterly useless later

5-would be cool if you could give the ghosts some extra flavour by enabling them to snipe like in nexus wars

6-ghosts/medics should start out with full or near full energy after all they won't get a rest to build it up

• imo warp-drive should channel for 8 seconds not 6 AND be cancelled while in combat like the recall in the old catalyst, mobility is good but too readily available ways out of combat are bad

• another little thing you should change the tooltip at the vehicle-selection from "must slow down to fire" to "must slow down to fire main-weapon" and the corresponing tooltips for the other 2 ... cause that could be misleading for new players

• yeah like i mentioned already state in your tooltips exactly how much % dmgreduction smoke bomb gives, how long cd's are, how long a slow/disable/buff or whatever lasts etc and noone knows if all the dmg-redution abilities of the tank are stackable or not

alright thats it for now and i gotta say i love this map already especially the way you handled the control-nodes :)

Energy currently is kinda useless it would be far better if all abilities would cost energy including warpdrive and the healtowers would use their own energybar, that way you would suddenly be able to do energyrelated stuff like drainweapons/abilities, energyregenerators etc. It would also be more of a decision to use an ability or not, currently(especially with mules) it is simply the best and most effective thing to just spam the abilities available and that is kinda blegh.( ret-/protpaladins in wow got a new resource for the same reason cuz spamming stuff that is of cd is boring and requires little decisions made by the player hence facerolladin xD)

If you jump to your scv with F1 your camera first moves to your hercules and then to your hangar, this doesn't happen if you switch views with the switch-ability.

Also the fortress is too easily snipeable by even 1 player, it should be moved further into the base, get autoupgrades just like the biocreeps, and the Ibiks Cannon shoud be immune to point defence turrets (1 player with 2 point-defence can basically cancel out the Ibiks cannon and snipe the fortress all on his own.

The tooltips for the towers should be more consistend, meaning sometimes you state that a weapon is dodgeable or not/immune to point defence but why not do that for all weapons so a new player knows immediately whats going on with which weapontype?

Feels like i'm the only guy posting here atm QQ

Anyways blue team players start in the red base and that is unhealthy for them hehe

Only initialspawn is screwed up upon death they respawn correctly in the blue base

There is a lot of new stuff in the new version. The svc inside your machine idea is very original. However you lose a lot of time to upgrade and build new weapons this way. You should improve this so you can purchase and upgrade weaphons faster while in combat.

I'll keep playing this new version. I feel there's still lots of thinks I haven't tried out yet.

@Eiviyn: Go

Good job Eiviyn!

You've impressed me a lot, my favoryte thing on the map is how you made the unit spawn. A ship is coming, and deliver it's cargo. Wonderful!

Okay, here's some more feedback from my end. I've played 3 matches against other players so far. Focused on playing Tank, so that's where I'm going to suggest some ability changes as well.

I think the major bugs (blue players spawning in red base, some production buildings costing minerals to deploy, no win/lose trigger) are well known right now and probably already on the way to getting fixed. There's some minor things, though mostly balance-related, which I'd like to mention instead.

- Just a small reminder: Not being able to use Juggernaut or Mules while in siege mode seems kind of arbitrary to me considering that all other abilities are still usable.

- The sensor tower (in deck view) doesn't have a recycle option.

- The main attack of the tier 1 tank displays a range of 6; the Gauss Turret says it has a range of 6 as well. However, when I click to attack an enemy, my vehicle starts attacking with its main gun only. I still need to approach the target a little further for the Gauss Turret to kick in. This might be related to the turret attacking from the 'center' of your vehicle instead of the front.

- I find the Assisted Thrust ability to be nigh useless without self-target. I suggest letting players use it on their own vehicle. Even then, I think I'd still prefer Battering Ram.

- Entomb has got to be even more worthless though. Or maybe I'm just not creative enough, but from what I've seen, it does you more harm than good in any given situation (bar the rare scenario where you are ambushed and waiting for 1 or 2 teammates to come to your rescue). I suggest to 1) remove or severely shorten the preparation time for the spell and 2) add a beneficial effect for the player using it, such as all enemies inside the ice block either receiving damage or being slowed for a couple of seconds after the ability finishes.

- And finally, Mules. The more I play, the more I dislike the entire concept. With the way things are now, there's pretty much no reason not to call down your Mule as soon as the cooldown is through. It creates (in my opinion) an unnecessary need for micromanagement, plus it lets you heal in combat as long as there's no AoE damage (which infantry, for instance, doesn't have).

