you know to fix the system...? I know you said on the blizzard site something on the thread "does blizzard care" i am curious though to what you think it needs to be fixed... let me know what you think if you have the time or feel like it... i know it might get fixed in heart of the swarm but i don't know when... exactly btw to those who feel like flaming this thread, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM IT... k thanks. edited: btw i am just searching for an answer...
Errr..... Did you watch me and TheAlmaity do the 2011 Blizzcon coverage extravaganza? We covered all the stuff they're doing to help the popularity system. If you missed it, I wrote a few articles. The one about the popularity system is here.
oh ok so what i saw on the custom map fix on blizzcon is true? well i hope it works cause otherwise sc2 may become crap due to people spamming horrible maps . spam might not be the correct word though actually... i mean the word create... seriously though i hope it works to fix the system. heart of the swarm may be more worth it then i thought... btw are they really adding sc1 models to sc2 among other stuff? like it said in that post you linked too.
I have a question on the topic of the "arcade" that is yet to be answered. I asked it on the battle.net forums and it was overlooked. I would assume what the answer is, but I would like to make sure:
The map maker is the one who gets to decide if he wants to sell a game for cash, correct? Blizzard doesn't just take a map from the top of the list and say "People like this, we can profit from it."
Equally, does a game need a certain level of popularity in order to be put on the marketplace? to keep people from putting blank maps on there for cheap; hoping that someone purchases it by accident? Mainly, is there a way to prevent the marketplace from being flooded by garbage?
also, for people too lazy to read that post; or search it well; the best thing blizzard is doing to remedy to popularity system is raising maps that have had people sitting in the lobby for a while up the queue list. Not amazing; but it means that if you want to play an unpopular game, there is a chance to if you feel like sitting in the lobby a while.
the problem I do see with that though, would be if a bot could be made to sit in a games lobby until it fills, then leave the lobby. This would be the equal of bot hosting, and if abused could cause terrible games to sit at the top of the lobby list.
The map maker is the one who gets to decide if he wants to sell a game for cash, correct? Blizzard doesn't just take a map from the top of the list and say "People like this, we can profit from it."
Equally, does a game need a certain level of popularity in order to be put on the marketplace? to keep people from putting blank maps on there for cheap; hoping that someone purchases it by accident? Mainly, is there a way to prevent the marketplace from being flooded by garbage?
No offense meant, but you don't understand the idea of the Marketplace. This isn't how it works. The idea existing so far is that you, if you want to get your map out there, send Blizzard a map to put on the marketplace. If they consider it interesting enough they'll contact you and you'll get to make a deal about when, how, and for how much your map gets put on the marketplace.
The basic idea is that you communicate with them, and if they consider your map good enough and you both agree to a number of things, you'll get to sell your map. It isn't a system in which any moron can create a footman wars 2.0 and just 'put it up there' for 200 dollars, nor is it a system where you have to make your map popular before you gain access to the marketplace.
Well actually, the Arcade will just be a revamped system of what we're using now. Anyone can put maps on the Arcade. To sell premium maps, Blizzard hasn't really outlined how it'll work, other than the fact that there will be some sort of criteria.
Way way back when it was said that in order to be in the marketplace you had to use your own assets. I'm 99% positive of this but can't remember where I heard it... it was among initial announcements for SC2 / marketplace...
(I could see it being possible to use Blizzard assets, but I bet they would take a [much] larger cut)
It is still too early in the day to even try and comprehend the marketplace, especially as I have no doubt Blizzard at this moment are just going through revision after revision changing everything, like they always do.
The idea of premium maps if up to a benchmark of quality shouldn't scare anyone, you should be proud to support your map makers.
As of this moment I have seen three projects personally that I would consider a premium map. (There is another one but the name escapes me).
Starcraft Universe
Tofu
The total conversion with the tanks.
So if we narrow this down, there are only two projects there that I would pay for;
Tofu, (Forget for a moment that I am part of the project), this is the kind of map that I like to play, hence why I made it, but also this is the kind of level that I expect premium maps to be; we are using Blizzard base assets for spell animation and models, but everything else is custom. This is very much my 'type' of game that I would love to play over say Dota II or HoN, simply because I have been playing Dota for going on 9 years? I am bored of that specific AoS laned map.
The Total Conversion with tanks, I would _probably_ pay for this, depending on how good it is done. From the moment all I have seen are custom models, we have no idea of gameplay or UI ... so this would really need a 'free' demo to test it to see that A, I like this, or B, this has potential. Keep in mind that I do not really like the way that Starcraft II plays as an RTS, it is the king of RTS games no doubt, but it is just simply not my style. This one could possibly be more to my liking, but time will tell.
