I don't understand why Blizzard wants so hard to "humanize" the main characters... I am not against it, but is like they are "human" on an innatural way... People likes badass characters, they doesn't need realistic characters... The dimonstration of this come from the most liked characters of sc2, they are all cold and badass
Abathur, Tosh, Nova, Tychus, other i don't remember
Personally I want a new melee unit from the robotics facility (Thrikodias' Avenger Unit is a great example)
and for Dark Templars to merge into Dark Archons, High templars to merge into archons and one of each templar merges into a Twilight archon (Archon that can attack and has dark abilities)
I like the idea of new archon types. But that just might be a bit op since archons them selves are pretty strong aswell. I would just like to see a reaper like units for early harrasment.
I don't understand why Blizzard wants so hard to "humanize" the main characters... I am not against it, but is like they are "human" on an innatural way... People likes badass characters, they doesn't need realistic characters... The dimonstration of this come from the most liked characters of sc2, they are all cold and badass
Abathur, Tosh, Nova, Tychus, other i don't remember
I would say those characters you mentioned are way too underdeveloped (for me) to like. Nova never came across as sympathetic as in that novel I read (second novel came yesterday, can't wait to read it). She was just a tool for Arcturus. Abathur had a really cool voice but nothing more. Even though I understood Tychus' motives his attitude was not likeable at all. Same goes for Tosh. It would have been way more shocking if Matt Horner was the real betrayer. I like Valerian because he is like the good-guy Arthas. Everyone expects him to turn evil but I guess he won't until after LotV.
We played about 46 maps so far; It was way too much about Kerrigan and Raynor. I'm afraid that 20 missions won't be enough to learn much about all the Protoss heroes, history and also deal with Amon. I hope that in this final campaign they will not build the story around the mission types but the mission types around the story.
My hopes for the LotV campaign:
Kill Raynor or Kerrigan. Not Zeratul.
Show us Xel'Naga.
Have a Xel'Naga or Tassadar's avatar explain everything.
More than 25 missions. Not including bonus missions.
Mission design build around story. Not the other way around.
A lot of Protoss lore.
Push other characters like Valerian, Nova or Artanis.
End the Hybrid threat. Give us a satisfying ending.
Don't leave obvious doors open for a sequel. Make it like WC3 and start SC3 several years later with new heroes and stories.
I don't understand why Blizzard wants so hard to "humanize" the main characters... I am not against it, but is like they are "human" on an innatural way... People likes badass characters, they doesn't need realistic characters... The dimonstration of this come from the most liked characters of sc2, they are all cold and badass
Abathur, Tosh, Nova, Tychus, other i don't remember
Tosh and Tychus are quite human, and that's why they're so like-able.. (Nova is the Starcraft Sex Symbol)
Abathur on the other hand, reminds me of:
-
On topic; I really hope the Protoss get to shine this time. It my opinion they've been pushed around all Sc2! (My opinion may be biased, as I play Protoss.)
I don't understand why Blizzard wants so hard to "humanize" the main characters...
First this: the reason Blizzard wants to 'humanize' their characters because... that's the only way to keep the story interesting for, y'know, humans? 'Humanizing' means adding layers of depth, realism, emotional twists and flaws to a character. It literally means the character isn't a one-trick pony that always does the same thing. Any story without 'humanized' characters would be boring as heck as everybody would constantly act in the same way.
I am not against it, but is like they are "human" on an innatural way... People likes badass characters, they doesn't need realistic characters...
Then this: what are you saying here? That badass characters can't be realistic? That makes no sense whatsoever. The best badass characters are realistic characters. An unrealistic 'badass' looks exactly like the Hulk without his Bruce Banner counterpart, or like Mr. Hyde without Mr. Jekyll - it's literally just a "me smash" character without depth. Those characters are perfect for cannon fodder in a story (i.e. the Ultralisk), but giving them dialogue and a central function makes things really boring, really fast.
The dimonstration of this come from the most liked characters of sc2, they are all cold and badass
The 'most liked characters'? Says who? Do you have a source for a poll or anything - or at they just your most-liked characters? That's a considerable difference.
Abathur, Tosh, Nova, Tychus, other i don't remember
First of all here, you've just named four of the more minor characters in the lore. As a result, these characters are always going to be less 'humanized' than the main characters simply because we don't get to see into their soul as much: we never figure out what 'drives' them, what their flaws are and why they decide to do what they do.
