SC2Mapster

Eu doesn't seem to be updated :/

Guys, the EU publisher has some issues with the files so he can't update until we figure out how to solve them. The NA version was last updated 08-25. I'm planning a new update this weekend, with several bug fixes.

So, let's use the time left to brainstorm and report more bugs ;-)

@thomulf: Go I suggest you try the version here on mapster for now.

Just throwing some more suggestions out there...

1. My Tychus idea - can be split to be either a Hero unit for Raynor's Raiders or turned into a "Heavy Marine" unit that replaces either the Marauder/Firebat or the Reaper (either way, flashlight needs to be turned off because it's useless in melee games).

2. Queen of Blades as a call-in like the Hyperion for the Jorgumand brood, she disappears underground after having her 'fun' (short time limit + she walks, this faction doesn't have much to begin with so this would give it something else to work with).

3. Immortal/Reaver removal as a choice - instead is directed by what faction you chose (Aiur faction gets Reavers while other ones get Immortals).

4. Same thing as above but with Dragoons/Stalkers (I believe you already did this, just putting it out there).

5. Zergling 'Raptors' get Hunterling pounce and are affected by Metabolic Boost upgrade, can also jump up cliffs if they get the Baneling Nest upgrade.

6. Aberration Deep Tunnel ability needs fixed; either is on autocast or works like the Stalker's blink (they all move up at same time instead of having to click like fucking crazy).

7. Infested Hercules has to use it's land animation in order to drop off troops (it's OP as fuck otherwise as it can stream unlimited troops rapidly across any size map).

8. Infested faction gets a melee attack upgrade at engineering bay so Infested can improve their melee units attack (for example, Aberrations, Infested Terrans, and Infested Banshee's Broodlings).

9. New Infestor ability called "Infestation" that replaces their Infested Marine one; they shoot their tentacle at a Terran building, and after a certain balanced amount of time, turn it infested and to the Zerg faction if the Infestor is not killed. It is a MUCH more risky/costly in energy (should cost like 150 energy) way of getting Infested units (but also way more fun). The Infested building automatically produces FREE units like the Swarm Host's "cocoons". If done to a Supply Depot, Infested Terrans spawn periodically. Infested Barracks? Infested Marines. Infested CC? Infested SCV's. You get the jist of it. During the "Infestation" period, the building is UNABLE to lift off (however the building can be saved by the owner if he lifts it off to begin with).

Quote from SoulFilcher: Go

I have this problem with SC timeline I don't want to add dead people lol. Some players asked for old BW heroes like Duke and now (believe it or not its the first time) Tychus. It's hard to define an exact point in SC timeline but I don't want to add a mess of heroes, and I don't want to add the important ones, because you know, the important heroes don't go up front dying all the time. And nerfing THE Queen of Blades to the point she's usable without even a time restriction like the Hyperion means she won't be the Queen of Blades after all, sorry, no Queen of Blades, no Zeratul and no Odin. Heroes like Warfield or the Purifier are already far more powerful than they should for a melee match.

The timeline is screwed anyway. As a direct example against your statement, arbiters and their judicator-caste pilots were wiped out entirely during the fall of aiur. The same faction that gets those also gets overload for phoenices, while the fall was several years before even the earliest phoenix prototype was conceived. Meanwhile your inclusion of the tempest places the mod sometime after raynor's invasion of char.

Quote from Velancious: Go

3. Immortal/Reaver removal as a choice - instead is directed by what faction you chose (Aiur faction gets Reavers while other ones get Immortals).

Immortals are upgraded dragoons and are more fitting for the honor-bound warriors of aiur. Reavers were civilian manufacturing plants repurposed to deploying bomb drones, and don't have any shared history with the Nerazim (DTs). If SoulFilcher wants to do this, we can make up reasons for either faction getting either unit though.

@Photoloss: Go

Well, what I mean is; I'm following the timeline associated with each faction. Aiur did not have Immortals; Immortals came after the fall of Aiur when Dragoons were re-purposed to make them (as no more Dragoons could be made). Thus, Immortals should stay away from the Aiur faction as they have no direct history with Aiur. Although it does make a lot of sense why they would use the Immortals, I'm just stating the history doesn't support it.

I thought Reavers then would do better to replace the Immortals in that department since before the fall of Aiur, they were actually used in their armies. Other than that, I think we should do it your way (if SoulFlincher doesn't mind ignoring the history of the units).