So this leaves SCU; I would not pay for SCU ... not because it is a bad map, it is awesome and I have the upmost respect for Ryan above nearly all other people here, but it is simply not my type of game ... I have never played WoW and have no inclination to do so, at the same time I believe for that type of game that the Starcraft II platform is limiting, especially without server-side banks, also that the world can only be 'so' big before the map is full and you have no where else to explore ... these problems could possibly be fixed in the future but as it stands they are problems on this day. Also, being in Australia playing on NA I get huge delay issues with SCU (or any WASD/Server based camera movement maps) which ruins the experience for me.
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@ Saucy;
The amount of Blizzard assets used would possibly be the key question. In Tofu, we have to use Blizzard's base spell animations and models (Although quite a few models are reskinned) simply because neither Dryeyece or I have the skills to create our own 3D models. Everyone specialises in different things and though Dryeyece has basic 3D Modelling knowledge, as do I, it is no where near the level needed to create really amazing models like Blizzard. 2D UI Art on the other hand, I am just as skilled as Blizzard's artists, although Tofu vs Sc2 are completely different styles and its hard to judge one to the other.
So if we were denied eligibility for Premium status because of our use of Blizzard's base models, it would possibly set a landmark case to deny nearly every other map that will ever be created, save perhaps for the total conversion. We have tried to seperate the unique look of Tofu from Starcraft II, but for example, the Queen bitch of the universe still looks like the Queen bitch of the universe, Pyro still looks like a Firebat Merc, with abiet a little bit better HDR lava skinning.
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Back on topic of premium maps, there are a list of maps that whilst being popular, should never ever be even considered eligable for Premium status;
Desert Strike(Nothing unique, fun but its just basically 100% Sc2)
Nexus Wars(Nothing unique, fun but its just basically 100% Sc2)
Mineralz(I loved Mineralz in the beginning when I could troll, now disabled it isn't fun, if it had 100% custom UI, new textures on the models then sure, it could reach premium, but it would need a shitload of polishing)
Hero Attack(Basically all Blizzard assets, nothing special)
SOTIS(Basically all Blizzard assets, nothing special)
Squadron TD(Basically a 100% copy from Wc3, clones should be prohibited, unique ideas should strive)
Galaxy Vampirism(This is basically a really bad copy of Vamp from Wc3 ... if they added a shitload of new features, new UI and polished it to all hell and back, then why not)
Zealot Frenzy(Close enough to a clone that it shouldn't be allowed)
Special Forces(Basically all Blizzard assets, no where near even beginning to be polished)
Now we get to Star Battle
If they created a really cool UI for Star Battle instead of using default dialogs and Sc2 UI, then I would 100% support this being considered a premium map, but as it stands at this moment, there is just simply no where near enough polishing on the project to warrant it ... even though it was once called "Dota in Space" - which I think is an insult to Star Battle but an awesome pulicity campaign at the time - it is nothing like Dota and that should be it's selling point. It is a new, unique and innovative idea that really plays on the strength of Sc2 - being set in space.
I could keep going but I reakon I am gonna get flamed enough for even creating this list ... bring it mofos <3
Desert Strike is actually close to a clone of sc1's but it is still fun. and some maps should be cloned... like parasite but yea every other map on the list you mentioned sucks. for two reasons... one they are made for the most gosu pros out there and have no learning curve especially zealot frenzy but yea premium maps aren't a good idea... for the most part... oh and reason number 2 was they getting annoying real fast.
I only happens from time to time, but I find myself agreeing fully with Dogmai there. We can't say anything about the marketplace yet for sure since Blizz is probably still revising it, current top popularity maps wouldn't be worth putting on the marketplace and premium maps really shouldn't scare you; if they do, you should be one hell of a paranoid person living in a free market economy.
As of this moment I have seen three projects personally that I would consider a premium map. (There is another one but the name escapes me).
Starcraft Universe
Tofu
The total conversion with the tanks.
The total conversion with the tanks is called project Subsistence, and I'm thinking the other one you might be talking about is Fields of Glory, which that map that's basically an alternate form of AoS (with capturing control points) and is made out of 90% custom medieval models. I'm thinking there might be more if you put some thought into it, and there's a lot of maps that are very close (Hive Keeper, though with it being virtually copied from the Dungeon Keeper game I'm not sure if a map like that could ever be sold).
No map I've seen is in the quality of a premium map. Custom assets alone shouldn't miraculously get a map to premium status if its gameplay is too similar to maps made in the past. In my opinion, every map in the top 3 popularity pages doesn't have the gameplay unique enough for premium.