Second, regardless of the above, the good thing about at least three of those four characters is exactly that they are 'humanized'. Abathur's motives are revealed in detail in the conversations about them. In fact, he's as 'humanized' as any Zerg character you'll ever see and that is the reason he is a 'badass'. He never actually fights or shows martial prowess. Tosh is interesting because the player (Raynor) doesn't know whether he can trust him. He too is a badass because he's humanized; he shares just enough with Raynor for the relation to continue but keeps him in the dark overall, which is a prime example of manipulation. Tychus is humanized because we very clearly get to see his flaws.
All in all, I think you completely contradict yourself in your post. I'm not sure what it even is you're after; you just want people looking cool and kicking some ass? If that's the case, then what's wrong with Raynor? You no longer like him simply cause there's more to him than kicking Zerg ass?
In fact, he's as 'humanized' as any Zerg character you'll ever see and that is the reason he is a 'badass'.
Abathur? Heck no. The only reason people like him is because he's not human. Speaks in incomplete sentences, has no grasp of morality, only serves one function, etc. Certainly not a "badass", but people like him for the same reason they liked the Overmind and Cerebrates, they're not human. Humans get boring after a while.
That being said, I want my human characters to act human, and my zerg characters to act like aliens. Turning them into whiny teenagers did not make me care about them in the slightest. Zagara is just Kerrigan's cheerleader, and Dahaka is probably one of the worst characters in SC, along with Hanson. :P
Protoss are basically humans raised in a different culture.
In my opinion Abathur was the only character that could speak that felt truly alien. That I think is why fans go crazy for all things Abathur because we haven't seen a real Zerg character since the Overmind and it's cerebrates. Like Gradius said Dehaka, Izsha and Zagara didn't even come close. They tried to (or mistakenly) made HoTS a very human story with human characters instead of really rooting into the real function of the Zerg. The whole point in the Zerg race is to leave morality at the door and consume everything. I would have preferred either removing Kerigan for a new character or keeping her the same as BW Kerrigan where she has this inability to kill Raynor but will damn sure kill everyone around him.
Which brings me to LoTV. I think leave Kerrigans contact with the Protoss to a minimum and have Raynor in there helping out a lot. But they really need to make this game play as if you are in StarCraft as a religious knight templar kind of guy. If they don't really nail what it means to be Protoss I think a lot of people will be sick of Blizzard. WoL and HoTS didn't quite deliver on the campaigns so it's really up to LoTV. I just hope we see Fenix return :D
Abathur? Heck no. The only reason people like him is because he's not human. Speaks in incomplete sentences, has no grasp of morality, only serves one function, etc. Certainly not a "badass", but people like him for the same reason they liked the Overmind and Cerebrates, they're not human. Humans get boring after a while.
I don't know - I guess it depends on your definition of the words 'humanization'. When offset against the term 'badass' I take it as in how I defined it above: "adding layers of depth, realism, emotional twists and flaws to a character". Abathur definitely has that. He's interesting because of his depth and realism and 'emotions', specifically so because they are not their regular human counterparts. In his case 'character' is a better word. Either way, he's not interesting simply for looking cool and kicking ass, like for example the Marines in the cutscenes are. That was my point.
LotV will make me miss Aldaris. I really doubt they can make a character like him and I doubt they will take the time to develop Urun or Mohandar. Not to mention there are other Protoss leaders who haven't appeared in the game yet.
After HotS, I'm also pretty sure LotV will manage to take a similar or worse route, supposedly. As Gradius stated, missions will be brutally casualized, even in brutal, and will, I can safely bet, copycat again the gameplay gimmicks from both HotS and LotV.
There are people who will disagree with me, but it's getting far beyond the obvious that Blizzard is intended on making a Starcraft MMO, given WoW is already close to spent (Warlords of Draenor seemed to forced for my taste, especially after Pandaria). LotV will just set the stage for that, and even severe disrespect for lore will come up in this matter. Behold some possible apocalyptic predictions.
- Amon will be a simple villain, all charging and gloating, making the pre-final and final missions nearly unbearable.
- Dominion will now be a good faction and everyone will take it alright, not even fracturing, being weak or something else...
- Zerg will be a good race, now, pretty much like the orcs, except this one will be more plastic. And they'll keep Kerrigan alive to make sure of that. Or they'll kill her, but make sure all Zerg will be good from this time forward...
- The Protoss, though nigh-extinct, by some miracle will return to their numbers before the invasion of Aiur.
