Teleport TD: Your basic TD except each tower is capable of "teleporting" a distance of say 6. Every X amount of minutes or rounds, there's a disaster or something, in the shape of a meteor strike that impacts your area, and they impact with enough force to kill any tower in 1 hit, and any secondary/nearby towers receive 75% damage and are placed in critical, and WILL burn out. There is no way to repair towers.
Basically, When The Meteor Strike Event happens, it is between rounds, you get X seconds before they start impacting your map, so you have to teleport your towers out of harms way, while trying to keep a semblance of a maze going. Each tower can only teleport once during the 'impact event'. Each impact meteor creates a doodad that is basically a wall, so it CAN help supplement your wall in the next few rounds. During each Event, If you get screwed over and the meteor impacts create an unpassable wall, you are given the ability to sacrifice one of your towers, reclaiming 50% of the cost to build that tower(including 50% upgrade costs). If you do not make a hole in your wall, the computers will attack and clear their own way out until they are able to get clear pathing.
The Meteor Strike Event will display a graphic on the square that will be impacted, which happens perhaps 8 seconds later, and displays a new impact location every 5 seconds... First Meteor Event has 3 impacts, the second has 4, and each new Event increases the Impact Count. A Challenge to keep as many towers alive as possible, and hoping a random meteor won't destroy a big portion of your maze, AFTER you've teleported some buildings around... heheh.
With each new Meteor Event, all previous meteors on your field of play are destroyed and you are again able to teleport your buildings.
Due to the inherent difficulty and no doubt GIANT HOLES in your wall/defenses as the game goes on, the Mobs of units must pass through your maze more than once, maybe 3 times, otherwise its over much too soon.
No offense, but it sounds like a bad idea. This is the type of map that frustrates people. Random != Good.
so playing the same map with the same results is fun right? random = fun and interesting for more than one play. If i can just predict where everything is going to happen, not sure why I want to play it anymore.
No offense, but it sounds like a bad idea. This is the type of map that
frustrates people. Random != Good.
so playing the same map with the same results is fun right? random = fun
and interesting for more than one play. If i can just predict where
everything is going to happen, not sure why I want to play it anymore.
Hence the main reason I never cared for most td's.... prolly the main reason I liked gem td so much ...
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Seriously, TD maps are a type of map made often. Because they are really, really easy to make. But I dont see why people play them. Place towers, watch as the little zerglings get zapped. Get money. Place more towers. Fun!
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so playing the same map with the same results is fun right? random = fun and interesting for more than one play. If i can just predict where everything is going to happen, not sure why I want to play it anymore.
It's clear my intention wasn't conveyed. There is clearly a difference between something like having the elements you can use be random and having random shit falling on your base. Certainly not all randomness is bad.
hes not... a LOT of people agree with him... I do too... TDs to me are the most boring of the custom maps. [thats not to say I wont try new ones, for example Im looking forward to trying yours] but I wouldn't call him ignorant for thinking that at all, when its a common thought of TDs
And his idea was that you can move the towers, thus it dosnt just destroy your base, plus those meteors stay on the ground, which add another level to the game. I dont think its that bad... and random like that is better than "oh instead of this tower I can place this tower" thats not "fun" random. [granted fun is relative to the person playing]
hes not... a LOT of people agree with him... I do too... TDs to me are the most boring of the custom maps. [thats not to say I wont try new ones, for example Im looking forward to trying yours] but I wouldn't call him ignorant for thinking that at all, when its a common thought of TDs
There is an expression; "when you assume you make an ass of yourself." You presume to know why I called him ignorant but you couldn't be more wrong. Refer to this;
Seriously, TD maps are a type of map made often. Because they are really, really easy to make. But I dont see why people play them. Place towers, watch as the little zerglings get zapped. Get money. Place more towers. Fun!
This is why he is ignorant. I don't care if he finds them boring, that is his personal opinion.
But, he is marginalizing the work that goes into making a quality TD. Easily more than some other common map types. Just because you can shit out a bad TD easier than other common map types, does not mean that TDs are really, really, easy to make.
He is also marginalizing the gameplay. The same argument above is applied here. He is right for bad TDs. He is wrong for good ones. He is dead wrong for quality ones.
