actuelly, i have to trick the Z angle or the 3D unit will look flat on the 2D
that would be precisely my point. You're capable of going beyond an isometric view to an actual perspective view and it still looks great. Tychus is still 3 Dimensional, and I can see that. It's not like D2 where it stretched everything to make it "feel" like a perspective. D2s "3D" attempt was quite cool, but it seriously looked like I was playing an animated pop up book.
I agree that this demo should've shown more about it's flexibility before it was shown (such as wondering behind the tents, or nearby NPC avatars). Right now, it does seriously look like you're walking Tychus over a glorified D2 screenie rug. However, I don't know why some seem to be taking this for granted. It still looks neat, and it also shows how well you can mash 2d images with a 3d rendering and still get it to look well. If you wanna' know how this is applicable for MANY projects nearly as is? Look at Rise of Nations please. RTS engine; 2D sprites with 3D models. Except SC2 is even better. No isometric view. You can actually use perspective; and as shown here? You can make the perspective work well with the 2D, even with fully rendered 3D objects in the fore ground.
HEY ZERO! It's me again.
I've done several Multiplayer games now and man, it's quite fun. The choices between upgrading an army, or cashing in gold for Mins to get more troops? Is absolutely awesome IMO. It's much better than farming item recipes. The game may be flooded with far to many noobs at the moment since the map isn't that old, but there do seem to be some strong imbalances. Some of them, seem fine but you still may want to consider them.
First off
1# Brood Lords are epic because of path blocking. Thats why even Thors lose to them in Melee Games. Mass Brood Lings will just take up the space needed to still push an army back. If you make their path foot print barely existant? That issue can be solved nearly immidiately.
2# Banelings are strong. Mainly in early game however. When I used them, mid to late game? They are not as nearly effective. Maybe I didn't play the Zerg until you changed them? Are they even changed yet? *shrugs* they were not as strong as some made them out to be.
3# Kerrigan is seriously getting close to Over Powered. The DoT is very strong when you level it early and grants players early easy hero kills. Her heal also gives her a HUGE edge in fighting. At end game, if I went against another player 1v1, we'd usually beat each other to half health equally with quick blasting (mind you, the DoT hasn't really taken full effect yet). After the first 3 seconds of spell barrages, I heal; I'm up on health and they are not. They are still burning from the DoT and I nuke them for the kill. I'm seriously unbeatable unless I get gang banged. Even then, I still usually manage to win thanks to her Ultimate. It's not too strong on damage, but it is a very quick fire. CD might too low.
4# Rory's leap is epic but fails in certain instances versus Zeratul's pull. If I'm back at their base, I can't leap at them because the cannons will kill me. If I get too close to try and get army kills? I get pulled into the cannons and they kill me. I've had several games now, where Rory can be effectively controlled in the TvP lane if the Protoss have Zeratul there to bait him. What's worse is that every game this happened? My levels fell horridly behind as Zeratul is free to kill my army while I'm away re spawning. Rory can do a LOT better versus the Zerg, because the army tends to kill the northern most Spine first, allowing me to leap past their static D and rape their base and spawning heroes. This isn't the only Hero who seems to have a favored lane. Rory almost completely face smashes Kerrigan in early game, beating her so badly that she can't exploit her awesome DoT power. If I run into Rory on the TvZ lane, I have to switch lanes in order to perform well to get her leveled. She's far too weak to compare to Rory early on. Funny, since Rory seems easily stopped on the TvP lane (if Zeratul is used anyway).
5# I've gotten B.O.B before. Actually, it was a lot easier than I thought. In one of those games where Rory was getting baited by a good Zeratul player, I was 6 levels behind. The Protoss got B.O.B since they couldn't beat me bad enough to over run me at least. Then things started to change. B.O.B. actually sealed their fate! You see, my partner and I immediately prepared to snipe B.O.B. ASAP as soon as he began harvesting. We run down and kill him, and I find myself surprised haven forgotten that you can Capture B.O.B ! All of a sudden, it hits me. We now have a way to win! Easy! The Protoss Team wasted all that cash on B.O.B while all that potential cash we DIDN'T spend on our own B.O.B was used towards army. We held them off WAY too easily. They had no way of catching up their forces to ours, even with my Character being so beat down by the Zeratul pulls into cannons. Also, B.O.B trek is awfully short. If you still have your Static D up; once he's up that ramp, it's practically GG. The Zerg B.O.B route is WAY longer. WAY longer and no where nearly as defended. I think the B.O.B goal needs to be looked at to make sure it's fair. For one, I don't think I should be able to steal an opponent's B.O.B. He is easy to kill, especially if you're leveled into end game. I single play can keep a team busy fighting over B.O.B while his team mate can decimate a lane when the enemy is distracted. B.O.B is more of a risk to the team who summons him, than he is a fail safe. To put this in a better perspective here, I'll give an example on that game I spoke of above. In the time it took us to capture B.O.B and escort him with 2 out leveled heroes, our army out leveled their's so much that they were killing the Nexus. Our troops literally rolled theirs. It was a double win. B.O.B reached the CC just as we were sealing their doom with our army at the same time. And we didn't even pay for him. We were levels behind, so we didn't have as much cash as they did. I love B.O.B. It's a great ploy in such a game as yours. But he does need some work. I think that's why I havn't seen him as much.
