As far as I remember Bnet 2.0 was designed by a team who worked with console games, instead of putting people who designed war3 bnet so no wonder it started that way.
Though I found funny how one guy at work who took a quick glance at me watching a WCS game and asked why the graphics were so cartoony (the map was that Gwangalli Beach) - I don't know... at some terrains (Zerus, Kaldir) you will see the graphics look like a movie but at some other places this cartoonishness is noticable. Still, I haven't seen a difference compared to Dota 2 or any new RTS game to have more realistic graphics, I think they did the best there - combining lesser specs with awesome graphics, if they made the graphics too cinematic, the technical requirements would raise so much that only ppl with best PCs would play them. Besides I've never seen anything better as graphics for an RTS, if someone knows some RTS with better graphics that don't look cartoony feel free to post it, I can't notice such.
Maybe it is because the new terrains give a lot more realism, Blizzard said they were improving them for HotS,. while the majority that remained from WoL has the more cartoony look.
Exactly.. and in Korea SC2 is already replacing BW entirely, it will live there, In EU there isn't a boom of pro players (some are even retiring) but there is definitely interest in watching these Korean matches.
To be fair, they have "defined" it already:
source
Nonetheless, you're still right about their lack of inaction on solving mech's problems. These silly buffs that don't actually help and additions like the Viper just keep proving they don't really want mech even though it's exactly what Terran needs right now. I guess the old days of tanks dominating maps like Steppes of War scared the crap out of them to the point that the tank and as a whole, the factory have been made useless as a result.
Well, I guess it's another 3 years of stale biomine until LotV since that's what blizz apparently wants...
"CPM (Cost Per Thousand). This term actually comes from TV and print, so it could better be termed "number of eyeballs divided by 2" or number of views. Typically it's a price per banner ad plus a guaranteed number of views. A website that charges $15,000 per banner and guarantees 600,000 impressions has a CPM of $25 ($15,000 divided by 600).
These days CPM has fallen dramatically to the $1 range or below for non-targeted static ads on social media websites, although rich or dynamic media ads command a much higher CPM, as do static banners on highly targeted sites."
Now if we take the previously stated Hulu add rate then we come up with:
30 * (75,000/100) = $2250 per add showing.
Is this enough? There are roughly 2 adds per game (shown between games).
If there are 100 games then the net revenue from 1 day tournament is: $225,000. If you add in the costs it takes to host a tournament then this is not nearly enough.
Its really going to depend on what the CPM really goes for. Hulu rates certainly won't cut it.
Out of the nearly 5 million copies of WoL sold we are down to less than 75k watching ESports. No big deal except Blizzard exclusively focused on ESports while the arcade tanked.
The point I'm making is that it was a really stupid management decision that is not bringing in enough income to justify the effort. Saying ESports is doing "fine" when Blizzard expected it to pull in a significant amount of income (if you take into account fees for hosting tournaments and the fact that they created their own tournament league when no one else is going that route speaks pretty clearly that they expected to be able to make additional income off StarCraft 2's ESports scene.
Out of the nearly 5 million copies of WoL sold we are down to less than 75k watching ESports. No big deal except Blizzard exclusively focused on ESports while the arcade tanked.
The point I'm making is that it was a really stupid management decision that is not bringing in enough income to justify the effort. Saying ESports is doing "fine" when Blizzard expected it to pull in a significant amount of income (if you take into account fees for hosting tournaments and the fact that they created their own tournament league when no one else is going that route speaks pretty clearly that they expected to be able to make additional income off StarCraft 2's ESports scene.
Making a complaint is fine. Making the exact same complaint in every post you make for weeks gets boring.
Out of the nearly 5 million copies of WoL sold we are down to less than
75k watching ESports. No big deal except Blizzard exclusively focused on
ESports while the arcade tanked.
The point I'm making is that it was a really stupid management decision
that is not bringing in enough income to justify the effort. Saying
ESports is doing "fine" when Blizzard expected it to pull in a
significant amount of income (if you take into account fees for hosting
tournaments and the fact that they created their own tournament league
when no one else is going that route speaks pretty clearly that they
expected to be able to make additional income off StarCraft 2's ESports
scene.
Making a complaint is fine. Making the exact same complaint in every
post you make for weeks gets boring.