And his idea was that you can move the towers, thus it dosnt just destroy your base, plus those meteors stay on the ground, which add another level to the game. I dont think its that bad... and random like that is better than "oh instead of this tower I can place this tower" thats not "fun" random. [granted fun is relative to the person playing]
Heh. It's good that you realize this is subjective. That's because you're in the minority on this one. I can assure you more people would find "random tower" idea more fun than "random shit falling" idea.
There is an expression; "when you assume you make an ass of yourself." You presume to know why I called him ignorant but you couldn't be more wrong. Refer to this;
I actually almost commented on that part of his statement as well actually, but to have that conversation would require more typing than I care to do on such a small subject =P . To put it very very basically, I Dont think thats an ignorant remark to make. TDs are easy to make... very. HOWEVER, yes the more quality you put into it, the better... but once you add so much to it, add so many "interesting" and "new" things that make it so much more advanced than just a normal TD... it really isnt just a TD so much anymore. And if it is...then its not really that hard to make
TD- Places towers to kill mobs that come [yes very "dumbed" definition but as I said this is just to say basic stuff dont want to drag my thoughts on to long]
If your td is solly based around towers, and mobs, even with twists, it IS easy to make, it may take "time" but easy indeed. However, if you do more to it, so thats its not just plan simple like that, then its not really a "TD" its something more.
[and anyway can come and say "well any map is easy to make if you think making tons of towers is easy"] but that arrgument would drag this on past the point of where I care to go =P
To make it clear, I think what your making Karawasa would fall into that "more than just a td" (which is why its one of the few ive ever wanted to try once you get it out there). but what he was commenting on, was just your normal definition "tower defence"
and I dont think either of us have real statisitcs to throw out there of how many sc2 players "really" like Tds a lot. but I can tell you, adding such "random" things as the OP said.. would get people like me and others that dont like that simple play of normal TD's to give them a second look, as it wouldnt just be "Hey these turrets for case A or these for case B and you win".
That's an interesting response. I must admit that I like the sound of the "more than just a TD" description. Would you also say that DotA is "more than just an AoS" though? If so, then I agree with you. It is important to distinguish between them. Just like you would between a budget car and a luxury car.
I also appreciate the distinction made for Element TD. I hope it lives up to your expectations.
It sounds very interesting, But random meteor locations + only 1 teleport for towers per impact event is a very bad idea IMO. Teleport either needs a short cd (5s) or 3-5 charges (maybe more depending on how many meteors fall during the event). Otherwise players will skillfully teleport away from 1 meteor, not have a teleport left for that tower, and have it destroyed by the next meteor because of random spawning.
It might add some spice if a meteor fell during waves too, it would add completely new ways of tower mazing.. Like instead of a 1x5 wall you might do a 3x5 wall to prevent leaking when you have to teleport. Just imagining it, i can think of quite a few ways to maze that would be really cool for this.
If you want any help with it, I'd love to get in on it. I like terraining and love triggering. Not too good with data, but have no problem doing the grunt work.
Zelda, I agree for the most part... Its just that no one puts spin on the concept, thus almost all TD's are just mass produced dribble. But by adding in this meteor idea, its adding more action to a strategy based game. Don't be so bias towards them though.
Karawasa, I've only heard that expression said as "When you assume, It makes an 'ass' out of both 'u' and 'me' ".
Make all meteors display their impact location all at once, and you only get X amount of seconds before they begin the impact event, to teleport your towers. Still only 1 teleport per tower, think fast or lose some towers. ;)
Event 1 Begins with 5 impact locations(instead of 3), Event 2 with 7(+2 per event instead of +1), so on and so forth(to offset the fact that you know where all of them will land immediately).
Impact Event after every 2 rounds.
Instead of the meteors disappearing at the beginning of the next event, give the meteors a lifespan of 2 events, IE: when Event 2 begins, the meteors from Event 1 do not disappear. When Event 3 begins, the meteors from event 1 disappear and meteors from Event 2 do not. Basically you get 5 possible holes in your wall at event 3, 7 possibles holes at event 4, 9 possible holes at event 5, etc. etc.
Instead of having every meteor from every event cause AOE kill-damage, have only 1 such meteor do so, and clearly make the distinction so that people know exactly where this 'kill meteor' is going to land so they can clear a 3x3 area of towers. BONUS: This meteor has some kind of radiation that can infect mobs and drain a certain amount of life over a period of time. This radiation only lasts so long while the unit is outside the radiation zone. These irradiated meteors disappear at the next Impact Event, instead of 2 Impact Events after birth.