Zealots, Immortals, and Dragoons would make an excellent army actually... The Zealots absorb damage while Dragoons sit way in back, protected by the meatier Immortals.

@Velancious: Go I will think about the Tychus/Marine idea. Reavers/Immortals will stay as they are, no lore to link them to those tribes. I'll try to tweak and fix Deep Tunnel. 9 seems like overdoing something simple, I don't feel the game needs this mechanic.

There isn't an "Aiur tribe" The different tribes from Aiur escaped to Shakuras and that's where they live now. Also there isn't a "Shakuras tribe". There are, however, Khalai and Nerazim tribes but if you don't know them very well you can get confused.

@Kanitala: Go Something like it could be very useful, not only for this mod, but for another project I have as well. Have you read the Heaven's Devils book? There were earth-moving vehicles called Sloths used by the Kel-Morians during the Guild Wars against the Confederacy. Since my other project is based on this book I'd love to have Sloths.

And I'm sorry, but the list in the readme isn't up to date with what each faction/tribe/brood unlocks. It's still a useful guide, but be warned that current changes in game will be different.

EDIT: ahh and the Banshees attacking air would make Wraiths, and possiblyVikings useless. Its very hard to consider ideas from the comics or books as they are even less planned toward balance than what we see in the campaign ;-) Believe me I have such a hard time trying to use things from the book in my map.

@SoulFilcher: Go

Actually I would love to see AtA banshees. Wraiths are a faction option (still tosh and/or nova squadron?) and wouldn't be available if it's a kel-morian only option.

Sadly, as you say, it would be rather unbalanced right now. I hate the air unit layout in SC2. Capships are useless, vikings and phoenices "counter" themselves in mirror matches, mutas can't win a straight fight, voidrays are gimmicky and promote cheesing...

The problem is that right now vikings are the only terran AtA unit, so if you introduce anything that counters them terran air is bust. (your implementation of the scout would be a good example: a light anti-armor flyer that's easily massed) Without adding core units/abilities the only option with other races is to use a slow, high-damaging missile attack, making PDDs a hard counter. Or rely on the viking's range and force terrans to stay above marine escorts, but that only works out if the other races have nothing to outrange the viking (read: tempest)

@SoulFilcher: Go

I was just mentioning Aiur as in standing for Khalai Protoss, but nvm as you guys just use different tribes.

@Photoloss: Go I agree. I think capital ships should tank more and proabably have more dps too. David Kim said they're going to buff the BC damage. And I hope my Inertial Barrier upgrade made the Carrier more useful. Maybe we can make the Wraith avaiable to other factions as well? I'd like to see it in action more. The Scout will need to be re-balanced when it finds its new tech tree position.

@Velancious: Go Ok, just to make sure we are talking about the same thing here.

@nolanstar: Go I never noticed this doodad. But if its the Raven's turret, with the same damage, range and the truck's additional life and armor maybe it could be a good unit. But would it replace one of the existing ones? I haven't touched the colonists for a long time because its too hard to replace some key units of the terran tech tree and still make this faction viable while keeping the feel they don't have access to the top gear used by the military.

@Kanitala: Go That's great! Feel free to post in that thread and share you ideas. Right now I'm stuck without terrain. And if you're going to recreate the truck with the auto-turret, maybe you could go for something a little different? I don't know what, but I think we can make a new unit that can replace one role for the Factory.

@SoulFilcher: Go

Don't the colonists already have the "APC" bunker-on-wheels-with-an-autoturret from the agria evacuation mission? Since those replace siege tanks, and they really shouldn't have access to thors either, the colonists would rather need a proper damage dealer. Or a large-scale battlefield manipulation skill like forcefields and SC2 alpha timebomb to lever their superior durability.

As you say, the problem is the lore. What would rebel colonists have access to beyond robust mining rigs, perimeter defenses and copious amounts of rocket fuel? One thing I can think of is a molotov launcher/mortar, but it would work exactly like a siege tank, maybe setting the targets/ground on fire with less impact damage, but still nothing new or interesting.

@Kanitala: Go According to the book the Sloth moves on 2 threads, just like a tank, and it has cannons replacing "dozer blades" in the front. They also had "slugthrowers" which is just another name for a gauss cannon or any weapon that uses bullets. The book says it's a sixty-ton monster so I believe it could be big enough to replace Thors. I think the main cannons are like Siege Tank's cannons or the ones the Thor has for arms. Maybe you could use the Thor's shoulder cannons as base models.