Anyways, GL HF! I'll give more feed back on the Protoss when I use them several times.
Mercenaries eh? That could be interesting. Again, I completely understand your view about army control and what not. It's not the FF on the D that I worry about, it's the FF on a hero. Controlling the Armies to do Single Target DPS on some one's hero COULD make heroes obsolete, but that's only if you gave the players THAT much control. The mercenary would make my up coming idea easier.
I'f you've played that "Fleet Command" map, you'll notice how masser units are all controlled by squadron rather than individually. When they attack, they simply A-Move everywhere, there's no real Focus Fire option to the player. A similar idea could be used with the Mercenaries.
I've experimented a lot with the Broodlord's Broodling functions, and you can create some cool freaking stuff with it. It's possible to make whole armies follow a single Hero, but still have those troops be uncontrollable directly. Thus, you could create the Mercenaries to function using the BLs Broodling system. Mercenary squads would anchor to a single leader unit, but never in direct control to the player. This makes it impossible for the player to Focus Fire deliberately unless only one target is nearby to begin with. The only unit in a Mercenary squad that would be under direct tactical control to the player, is the lead unit. That's it. If you keep the squad limit small (say, 3 mercenary squads max), then I'd think that'd be small enough to where even FFing the 3 leader units would'nt hurt to bad.
Merc Squads would be small, ranging from 3-5 units if that are light units (like Marines) to only 1 unit if they are higher tier mimics (like the Tanks).
I'd say they'd be 25 to 50% stronger than normal troops of their respective types, but that's subject to balance. The players actively controlling the squads, no matter how limited we might make that control, is a strength and buff in itself. id say the target in stat balance is to have squads be able to nearly much a hero, but not entirely. A single squad could give a younger hero a run for their money, while end game heroes would find it a challenge to take on a full 3 squads at once.
Their cost would be extravagant I'd assume. Merc squads allow players to fight multiple fronts and be in control ( at least partly) in each of those fronts. A big part of their cost would be in their limit. 3 squads MAX per player. Unlocking a second squad choice should be severely limited by the player level. A level 1 noob shouldn't be able to save up and get 3 squads.
Squad choices
I'd keep it some what limited. Don't want too many choices or you'll really be setting yourself up for a balance night mare. The squads can also be mixed easily with the Brood Ling functions. The only reason why I'd suggest mixing units within a squad, is that units that cannot be controlled won't be available for special abilities, like Stim. So, to make the squads performance more exciting, you'll mix unit types to give them flexibility.
Example Squads (Terran)
War Pig Squad - 4 Marine, 1 Medic (ranged squad that heals itself and nearby allies)
Devil Dog Squad - 1 Marauder, 2 Firebat (a good Melee ranged squad with AoE slowing attacks)
Siege Breaker - 1 Tank (a Tank... enough said)
Its all good. I'm currently in the middle of a move. Tough to reply on my end as well XD
Expos would = the need for longer, possibly larger games. I understand your point. Maybe not this project, but another? Who knows. I'd like to see it implemented. I only thought of it because of the use of a base that actually gathers minerals. The only other game I like that is like this is Hero Attack, I believe. Though, you never see that income from the NPC base like yours. Yours is a lot more involved.
Thanks about the reaps XD *thumbs up*
I do see your point. I've thought of it myself. Hence why I mentioned it earlier, admitting that it would take away from the games main differentiating feature; the Army Augmentation. Maybe consider making the Tokens also irreversible? Also, what's your thought on letting Players actually control units that are close to their hero?
DotA games to me are... hybrids without much fusion. It's an RTS where you control one unit. And that, to me is what they literally feel like. It always feels half baked, never completely finished. When I play DotA, I expect the game to feel a LOT more like Diablo's action style game. But, nope. Instead, it's one unit, you never really feel you ARE that "unit", you're just a God wasting a lot of macro/micro potential on a single target with 4 skills (XD). Your map does kind'a break that mode. The RTS feeling is comforted by the fact that you do influence the army. I'm glad you don't mind my opinions. I also hope to game with you soon! glhf
Expansions could be easily doable via some artistic changes! For example, instead of using CC/Nexi/Hatches, you use the Refineries instead as make shift Mineral Stations. Smaller Building, Smaller Base. Also the mains are already quite small. The Expos will undoubtedly be smaller. Size here isn't always a bad thing as you'll want to enforce tight, close combat anyway. These bases will need to be constantly contested because the extra Income will be a heavy boost to the winning faction. Further more, this Idea does rely heavily on the Terrain of the Map. An improved Terrain could easily leave room for these Expo ideas.
