I believe while dota might of lengthened wc3's life, it also changed the community. The dota community is not known for being friendly.Once dota become really popular, it started flooding the custom games list, to the point where no other map could even have a chance of overcoming its popularity.
That being said, ethical to make it or not, Im guessing it will suceed.
This was a really good read as well as the EA Warhammer one that was mentioned. I really hope my future in the gaming world can be free of such idiocy and yes-men. I really hope blizzard has not and will not become this... their dedication to actually make good games sets them apart. There's a reason my gaming days of buying a new game every month has changed to instead be one game every year (like tf2, l4d, war3, WoW, and now sc2).
The articles are both probably legit, aside from a bit of bias... it's a good lesson of what not to become or do.
Edit: One thing I do like about all these 'coming out' anonymous articles is that it sort of resembles battle.net forums... in the way that it gives everyone an anonymous way to vent about things. I really give props to blizz for keeping their forums the way they are.
Dota was about farming creeps and noobs early game. Then it was all about knowing what items to buy and order to buy them (making it even more unnoob friendly). And finally it was about teaming up and ganking people on the map.
i do all that except farm creeps. sometimes i got more minion kills than average when im mf but thats not realy me trying to last hit just random luck lmao
I'm extremely excited about this. Why? I know Hammer Editor inside and out (long time halflife/tf2/CSS mapper here) and a few things I hate about these stupid (dota-esk) games can be immediately fixed.
1) Using source mod you can add a 3rd or 4th team. Hell, if you email valve they might even add the capability in. I've emailed the lead programmer (robin walker) from the valve tf2 team many times and he always responds to me and has even patched a few of my concerns on the editor's functionality. Unlike blizzard which never repond, i've found Valve's developers to be MUCH more open to the community's ideas and concerns.
2) Using some simple triggers you can change the "last hit" earning to "per damage dealt" earning which lowers the difficulty curve considerably. As well as turning off denying entirely via the editor.
3) Change the potency or army size of spawns.
4) Allow base rebuilding
5) additional earning methods.
6) disable items!
7) Add more environment tasks or quests.
the list goes on and on...
The problem with DoTa, Sotis, HoN etc etc is that the community is restricted in what they can actually DO with the game itself. VALVe has a long and close history with its development community and (in the case of TF2 and AlienSwarm) officially releases many of the best mods and maps out there allowing the community to bend the future of a game. TF2 is a classic example of this. Almost everything in the game that is new is either based on community content, direct release of community content, or embellishes on community ideas. I'm @#$%ing excited! :D
If Valve keeps creep denying in Dota 2, there is a real danger it will be like bunnyhopping was in Team Fortress Classic: totally counter-intuitive for newbies. There are many valid criticisms of LoL, but eliminating denying was a good choice.
Sometimes the super-dedicated fans of a previous game can really harm a sequel by demanding it remain completely identical (and thus completely niche). And I'm saying this as someone who has worked on a TFC mod for HL2.
I agree, Hammer Editor is a buggy, unstable, complex piece of junk... but it is extremely powerful once you learn its quirks. The strength in valve custom content is the flexibility you get with WHAT you make, while blizzard offers you the easier method to actually develop but can censor you at the drop of a dime.
If the link Lobster22221 posted has any merit to it, it could spell trouble for the game's future... even if from valve. A great team can't do it's job if being restricted by a totalitarian project head. Who knows though, i'll test the waters and email icefrog myself and see if he is receptive enough to reply to me. So far everyone i've emailed at valve (aside from Gabe Newell) has always gotten back to me even if they can't answer my questions or help me.
We'll see. Valve customers tend to be very loyal to the brand, and if the CSS and TF2 community move into DOTA2 and have nothing but problems with Icefrog, i don't see Gabe keeping the guy around long.
Came to say this. Don't take everything you read as fact, especially in this kind of scenario. This blog is made up, why someone would put in the time to construct such an elaborate lie is beyond me, but it's fake. It is a random blogspot with no proof that it is the creator writing the blog.
omg thats the best game news ive heard since starcraft 2 was announced all those years ago!! I'm so excited for this! I dont like the other dota based games BECAUSE they're not the exact same. Why would i want to learn an entire new tree of heroes and skills and items and what-not? I would so much rather play dota, with all the heros and items i already know with prettier visuals and with the constant updates its already getting. Theres 100+ heros in dota and thats from years and years of work and balancing. To me its ludicrous to play a new dota game with only 12 available heros that arent even as cool as the originals. Why start all over when dota, from the beginning has always been great because of the constant updates. On top of that, valve will be trying their best to keep all that hardcore negativity out of the games. My only problem with dota was playing with (what seemed like) the biggest jerks in all of online gaming. Finally some smart tactics to handle that issue? I am super excited for this. Im so glad the best of the dota games gets to carry on in style.