I believe he has the right to voice his own opinions. And Blizzard has a penchant for having to be told the same thing repeatedly before they get the message.
Mabye someone should design A unique new game, something original (aka NOT DOTA, or tower defence) Then If it was a truly original ( and fun) game It might pull some popularity back into SC2. I myself have a pretty cool idea for a new(ish) form of game that might work, that I'm working on with a friend.
Team Genesis is a really big team, I'm sure if they pooled their effort they could do something like this in a month or two.
kinda of off topic now since the conversation (as it always does on such topics) shifted over to dissing blizzard but I really felt like saying it.
Mabye someone should design A unique new game, something original (aka NOT DOTA, or tower defence) Then If it was a truly original ( and fun) game It might pull some popularity back into SC2. I myself have a pretty cool idea for a new(ish) form of game that might work, that I'm working on with a friend. Team Genesis is a really big team, I'm sure if they pooled their effort they could do something like this in a month or two.
kinda of off topic now since the conversation (as it always does on such topics) shifted over to dissing blizzard but I really felt like saying it.
()()()()(sorry for all the parentheses)()()()(()
I actually think some of the top played maps are quite original. Warships for example was quite amazing when I first tried it. Idk if its received as widely as dota was in wc3 though.
Yeah warships is quite original, and I often see a lot of very original game make their way to the front page. However, they almost always fall out of favor very quickly, probably because of a lack of fun (or addicting) gameplay. What I was trying to say with my first post was that I think a new game should be brain stormed and created, with these attributes. Its kinda like with game consoles, where its not the console, but rather the games that make it popular.
When Blizzard killed the modding scene during the beta and the first months of WoL they made sure that the arcade or whatever the name it takes will never gain any momentum.
I was a very active member of the WC3 community during the last years and everyone was looking forward to SC2 as the game that would bring a second golden age of mapping. We knew that Blizzard would probably fuck the engine and the tools up again but since we had fixed up the WC3 tools to a workable state we would just do the same with the SC2 ones. This never happened, during the beta the WC3 communities were buzzing with activity from people releasing alpha software and trying out everything the editor could offer. We were rejoiced to hear that the data editor was saving everything in a XML structure since this meant it would be fairly easy to make our own replacement, same with the language being C based so it actually had some structure instead of the mess that was JASS. Sure we knew we would have to create something like vJASS again and many people were creating their own languages. But all of this died in alpha stages, leaving half finished tools that stopped working as Blizzard updated the game.
The true stumbling block was Battle.net 2.0, but most importantly the popularity system. As all of you should know when SC2 was released the only list for custom games was a popularity list, no open lobbies, no fun or not, nothing. Just a review system, a library and a popularity list.
This meant that if I made a map, made some core functionality and now wanted to test it to get some input and see if any bugs would arise this was impossible. My map was now sitting on page 59 of the popularity list and the only way to find players was to encourage people outside of SC2 to try to join the map through the library or click through all the pages. There wasn't even chat channels in the game were you could encourage the public to join your game. Right here almost all the modders just gave up, the smart ones didn't even try to make a map and the stupid ones never got their map played once.
Sure it is easy to complain about the editor and some stupid bugs, but that was not the thing that killed SC2, those hurdles could be overcome with time and patience, sure the quality might not have been the greatest in the beginning, but attempts at making maps and refining them would still exist and most importantly, get played.
The point I am trying to make is that many of the experienced WC3 mappers picked up other programming languages (me included) and we tried to fix the SC2 editor, but since we all realized no one would be there to use our work or play the maps created with them we gave up and left our projects to die. For examples see the external IDE Moonlite or the Andromeda progrmaming language, there's many more examples out there.
And this is where the community is still stuck today, instead of fixing the errors Blizzard make the community spends days and nights complaining about petty stuff because the people who had the knowledge to fix the errors through 3rd party tools are long gone. It is the same with documentation, WC3 never had any documentation at all, we created it through trial and error, and that was the direction this community also was headed towards during the beta with the famous youtube tutorials and the Wikis set up by almost all WC3 modding sites and SC2 mapster, but that never came to fruition because the smart people who were able to do it because of previous experience from WC3, BW and other games left too early for their work to be finished and today there's almost nothing.
Here is what happened to get us here, so lets take a quick look back.