I noticed the Reaper thing in particular because I was goofing off towards the end of the match, I massed nothing but Reaps toward the Toss, and Massed nothing but 'Rine vs the Zerg. The 'Rines completely wiped the Zerg without my hero even needing to intervene. The Reapers though, were doing no dmg to the buildings, so they would stand in line, dying one by one to the cannons; blocking the Marines that DO spawn, from ever doing anything. It was more noticeable after the towers were down, when all that was left were reapers, and the Gate Ways were not losing any health. I was like "wtf?" Lastly, the Tip for the grenade weapon's icon on the Reaper does say "0" dmg. *shrugs*
And, what I'm saying is, there could be a more shared, standard resource that is used by both the hero's upgrades AS WELL AS the troops, that way player s have to make a choice to either buff their hero or their troops. So, yes, making the Tokens purchasable through GP could be an option. Or, make the Tokens also usable with their skills (which would be interesting, because it could allow heroes to "respec" on the fly, taking Tokens out of their Hero Skills and putting them towards their army at will! lol, that'd be crazy). This is idea isn't "required" by any means. The game's focus of having players deeply influence their supporting armies is the real goal; but I just feel having players choose between godlike heroes, or powerful armies could allow for more diversity and depth in the choices you make. Right now, the leveling experience is extremely linear. The skills are locked in such a way to fit balance well, but as a result, there is little customization. The proposed idea above CAN allow some customization; but hopefully plays on this map's strength of Army Augmentation.
Glad you take feedback so well. You're map is great; being different but not so far unique that it feels too alien to most. I've also always wanted to see DotA style game types feature a lot more with their Armies than they usually do; and yours does. I hope we can game later on! GLHF
Tried it with the single player mode just to get a very, very basic idea of the game (despite how DOTA-ish it obviously seems).
Yes it's DOTA styled, but I do like how its 3 ways of war and how you can effect your army composition.
My 2 cents from this basic, 30 minute game I did:
Terrain is ... meh. BUT I understand your point. Hopefully some one will step up and help you out in that regard. I mainly find it a problem simply because it's not very balanced or... seems to miss a few marks game play wise. Grant it, I was alone when I was testing it, but it was more than easy to snipe production buildings by avoiding towers, and certain paths are problematic in terms of travel time.
Would love to see base expansion - An ability to cap "Expoes" down a Lane by building a forward base would be boss and add to the flavor of play. I'd personally prefer that over the Power Up items that randomly appear.
Reapers do not do any damage towards buildings. Not sure if this was planned or not, but they don't do that good of DPS versus other Bio units to warrent having an attack that does 0 damage to structures, thus making them just sit in the way blocking other troops from doing anything.
Other feedback:
I wonder if there could be some more weight to the player choosing to either influence army, or influencing the hero. Currently, you just power level both. Heroes level, gain points to boost their power PLUS the GP earned and Reinforcement Points power levels the Army. There's no cost between the two BOTH being buffed up. What if there was? What if it cost GP to buff the Heroes Base Stats (the life, attack, energy ect) and still cost cash to purchase new troops as well? One could choose to buff their Lane with better soldiers, or simply soloing by being a godly hero. What would you think?
Overall: Just from the 30 minutes of SP, It's awesome enough for me to Bookmark it later and try to MP. I'll enjoy this one, as it offers FAR more depth IMO than most of the other DotA game types and I'm far tired to the DtoA clones in particular. I do LOVE how there is more than just one way to win. That is a bright father in this maps cap, and you deserve a scratch and sniff sticker for that, good sir! :)
Something like this could have a few interesting applications. For one, it might have some use on Smurph's Team Melee styled map. If you had some basic instructions to give your A.I. partners on your team, Team Melee games could include A.I. allies in general, giving the game some play ability even as a 1v1.
Furthermore, I could see functions like this develop into its own strategic styled map, as the A.I. would be doing all the macro/micro work, while you, the player, basically strategize from above.
A couple of functions I would add to the list, if I could:
Fortify Area - this would actually cause the A.I. to actually build static D in the area suggested. Defend Position would be units only, and the A.I. might have some of them Patrol; to where Fortify is entirely static, "Hold Position" style Defense.
Capture Base - suggests to the A.I. to expand and saturate the targeted expansion (only takes effect if minerals and or gas are near by, for example).
