YES PEOPLE. The system is NOT ideal for us, as mapmakers. Complaining about it on the mapster forums will do absolutely nothing. And we certainly don't need 6 threads about it >.>
If you have to ,make a nice, organized, polite thread on the blizzard forums. And then wait, because blizzard is working on it . Theyre going to make some big changes with Heart of the swarm and the marketplace. Blizzard takes a while; that's just the way they are.
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YES PEOPLE. The system is NOT ideal for us, as mapmakers. Complaining
about it on the mapster forums will do absolutely nothing . And we
certainly don't need 6 threads about it >.>
If you have to ,make a nice, organized, polite thread on the blizzard
forums. And then wait, because blizzard is working on it . Theyre going
to make some big changes with Heart of the swarm and the marketplace.
Blizzard takes a while; that's just the way they are.
I've read though most of the post made so far and this is what i've come up with.
About the Thread
The Thread contains 2 ideas making the discussion hard to follow.
1. Personal view of complainers
2. Help me with tutorials
Over all your post was well written although it should have been 2 threads.
To Whiners
I will sympathize with the complainers. As a casual mapper I can not play my map with multiple people very easily. I dont care about my maps popularity. Although what zeldarules28 said is correct and complaining is not going to make blizzard work any faster.
About Helping
As far as the helping on tutorials sorry i'm busy.
Personal Note
(personally i find the moderators to be great people with weak enforcement)
(personally i find the moderators to be great people with weak enforcement)
We already have an enforcement at the Blizzard forums that bans anything suggesting that they aren't doing right. We don't need a strong enforcement inside our own community. This is our home, not a dictatorship. It's through arguing and fighting that we understand each other, and not by imposing silence.
Marine Protocol is fun as Hell but I never would have found it if I wasn't just randomly picking maps past page 10. And I probably won't play it again after reaching level 6 because I can't get anyone in a game to make it go on past night 5.
As far as the Mods having weak enforcement, it could swing the other way and it could be like the TL forums where they ban you b/c "you could have google searched it". I prefer a lax environment where it doesn't feel like you have a Forum Nazi over your shoulder ready to whack your hands with a ruler for having a bit of fun on the forums.
Indeed. We've never been super strict around here. Blizzard is like that because they have a GIANT community, and they cannot manage all the different people. For the most part, we all know everybody else here, and it's more of a community than blizzard's forums. Most of the time you guys behave pretty well, anyways. ;)
But don't abuse that lenience, or we may have to retract it ;)
I play a lot of custom maps, usually 10-15 hours per week. I hated the old system. I love the new system. I know it's bad for mappers, but there are very few maps below page 1 worth playing anyway.
Really? As a player I actually despise not being able to hop on and find random new games every time (like i had in past blizz games). But I do like a lot of features in the new system too (especially as a mapper)... just I don't really feel like playing any of the same custom games so I don't get a chance to use it.
Make some thing that has not been made before and at the same time is fun THEN you can participate.
/thread
This is true. Between EU and US I've had about 5-6 original maps of mine on page 1. Some lasted longer than others, but ultimately because my maps get tiring after a while they fell down. The thing is though, they fall COMPLETELY down because there is no way to play games when they're not popular (and no incentive, ie sitting in lobby for 8 hours). As bad as people say War3 was with DOTA, I was still able to go on and host 'line tower wars' and there would be people willing to sift between the DOTA's and play it with me.
From my legitimate experience I find that you basically go from nothing to everything and then back to nothing. There isn't much of an in-between with the popularity system. The key thing is keeping players repeating your map and if you can, make it dynamic (ie player vs player).
The new system (imo) makes it easier for maps to 'go big' and stay big... it was quite hard in war3... but we can't let go of the fact that for any game you felt like playing, you could probably get it going within minutes.
I'm glad someone finally presented a well-worded, positive post on the subject.
Seriously, you guys all spend months and years on your projects. You can't appreciate that Blizzard's a big ship that takes time to move?
Ideas are cheap. Implementation is costly and time-consuming. You guys as map-makers and, essentially amateur game developers, should understand this better than anyone.
Anyway, my schedule tends to be pretty up-in-the-air, but I'm all for trying to spend more time offering assistance in the help sections and feedback in the project section. Thanks to PM for trying to give the community a shove in the right direction :)
You can't appreciate that Blizzard's a big ship that takes time to move?
Is this an effing joke?