Going to be brainstorming some more ideas up. Keep the critique coming, and please try not to hijack too much? :P hehe.
@Karasawa
Maybe you are right, maybe the original idea was a little too tough... but I definitely want the randomness in there.
Thanks for your critique, made me rethink some things and I'm liking this edit a bit more.
@msntbn
Ya, that was the whole point... throw in ALOT of randomness in there, but make the playing field big enough so that at event 3 it wouldn't destroy you completely and your screwed... also why I suggested mobs must traverse your "maze" several times, again due to the randomness inherent to these Impact Events. I do however like the idea of a random meteor impacting on your maze while playing, haha.
I'll send you a PM aswell, msntbn
EDIT: haha, maybe I will use this idea, then :P Let this space be a place to shoot some critique/ideas my way.
Meteors.... Someone should make a Sim City map. Meteors are awesome. Tornadoes are too.
EDIT: Whether you enjoy the TD genre is irrelevant. It's like disqualifying an entire ethnicity when judging a person's attractiveness in a beauty pageant.
Didn't read everything in your last post, but randomness can be realy good. They key here is that said random event is equal for all players. This way you actualy get to see the difference in skill between the players.
If the random event might be different for each player, the game looses its appeal, since this type of randomness only takes away alot of skill from the game, and bases it more on luck.
This is the second TD of this type of randomness I have heard of, and I like it. The other one is Split TD. Which has a realy nice concept, but could be polished to become a realy exciting TD.
Element TD is abit different type of TD, since there is no random factor from game to game. But here aswell you have alot of skill requirement. This is what realy attracts me as to these games.
The main difference between these two is that element td require more planning and tactics skills together with experience. While the random type require more skill in quick thinking and the ability to act and adjust to different situations at a higher pace.
The main difference between these two is that element td require more planning and tactics skills together with experience. While the random type require more skill in quick thinking and the ability to act and adjust to different situations at a higher pace.
In general, yes I agree. Though I would point out that ETD can do both. The element (random) and creep (chaos) randomness produces the second type of gameplay you mentioned.
msntbn and myself are starting to work on this now. Hopefully we can create something that's fun and new. We are going with the name Downfall TD. Originally the focus was going to be more on the Teleporting towers, but it seems that the Impact Events are making their presence known, haha. Teleportation is still in the game, however!
Thanks again for critique/ideas, it helped make this into something more.
<<reply 2776
I really like this idea, and im willing to help however i can, i good with buttons and ability binding and i can do a lot with triggers.
Just a suggestion, for simplicity reason, have this "radiation" meteor simply make creep. Then make creep drain life and unit speed for enemys, that way you dont have to spend forever making an aura effect to do that.
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Teleport TD: Your basic TD except each tower is capable of "teleporting" a distance of say 6. Every X amount of minutes or rounds, there's a disaster or something, in the shape of a meteor strike that impacts your area, and they impact with enough force to kill any tower in 1 hit, and any secondary/nearby towers receive 75% damage and are placed in critical, and WILL burn out. There is no way to repair towers.
Basically, When The Meteor Strike Event happens, it is between rounds, you get X seconds before they start impacting your map, so you have to teleport your towers out of harms way, while trying to keep a semblance of a maze going. Each tower can only teleport once during the 'impact event'. Each impact meteor creates a doodad that is basically a wall, so it CAN help supplement your wall in the next few rounds. During each Event, If you get screwed over and the meteor impacts create an unpassable wall, you are given the ability to sacrifice one of your towers, reclaiming 50% of the cost to build that tower(including 50% upgrade costs). If you do not make a hole in your wall, the computers will attack and clear their own way out until they are able to get clear pathing.
The Meteor Strike Event will display a graphic on the square that will be impacted, which happens perhaps 8 seconds later, and displays a new impact location every 5 seconds... First Meteor Event has 3 impacts, the second has 4, and each new Event increases the Impact Count. A Challenge to keep as many towers alive as possible, and hoping a random meteor won't destroy a big portion of your maze, AFTER you've teleported some buildings around... heheh.
With each new Meteor Event, all previous meteors on your field of play are destroyed and you are again able to teleport your buildings.
Due to the inherent difficulty and no doubt GIANT HOLES in your wall/defenses as the game goes on, the Mobs of units must pass through your maze more than once, maybe 3 times, otherwise its over much too soon.
Umm... that might be fun, maybe?