Force B.O. - tells the A.I. to follow suggested build order. Handy versus the other team if they have a Human as well. As the game progresses, changing the B.O. will eventually simply tell it to "mass anti infantry" or "mass anti Air" as the build order is already done, it's just up to tech switching at that point.
I've looked and looked everywhere, and only two other versions of an old game I used to play have been remade as fan mods some where in the Cyberverse. None of those reached out to me because they were usually made in flash and single player only.
Anyone remember "Wormhole"?
It was created by "CenterFleet", which later, due to legal issues surrounding the game "Wormhole"; had their name changed and went on to making Cell phone games instead.
What is "Wormhole"?
At heart, it's a top down space shooter game that was designed purely for multiplay. It was fast paced, had ladder rankings and progressive mechanics such as, upgrading your ship and getting new ship types over time as you gained rank. I'll bullet the details for more organization.
Matches could be FFA or Teamed
You'd spawn in your "Space"; which was a playable area about 2 to 3 screens squared.
At the center was a Wormhole(s) showing your Enemy Players
Players could shoot at the Wormholes or NPC targets to get PowerUps
Limited Powerups could be stored, and were treated like Ammo (such as Powerups in Go Kart Racing games). They were single charge shots that deployed an effect upon impact, or arrival through a Wormhole.
The objective was to get as many Powerups as possible and using them to send through your Enemy's Wormhole, into their space, to destroy them.
Powerups could be deployed in your own Space too (meaning you could miss a shot at a Wormhole, or use it's powers in your space to help you). Shooting a "Wall Turret" powerup in your space for example, made friendly Turrets that would help you fend off the other Player's invasions.
The game was amazing. I think it fell through because CenterFleet attempted to "sell" the game via subscription fees and "Gift Shop" type sales (you know, in game Items you can only buy via real cash) without properly obtaining rights to the game itself. This could be why the game has never been totally remade.
To skip all the law crap though, I'm requesting an idea for some one to be inspired enough, to make a Spin Off, of Ye Ol' Worm Hole" within SC2 instead. Except, with a few twists and hopefully, with a different name (suggesting "Vortex" because... well, it's an easy Theme to follow in SC2).
My brain stormed ideas, if it were to help a map maker be inspired -
"Vortex" would be a mixture between Wormhole and a Tug-o-War styled game. To keep things more competitively fair, I'd do away with "Randomizing" powerups that spawn, for a steady "cash/point" reward theme to "purchase" powerups. Players will then have to balance their spending on Upgrades for their ship, their Unit Spawners, the Unit Upgrades and all Mighty Powerups.
Team Games would show Friendly Player Wormholes, so that your Powerups could be sent to friends to help them out if they are being tag teamed.
Tug-o-War style mechanics could be involved. Building a Base some how, that could "spawn" constant troops into designated Wormholes, Build defenses for your Space and provide on the fly Upgrades for your ship.
Slip Stream - An idea that, for some cost; you can open a Slip Stream to a friendly or enemy Space and connect your "Space" together for a short time. This would allow you to "dog fight" or "wingman" your friends/enemys Directly.
Terrain would most likely be a combo of open Space and some ground area to allow for building. The ground area would be limited, as to not allow overpowering with unit spawners. Ground also allows the majority of SC2 ground units have some play; to remain iconic.
It could be possible to have all 3 SC races play a theme "faction" role in "Vortex"; giving the chosen race themed Powerups, theme Units and Themed ships to make matches seem less Mirrored.
Ladder System would award ranks, which over time, can be used to boost player effectiveness. It'd be nice to have rewards for your wins to still add to long term game progression, such as unlocking a new ship. For instance, The Protoss can start with the Phoenix, but with some leveling, get the Corsiar and eventually the Scout.
Combat System - Basic Combat System ideas
Vehicle control can either consists of "WASD" or "Mouse Follow". It depends on preferences, ease of programming and which might present the less latency issues.
Weapons can be either fired using Left and Right mouse buttons, or possibly "A" and "D", leaving Right Click and Left Click as your frwd/bkwrd for movement controls.
2 weapon options to add to the variety. The second weapon slot, being one the play can add as an upgrade.
Spacebar fires the Powerup Item. Powerups will fire in the order they are stored.
3 Powerups can be held at any given time.
Player earns Minerals and Vespene per kill and per shot at Wormholes.
Movement system will have basic physics involved, allowing the Player controlled ships to have "Mass" and thus drift. Running into the "edges" of your space, will cause you to bounce and take damage.
Ship Concepts - Faction specific
Each vessel can have 1 standard attack + one ability to make things interesting. The standard attack is is limited to changes that are Ship Specific, and will always be Air Only. The 2nd attack is added via a Purchase and is not ship specific. Below is a few basic designs I thought up very quickly. They give the general idea of how the ships can be different, but never really better than one another; just stylized.