Other units from the book are the Avenger and Hellhound ships, but I have no idea what they look like, and the L.A.V. / Saber vehicles, which are basically variations of the Hellion but with auto-cannons replacing the flamethrower.

@Photoloss: Go Yes, but so far the APC isn't good enough to replace Siege Tanks. I believe the Sloth is the firepower they need to replace Thors. A huge slow-moving earth mover with cannons. I also need more abilities for the Blimp and maybe Nomad, and define their roles better, because right now colonists have 2 support ship, 2 transport ship and lack aerial fighters/capital ships. But how can Colonists have capital ships?

@SoulFilcher: Go

That's what I meant, you replaced siege tanks with APCs, leaving mech very lacking in firepower. The problem with having a mass of slow, beefy units is that the enemy can simply avoid them, harass, "split-push" and use ramps and structures to prevent the Sloth behemoths from rolling into his base.

Blimp: Caster+Detector? I'd suggest thinking about what special abilities the colonists need, then coming up with an excuse to stick them on this unit. It should be more of an "offensive supporter", providing morale boosts and something like a local command post.

Nomad: Flying SCV, area control/denial. It used to have "mine drones" (immobile spider mine spawners) and "seismic thumpers" (AoE slow, like psi disruptors but replace "zerg" with "ground unit"), maybe consider the scrapped shredder unit as well? Of course there's also the generic option of deploying autoturrets, missile turrets, flamethrower turrets and anything else you can grab from a TD map.

Capships: Starbase? You could argue the colonists have enough raw materials to support a perpetually flying structure, and the engineering/maintenance skills+manpower to keep it operational. It would mainly provide on-site repairs/reinforcements, but could also carry point defense turrets (anti-missile or anti-light unit), missile batteries, napalm, "demolition droids" to debilitate heavy units and/or reconaissance/surveillance systems. Or a shiny, big red button ;) (have you played Sins of a Solar Empire?)

@Photoloss: Go I gave the Seismic Thumper to the Raven (is it still there? lol) It was one of the first things I added to the game and nobody ever tried it, maybe I should give it to the Nomad. Now that you mentioned drones and turrets I think that automaton/cleaner bot would look great as a temporary unit created by Nomads. So Nomads can repair faster than SCVs, can place Fire-Suppression Drones (I don't know if this is a useful ability), can Salvage structures to get extra minerals (has anyone used this ability?) and they will be able to place Seismic Thumpers. They have a very defensive/mech support role so far.

Blimps cam detect and Broadcast to make units around it attack faster. Is this the best effect for a 'morale bonus' ability? What should it do? What else can a propaganda zeppelin do to help?

I don't know about Starbase. It always sounded like a crazy concept to me. So Colonists would morph their starports to have Starbases? A permanently flyin structure? denying the ability to win the game if your opponent doesn't have ATA units? Of course it can already happen if you lift one of your structures but at least they get useless as long as you keep them flying.

@Kanitala: Go I'm not sure about the Avenger, I never imagined it like the Wraith. Could you use those weird colonists hover vehicles to make new ships?

I think your suggestion is good. They can scavenge (just like the Rebel unit gets upgrades from dead units) so I guess the Hercules could have weapons mounted to it.

And what about the Bio-Dome Command? I planned it to be a replacement for the Orbital Command, since colonists aren't supposed to have access to military orbital platforms or satellites helping them. Is the Sow Crops ability useful? What kind of abilities can it have to replace those form OCs?

@SoulFilcher: Go

You could make starbases not count towards defeat conditions. Then again I don't think it matters much, because if you're defeated the operational starbase would be just as useless. It's relevant in low-level play where players regularly stock "facebook money", and in close basetrade scenarios as the colonists would literally be dragging half their base along with their army. Lack of supply should normally stop unit production, but if that isn't enough you can make starbase production require a command center. (If you manage to save your CC from a basetrade you're not really out of the game yet)

Unlike basic liftoff the starbase would become available lategame and require dedicated tech investments, so the need for specific counters is justified. The starbase would be BC level tech, so if your enemy sees you going air, sees you have the tech, and still doesn't have AA units they don't deserve to win.

The problem with the crops is they quickly become useless, as killing them off becomes affordable (a couple of lings roaming around) and everyone gets air support (observers, overlord speed, medivacs) Also, the OC provides economic boosts which the biodome doesn't, so there's little incentive to get it early while sacrificing SCV production, further hindering it.