This was a really good read as well as the EA Warhammer one that was mentioned. I really hope my future in the gaming world can be free of such idiocy and yes-men. I really hope blizzard has not and will not become this... their dedication to actually make good games sets them apart. There's a reason my gaming days of buying a new game every month has changed to instead be one game every year (like tf2, l4d, war3, WoW, and now sc2).
The articles are both probably legit, aside from a bit of bias... it's a good lesson of what not to become or do.
Edit: One thing I do like about all these 'coming out' anonymous articles is that it sort of resembles battle.net forums... in the way that it gives everyone an anonymous way to vent about things. I really give props to blizz for keeping their forums the way they are.
i do all that except farm creeps. sometimes i got more minion kills than average when im mf but thats not realy me trying to last hit just random luck lmao
I'm extremely excited about this. Why? I know Hammer Editor inside and out (long time halflife/tf2/CSS mapper here) and a few things I hate about these stupid (dota-esk) games can be immediately fixed.
1) Using source mod you can add a 3rd or 4th team. Hell, if you email valve they might even add the capability in. I've emailed the lead programmer (robin walker) from the valve tf2 team many times and he always responds to me and has even patched a few of my concerns on the editor's functionality. Unlike blizzard which never repond, i've found Valve's developers to be MUCH more open to the community's ideas and concerns.
2) Using some simple triggers you can change the "last hit" earning to "per damage dealt" earning which lowers the difficulty curve considerably. As well as turning off denying entirely via the editor.
3) Change the potency or army size of spawns.
4) Allow base rebuilding
5) additional earning methods.
6) disable items!
7) Add more environment tasks or quests.
the list goes on and on...
The problem with DoTa, Sotis, HoN etc etc is that the community is restricted in what they can actually DO with the game itself. VALVe has a long and close history with its development community and (in the case of TF2 and AlienSwarm) officially releases many of the best mods and maps out there allowing the community to bend the future of a game. TF2 is a classic example of this. Almost everything in the game that is new is either based on community content, direct release of community content, or embellishes on community ideas. I'm @#$%ing excited! :D
Yes, Valve is better developer than Blizzard. IMO Blizzard will fail soon. Since all old good people have left, most.
Only thing what Blizzard is keeping alive is recycling old games. But, even Diablo III looks worse than D2... Bnet 2 looks worse than Bnet 1...
Valve is more like funbase developers. Only think I dislike there is how they took DotA trademark what I find unfair...
Valve is known for creating games from mods. Since Counter Strike.
If Valve keeps creep denying in Dota 2, there is a real danger it will be like bunnyhopping was in Team Fortress Classic: totally counter-intuitive for newbies. There are many valid criticisms of LoL, but eliminating denying was a good choice.
Sometimes the super-dedicated fans of a previous game can really harm a sequel by demanding it remain completely identical (and thus completely niche). And I'm saying this as someone who has worked on a TFC mod for HL2.
@faeo: Go
Mmm that's cool! I made maps for cs:s and tf2, so that'll be cool! SC2's editor is more friendly though..
@OneTwoSC
I agree, Hammer Editor is a buggy, unstable, complex piece of junk... but it is extremely powerful once you learn its quirks. The strength in valve custom content is the flexibility you get with WHAT you make, while blizzard offers you the easier method to actually develop but can censor you at the drop of a dime.
If the link Lobster22221 posted has any merit to it, it could spell trouble for the game's future... even if from valve. A great team can't do it's job if being restricted by a totalitarian project head. Who knows though, i'll test the waters and email icefrog myself and see if he is receptive enough to reply to me. So far everyone i've emailed at valve (aside from Gabe Newell) has always gotten back to me even if they can't answer my questions or help me.
We'll see. Valve customers tend to be very loyal to the brand, and if the CSS and TF2 community move into DOTA2 and have nothing but problems with Icefrog, i don't see Gabe keeping the guy around long.
@faeo: Go
Valve have said that blog is made up.
@kfrx: Go
Came to say this. Don't take everything you read as fact, especially in this kind of scenario. This blog is made up, why someone would put in the time to construct such an elaborate lie is beyond me, but it's fake. It is a random blogspot with no proof that it is the creator writing the blog.
@sgpao: Go
omg thats the best game news ive heard since starcraft 2 was announced all those years ago!! I'm so excited for this! I dont like the other dota based games BECAUSE they're not the exact same. Why would i want to learn an entire new tree of heroes and skills and items and what-not? I would so much rather play dota, with all the heros and items i already know with prettier visuals and with the constant updates its already getting. Theres 100+ heros in dota and thats from years and years of work and balancing. To me its ludicrous to play a new dota game with only 12 available heros that arent even as cool as the originals. Why start all over when dota, from the beginning has always been great because of the constant updates. On top of that, valve will be trying their best to keep all that hardcore negativity out of the games. My only problem with dota was playing with (what seemed like) the biggest jerks in all of online gaming. Finally some smart tactics to handle that issue? I am super excited for this. Im so glad the best of the dota games gets to carry on in style.