Empire Builder
Your colony ship crash-lands on an uncharted world. Like it or not, you're settling here.
Build up your empire.
- - Pick a government type which will provide varying bonuses. Such as democracies having a higher tax rate, but high upkeep costs.
- - Choose an area to place the capital.
- - Build its economy, by providing houses for your people to live in. Produce metal, oil, food, and electricity.
- - Sell resources on the market to gain credits, however other empires will be able to buy what you sell.
- - Advance technologically, and become the most advanced empire. Build expensive laboratories to improve the science rating of your empire.
- - Build a military from infantry, vehicles and aircraft. Militaries cost upkeep, so don't bankrupt yourself otherwise your military will become ineffective.
- - Ally, set neutral or attack other players.
- - The Native Creatures are dynamic, they will produce new hives, spawning pools and evolution chambers to advance themselves. Destroy them before it becomes too late.* Published on NA.
The project was more or less abandoned by it's original creator and I'm picking up the pieces, so you are all playing an unfinished game atm.
FEEDBACK NEEDED
1: What is your favorite type of military unit
2: What Government/Econ mix do you usually pick?
3: Do you use the bank? If so, can you explain how and why?
3: What are your most/least favorite areas of the map?
4:What terrains do you find the most/least appealing?
5: How quickly can you solo the AI? (Please state time, difficulty, government type, and economy type)
6: If you can solo this map on the hardest difficulty, what would make it more fun/challenging for you?
Redrum Jackle's Edition
Located here: http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/empire-builder-rev/pages/main/
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_ForgeUser4977225 Owner
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_ForgeUser9967726 Author
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Posted Feb 14, 2013@everyone here is the Unit Preloader: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359043
Basically you run this "game" just before you run Empire Builder. You will find it under "Arcade -> Spotlight" (usually). This pre-loads *every* bot, building, spell, explosion, unit, etc...
We played again last night, 2vsWorld and no lag at all. This is definitely what needs to be pushed. Otherwise, we're going to screw around with terrain when we shouldn't have to at all.
@KenjI Thanks for the tip on the money giving. I will try the shortcut. And thanks for bringing back the old terrain and working on a new edition. Can't say thanks enough for picking this up and running with it. You can tell, we're addicted to it ;)
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Posted Feb 13, 2013@Lagacy: Go I didn't have any experience before either. Which is why this map is so shitty after all these months. I do not have the knowledge to code very well and I kind of have a job that is more important than map making (which is why I don't sit down and learn faster than I already have).
@anothervolt: Go Tell me more about this "unit preloader", I am not familiar with it. You can increase and decrease the money by HOLDING down the up and down key. So, if you hold "increase money" shortcut key, it will automatically press it as fast as your computer can register until you release the keyboard key. I could have sworn I put that on the button's tooltip. If I didn't please let me know and I'll fix it for the next version.
I made a new map called "Empire Builder (Kenji's Edition)" where it is a 3 person map instead of an 8 person one. Give that a play and if you like it, I'll revert the official mod back to it's large scale format and just work on my edition instead.
The map is able to be downloaded via the map editor. So open Empire Builder up, go to Open, click battle.net, login, and then search "Empire Builder" and hit Go. Then you can download it and use the terrains. click the yellow "mountain peaks" button to the left of the Zergling, and then you can just pain the terrain from there. There's a wiki on how to do it if you need help.
@serenee: Go Tell you what, you go and look at Anteep's triggers and "extrapolate" the code yourself. I've looked at the complex mess that is SC2 triggers and end up breaking the map when trying to add investments. So if you can do it, I'd be happy to add it in (and give you credit). But when I say "it's beyond my skill" I really mean that. Sorry if this was a bit snippy, I'm just tired of people telling me "it's easy, go do it" when they have no idea what they are talking about.
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Posted Feb 13, 2013Terrain thankfully is nice and easy to get started with, but when trying for perfection can be rather annoying. Bout the only thing I've ever managed to do with the mapmaker without needing a guide right there infront of me to. All the tools are preloaded into the mapmaker so no coding just careful clicking and selecting and then the long process of going for perfection.
Thanks for the links had no idea what to search for to try and fix it.
For the investment thing, could you not just do it much like the current income timer, just a new addition to its income. For however much money you have in the bank, X% of it is paid to you in each income turn. Should be able to extrapolate the coding for the triggers for that from the ones Anteep already has in place for the current income.
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Posted Feb 13, 2013@KenjI03 funny you should ask. we played again last night, 2human vs. Native Zergs. had absolutely no issues. Running Normal/Normal which is exactly what we were played 3 nights before that was causing lag.