1. Curse and Blizzard came into a deal so that only mapster was supported, This caused Hive workshop, Sen and a few others to pretty much have no chance, so some people switched, the rest just quit.
2. People realized that the editor was too difficult to understand when starting/took to long to do simple task, This caused a few top people to leave and pretty much salted the earth to prevent newbies from coming, so now. this knocked down newbies to about 10-20% of what they would have been)
3. The arcade(as it is now called), was found to be a terrible system that was built only for the promise of the map marketplace. (This was confirmed when someone asked a blizzard dev about it in the IRC).
4. The map marketplace was promised, This caused the community to split into 2 groups, the elitist who wished to sell their projects and the guys who thought this was stupid, Well unfortunately this group was again the newbies, so at this point there were only about 5% newcomers that would stay.
5. The community, Filled with elitist and only on a single website where half of the mods were the same, newbies felt threatened, and lost all motivation to continue after finding getting help near impossible.
So now we are down to about .05% newcomers that stay with mapping.
6. The community part 2 - Since most people had either lost their enthusiasm at this point, or had quit and were only sticking around to talk to the other elitist and trash talk newbies, They too started leaving. And with no new influx of newbies coming in growing up to become top mappers, the community as you knew it pretty much died except a very few.
7. All of blizzard attention focusing on E-Sports for 2 years.
NOW lets look as to how this could have been prevented.
1. The editor made simpler.
2. No plans for a map marketplace(this would have killed the plans for the popularity system).
3. Never try to force a merge of the entire community into 1 concentrated area -_- it only causes problems, this should have been obvious.
4. Be a decent and helpful person instead of an elitist.
5. Don't focus on the least popular aspect of your previous game just because it made more money, consider the sales that the most popular aspect earned for the game itself.
So now lets take a look and see what can be done to salvage the community.
1. Browse page, scrambled, top ten list on featured page swapped with top ten newest open games.
2. Any moderation who has lost enthusiasm for the community, be removed from their duties. I wont call out any names though. A body will never move forward if the head is taking a nap.
3. Editor, (Basic Version) Created, This version would have easy create heroes, warcraft 3 style triggers, etc. this editor would automatically change the data so that its in the more advanced editor.
4. The arcade is moved to the new launcher, and made its own platform. Featuring 4 mod packs,Basic, Warcraft, Diablo and starcraft. players will have whichever mod pack depending on which game they own, the basic doesnt require a game at all.
5. Some sort of rewards system is installed for playing arcade projects.
6. The best and brightest mappers get the shovel out of thier ass and start helping and nurturing the newbies so they can become the top mappers of tomorrow.
7. Stop supporting ONLY mapster, go to hive workshop or sen, keep other communities up, there is no reason to be loyal to this site, or any other site. Loyalty will only bring despair and cause more destruction then it will help, centralizing will put a cap on growth.
If those 7 things are done I believe the community would grow exponentially and possibly become many times greater then it was even in its golden age of warcraft 3 (2003-2007).
@Vilgath: Go joined 1 hour ago and seems to know everything about mapster's elitists that trash talk newbies.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. I and many other members have been helping newbies for years now. And even in Blizzard forums, when people ask for help, you can find mapster members providing that help, where even Blizzard employees are mostly unresponsive.
And we have moderators helping newbies (DrSuperEvil is the perfect example), working on big projects (AlMaity, Zeldarules and Mozared working on Starmon as one example). So I feel you may be a little biased here, specially because you decided to make those comments on your very first post.
So, be welcome to mapster, and actually take the time to know it and its community. Be sure that if you have problems with the editor you can find help here.
@Vilgath: Go joined 1 hour ago and seems to know everything about mapster's elitists that trash talk newbies.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. I and many other members have been helping newbies for years now. And even in Blizzard forums, when people ask for help, you can find mapster members providing that help, where even Blizzard employees are mostly unresponsive.
And we have moderators helping newbies (DrSuperEvil is the perfect example), working on big projects (AlMaity, Zeldarules and Mozared working on Starmon as one example). So I feel you may be a little biased here, specially because you decided to make those comments on your very first post.
So, be welcome to mapster, and actually take the time to know it and its community. Be sure that if you have problems with the editor you can find help here.