I personally am shocked anyone is really STILL defending Blizzard a year later with no word or improvements at all. There is/should be no debate anymore, if you defend Blizzard at this point well... i feel sorry for you. I think its time we all just stop arguing over a cause that was lost a loooong time ago and move on. Steam has lots of indie games for cheap that are alot more fun then page 1 maps so i would suggest investing a few bucks into that.
yes I'm a noob for posting something to a reply that you edited after I posted... Well done.
As for being shocked that we are defending blizzard, you miss the point, nobody here is defending them, none of us agree whole heartedly with bnet 2.0 either, Proziac made a post telling people to stop whining and rather than bitch and moan on these forums which gets nobody anywhere, he had put forward a proposition to aid mapmakers on this forums a chance of having a more popular map on the current system. That is all.
Honestly, I doubt that the reason they are taking so long to implement any changes is due to "the boat taking a long time to turn". Remember, Blizzard is always working on WoW, they are working on HotS, they are working on D3 and they are also working on their new MMO. I don't think it's an issue of them taking a long time to fix, it's an issue of them waiting for HotS and the Map Market before taking the time to do anything.
So in the interim, we need things like this to focus us and ideas like Rodrigo's map of the week. If we take matters into our own hands then we don't have to wait for Blizzard.
In the event they ever get around to releasing the tools necessary to appropriately create custom maps, then they can get some amount of praise. Until then I fail to see why they should be defended at all.
How long has it been since SCII was first started in development? Then they can't even finish all of it in their essentially unlimited time frame so release a sub-par product that barely works and isn't even the complete game, and the subsequent expansions for SCII will probably be at the same price with minor perks that should have already been included that probably won't work properly until the last game is released.
Which brings me back to the excitement of my project...
Honestly, I doubt that the reason they are taking so long to implement
any changes is due to "the boat taking a long time to turn". Remember,
Blizzard is always working on WoW, they are working on HotS, they are
working on D3 and they are also working on their new MMO. I don't think
it's an issue of them taking a long time to fix, it's an issue of them
waiting for HotS and the Map Market before taking the time to do
anything.
So in the interim, we need things like this to focus us and ideas like
Rodrigo's map of the week. If we take matters into our own hands then we
don't have to wait for Blizzard.
Honestly, anything that involves this community getting together to do something is complete fail on the US side that is. We couldnt even keep up a fucking map night once a week for more then a month. Meanwhile EU is still going strong and having a blast, why cant i live in Europe with Eiviyn!
I think mapnight is the reason why Iv come to almost accept the system. Its enough for me to go to play sc2 once a week...and in the recent mapnights iv seen some great new maps!
I did actually manage to get like 3 games of testing yesterday too :O...took only like 1h of begging total.
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Curse Premium@Bounty_98: Go
YES PEOPLE. The system is NOT ideal for us, as mapmakers. Complaining about it on the mapster forums will do absolutely nothing . And we certainly don't need 6 threads about it >.>
If you have to ,make a nice, organized, polite thread on the blizzard forums. And then wait, because blizzard is working on it . Theyre going to make some big changes with Heart of the swarm and the marketplace. Blizzard takes a while; that's just the way they are.
Oh no you didnt!
Response to the Thread Post
I've read though most of the post made so far and this is what i've come up with.
About the Thread
The Thread contains 2 ideas making the discussion hard to follow.
1. Personal view of complainers
2. Help me with tutorials
Over all your post was well written although it should have been 2 threads.
To Whiners
I will sympathize with the complainers. As a casual mapper I can not play my map with multiple people very easily. I dont care about my maps popularity. Although what zeldarules28 said is correct and complaining is not going to make blizzard work any faster.
About Helping
As far as the helping on tutorials sorry i'm busy.
Personal Note
(personally i find the moderators to be great people with weak enforcement)
We already have an enforcement at the Blizzard forums that bans anything suggesting that they aren't doing right. We don't need a strong enforcement inside our own community. This is our home, not a dictatorship. It's through arguing and fighting that we understand each other, and not by imposing silence.
@gamemore: Go
Marine Protocol is fun as Hell but I never would have found it if I wasn't just randomly picking maps past page 10. And I probably won't play it again after reaching level 6 because I can't get anyone in a game to make it go on past night 5.
As far as the Mods having weak enforcement, it could swing the other way and it could be like the TL forums where they ban you b/c "you could have google searched it". I prefer a lax environment where it doesn't feel like you have a Forum Nazi over your shoulder ready to whack your hands with a ruler for having a bit of fun on the forums.
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Curse Premium@RodrigoAlves: Go
Indeed. We've never been super strict around here. Blizzard is like that because they have a GIANT community, and they cannot manage all the different people. For the most part, we all know everybody else here, and it's more of a community than blizzard's forums. Most of the time you guys behave pretty well, anyways. ;)
But don't abuse that lenience, or we may have to retract it ;)
@Vortexx2010: Go
Yup. Or get banned for double posting once.