Hard to say what is happening here with this "lag" issue. But, I think we found the simple solution and that is to simply pre-load using 'Unit Preloader" mod. Ya'll familiar with this?
I also like the idea of a Bank I could invest in. Guess it would be neat, but I still don't think I require a loan or investment to successfully win.
Speaking of money though, sure wish I could give an Ally money a little easier. Terrible that you have to click the dang button a million times just to give someone 10k. Not sure if that's editable, but.
Is there any chance you could make a second version of this? Meaning... to bring back the old map terrain and rename this one to a Beta version?
And one more question... what does it take to create terrain? I have never looked into modding Starcraft, but I have some skills. Is it terribly difficult to just re-work the terrain or does that involve some sort of heavy coding?
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Posted Feb 13, 2013Sorry, cant help you with this, i have no experience with map editor :/
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Posted Feb 13, 2013@anothervolt: Go
So on previous versions you didn't have lag? Are you sure you didn't play on a higher difficulty or had something running in the background? Because the few minor changes I've made to the previous versions shouldn't have increased lag.
@serenee: Go Google is your friend: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=SC2+param+value http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/data/25903-param-value/
@Lagacy: Go I know. Investing is something Anteep tried to do but failed at. My current lack-of-skill at coding prevents me from trying to code in an investment trigger set.
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Posted Feb 11, 2013I never build the bank when i play, but a nice feature would be investing, like dropping money into the bank, so you can make money later in game.
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Posted Feb 11, 2013Tried Uploading on EU and everything just says param value/xxxxxxxx
The bank tactic i tried with the version where Anteep stopped working. Yes you can use the bank in that way, however if done correctly, you can overpower yourself easily, enough to actually take on the zerg and other players if you so wish to. Grab 4 oils early on, expand energy field to them. Take out loan once uni is built and upgrade all 4 all the way. Pay back in 5 mins Massive cash boost every income. Massive expansion Massive turret lines Massive Teched Army That was the result of that tactic. 30mins is all it takes if you want to go slowly to pull this off whereas without the bank you have to wait for about 1hr30 before this is possible.
Given what ive read where you say your one bankruptcy causes damage to your buildings. me I'd just move my scv's from my defense line to my base. Problem of health damage gone.
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Posted Feb 10, 2013we were playing the other night and couldn't get farther than 2 hours in before the lag made the game unplayable. this was the first time it had gotten that bad, that quick. we were heavily under-armed and weren't holding more than 1 piece of land each. definitely not a good sign.
i understand you on the size of the map causing more lag, that makes sense. but, i will say, last night was the first time it became so laggy that it was unplayable. size of the terrain changed or not. otherwise, the map is just fine.
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Posted Feb 10, 2013@serenee: Go - You sure can use it on EU servers, just download the link and upload it yourself! (Author credits are built into the map. And it links to this page anyway) If you're lucky, you won't have to do a region transfer. Because I had to change regions on the map for it to work (from Anteep's EU to my US)
@Lagacy: Go - If you can program that, then I'd happily do it. I do not know how to program that and both of those maps are locked to editing so I can't make menus like that. (Thank you for the feedback, I personally liked the Energy Marines when I played Anteep's map and it seems Infantry is the thing people go for instead of vehicles)
@Cainmadness71: Go - The map LOOKS much smaller, but I only trimmed a sliver off the top. The bigger the map is, the more lag there is. The map is still 256 from left to right, but it's now 208 from top to bottom. That's 48 blocks (so everyone whining that the map is "so much smaller" really needs to actually LOOK at the map before saying that). Also, the very tippy top of the map was the part I'd rarely see anyone colonize (out of 3 full games, only 4 people made bases up their, and they were wiped out).
@Cainmadness71: Go - That's not a bug, that's part of Starcraft2's engine. If there is shroud you cannot see or shoot them. What you need to do is make a flying unit or build something at that height to take a look up there. The bottom right only has one entrance and is meant to be easy to defend, so I intentionally put that overhand there to make it more difficult to protect. As per the middle left, that was part of Anteep's terrain so I don't quite know the logic behind it.
@anothervolt: Go - I reduced the map size because of lag. The bigger the map the more stuff it has to render, the more it has to render the more machines will slow down when the triggers become intensive. I really don't care what anyone says, it's staying this size and may go smaller because a smaller map is preferable to lagging out.