I think you misunderstood, I was not saying that moderators were bad people or anything, I was saying that a few of them are elitist, who don't help anyone hardly, And that most of them are unenthusiastic about furthering the community, meaning despite trying before they have pretty much given up, Though to be fair this is also true about the bulk of the community. This was just an account so my main doesn't get singled out by those who wish to be vindictive.
5. The community, Filled with elitist and only on a single website where half of the mods were the same, newbies felt threatened, and lost all motivation to continue after finding getting help near impossible.
6. The community part 2 - Since most people had either lost their enthusiasm at this point, or had quit and were only sticking around to talk to the other elitist and trash talk newbies, They too started leaving.
4. Be a decent and helpful person instead of an elitist.
6. The best and brightest mappers get the shovel out of thier ass and start helping and nurturing the newbies so they can become the top mappers of tomorrow.
Considering you included those in the list of reasons SC2 modding went wrong, we are left to assume this problem is stronger here than anywhere else, that if affects most of the "best and brightest mappers" as you said. It sounds like nobody can come to mapster and possibly find help, because the only members left are elitist mappers with no interest in being helpful.
I think you misunderstood, I was not saying that moderators were bad people or anything, I was saying that a few of them are elitist, who don't help anyone hardly, And that most of them are unenthusiastic about furthering the community, meaning despite trying before they have pretty much given up, Though to be fair this is also true about the bulk of the community.
The unpaid job of a moderator is to keep the forums a non-hazardous environment and not to do extraordinary things.
If you want things to change, you need to start to change them yourself and try to motivate people to do the same. Sitting on your backside and waiting for others to do something is the wrong approach. That's what most people are doing.
Also, remember that many people are working on their own projects or on their real life business, so they might have little time available to generously spend for the sc2 modding scene.
As far as moderating goes, I've never had any problem with it and as far as I know only a few people keep being moderated. Just behave, don't swear, don't fight, stay nice, don't troll, make posts that contribute to the topic or the discussion and you won't have any problems.
I haven't been moderated on teamliquid, neither, despite that I've heard that they are super strict there... I don't know what people are doing wrong and then complain about...
The only suggestion about moderators I could make is, that xcorbo could be lifted from his duty as he left SC2 long time ago. Maybe he is still watching, but I don't assume it.
So, to stay on topic, moderators shouldn't be blamed for any kind of state of the arcade. Also, I don't really think that it was too terrible to only support a single page. If that hadn't been done, people would have moved from one forum to the other to inform themselves. This would spread the knowledge over multiple places making it more difficult for new people to learn if they are looking for answers in the wrong place.
You need to know that I didn't like Sixen's aggressive advertisement on the other sites, so I wouldn't have preferred this outcome. But that's how he got the leading people to this site which established the community and basically "won". But now the site has no feature development [list of my own posts in chronological order, pls?] and is as stagnant as staredit.net. I assume the Hiveworkshop is still alive due to WC3 mapmaking still existing as SC2 didn't replace all of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
@FockeWulf: Go
As far as I remember Bnet 2.0 was designed by a team who worked with console games, instead of putting people who designed war3 bnet so no wonder it started that way.
Though I found funny how one guy at work who took a quick glance at me watching a WCS game and asked why the graphics were so cartoony (the map was that Gwangalli Beach) - I don't know... at some terrains (Zerus, Kaldir) you will see the graphics look like a movie but at some other places this cartoonishness is noticable. Still, I haven't seen a difference compared to Dota 2 or any new RTS game to have more realistic graphics, I think they did the best there - combining lesser specs with awesome graphics, if they made the graphics too cinematic, the technical requirements would raise so much that only ppl with best PCs would play them. Besides I've never seen anything better as graphics for an RTS, if someone knows some RTS with better graphics that don't look cartoony feel free to post it, I can't notice such.
Maybe it is because the new terrains give a lot more realism, Blizzard said they were improving them for HotS,. while the majority that remained from WoL has the more cartoony look.
@Eimtr: Go
It's Filipinos, not Philippinoos.
Member since 2010. Made the -The Thing- [Revival] game. Nostalgic of the WC3 days.
It would be nice if Blizzard would tell us how they define mech. So far they've failed to do that.
It won't matter. Since Blizzard hasn't seem to care about the whole MLG thing I think they are showing their arrogant side again.