So by my standards, I'd think you'd have better chances of making more money if you just create something from scratch (or using free engines as a base) instead of using the severely limiting SC2 editor. If I'm gonna spend so much time making custom assets, I wouldn't spend the time making them for SC2. I just don't trust Blizzard with these kinds of things, not to mention the horrendous security for maps in bnet. I'd imagine they improve the security for premium maps but I don't think it's gonna work too well considering they still couldn't fix basic problems with the custom map system after a year and half.
you know to fix the system...? I know you said on the blizzard site something on the thread "does blizzard care" i am curious though to what you think it needs to be fixed... let me know what you think if you have the time or feel like it... i know it might get fixed in heart of the swarm but i don't know when... exactly btw to those who feel like flaming this thread, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM IT... k thanks. edited: btw i am just searching for an answer...
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Curse Premium@XenoYoxa: Go
Errr..... Did you watch me and TheAlmaity do the 2011 Blizzcon coverage extravaganza? We covered all the stuff they're doing to help the popularity system. If you missed it, I wrote a few articles. The one about the popularity system is here.
@zeldarules28: Go
oh ok so what i saw on the custom map fix on blizzcon is true? well i hope it works cause otherwise sc2 may become crap due to people spamming horrible maps . spam might not be the correct word though actually... i mean the word create... seriously though i hope it works to fix the system. heart of the swarm may be more worth it then i thought... btw are they really adding sc1 models to sc2 among other stuff? like it said in that post you linked too.
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Curse PremiumI have a question on the topic of the "arcade" that is yet to be answered. I asked it on the battle.net forums and it was overlooked. I would assume what the answer is, but I would like to make sure:
The map maker is the one who gets to decide if he wants to sell a game for cash, correct? Blizzard doesn't just take a map from the top of the list and say "People like this, we can profit from it."
Equally, does a game need a certain level of popularity in order to be put on the marketplace? to keep people from putting blank maps on there for cheap; hoping that someone purchases it by accident? Mainly, is there a way to prevent the marketplace from being flooded by garbage?
also, for people too lazy to read that post; or search it well; the best thing blizzard is doing to remedy to popularity system is raising maps that have had people sitting in the lobby for a while up the queue list. Not amazing; but it means that if you want to play an unpopular game, there is a chance to if you feel like sitting in the lobby a while.
the problem I do see with that though, would be if a bot could be made to sit in a games lobby until it fills, then leave the lobby. This would be the equal of bot hosting, and if abused could cause terrible games to sit at the top of the lobby list.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
No offense meant, but you don't understand the idea of the Marketplace. This isn't how it works. The idea existing so far is that you, if you want to get your map out there, send Blizzard a map to put on the marketplace. If they consider it interesting enough they'll contact you and you'll get to make a deal about when, how, and for how much your map gets put on the marketplace.
The basic idea is that you communicate with them, and if they consider your map good enough and you both agree to a number of things, you'll get to sell your map. It isn't a system in which any moron can create a footman wars 2.0 and just 'put it up there' for 200 dollars, nor is it a system where you have to make your map popular before you gain access to the marketplace.
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ModeratorsWell actually, the Arcade will just be a revamped system of what we're using now. Anyone can put maps on the Arcade. To sell premium maps, Blizzard hasn't really outlined how it'll work, other than the fact that there will be some sort of criteria.
@Sixen: Go
the idea of premium maps still scares me.
@Sixen: Go
well i hope it works if it does i might be more inclined to buy heart of the swarm and legacy of the void.
me too dude me too... lol.
Way way back when it was said that in order to be in the marketplace you had to use your own assets. I'm 99% positive of this but can't remember where I heard it... it was among initial announcements for SC2 / marketplace...
(I could see it being possible to use Blizzard assets, but I bet they would take a [much] larger cut)
It is still too early in the day to even try and comprehend the marketplace, especially as I have no doubt Blizzard at this moment are just going through revision after revision changing everything, like they always do.
The idea of premium maps if up to a benchmark of quality shouldn't scare anyone, you should be proud to support your map makers.
As of this moment I have seen three projects personally that I would consider a premium map. (There is another one but the name escapes me).
So if we narrow this down, there are only two projects there that I would pay for;
Tofu, (Forget for a moment that I am part of the project), this is the kind of map that I like to play, hence why I made it, but also this is the kind of level that I expect premium maps to be; we are using Blizzard base assets for spell animation and models, but everything else is custom. This is very much my 'type' of game that I would love to play over say Dota II or HoN, simply because I have been playing Dota for going on 9 years? I am bored of that specific AoS laned map.
The Total Conversion with tanks, I would _probably_ pay for this, depending on how good it is done. From the moment all I have seen are custom models, we have no idea of gameplay or UI ... so this would really need a 'free' demo to test it to see that A, I like this, or B, this has potential. Keep in mind that I do not really like the way that Starcraft II plays as an RTS, it is the king of RTS games no doubt, but it is just simply not my style. This one could possibly be more to my liking, but time will tell.