- Ending has a 99% chance of featuring a Kerrigan/Raynor kiss, perhaps even marriage.
Armageddon is coming folks. Best luck for Diablo... Not!
I don't know. The one thing about the HotS campaign's was that every level was set up to give the player a 'Zergy feeling' of swarming their enemies. Which in gameplay mechanics simply translated to "Macro like a baws and A-move". This is relatively easy to do on any difficulty, and that's why I think everyone complained about the difficulty. They simply gave up challenge for a better feeling in the gameplay as well as a better integration with lore and the out of mission upgrades (Kerrigan+Evolution missions). When it comes to difficulty, LotV could be quite different simply because playing Protoss will enforce a different playstyle.
As for the story... maybe you're right, maybe not. I don't think things will be as bad as you're describing them, but I can't say I'd be really surprised if they were. I'm relatively comfortable in saying we'll at least see one or two of your points come through. I don't think we'll see them all, though. And even though the storyline of HotS was definitely disappointing, it still had its good bits. I doubt LotV will be an all-round disappointment.
And even though the storyline of HotS was definitely disappointing, it still had its good bits. I doubt LotV will be an all-round disappointment.
Well, I doubted HotS story would be any better, that is, before it came out, but voilá, look where we are now...
As for good points, well, I can't see them, and if there are any, they're massively overshadowed by poor story telling, poor characters, poor dialogue and poor mission design (Save for Rendezvous, the third mission, where it had a degree of challenge. But just a degree, and it was because Terran had Tier 2 and you had only Tier 1.).
Thinking about it again, I guess you're right when it comes to the HotS story. The whole starting storyline was lame and ended with the lame "RAYNOR IS DEAD BUT MAYBE NOT WINK WINK" conclusion, Warfield met a shitty end on Char, the Kaldir missions were pure deus ex machina's, Zerus was one big deus ex machina and Dehaka was as flat as a cardboard, Skygeirr... I'd like to pretend that didn't happen, and the Space and Final missions were all a continueation of 50 Shades of Raynor & Kerrigan. Even Kerrigan's tiny interaction with Zeratul made no sense whatsoever. Abathur was the sole point of light.
That said, I don't think the mission design in HotS was poor by definition. As mentioned, the difficulty was an issue, but that was more because of the entire game's design (specifically the focus on E-sports) and the fact that Blizzard was obviously trying to make the Zerg missions feel 'Zergy'. Additionally, the WoL storyline, characters and feeling were all pretty well done, so in that sense I've got some hope for LotV. In a nutshell, I think what ruined HotS was the Raynor/Kerrigan romance (and nothing interesting happening with that save for the very last cinematic) and the fact that the team had nothing good to go on in regards to characterizing the Zerg and giving them storyline. Protoss has a relatively icky background too, but at the very least the Raynor/Kerrigan romance will be a backstory instead of the primary driving force.
I think the Dominion will be good from now on.......hell it was hinted at the end of HotS.....with Valerian in charge, and Raynor possibly replacing Warfield as General (my hopes), there is no need for Terran civil war anymore.
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I don't understand why Blizzard wants so hard to "humanize" the main characters... I am not against it, but is like they are "human" on an innatural way... People likes badass characters, they doesn't need realistic characters... The dimonstration of this come from the most liked characters of sc2, they are all cold and badass
I like the idea of new archon types. But that just might be a bit op since archons them selves are pretty strong aswell. I would just like to see a reaper like units for early harrasment.
Wait, what? You're kidding, right?
You are saying that i am saying idiots stuffs or that the characters i listed aren't cool for you ?
@SoulFilcher: Go
Don't worry about that, we will beat him into a SC2 character.
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go
I would say those characters you mentioned are way too underdeveloped (for me) to like. Nova never came across as sympathetic as in that novel I read (second novel came yesterday, can't wait to read it). She was just a tool for Arcturus. Abathur had a really cool voice but nothing more. Even though I understood Tychus' motives his attitude was not likeable at all. Same goes for Tosh. It would have been way more shocking if Matt Horner was the real betrayer. I like Valerian because he is like the good-guy Arthas. Everyone expects him to turn evil but I guess he won't until after LotV.
We played about 46 maps so far; It was way too much about Kerrigan and Raynor. I'm afraid that 20 missions won't be enough to learn much about all the Protoss heroes, history and also deal with Amon. I hope that in this final campaign they will not build the story around the mission types but the mission types around the story.