I only saw 40k and change viewers for on the last day of the WCS. That's a very poor number. And once again no adds made in the North American Region.
Viewer numbers for recent events.
@Ahli634: Go
Exactly.. and in Korea SC2 is already replacing BW entirely, it will live there, In EU there isn't a boom of pro players (some are even retiring) but there is definitely interest in watching these Korean matches.
@FockeWulf: Go
To be fair, they have "defined" it already: source
Nonetheless, you're still right about their lack of inaction on solving mech's problems. These silly buffs that don't actually help and additions like the Viper just keep proving they don't really want mech even though it's exactly what Terran needs right now. I guess the old days of tanks dominating maps like Steppes of War scared the crap out of them to the point that the tank and as a whole, the factory have been made useless as a result.
Well, I guess it's another 3 years of stale biomine until LotV since that's what blizz apparently wants...
http://fuzic.nl/events/338-wcs-am-finals-day-2-premier-season-2-2013/
is the one I watched and I didn't watch the last round.
So those adds are not breaking 75k (to be safe). What is that worth?
I just did some looking in the mechanics of it:
Hulu's adds in this list seem to be the closest match to the type of add, with rates for the add based on CPM.
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/Back-to-Basics-Advertising-Rates-and-Metrics-65329.aspx
http://digiday.com/publishers/what-online-ads-really-cost/
"CPM (Cost Per Thousand). This term actually comes from TV and print, so it could better be termed "number of eyeballs divided by 2" or number of views. Typically it's a price per banner ad plus a guaranteed number of views. A website that charges $15,000 per banner and guarantees 600,000 impressions has a CPM of $25 ($15,000 divided by 600).
These days CPM has fallen dramatically to the $1 range or below for non-targeted static ads on social media websites, although rich or dynamic media ads command a much higher CPM, as do static banners on highly targeted sites."
Now if we take the previously stated Hulu add rate then we come up with:
30 * (75,000/100) = $2250 per add showing.
Is this enough? There are roughly 2 adds per game (shown between games).
If there are 100 games then the net revenue from 1 day tournament is: $225,000. If you add in the costs it takes to host a tournament then this is not nearly enough.
Its really going to depend on what the CPM really goes for. Hulu rates certainly won't cut it.
@FockeWulf: Go
The point is... there are a lot of people watching esports and these events, what they make money is their prob. MLG is far not the end of the world
@Eimtr: Go
Out of the nearly 5 million copies of WoL sold we are down to less than 75k watching ESports. No big deal except Blizzard exclusively focused on ESports while the arcade tanked.
The point I'm making is that it was a really stupid management decision that is not bringing in enough income to justify the effort. Saying ESports is doing "fine" when Blizzard expected it to pull in a significant amount of income (if you take into account fees for hosting tournaments and the fact that they created their own tournament league when no one else is going that route speaks pretty clearly that they expected to be able to make additional income off StarCraft 2's ESports scene.
Making a complaint is fine. Making the exact same complaint in every post you make for weeks gets boring.
I believe he has the right to voice his own opinions. And Blizzard has a penchant for having to be told the same thing repeatedly before they get the message.
Mabye someone should design A unique new game, something original (aka NOT DOTA, or tower defence) Then If it was a truly original ( and fun) game It might pull some popularity back into SC2. I myself have a pretty cool idea for a new(ish) form of game that might work, that I'm working on with a friend. Team Genesis is a really big team, I'm sure if they pooled their effort they could do something like this in a month or two.
kinda of off topic now since the conversation (as it always does on such topics) shifted over to dissing blizzard but I really felt like saying it.
()()()()(sorry for all the parentheses)()()()(()
I actually think some of the top played maps are quite original. Warships for example was quite amazing when I first tried it. Idk if its received as widely as dota was in wc3 though.
Yeah warships is quite original, and I often see a lot of very original game make their way to the front page. However, they almost always fall out of favor very quickly, probably because of a lack of fun (or addicting) gameplay. What I was trying to say with my first post was that I think a new game should be brain stormed and created, with these attributes. Its kinda like with game consoles, where its not the console, but rather the games that make it popular.
When Blizzard killed the modding scene during the beta and the first months of WoL they made sure that the arcade or whatever the name it takes will never gain any momentum.