No offense, but it sounds like a bad idea. This is the type of map that frustrates people. Random != Good.
so playing the same map with the same results is fun right? random = fun and interesting for more than one play. If i can just predict where everything is going to happen, not sure why I want to play it anymore.
Hence the main reason I never cared for most td's.... prolly the main reason I liked gem td so much ...
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Curse PremiumTD's are all boring. Dont make a TD.
Seriously, TD maps are a type of map made often. Because they are really, really easy to make. But I dont see why people play them. Place towers, watch as the little zerglings get zapped. Get money. Place more towers. Fun!
It's clear my intention wasn't conveyed. There is clearly a difference between something like having the elements you can use be random and having random shit falling on your base. Certainly not all randomness is bad.
@SouLCarveRR: Go
You're quoting me but it's because I didn't word it right. See above. You should try Element TD if you want a TD with variety.
@zeldarules28: Go
You're ignorant.
@zeldarules28: Go
hes not... a LOT of people agree with him... I do too... TDs to me are the most boring of the custom maps. [thats not to say I wont try new ones, for example Im looking forward to trying yours] but I wouldn't call him ignorant for thinking that at all, when its a common thought of TDs
And his idea was that you can move the towers, thus it dosnt just destroy your base, plus those meteors stay on the ground, which add another level to the game. I dont think its that bad... and random like that is better than "oh instead of this tower I can place this tower" thats not "fun" random. [granted fun is relative to the person playing]
There is an expression; "when you assume you make an ass of yourself." You presume to know why I called him ignorant but you couldn't be more wrong. Refer to this;
This is why he is ignorant. I don't care if he finds them boring, that is his personal opinion.
But, he is marginalizing the work that goes into making a quality TD. Easily more than some other common map types. Just because you can shit out a bad TD easier than other common map types, does not mean that TDs are really, really, easy to make.
He is also marginalizing the gameplay. The same argument above is applied here. He is right for bad TDs. He is wrong for good ones. He is dead wrong for quality ones.
Heh. It's good that you realize this is subjective. That's because you're in the minority on this one. I can assure you more people would find "random tower" idea more fun than "random shit falling" idea.
I actually almost commented on that part of his statement as well actually, but to have that conversation would require more typing than I care to do on such a small subject =P . To put it very very basically, I Dont think thats an ignorant remark to make. TDs are easy to make... very. HOWEVER, yes the more quality you put into it, the better... but once you add so much to it, add so many "interesting" and "new" things that make it so much more advanced than just a normal TD... it really isnt just a TD so much anymore. And if it is...then its not really that hard to make
TD- Places towers to kill mobs that come [yes very "dumbed" definition but as I said this is just to say basic stuff dont want to drag my thoughts on to long]
If your td is solly based around towers, and mobs, even with twists, it IS easy to make, it may take "time" but easy indeed. However, if you do more to it, so thats its not just plan simple like that, then its not really a "TD" its something more.
[and anyway can come and say "well any map is easy to make if you think making tons of towers is easy"] but that arrgument would drag this on past the point of where I care to go =P
To make it clear, I think what your making Karawasa would fall into that "more than just a td" (which is why its one of the few ive ever wanted to try once you get it out there). but what he was commenting on, was just your normal definition "tower defence"
and I dont think either of us have real statisitcs to throw out there of how many sc2 players "really" like Tds a lot. but I can tell you, adding such "random" things as the OP said.. would get people like me and others that dont like that simple play of normal TD's to give them a second look, as it wouldnt just be "Hey these turrets for case A or these for case B and you win".
@Molsterr: Go
That's an interesting response. I must admit that I like the sound of the "more than just a TD" description. Would you also say that DotA is "more than just an AoS" though? If so, then I agree with you. It is important to distinguish between them. Just like you would between a budget car and a luxury car.
I also appreciate the distinction made for Element TD. I hope it lives up to your expectations.
It sounds very interesting, But random meteor locations + only 1 teleport for towers per impact event is a very bad idea IMO. Teleport either needs a short cd (5s) or 3-5 charges (maybe more depending on how many meteors fall during the event). Otherwise players will skillfully teleport away from 1 meteor, not have a teleport left for that tower, and have it destroyed by the next meteor because of random spawning.
It might add some spice if a meteor fell during waves too, it would add completely new ways of tower mazing.. Like instead of a 1x5 wall you might do a 3x5 wall to prevent leaking when you have to teleport. Just imagining it, i can think of quite a few ways to maze that would be really cool for this.