About the bank:
The way I've seen people use banks is the way you SHOULD use a loan in the real world. Take out money to invest in infrastructure that will generate you more money later. (IE. Take out a loan to allow you to tech up an oil rig, sell tons of oil and pay off the loan quick). That is a viable strategy in the real world and it is one I would prefer NOT to remove, but if it really isn't the way people who play this map would use it, then I will consider removing it.
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Posted Feb 10, 2013Im just wondering if this well be uploaded to EU servers rather than just NA servers?
Also from the Version 5 uploaded in EU, (so want the latest version) Bank is rarely used by people, in fact, I havent seen anyone actually use the bank, very few even build it just for the option.
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Posted Feb 9, 2013So you know there is a glitch on the right side guarding the bottom right corner and left side middle.When you make a front wall near the ramp coming down towards you, they can shoot down at you but not even your mortars can shoot up at them. Its like an invisible wall when you try and shoot up. It makes it impossible to defend because they kill your guys, your turrets and you can't shoot back.
AnotherVolt does not use banks, he meant saving money.
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Posted Feb 8, 2013Ok, here are my thoughts. I'm right in line with Cainmadness71 who posted just below. My desire is to just play this game for 4 hours with a great climactic ending. Which is usually the case the better I get and the more trial and error we go through. So...
I noticed you seemed to have panoramic'd the map, it seems to have lost height. And, the main launch point is sitting terribly close to the main spawn. IMHO, the only thing that needed to be done to the terrain was to clean up all the bumps up in the upper right section of the map. It routinely becomes barren land that only an AI would pick up on. Solution: Go back to the previous terrain but flatten out the top right (maybe added an elevated ramped area. Sidenote, why are there elevated platforms that are unaccessible (no ramp to climb up and place turrets/dudes)? Did you do that for creating natural barriers for ground bulding? I did read that some don't care for elevated areas. I think that's nutty, but to each his own.
1. Mortars, pulse and snipers are the army of choice. Haven't really invested much time in vehicles/aircraft but starting to get good enough at this to afford those luxuries.
2. Socialism/Planned Economy. Mad money, gets you to the oil well the fastest. Gotta have the cash in the bank and the food supply after 3 hours or so. But, that's not difficult if you pre-plan your landscape.
3. I would user the bank if I saw any need for it. I'm usually swimming in cash for a couple hours and then I just go all out with army and fight. On Normal/Normal setting, this doesn't always prove successful. Bank? Ain't nobody got time for that...
4. Terrains. Flat/small expanses with terraces and platforms forming shelter and extra growth space. I would even go so far as to say that I would love to see a completely different terrain option where there are a set of 8 strategically placed "bases". Pre-set base. You just pick one. Figure in some sort of hexagonal pattern. While I love the "wilderness" feel of this current terrain, I would love an option of more of a battlestation/command pattern where every one gets 1 oil, 1 green crystals and a surrounding platforms for defense and 2-3 narrow paths to get into your "fort" if you will.
5. I don't solo.
6. Puppies!
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Posted Feb 6, 2013First off Great job Kenji and Anteep; we love this game. Favorite units; tons of mortars, pulse gunners and a few snipers. When I do anything else I go broke. I always choose Socialism and planned economy because its the only way I can make money in the beginning. I only play solo or with one other person so the game skills vary. With only 2 of us playing we don't do the bank.I like what you did in the upper left corner of the map. I think the map looks smaller now and the main spawn is right out your front door at the top of the map, bigger please. The right side the bottom is nice but the rest you can't secure. We like to build up our bases, stack tons of turrets and the game can last 2-3 hours with 2 of us on normal, normal. It does get very intense....awesome! I have not tried the latest version yet, just checked out the map.
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Posted Feb 6, 2013New Feedback 1. I honestly prefer the sniper, because have a bunch of those in about 6 bunkers, and you defend really easily. Mix it in with a energy marine or 2 per bunker, and you got a solid defense. 2. Havent played in awhile so it was the blue one, that gave like 50%+ tax, and the food government. This gave me about 30% Tax+ and 30% food plus. 3. I think bank should be university tech, but i dont use it ever. It lowers my tax income so i dislike it.
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Posted Feb 6, 2013By futuristic, is that when the units get higher up into the game, they become more powerful, and seem like they have higher tech powers. What i mean is like a 30 second menu at the beginning where you choose everything, like what they have for Stardodgeball or Angry Angry Templar. Not a pause, but just a little menu where you choose everything, it would be much appreciated :D.