All Terran ships can Repair slowly by sitting idle after 5 seconds.
Terran's rank 1 = Viking. Long Range slow firing Missiles + Valkyrie styled missile attack (an AoE)
Speed - Normal
Mass - Normal
Armor - Normal
Terran's rank 2 = Wraith. Long Range slow firing Missiles + cloak
Speed - High
Mass - Low
Armor Very Low
Terran's rank 3 = Battlecruiser. Close ranged rapid firing, multiple target Laser cannons + Yamato long ranged AoE
Speed - Lowest
Mass - Highest
Armor - Highest
All Protoss have shields, which regenerate at a high rate after 5 seconds of idling
Protoss's rank 1 = Phoenix. Close range, rapid firing laser attack + blink ability
Speed - Highest
Mass - Lowest
Armor - Normal
Protoss's rank 2 = Scout. Close range, rapid firing guns + Anti Matter missiles, missiles with High single target damage plus an AoE slow.
Speed - Normal
Mass - High
Armor - High
Protoss's Rank 3 = Void Ray. Medium ranged, line AoE beam attack + Prismatic Scattering (AoE ability that makes the Void Ray beam hit all targets nearby for X amount of Seconds)
Speed - Low
Mass - High
Armor - Normal
All Zerg ships heal over time, all the time; albeit very very slowly.
Zerg's Rank 1 = Mutalisk. Close range, weapon bouncing attack (the Muta's Glaive Wyrm) + Talon Strike (a stright line charge that hurts anything in its path)
Speed - Highest
Mass - Lowest
Armor - Lowest
Zerg's Rank 2 = Corrupter. Medium range, straight line AoE acid attack + Corrupter's Grasps (Spine Crawler tentacles come out and attack all targets at close range for X amount of seconds)
Speed - Normal
Mass - High
Armor - Normal
Zerg's Rank 3 = Guardian. Long range, AoE acid projectile (explodes on impact) + Scourge Spawn (spawns several flights of Scourge to attack the targeted Area).
Lastly, but not least(ly), some examples of Powerups, some of which inspired by the old game itself.
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that would be precisely my point. You're capable of going beyond an isometric view to an actual perspective view and it still looks great. Tychus is still 3 Dimensional, and I can see that. It's not like D2 where it stretched everything to make it "feel" like a perspective. D2s "3D" attempt was quite cool, but it seriously looked like I was playing an animated pop up book.
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I agree that this demo should've shown more about it's flexibility before it was shown (such as wondering behind the tents, or nearby NPC avatars). Right now, it does seriously look like you're walking Tychus over a glorified D2 screenie rug. However, I don't know why some seem to be taking this for granted. It still looks neat, and it also shows how well you can mash 2d images with a 3d rendering and still get it to look well. If you wanna' know how this is applicable for MANY projects nearly as is? Look at Rise of Nations please. RTS engine; 2D sprites with 3D models. Except SC2 is even better. No isometric view. You can actually use perspective; and as shown here? You can make the perspective work well with the 2D, even with fully rendered 3D objects in the fore ground.
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HEY ZERO! It's me again. I've done several Multiplayer games now and man, it's quite fun. The choices between upgrading an army, or cashing in gold for Mins to get more troops? Is absolutely awesome IMO. It's much better than farming item recipes. The game may be flooded with far to many noobs at the moment since the map isn't that old, but there do seem to be some strong imbalances. Some of them, seem fine but you still may want to consider them.
First off 1# Brood Lords are epic because of path blocking. Thats why even Thors lose to them in Melee Games. Mass Brood Lings will just take up the space needed to still push an army back. If you make their path foot print barely existant? That issue can be solved nearly immidiately.
2# Banelings are strong. Mainly in early game however. When I used them, mid to late game? They are not as nearly effective. Maybe I didn't play the Zerg until you changed them? Are they even changed yet? *shrugs* they were not as strong as some made them out to be.
3# Kerrigan is seriously getting close to Over Powered. The DoT is very strong when you level it early and grants players early easy hero kills. Her heal also gives her a HUGE edge in fighting. At end game, if I went against another player 1v1, we'd usually beat each other to half health equally with quick blasting (mind you, the DoT hasn't really taken full effect yet). After the first 3 seconds of spell barrages, I heal; I'm up on health and they are not. They are still burning from the DoT and I nuke them for the kill. I'm seriously unbeatable unless I get gang banged. Even then, I still usually manage to win thanks to her Ultimate. It's not too strong on damage, but it is a very quick fire. CD might too low.