What I suggest is replacing the Mule system with a simple out-of-combat heal, similar to Healing Salves in DOTA. Make it an instant ability that

- repairs 100% of your hit points over 10/15/20 seconds (whichever you feel is most balanced),

- is interrupted if you are attacked,

- is limited by either a cooldown of 30/45/60 seconds or a short preparation time before the repairing actually starts,

- prevents you from attacking during the repair process and

- (optionally) prevents you from moving and/or using abilities during the process.

Lastly, if the 'replacement' method for placable turrets (Sentry Gun etc.) does not work or is too complex to implement just like that, could you at least give the main vehicle a command that destroys all of the player's placed turrets on the battlefield? Having to select my turrets to recycle them sadly kills the entire archetype for me, just like it did in Cityscape.

• gotta say i love the replacement for mules DSHunter suggested here, wanted to post something similar just now xD

• due to the way the map is set up a player with a flying vehicle can hide it by flying out of the actual battleground, at least on the top, bottom and the right side of the map, i tried it you aren't even visible on the minimap, maybe move the no fly zones a little further in there, the left side works fine though maybe even a little to far in there

• like i posted earlier energy should be used for abilities to force the player to make important decisions on what to use when, energy shouldn't become an annoyance for building turrets/baracks cuz you already paid for it so you should be able to use it whenever you feel like it

• So i suggest cutting energycost for turrets/barracks and instead use it for actual abilities cuz they shouldn't be spammed everytime available and by introducing an energyregenerator for the hangar that takes population-limit you can still allow players the choice to go for a heavy ability-build that especially with the mechs offensive potential and the tanks insane defensive choices could be quite powerful but at the cost of other weaponsystems. choice is good annoyance not :P + it already takes care with balance cuz without restrictions for tanks defensive abilities he is way op

some feedback on turrets

• energycost is to high(should be cut) especially in the beginning you can't do too much, i feel turrets should be readily available cuz you gimped your combatability drastically to deploy your turrets so they should be ready anytime, after all weaponusers don't have to pay for using what they already invested in, they just show up and roflstomp you.

• i can understand that you added energycost to turrets to maybe prevent respamming of destroyed turrets constantly but you could counteract that better by either:

- debuffing freshly build turrets with a -50% attackspeeddebuff called initialisation or something that fades slowly over 10-15 seconds

-or add a cd to the deployability after a tower gets killed by the enemy, if you can build more than one of the same sort you should be able to do so it just slowly recharges the charge for the next tower in the background

• also like i suggested with unitspawn-buildings, turrets shouldn't explode upon playerdeath just get halted to do anything(should visualize this by putting electronic-arc-thingies on disabled buildings) cuz having to rebuild the whole thing everytime you die is extremely frustrating and forces you to play bob the builder, combined with deployment taking forever and quite high energy cost for deployment it kills the dynamic catalyst2 holds for other players and drives me personally away from going turretguy

• i feel that especially the artillery turret takes waaay to long to deploy, now i understand that he is quite powerful but waiting forever for a 300hp building that can be basically oneshotted to deploy is kinda frustrating

• the artillery-core costs way to much supply, you basically gimp yourself to be able to build this oneshotable tower and due to its bigass gridsize you are really constricted as to where you can build it

• also when you place the artillery it is shown way bigger then the actual thing

• the hotkey for building turrets [A] doesn't work a is for attack

• would be cool if you could display the numers of turrets of one sort you can and have build inside the button for that turret like with charges (2/5) but isn't a must

• would be neat for immersion if when building a turret your vehicle first throws the "build kit" to target location like the raven does in the game when building a turret and then playing the buildinganimation for the turret

on a personal note: you may have noticed i post quite a lot here xD but you know i don't do it to annoy you eiviyn but because i want to help you make an awesome map a bit more awesome so it stays on page 1 forever like dota or nexus wars. and with the upcoming blizzard dota you will have even more competition for a solid playerbase thats why the first release should blow new players away instantly with awesomeness ^.- first impressions are the most important thing to a new player if its meh he likely won't ever come back, catalyst2 has the potential to become really amazing but it's not quite there yet

huh, noone is playing it??

@yukaboy: Go

do you know which project it is?

@yukaboy: Go

thanks