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Posted Feb 6, 2013@Lagacy: Go
A green government would be plausable, but green or not has little to do with your economy (it does, however, have a lot to do with efficency. Example, while green is supposedly "healthier" and unarguably better for the environment, doing so requires less or no pesticides resulting in entire crops being lost to insects or other diseases. It would also require less fertilizer as injecting the fields with a surplus of growing nutrients has negative effects on the environment, resulting in even lower and slower crop yields)
Future really has no place since a part of the game is researching tech as it stands, but props to you for trying to figure out something that's balanced.
The problem with the starting is that there is no code (i'm aware of) to start when everyone has voted. Even if there was, I wouldn't want to use it in case someone was AFK for the first 15 minutes of the game. But I will keep your thoughts in mind as I continually modify the game.
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Posted Feb 5, 20131. Havent tried. Will at sometime. 2. I would probably be driven bonkers because i would be like MUST KEEP TRYING! 3. I dislike places with more then 1 entrance, i dont care if its too wide (about 10 units) 4. I dislike ones when ur ramp is above you. Other Types of government/unit balancing/models I would think it would be cool if there was one that was Green Economy or Futuristic Goverment Green Economy: +100% Power, +50% Food, -50% Oil, -50% Metal. Futuristic Economy:+50% Food, +25% Tech +50% Tax, -10% Oil -10% Metal, -10% build speed.
Typically when i play, i go for mass food and mass Tax, that way i can early get my economy really high, as well have the food to supply it.
Final thing, i would really like it if you gave about a 30 second start time before the game starts to decide difficulty, and what builder/economy you are, instead of the Game start and go! I mainly would like this because some people like me have this wierd glitch in sc2 where you start all your games late. Most people start 11 seconds late, but i start 24. This makes it really hard because people tend to steal my spot, and i usually rage.
Thanks, from Lagacy.
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Posted Feb 3, 2013@ WontonST - the biggest problem is that the coding is quite beyond me. Anteep is the mastermind and I'm learning by picking apart his code. I have no idea how to implement that kind of a system and (to make matters worse) the mass trading is what is causing all the lag in the first place (this map is extremely trigger intensive).
@ Smilge - Everyone has ideas, but few people have solutions. I need solutions instead of ideas. I don't care for the bank myself but I'm wary of removing it because it does serve a purpose for advanced players, so that's a legitimate statement but I need more feedback from the people who can solo the map on brutal before I remove banks.
I like your idea of making turrets more expensive initially to make up for their no tax cost, but making units cheaper is a coding nightmare so I'm going to pass on that.
When it comes to "less frustrating for new players" this is where I need you to come up with solutions instead of just saying "it's frustrating". The tech lab already shuts off when you don't have the income for it, and an on-off switch is (again) a coding nightmare.
A tutorial is indeed needed for this but Anteep gave up a long time ago and I'm picking up the pieces and learning as I go. So unless if you know how to code tutorials I can't make it any more accessible.
A terrain change is needed, but the biggest problem is balance. What areas are better/worse as voted on by the number of players who build bases there? This is again where I'm telling you to be a problem solver instead of a problem. If you think you can make more balanced terrain, do so! The map is open source, and drop me a link with the new terrain. Otherwise you're not helping...
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Posted Jan 7, 2013I honestly think you could remove the bank entirely. Most the people who take out loans are noobs who end up in a hole so deep that they lose the game and probably never play again. There are plenty of options for experienced people to play around with; removing banks entirely will solve more problems than it creates.
Tax income should probably be raised a bit. It seems like you either choose the 3% upkeep government or you just live off of turrets till an hour into the game. Soldiers are just as expensive upfront and die much, much easier than turrets. Why should they take up a huge amount of tax income as well? Bunkers are just stupid to build since turrets are going to be better in every way in the short and long term. Perhaps turrets should be a higher initial investment and/or soldiers should cost less over time.
Most importantly, this game should be less frustrating for new players. It should be more rare that a player kills themselves with starvation or bankruptcy. Maybe the laboratory shuts off if it would make your tax income negative (and a manual on switch for experienced players that can handle a negative income). Some sort of way to get out of starvation or it be less damaging when it does happen would be nice as well.
I like the game a lot and it has a lot of potential, but I was only able to play with anyone for a few days after it was on the spotlight. New players don't live long enough to enjoy the game, so they never come back. I wouldn't mind seeing the terrain change, both to be easier to see cliffs and to encourage multiple people building bases together. This would make new players have a chance to learn the game while an experienced player helped defend.
I know that's a lot of suggestions, but bottom line is we need new players to have fun right at the start so they continue to play and learn. And think about nixing the bank. I don't think it would be that bad.