So this leaves SCU; I would not pay for SCU ... not because it is a bad map, it is awesome and I have the upmost respect for Ryan above nearly all other people here, but it is simply not my type of game ... I have never played WoW and have no inclination to do so, at the same time I believe for that type of game that the Starcraft II platform is limiting, especially without server-side banks, also that the world can only be 'so' big before the map is full and you have no where else to explore ... these problems could possibly be fixed in the future but as it stands they are problems on this day. Also, being in Australia playing on NA I get huge delay issues with SCU (or any WASD/Server based camera movement maps) which ruins the experience for me.
-@ Saucy;
The amount of Blizzard assets used would possibly be the key question. In Tofu, we have to use Blizzard's base spell animations and models (Although quite a few models are reskinned) simply because neither Dryeyece or I have the skills to create our own 3D models. Everyone specialises in different things and though Dryeyece has basic 3D Modelling knowledge, as do I, it is no where near the level needed to create really amazing models like Blizzard. 2D UI Art on the other hand, I am just as skilled as Blizzard's artists, although Tofu vs Sc2 are completely different styles and its hard to judge one to the other.
So if we were denied eligibility for Premium status because of our use of Blizzard's base models, it would possibly set a landmark case to deny nearly every other map that will ever be created, save perhaps for the total conversion. We have tried to seperate the unique look of Tofu from Starcraft II, but for example, the Queen bitch of the universe still looks like the Queen bitch of the universe, Pyro still looks like a Firebat Merc, with abiet a little bit better HDR lava skinning.
-Back on topic of premium maps, there are a list of maps that whilst being popular, should never ever be even considered eligable for Premium status;
Desert Strike (Nothing unique, fun but its just basically 100% Sc2)
Nexus Wars (Nothing unique, fun but its just basically 100% Sc2)
Mineralz (I loved Mineralz in the beginning when I could troll, now disabled it isn't fun, if it had 100% custom UI, new textures on the models then sure, it could reach premium, but it would need a shitload of polishing)
Hero Attack (Basically all Blizzard assets, nothing special)
SOTIS (Basically all Blizzard assets, nothing special)
Squadron TD (Basically a 100% copy from Wc3, clones should be prohibited, unique ideas should strive)
Galaxy Vampirism (This is basically a really bad copy of Vamp from Wc3 ... if they added a shitload of new features, new UI and polished it to all hell and back, then why not)
Zealot Frenzy (Close enough to a clone that it shouldn't be allowed)
Special Forces (Basically all Blizzard assets, no where near even beginning to be polished)
Now we get to Star Battle
If they created a really cool UI for Star Battle instead of using default dialogs and Sc2 UI, then I would 100% support this being considered a premium map, but as it stands at this moment, there is just simply no where near enough polishing on the project to warrant it ... even though it was once called "Dota in Space" - which I think is an insult to Star Battle but an awesome pulicity campaign at the time - it is nothing like Dota and that should be it's selling point. It is a new, unique and innovative idea that really plays on the strength of Sc2 - being set in space.
I could keep going but I reakon I am gonna get flamed enough for even creating this list ... bring it mofos <3
:D
@DogmaiSEA: Go
Desert Strike is actually close to a clone of sc1's but it is still fun. and some maps should be cloned... like parasite but yea every other map on the list you mentioned sucks. for two reasons... one they are made for the most gosu pros out there and have no learning curve especially zealot frenzy but yea premium maps aren't a good idea... for the most part... oh and reason number 2 was they getting annoying real fast.
I only happens from time to time, but I find myself agreeing fully with Dogmai there. We can't say anything about the marketplace yet for sure since Blizz is probably still revising it, current top popularity maps wouldn't be worth putting on the marketplace and premium maps really shouldn't scare you; if they do, you should be one hell of a paranoid person living in a free market economy.
The total conversion with the tanks is called project Subsistence, and I'm thinking the other one you might be talking about is Fields of Glory, which that map that's basically an alternate form of AoS (with capturing control points) and is made out of 90% custom medieval models. I'm thinking there might be more if you put some thought into it, and there's a lot of maps that are very close (Hive Keeper, though with it being virtually copied from the Dungeon Keeper game I'm not sure if a map like that could ever be sold).
No map I've seen is in the quality of a premium map. Custom assets alone shouldn't miraculously get a map to premium status if its gameplay is too similar to maps made in the past. In my opinion, every map in the top 3 popularity pages doesn't have the gameplay unique enough for premium.
So by my standards, I'd think you'd have better chances of making more money if you just create something from scratch (or using free engines as a base) instead of using the severely limiting SC2 editor. If I'm gonna spend so much time making custom assets, I wouldn't spend the time making them for SC2. I just don't trust Blizzard with these kinds of things, not to mention the horrendous security for maps in bnet. I'd imagine they improve the security for premium maps but I don't think it's gonna work too well considering they still couldn't fix basic problems with the custom map system after a year and half.