Sweet now see that confirms what I thought and that its not only possible but its been in use, just blizzard has logistical reasons for not turning on higher precision control. I can understand that they don't want the added bandwidth and overhead associated with doubling the network traffic. Thank you for essentially proving my theory :) ...now to get around those logistical problems would probably mean taking the battle.net servers out as role of middle man during games (if that's how it even works) and that I can see as being a rather large overhaul.
<<quote 175068>>but instead they set
the bar so high that no one should be tripping above it even on a 28K
modem and a watery line several miles from the closest switching
station.
(Disclosure: I'm a budding network tech and dealing with latency,
synchronization and routing etc is kinda what I do :P)
<</quote>>
Just as a heads up, out here in Australia a 250ms ping to the US is exceptionally good on the best retail internet lines. Mostly due to our crap infrastructure. And Blizzard never actually puts servers for any of their games based locally to compensate despite having millions of oceanic users across their games :(
I can tell you that playing any sort of game against Americans where that small amount of latency is an issue affects performance a lot to the point where its borderline pointless to try and compete. In WoW PvP for instance there was little point playing against players in the US because you just couldn't react fast enough.
So you can take your 30ms and shove it :P (Just kidding). More to the point, I'm glad Blizzard decided to do that so that we can have a chance of competing out here.
I do however support the cause to make FPS and TPS maps viable!
Oh man you guys roped into the NA server clusters? I can understand the lag over that body of water would be pretty brutal for sure and yah, that'd be a situation where the latency could push into the quarter second range, ouch man. I had no idea.
No we are in the Oceanic region or whatever its called for SC2, but to my knowledge Blizzard has never built an overseas server so regardless of the region you play on you are still using US servers (This was at least the case for WoW).
Correct me if I am wrong.
My point was that there's a good reason for this enforced latency. Or at least I think its a good reason ;)
Aye, yah you guys would need that extra roof for sure. As if they won't put down any sort of infrastructure for you guys, that's painful. Ah well as more fiber gets laid across that great void it should get better I hope. I feel for you, you guys get screwed on so many fronts when it comes to the internet and gaming.
Really? Like when you click the mouse or press a direction the unit *instantly*(or very close to it) reacts like they do when playing the map locally? Because that's the problem we're referring to, the 1/4 second delay between user actions and game response that battle.net inflicts.
Personally i think the only thing that needs a "fix" is the whole shooting/bullet lag. WASD works fine imo, i have made tons of wasd melee/aoe/cone attack maps with no issues when it came to lag. You really dont notice it with those types of abilities but when your shooting a projectile and it has even a 0.5 second delay... kind of noticable lol
I think it really needs everything to work instantly (WASD, mouse click shoot) when in FPS or TPS. I personally need fast action ability.
I mostly played FPS (Counterstrike, Call Of Duty, Battlefied) and I play really fast. 1/4 delay will not work on my abilities even jsut a jerk lag.
The real question is why are yall making tps and fps games on an engine designed for top down RTS/RPG games? There are plenty of editors out there that will allow you to do the type of game you want and with higher polygon counts too. Off the top of my head we have Unreal 3 Editor (free for everyone now), Crytech (free with purchase of crysis and soon to be crysis 2), source (free with purchase of any source game) and some of the smaller small fee engines (unity, etc).
The SC2 engine will never make a tps or fps game that could match the quality of the above engines. For one thing it lacks the proper network support and for another thing it lacks features like an LOD filter, anisotropic filtering, the ability to go over and under things like bridges and much more.
I say play to this engine's strength and if you really want to do a tps/fps then learn another engine.
I am going to somewhat agree with what your saying about playing to the editors stengths. As i said above i have made several wasd third person games that all worked fine BUT that was also mostly because of the fact i did not use bullets or a shooting mechanic. I think this editors strengths are third person action games, not shooters.