Lol I've triple posted before. Didn't know it was a rule.
@Vortexx2010: Go
Yeah I saw your post on my maps thread. Thanks for testing it.
Really? As a player I actually despise not being able to hop on and find random new games every time (like i had in past blizz games). But I do like a lot of features in the new system too (especially as a mapper)... just I don't really feel like playing any of the same custom games so I don't get a chance to use it.
This is true. Between EU and US I've had about 5-6 original maps of mine on page 1. Some lasted longer than others, but ultimately because my maps get tiring after a while they fell down. The thing is though, they fall COMPLETELY down because there is no way to play games when they're not popular (and no incentive, ie sitting in lobby for 8 hours). As bad as people say War3 was with DOTA, I was still able to go on and host 'line tower wars' and there would be people willing to sift between the DOTA's and play it with me.
From my legitimate experience I find that you basically go from nothing to everything and then back to nothing. There isn't much of an in-between with the popularity system. The key thing is keeping players repeating your map and if you can, make it dynamic (ie player vs player).
The new system (imo) makes it easier for maps to 'go big' and stay big... it was quite hard in war3... but we can't let go of the fact that for any game you felt like playing, you could probably get it going within minutes.
Let this be a lesson to the mods. If you want a flame war thread to stop just get onetwo to give his opinion on the topic of said thread.
That guy knows f*cking EVERYTHING!
I'm for the collab tutorial making.
Whatever you do, wholeheartedly, moment by heartfelt moment, becomes a tool for the expression of your very soul.
I'm glad someone finally presented a well-worded, positive post on the subject.
Seriously, you guys all spend months and years on your projects. You can't appreciate that Blizzard's a big ship that takes time to move?
Ideas are cheap. Implementation is costly and time-consuming. You guys as map-makers and, essentially amateur game developers, should understand this better than anyone.
Anyway, my schedule tends to be pretty up-in-the-air, but I'm all for trying to spend more time offering assistance in the help sections and feedback in the project section. Thanks to PM for trying to give the community a shove in the right direction :)
Is this an effing joke?
I personally am shocked anyone is really STILL defending Blizzard a year later with no word or improvements at all. There is/should be no debate anymore, if you defend Blizzard at this point well... i feel sorry for you. I think its time we all just stop arguing over a cause that was lost a loooong time ago and move on. Steam has lots of indie games for cheap that are alot more fun then page 1 maps so i would suggest investing a few bucks into that.
@Bounty_98: Go
No your thoughts/comments to this whole thread are
see my now edited post. noob. :)
@Bounty_98: Go
yes I'm a noob for posting something to a reply that you edited after I posted... Well done.
As for being shocked that we are defending blizzard, you miss the point, nobody here is defending them, none of us agree whole heartedly with bnet 2.0 either, Proziac made a post telling people to stop whining and rather than bitch and moan on these forums which gets nobody anywhere, he had put forward a proposition to aid mapmakers on this forums a chance of having a more popular map on the current system. That is all.
Honestly, I doubt that the reason they are taking so long to implement any changes is due to "the boat taking a long time to turn". Remember, Blizzard is always working on WoW, they are working on HotS, they are working on D3 and they are also working on their new MMO. I don't think it's an issue of them taking a long time to fix, it's an issue of them waiting for HotS and the Map Market before taking the time to do anything.
So in the interim, we need things like this to focus us and ideas like Rodrigo's map of the week. If we take matters into our own hands then we don't have to wait for Blizzard.
In the event they ever get around to releasing the tools necessary to appropriately create custom maps, then they can get some amount of praise. Until then I fail to see why they should be defended at all.
How long has it been since SCII was first started in development? Then they can't even finish all of it in their essentially unlimited time frame so release a sub-par product that barely works and isn't even the complete game, and the subsequent expansions for SCII will probably be at the same price with minor perks that should have already been included that probably won't work properly until the last game is released.
Which brings me back to the excitement of my project...
Honestly, anything that involves this community getting together to do something is complete fail on the US side that is. We couldnt even keep up a fucking map night once a week for more then a month. Meanwhile EU is still going strong and having a blast, why cant i live in Europe with Eiviyn!
@Bounty_98: Go
Haha.
I think mapnight is the reason why Iv come to almost accept the system. Its enough for me to go to play sc2 once a week...and in the recent mapnights iv seen some great new maps!
I did actually manage to get like 3 games of testing yesterday too :O...took only like 1h of begging total.