I was a very active member of the WC3 community during the last years and everyone was looking forward to SC2 as the game that would bring a second golden age of mapping. We knew that Blizzard would probably fuck the engine and the tools up again but since we had fixed up the WC3 tools to a workable state we would just do the same with the SC2 ones. This never happened, during the beta the WC3 communities were buzzing with activity from people releasing alpha software and trying out everything the editor could offer. We were rejoiced to hear that the data editor was saving everything in a XML structure since this meant it would be fairly easy to make our own replacement, same with the language being C based so it actually had some structure instead of the mess that was JASS. Sure we knew we would have to create something like vJASS again and many people were creating their own languages. But all of this died in alpha stages, leaving half finished tools that stopped working as Blizzard updated the game.
The true stumbling block was Battle.net 2.0, but most importantly the popularity system. As all of you should know when SC2 was released the only list for custom games was a popularity list, no open lobbies, no fun or not, nothing. Just a review system, a library and a popularity list.
This meant that if I made a map, made some core functionality and now wanted to test it to get some input and see if any bugs would arise this was impossible. My map was now sitting on page 59 of the popularity list and the only way to find players was to encourage people outside of SC2 to try to join the map through the library or click through all the pages. There wasn't even chat channels in the game were you could encourage the public to join your game. Right here almost all the modders just gave up, the smart ones didn't even try to make a map and the stupid ones never got their map played once.
Sure it is easy to complain about the editor and some stupid bugs, but that was not the thing that killed SC2, those hurdles could be overcome with time and patience, sure the quality might not have been the greatest in the beginning, but attempts at making maps and refining them would still exist and most importantly, get played.
The point I am trying to make is that many of the experienced WC3 mappers picked up other programming languages (me included) and we tried to fix the SC2 editor, but since we all realized no one would be there to use our work or play the maps created with them we gave up and left our projects to die. For examples see the external IDE Moonlite or the Andromeda progrmaming language, there's many more examples out there.
And this is where the community is still stuck today, instead of fixing the errors Blizzard make the community spends days and nights complaining about petty stuff because the people who had the knowledge to fix the errors through 3rd party tools are long gone. It is the same with documentation, WC3 never had any documentation at all, we created it through trial and error, and that was the direction this community also was headed towards during the beta with the famous youtube tutorials and the Wikis set up by almost all WC3 modding sites and SC2 mapster, but that never came to fruition because the smart people who were able to do it because of previous experience from WC3, BW and other games left too early for their work to be finished and today there's almost nothing.
Here is what happened to get us here, so lets take a quick look back.
1. Curse and Blizzard came into a deal so that only mapster was supported, This caused Hive workshop, Sen and a few others to pretty much have no chance, so some people switched, the rest just quit.
2. People realized that the editor was too difficult to understand when starting/took to long to do simple task, This caused a few top people to leave and pretty much salted the earth to prevent newbies from coming, so now. this knocked down newbies to about 10-20% of what they would have been)
3. The arcade(as it is now called), was found to be a terrible system that was built only for the promise of the map marketplace. (This was confirmed when someone asked a blizzard dev about it in the IRC).
4. The map marketplace was promised, This caused the community to split into 2 groups, the elitist who wished to sell their projects and the guys who thought this was stupid, Well unfortunately this group was again the newbies, so at this point there were only about 5% newcomers that would stay.
5. The community, Filled with elitist and only on a single website where half of the mods were the same, newbies felt threatened, and lost all motivation to continue after finding getting help near impossible.
So now we are down to about .05% newcomers that stay with mapping.
6. The community part 2 - Since most people had either lost their enthusiasm at this point, or had quit and were only sticking around to talk to the other elitist and trash talk newbies, They too started leaving. And with no new influx of newbies coming in growing up to become top mappers, the community as you knew it pretty much died except a very few.
7. All of blizzard attention focusing on E-Sports for 2 years.
NOW lets look as to how this could have been prevented.
1. The editor made simpler.
2. No plans for a map marketplace(this would have killed the plans for the popularity system).
3. Never try to force a merge of the entire community into 1 concentrated area -_- it only causes problems, this should have been obvious.
4. Be a decent and helpful person instead of an elitist.
5. Don't focus on the least popular aspect of your previous game just because it made more money, consider the sales that the most popular aspect earned for the game itself.