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@DeotaAndOrainAtKhazModan: Go
Sweet now see that confirms what I thought and that its not only possible but its been in use, just blizzard has logistical reasons for not turning on higher precision control. I can understand that they don't want the added bandwidth and overhead associated with doubling the network traffic. Thank you for essentially proving my theory :) ...now to get around those logistical problems would probably mean taking the battle.net servers out as role of middle man during games (if that's how it even works) and that I can see as being a rather large overhaul.
<<quote 175068>>but instead they set the bar so high that no one should be tripping above it even on a 28K modem and a watery line several miles from the closest switching station.(Disclosure: I'm a budding network tech and dealing with latency, synchronization and routing etc is kinda what I do :P) <</quote>>
Just as a heads up, out here in Australia a 250ms ping to the US is exceptionally good on the best retail internet lines. Mostly due to our crap infrastructure. And Blizzard never actually puts servers for any of their games based locally to compensate despite having millions of oceanic users across their games :(
I can tell you that playing any sort of game against Americans where that small amount of latency is an issue affects performance a lot to the point where its borderline pointless to try and compete. In WoW PvP for instance there was little point playing against players in the US because you just couldn't react fast enough.
So you can take your 30ms and shove it :P (Just kidding). More to the point, I'm glad Blizzard decided to do that so that we can have a chance of competing out here.
I do however support the cause to make FPS and TPS maps viable!
@cecilofs: Go
Oh man you guys roped into the NA server clusters? I can understand the lag over that body of water would be pretty brutal for sure and yah, that'd be a situation where the latency could push into the quarter second range, ouch man. I had no idea.
No we are in the Oceanic region or whatever its called for SC2, but to my knowledge Blizzard has never built an overseas server so regardless of the region you play on you are still using US servers (This was at least the case for WoW).
Correct me if I am wrong.
My point was that there's a good reason for this enforced latency. Or at least I think its a good reason ;)
@cecilofs: Go
Aye, yah you guys would need that extra roof for sure. As if they won't put down any sort of infrastructure for you guys, that's painful. Ah well as more fiber gets laid across that great void it should get better I hope. I feel for you, you guys get screwed on so many fronts when it comes to the internet and gaming.
I never seem to lag when it comes to FPS/TPS... It really depends on how good/fast your Internet Provider is, and how close you are to their servers.
@DoubleElite: Go
Really? Like when you click the mouse or press a direction the unit *instantly*(or very close to it) reacts like they do when playing the map locally? Because that's the problem we're referring to, the 1/4 second delay between user actions and game response that battle.net inflicts.
Personally i think the only thing that needs a "fix" is the whole shooting/bullet lag. WASD works fine imo, i have made tons of wasd melee/aoe/cone attack maps with no issues when it came to lag. You really dont notice it with those types of abilities but when your shooting a projectile and it has even a 0.5 second delay... kind of noticable lol
I think it really needs everything to work instantly (WASD, mouse click shoot) when in FPS or TPS. I personally need fast action ability. I mostly played FPS (Counterstrike, Call Of Duty, Battlefied) and I play really fast. 1/4 delay will not work on my abilities even jsut a jerk lag.
@jerberson12: Go
The real question is why are yall making tps and fps games on an engine designed for top down RTS/RPG games? There are plenty of editors out there that will allow you to do the type of game you want and with higher polygon counts too. Off the top of my head we have Unreal 3 Editor (free for everyone now), Crytech (free with purchase of crysis and soon to be crysis 2), source (free with purchase of any source game) and some of the smaller small fee engines (unity, etc).
The SC2 engine will never make a tps or fps game that could match the quality of the above engines. For one thing it lacks the proper network support and for another thing it lacks features like an LOD filter, anisotropic filtering, the ability to go over and under things like bridges and much more.
I say play to this engine's strength and if you really want to do a tps/fps then learn another engine.
@Redfox777: Go
I am going to somewhat agree with what your saying about playing to the editors stengths. As i said above i have made several wasd third person games that all worked fine BUT that was also mostly because of the fact i did not use bullets or a shooting mechanic. I think this editors strengths are third person action games, not shooters.