4# Rory's leap is epic but fails in certain instances versus Zeratul's pull. If I'm back at their base, I can't leap at them because the cannons will kill me. If I get too close to try and get army kills? I get pulled into the cannons and they kill me. I've had several games now, where Rory can be effectively controlled in the TvP lane if the Protoss have Zeratul there to bait him. What's worse is that every game this happened? My levels fell horridly behind as Zeratul is free to kill my army while I'm away re spawning. Rory can do a LOT better versus the Zerg, because the army tends to kill the northern most Spine first, allowing me to leap past their static D and rape their base and spawning heroes. This isn't the only Hero who seems to have a favored lane. Rory almost completely face smashes Kerrigan in early game, beating her so badly that she can't exploit her awesome DoT power. If I run into Rory on the TvZ lane, I have to switch lanes in order to perform well to get her leveled. She's far too weak to compare to Rory early on. Funny, since Rory seems easily stopped on the TvP lane (if Zeratul is used anyway).
5# I've gotten B.O.B before. Actually, it was a lot easier than I thought. In one of those games where Rory was getting baited by a good Zeratul player, I was 6 levels behind. The Protoss got B.O.B since they couldn't beat me bad enough to over run me at least. Then things started to change. B.O.B. actually sealed their fate! You see, my partner and I immediately prepared to snipe B.O.B. ASAP as soon as he began harvesting. We run down and kill him, and I find myself surprised haven forgotten that you can Capture B.O.B ! All of a sudden, it hits me. We now have a way to win! Easy! The Protoss Team wasted all that cash on B.O.B while all that potential cash we DIDN'T spend on our own B.O.B was used towards army. We held them off WAY too easily. They had no way of catching up their forces to ours, even with my Character being so beat down by the Zeratul pulls into cannons. Also, B.O.B trek is awfully short. If you still have your Static D up; once he's up that ramp, it's practically GG. The Zerg B.O.B route is WAY longer. WAY longer and no where nearly as defended. I think the B.O.B goal needs to be looked at to make sure it's fair. For one, I don't think I should be able to steal an opponent's B.O.B. He is easy to kill, especially if you're leveled into end game. I single play can keep a team busy fighting over B.O.B while his team mate can decimate a lane when the enemy is distracted. B.O.B is more of a risk to the team who summons him, than he is a fail safe. To put this in a better perspective here, I'll give an example on that game I spoke of above. In the time it took us to capture B.O.B and escort him with 2 out leveled heroes, our army out leveled their's so much that they were killing the Nexus. Our troops literally rolled theirs. It was a double win. B.O.B reached the CC just as we were sealing their doom with our army at the same time. And we didn't even pay for him. We were levels behind, so we didn't have as much cash as they did. I love B.O.B. It's a great ploy in such a game as yours. But he does need some work. I think that's why I havn't seen him as much.
Anyways, GL HF! I'll give more feed back on the Protoss when I use them several times.
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@Zero0018: Go
Zero;
Mercenaries eh? That could be interesting. Again, I completely understand your view about army control and what not. It's not the FF on the D that I worry about, it's the FF on a hero. Controlling the Armies to do Single Target DPS on some one's hero COULD make heroes obsolete, but that's only if you gave the players THAT much control. The mercenary would make my up coming idea easier. I'f you've played that "Fleet Command" map, you'll notice how masser units are all controlled by squadron rather than individually. When they attack, they simply A-Move everywhere, there's no real Focus Fire option to the player. A similar idea could be used with the Mercenaries. I've experimented a lot with the Broodlord's Broodling functions, and you can create some cool freaking stuff with it. It's possible to make whole armies follow a single Hero, but still have those troops be uncontrollable directly. Thus, you could create the Mercenaries to function using the BLs Broodling system. Mercenary squads would anchor to a single leader unit, but never in direct control to the player. This makes it impossible for the player to Focus Fire deliberately unless only one target is nearby to begin with. The only unit in a Mercenary squad that would be under direct tactical control to the player, is the lead unit. That's it. If you keep the squad limit small (say, 3 mercenary squads max), then I'd think that'd be small enough to where even FFing the 3 leader units would'nt hurt to bad.
Merc Squads would be small, ranging from 3-5 units if that are light units (like Marines) to only 1 unit if they are higher tier mimics (like the Tanks). I'd say they'd be 25 to 50% stronger than normal troops of their respective types, but that's subject to balance. The players actively controlling the squads, no matter how limited we might make that control, is a strength and buff in itself. id say the target in stat balance is to have squads be able to nearly much a hero, but not entirely. A single squad could give a younger hero a run for their money, while end game heroes would find it a challenge to take on a full 3 squads at once. Their cost would be extravagant I'd assume. Merc squads allow players to fight multiple fronts and be in control ( at least partly) in each of those fronts. A big part of their cost would be in their limit. 3 squads MAX per player. Unlocking a second squad choice should be severely limited by the player level. A level 1 noob shouldn't be able to save up and get 3 squads.