My hopes for the LotV campaign:
Tosh and Tychus are quite human, and that's why they're so like-able.. (Nova is the Starcraft Sex Symbol)
Abathur on the other hand, reminds me of:
-
On topic; I really hope the Protoss get to shine this time. It my opinion they've been pushed around all Sc2! (My opinion may be biased, as I play Protoss.)
Maybe they can sex up Abathur a bit. make him a pimp.
@Fullachain: Go
He'll eat up the ladies. (pun pun pun)
A pimp skin for Abathur needs to be made when HotStorm is out. :P
No, I'm saying nothing of what you said make sense.
First this: the reason Blizzard wants to 'humanize' their characters because... that's the only way to keep the story interesting for, y'know, humans? 'Humanizing' means adding layers of depth, realism, emotional twists and flaws to a character. It literally means the character isn't a one-trick pony that always does the same thing. Any story without 'humanized' characters would be boring as heck as everybody would constantly act in the same way.
Then this: what are you saying here? That badass characters can't be realistic? That makes no sense whatsoever. The best badass characters are realistic characters. An unrealistic 'badass' looks exactly like the Hulk without his Bruce Banner counterpart, or like Mr. Hyde without Mr. Jekyll - it's literally just a "me smash" character without depth. Those characters are perfect for cannon fodder in a story (i.e. the Ultralisk), but giving them dialogue and a central function makes things really boring, really fast.
The 'most liked characters'? Says who? Do you have a source for a poll or anything - or at they just your most-liked characters? That's a considerable difference.
First of all here, you've just named four of the more minor characters in the lore. As a result, these characters are always going to be less 'humanized' than the main characters simply because we don't get to see into their soul as much: we never figure out what 'drives' them, what their flaws are and why they decide to do what they do.
Second, regardless of the above, the good thing about at least three of those four characters is exactly that they are 'humanized'. Abathur's motives are revealed in detail in the conversations about them. In fact, he's as 'humanized' as any Zerg character you'll ever see and that is the reason he is a 'badass'. He never actually fights or shows martial prowess. Tosh is interesting because the player (Raynor) doesn't know whether he can trust him. He too is a badass because he's humanized; he shares just enough with Raynor for the relation to continue but keeps him in the dark overall, which is a prime example of manipulation. Tychus is humanized because we very clearly get to see his flaws.
All in all, I think you completely contradict yourself in your post. I'm not sure what it even is you're after; you just want people looking cool and kicking some ass? If that's the case, then what's wrong with Raynor? You no longer like him simply cause there's more to him than kicking Zerg ass?
Abathur? Heck no. The only reason people like him is because he's not human. Speaks in incomplete sentences, has no grasp of morality, only serves one function, etc. Certainly not a "badass", but people like him for the same reason they liked the Overmind and Cerebrates, they're not human. Humans get boring after a while.
That being said, I want my human characters to act human, and my zerg characters to act like aliens. Turning them into whiny teenagers did not make me care about them in the slightest. Zagara is just Kerrigan's cheerleader, and Dahaka is probably one of the worst characters in SC, along with Hanson. :P
Protoss are basically humans raised in a different culture.
In my opinion Abathur was the only character that could speak that felt truly alien. That I think is why fans go crazy for all things Abathur because we haven't seen a real Zerg character since the Overmind and it's cerebrates. Like Gradius said Dehaka, Izsha and Zagara didn't even come close. They tried to (or mistakenly) made HoTS a very human story with human characters instead of really rooting into the real function of the Zerg. The whole point in the Zerg race is to leave morality at the door and consume everything. I would have preferred either removing Kerigan for a new character or keeping her the same as BW Kerrigan where she has this inability to kill Raynor but will damn sure kill everyone around him.
Which brings me to LoTV. I think leave Kerrigans contact with the Protoss to a minimum and have Raynor in there helping out a lot. But they really need to make this game play as if you are in StarCraft as a religious knight templar kind of guy. If they don't really nail what it means to be Protoss I think a lot of people will be sick of Blizzard. WoL and HoTS didn't quite deliver on the campaigns so it's really up to LoTV. I just hope we see Fenix return :D
I don't know - I guess it depends on your definition of the words 'humanization'. When offset against the term 'badass' I take it as in how I defined it above: "adding layers of depth, realism, emotional twists and flaws to a character". Abathur definitely has that. He's interesting because of his depth and realism and 'emotions', specifically so because they are not their regular human counterparts. In his case 'character' is a better word. Either way, he's not interesting simply for looking cool and kicking ass, like for example the Marines in the cutscenes are. That was my point.