So now lets take a look and see what can be done to salvage the community.
1. Browse page, scrambled, top ten list on featured page swapped with top ten newest open games.
2. Any moderation who has lost enthusiasm for the community, be removed from their duties. I wont call out any names though. A body will never move forward if the head is taking a nap.
3. Editor, (Basic Version) Created, This version would have easy create heroes, warcraft 3 style triggers, etc. this editor would automatically change the data so that its in the more advanced editor.
4. The arcade is moved to the new launcher, and made its own platform. Featuring 4 mod packs,Basic, Warcraft, Diablo and starcraft. players will have whichever mod pack depending on which game they own, the basic doesnt require a game at all.
5. Some sort of rewards system is installed for playing arcade projects.
6. The best and brightest mappers get the shovel out of thier ass and start helping and nurturing the newbies so they can become the top mappers of tomorrow.
7. Stop supporting ONLY mapster, go to hive workshop or sen, keep other communities up, there is no reason to be loyal to this site, or any other site. Loyalty will only bring despair and cause more destruction then it will help, centralizing will put a cap on growth.
If those 7 things are done I believe the community would grow exponentially and possibly become many times greater then it was even in its golden age of warcraft 3 (2003-2007).
@Vilgath: Go joined 1 hour ago and seems to know everything about mapster's elitists that trash talk newbies.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. I and many other members have been helping newbies for years now. And even in Blizzard forums, when people ask for help, you can find mapster members providing that help, where even Blizzard employees are mostly unresponsive.
And we have moderators helping newbies (DrSuperEvil is the perfect example), working on big projects (AlMaity, Zeldarules and Mozared working on Starmon as one example). So I feel you may be a little biased here, specially because you decided to make those comments on your very first post.
So, be welcome to mapster, and actually take the time to know it and its community. Be sure that if you have problems with the editor you can find help here.
I think you misunderstood, I was not saying that moderators were bad people or anything, I was saying that a few of them are elitist, who don't help anyone hardly, And that most of them are unenthusiastic about furthering the community, meaning despite trying before they have pretty much given up, Though to be fair this is also true about the bulk of the community. This was just an account so my main doesn't get singled out by those who wish to be vindictive.
@Vilgath: Go No, I don't think I misunderstood. Your post clearly allows for that interpretation.
Considering you included those in the list of reasons SC2 modding went wrong, we are left to assume this problem is stronger here than anywhere else, that if affects most of the "best and brightest mappers" as you said. It sounds like nobody can come to mapster and possibly find help, because the only members left are elitist mappers with no interest in being helpful.
EDIT
That's... really interesting, because I know of a few members that have this "problem" with "vindictive" moderators.
The unpaid job of a moderator is to keep the forums a non-hazardous environment and not to do extraordinary things.
If you want things to change, you need to start to change them yourself and try to motivate people to do the same. Sitting on your backside and waiting for others to do something is the wrong approach. That's what most people are doing.
Also, remember that many people are working on their own projects or on their real life business, so they might have little time available to generously spend for the sc2 modding scene.
As far as moderating goes, I've never had any problem with it and as far as I know only a few people keep being moderated. Just behave, don't swear, don't fight, stay nice, don't troll, make posts that contribute to the topic or the discussion and you won't have any problems.
I haven't been moderated on teamliquid, neither, despite that I've heard that they are super strict there... I don't know what people are doing wrong and then complain about...
The only suggestion about moderators I could make is, that xcorbo could be lifted from his duty as he left SC2 long time ago. Maybe he is still watching, but I don't assume it.
So, to stay on topic, moderators shouldn't be blamed for any kind of state of the arcade. Also, I don't really think that it was too terrible to only support a single page. If that hadn't been done, people would have moved from one forum to the other to inform themselves. This would spread the knowledge over multiple places making it more difficult for new people to learn if they are looking for answers in the wrong place.
You need to know that I didn't like Sixen's aggressive advertisement on the other sites, so I wouldn't have preferred this outcome. But that's how he got the leading people to this site which established the community and basically "won". But now the site has no feature development [list of my own posts in chronological order, pls?] and is as stagnant as staredit.net. I assume the Hiveworkshop is still alive due to WC3 mapmaking still existing as SC2 didn't replace all of it.