Squad choices I'd keep it some what limited. Don't want too many choices or you'll really be setting yourself up for a balance night mare. The squads can also be mixed easily with the Brood Ling functions. The only reason why I'd suggest mixing units within a squad, is that units that cannot be controlled won't be available for special abilities, like Stim. So, to make the squads performance more exciting, you'll mix unit types to give them flexibility. Example Squads (Terran) War Pig Squad - 4 Marine, 1 Medic (ranged squad that heals itself and nearby allies) Devil Dog Squad - 1 Marauder, 2 Firebat (a good Melee ranged squad with AoE slowing attacks) Siege Breaker - 1 Tank (a Tank... enough said)
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@Zero0018: Go
Its all good. I'm currently in the middle of a move. Tough to reply on my end as well XD
Expos would = the need for longer, possibly larger games. I understand your point. Maybe not this project, but another? Who knows. I'd like to see it implemented. I only thought of it because of the use of a base that actually gathers minerals. The only other game I like that is like this is Hero Attack, I believe. Though, you never see that income from the NPC base like yours. Yours is a lot more involved.
Thanks about the reaps XD *thumbs up*
I do see your point. I've thought of it myself. Hence why I mentioned it earlier, admitting that it would take away from the games main differentiating feature; the Army Augmentation. Maybe consider making the Tokens also irreversible? Also, what's your thought on letting Players actually control units that are close to their hero?
DotA games to me are... hybrids without much fusion. It's an RTS where you control one unit. And that, to me is what they literally feel like. It always feels half baked, never completely finished. When I play DotA, I expect the game to feel a LOT more like Diablo's action style game. But, nope. Instead, it's one unit, you never really feel you ARE that "unit", you're just a God wasting a lot of macro/micro potential on a single target with 4 skills (XD). Your map does kind'a break that mode. The RTS feeling is comforted by the fact that you do influence the army. I'm glad you don't mind my opinions. I also hope to game with you soon! glhf
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@Zero0018: Go
You're welcome for the post!
Expansions could be easily doable via some artistic changes! For example, instead of using CC/Nexi/Hatches, you use the Refineries instead as make shift Mineral Stations. Smaller Building, Smaller Base. Also the mains are already quite small. The Expos will undoubtedly be smaller. Size here isn't always a bad thing as you'll want to enforce tight, close combat anyway. These bases will need to be constantly contested because the extra Income will be a heavy boost to the winning faction. Further more, this Idea does rely heavily on the Terrain of the Map. An improved Terrain could easily leave room for these Expo ideas.
I noticed the Reaper thing in particular because I was goofing off towards the end of the match, I massed nothing but Reaps toward the Toss, and Massed nothing but 'Rine vs the Zerg. The 'Rines completely wiped the Zerg without my hero even needing to intervene. The Reapers though, were doing no dmg to the buildings, so they would stand in line, dying one by one to the cannons; blocking the Marines that DO spawn, from ever doing anything. It was more noticeable after the towers were down, when all that was left were reapers, and the Gate Ways were not losing any health. I was like "wtf?" Lastly, the Tip for the grenade weapon's icon on the Reaper does say "0" dmg. *shrugs*
And, what I'm saying is, there could be a more shared, standard resource that is used by both the hero's upgrades AS WELL AS the troops, that way player s have to make a choice to either buff their hero or their troops. So, yes, making the Tokens purchasable through GP could be an option. Or, make the Tokens also usable with their skills (which would be interesting, because it could allow heroes to "respec" on the fly, taking Tokens out of their Hero Skills and putting them towards their army at will! lol, that'd be crazy). This is idea isn't "required" by any means. The game's focus of having players deeply influence their supporting armies is the real goal; but I just feel having players choose between godlike heroes, or powerful armies could allow for more diversity and depth in the choices you make. Right now, the leveling experience is extremely linear. The skills are locked in such a way to fit balance well, but as a result, there is little customization. The proposed idea above CAN allow some customization; but hopefully plays on this map's strength of Army Augmentation.
Glad you take feedback so well. You're map is great; being different but not so far unique that it feels too alien to most. I've also always wanted to see DotA style game types feature a lot more with their Armies than they usually do; and yours does. I hope we can game later on! GLHF
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Tried it with the single player mode just to get a very, very basic idea of the game (despite how DOTA-ish it obviously seems). Yes it's DOTA styled, but I do like how its 3 ways of war and how you can effect your army composition. My 2 cents from this basic, 30 minute game I did:
Terrain is ... meh. BUT I understand your point. Hopefully some one will step up and help you out in that regard. I mainly find it a problem simply because it's not very balanced or... seems to miss a few marks game play wise. Grant it, I was alone when I was testing it, but it was more than easy to snipe production buildings by avoiding towers, and certain paths are problematic in terms of travel time.