LotV will make me miss Aldaris. I really doubt they can make a character like him and I doubt they will take the time to develop Urun or Mohandar. Not to mention there are other Protoss leaders who haven't appeared in the game yet.
After HotS, I'm also pretty sure LotV will manage to take a similar or worse route, supposedly. As Gradius stated, missions will be brutally casualized, even in brutal, and will, I can safely bet, copycat again the gameplay gimmicks from both HotS and LotV.
There are people who will disagree with me, but it's getting far beyond the obvious that Blizzard is intended on making a Starcraft MMO, given WoW is already close to spent (Warlords of Draenor seemed to forced for my taste, especially after Pandaria). LotV will just set the stage for that, and even severe disrespect for lore will come up in this matter. Behold some possible apocalyptic predictions.
- Amon will be a simple villain, all charging and gloating, making the pre-final and final missions nearly unbearable.
- Dominion will now be a good faction and everyone will take it alright, not even fracturing, being weak or something else...
- Zerg will be a good race, now, pretty much like the orcs, except this one will be more plastic. And they'll keep Kerrigan alive to make sure of that. Or they'll kill her, but make sure all Zerg will be good from this time forward...
- The Protoss, though nigh-extinct, by some miracle will return to their numbers before the invasion of Aiur.
- Ending has a 99% chance of featuring a Kerrigan/Raynor kiss, perhaps even marriage.
Armageddon is coming folks. Best luck for Diablo... Not!
@DeltaCadimus: Go
I don't know. The one thing about the HotS campaign's was that every level was set up to give the player a 'Zergy feeling' of swarming their enemies. Which in gameplay mechanics simply translated to "Macro like a baws and A-move". This is relatively easy to do on any difficulty, and that's why I think everyone complained about the difficulty. They simply gave up challenge for a better feeling in the gameplay as well as a better integration with lore and the out of mission upgrades (Kerrigan+Evolution missions). When it comes to difficulty, LotV could be quite different simply because playing Protoss will enforce a different playstyle.
As for the story... maybe you're right, maybe not. I don't think things will be as bad as you're describing them, but I can't say I'd be really surprised if they were. I'm relatively comfortable in saying we'll at least see one or two of your points come through. I don't think we'll see them all, though. And even though the storyline of HotS was definitely disappointing, it still had its good bits. I doubt LotV will be an all-round disappointment.
Well, I doubted HotS story would be any better, that is, before it came out, but voilá, look where we are now...
As for good points, well, I can't see them, and if there are any, they're massively overshadowed by poor story telling, poor characters, poor dialogue and poor mission design (Save for Rendezvous, the third mission, where it had a degree of challenge. But just a degree, and it was because Terran had Tier 2 and you had only Tier 1.).
@DeltaCadimus: Go
Thinking about it again, I guess you're right when it comes to the HotS story. The whole starting storyline was lame and ended with the lame "RAYNOR IS DEAD BUT MAYBE NOT WINK WINK" conclusion, Warfield met a shitty end on Char, the Kaldir missions were pure deus ex machina's, Zerus was one big deus ex machina and Dehaka was as flat as a cardboard, Skygeirr... I'd like to pretend that didn't happen, and the Space and Final missions were all a continueation of 50 Shades of Raynor & Kerrigan. Even Kerrigan's tiny interaction with Zeratul made no sense whatsoever. Abathur was the sole point of light.
That said, I don't think the mission design in HotS was poor by definition. As mentioned, the difficulty was an issue, but that was more because of the entire game's design (specifically the focus on E-sports) and the fact that Blizzard was obviously trying to make the Zerg missions feel 'Zergy'. Additionally, the WoL storyline, characters and feeling were all pretty well done, so in that sense I've got some hope for LotV. In a nutshell, I think what ruined HotS was the Raynor/Kerrigan romance (and nothing interesting happening with that save for the very last cinematic) and the fact that the team had nothing good to go on in regards to characterizing the Zerg and giving them storyline. Protoss has a relatively icky background too, but at the very least the Raynor/Kerrigan romance will be a backstory instead of the primary driving force.
@DeltaCadimus: Go
I think the Dominion will be good from now on.......hell it was hinted at the end of HotS.....with Valerian in charge, and Raynor possibly replacing Warfield as General (my hopes), there is no need for Terran civil war anymore.