If you want any help with it, I'd love to get in on it. I like terraining and love triggering. Not too good with data, but have no problem doing the grunt work.
Zelda, I agree for the most part... Its just that no one puts spin on the concept, thus almost all TD's are just mass produced dribble. But by adding in this meteor idea, its adding more action to a strategy based game. Don't be so bias towards them though.
Karawasa, I've only heard that expression said as "When you assume, It makes an 'ass' out of both 'u' and 'me' ".
@msntbn: Go
OK, slight tweaking.
Make all meteors display their impact location all at once, and you only get X amount of seconds before they begin the impact event, to teleport your towers. Still only 1 teleport per tower, think fast or lose some towers. ;)
Event 1 Begins with 5 impact locations(instead of 3), Event 2 with 7(+2 per event instead of +1), so on and so forth(to offset the fact that you know where all of them will land immediately).
Impact Event after every 2 rounds.
Instead of the meteors disappearing at the beginning of the next event, give the meteors a lifespan of 2 events, IE: when Event 2 begins, the meteors from Event 1 do not disappear. When Event 3 begins, the meteors from event 1 disappear and meteors from Event 2 do not. Basically you get 5 possible holes in your wall at event 3, 7 possibles holes at event 4, 9 possible holes at event 5, etc. etc.
Instead of having every meteor from every event cause AOE kill-damage, have only 1 such meteor do so, and clearly make the distinction so that people know exactly where this 'kill meteor' is going to land so they can clear a 3x3 area of towers. BONUS: This meteor has some kind of radiation that can infect mobs and drain a certain amount of life over a period of time. This radiation only lasts so long while the unit is outside the radiation zone. These irradiated meteors disappear at the next Impact Event, instead of 2 Impact Events after birth.
Going to be brainstorming some more ideas up. Keep the critique coming, and please try not to hijack too much? :P hehe.
@Karasawa
Maybe you are right, maybe the original idea was a little too tough... but I definitely want the randomness in there.
Thanks for your critique, made me rethink some things and I'm liking this edit a bit more.
@msntbn
Ya, that was the whole point... throw in ALOT of randomness in there, but make the playing field big enough so that at event 3 it wouldn't destroy you completely and your screwed... also why I suggested mobs must traverse your "maze" several times, again due to the randomness inherent to these Impact Events. I do however like the idea of a random meteor impacting on your maze while playing, haha.
I'll send you a PM aswell, msntbn
EDIT: haha, maybe I will use this idea, then :P Let this space be a place to shoot some critique/ideas my way.
@BorgDragon: Go
Much better!
Meteors.... Someone should make a Sim City map. Meteors are awesome. Tornadoes are too.
EDIT: Whether you enjoy the TD genre is irrelevant. It's like disqualifying an entire ethnicity when judging a person's attractiveness in a beauty pageant.
Didn't read everything in your last post, but randomness can be realy good. They key here is that said random event is equal for all players. This way you actualy get to see the difference in skill between the players. If the random event might be different for each player, the game looses its appeal, since this type of randomness only takes away alot of skill from the game, and bases it more on luck.
This is the second TD of this type of randomness I have heard of, and I like it. The other one is Split TD. Which has a realy nice concept, but could be polished to become a realy exciting TD.
Element TD is abit different type of TD, since there is no random factor from game to game. But here aswell you have alot of skill requirement. This is what realy attracts me as to these games.
The main difference between these two is that element td require more planning and tactics skills together with experience. While the random type require more skill in quick thinking and the ability to act and adjust to different situations at a higher pace.
In general, yes I agree. Though I would point out that ETD can do both. The element (random) and creep (chaos) randomness produces the second type of gameplay you mentioned.
msntbn and myself are starting to work on this now. Hopefully we can create something that's fun and new. We are going with the name Downfall TD. Originally the focus was going to be more on the Teleporting towers, but it seems that the Impact Events are making their presence known, haha. Teleportation is still in the game, however!
Thanks again for critique/ideas, it helped make this into something more.
<<reply 2776 I really like this idea, and im willing to help however i can, i good with buttons and ability binding and i can do a lot with triggers.
Just a suggestion, for simplicity reason, have this "radiation" meteor simply make creep. Then make creep drain life and unit speed for enemys, that way you dont have to spend forever making an aura effect to do that.