Would love to see base expansion - An ability to cap "Expoes" down a Lane by building a forward base would be boss and add to the flavor of play. I'd personally prefer that over the Power Up items that randomly appear.
Reapers do not do any damage towards buildings. Not sure if this was planned or not, but they don't do that good of DPS versus other Bio units to warrent having an attack that does 0 damage to structures, thus making them just sit in the way blocking other troops from doing anything.
Other feedback: I wonder if there could be some more weight to the player choosing to either influence army, or influencing the hero. Currently, you just power level both. Heroes level, gain points to boost their power PLUS the GP earned and Reinforcement Points power levels the Army. There's no cost between the two BOTH being buffed up. What if there was? What if it cost GP to buff the Heroes Base Stats (the life, attack, energy ect) and still cost cash to purchase new troops as well? One could choose to buff their Lane with better soldiers, or simply soloing by being a godly hero. What would you think?
Overall: Just from the 30 minutes of SP, It's awesome enough for me to Bookmark it later and try to MP. I'll enjoy this one, as it offers FAR more depth IMO than most of the other DotA game types and I'm far tired to the DtoA clones in particular. I do LOVE how there is more than just one way to win. That is a bright father in this maps cap, and you deserve a scratch and sniff sticker for that, good sir! :)
glhf
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@SoulFilcher: Go
Something like this could have a few interesting applications. For one, it might have some use on Smurph's Team Melee styled map. If you had some basic instructions to give your A.I. partners on your team, Team Melee games could include A.I. allies in general, giving the game some play ability even as a 1v1.
Furthermore, I could see functions like this develop into its own strategic styled map, as the A.I. would be doing all the macro/micro work, while you, the player, basically strategize from above.
A couple of functions I would add to the list, if I could:
Fortify Area - this would actually cause the A.I. to actually build static D in the area suggested. Defend Position would be units only, and the A.I. might have some of them Patrol; to where Fortify is entirely static, "Hold Position" style Defense.
Capture Base - suggests to the A.I. to expand and saturate the targeted expansion (only takes effect if minerals and or gas are near by, for example).
Force B.O. - tells the A.I. to follow suggested build order. Handy versus the other team if they have a Human as well. As the game progresses, changing the B.O. will eventually simply tell it to "mass anti infantry" or "mass anti Air" as the build order is already done, it's just up to tech switching at that point.
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Vortex or maybe Black Hole
I've looked and looked everywhere, and only two other versions of an old game I used to play have been remade as fan mods some where in the Cyberverse. None of those reached out to me because they were usually made in flash and single player only.
Anyone remember "Wormhole"? It was created by "CenterFleet", which later, due to legal issues surrounding the game "Wormhole"; had their name changed and went on to making Cell phone games instead.
What is "Wormhole"?
At heart, it's a top down space shooter game that was designed purely for multiplay. It was fast paced, had ladder rankings and progressive mechanics such as, upgrading your ship and getting new ship types over time as you gained rank. I'll bullet the details for more organization.
The game was amazing. I think it fell through because CenterFleet attempted to "sell" the game via subscription fees and "Gift Shop" type sales (you know, in game Items you can only buy via real cash) without properly obtaining rights to the game itself. This could be why the game has never been totally remade.
To skip all the law crap though, I'm requesting an idea for some one to be inspired enough, to make a Spin Off, of Ye Ol' Worm Hole" within SC2 instead. Except, with a few twists and hopefully, with a different name (suggesting "Vortex" because... well, it's an easy Theme to follow in SC2).
My brain stormed ideas, if it were to help a map maker be inspired -
"Vortex" would be a mixture between Wormhole and a Tug-o-War styled game. To keep things more competitively fair, I'd do away with "Randomizing" powerups that spawn, for a steady "cash/point" reward theme to "purchase" powerups. Players will then have to balance their spending on Upgrades for their ship, their Unit Spawners, the Unit Upgrades and all Mighty Powerups.
Combat System - Basic Combat System ideas
Ship Concepts - Faction specific Each vessel can have 1 standard attack + one ability to make things interesting. The standard attack is is limited to changes that are Ship Specific, and will always be Air Only. The 2nd attack is added via a Purchase and is not ship specific. Below is a few basic designs I thought up very quickly. They give the general idea of how the ships can be different, but never really better than one another; just stylized.
All Terran ships can Repair slowly by sitting idle after 5 seconds.
All Protoss have shields, which regenerate at a high rate after 5 seconds of idling
All Zerg ships heal over time, all the time; albeit very very slowly.
Lastly, but not least(ly), some examples of Powerups, some of which inspired by the old game itself.