@Gradius12: Go Not only is god responsible for miscarriages, but every single genetic defect that anyone has ever had.
We dont know why things like that happen. The reasons behind it etc. Somehow I dont think it has anything to do with God having random fun in an evil manner. Why would God do that?. No need to jump to big conclusions knowing your pint sized brain cant understand it.
Because we're imperfectly evolved primates who still retain half the useless features of apes (appendix and coccyx, for example) with inside-out, upside down eyes and an entertainment complex inside our sewage system perhaps?
Just a thought.
Coincidentally, how do you reconcile the glaring imperfections in human biology with a creator?
When you read the Gospels, you really don't feel anything? Do you feel like the words echo inside you, or do you feel nothing but just like reading any other book?
Or do you feel some form of resistance in your perception or some kind of blockage or difficulty?
Honestly please.
I feel what I normally feel when I read a good book. However at the end of the day, I close the book and belay those thoughts of "Do I really have to murder my neighbour if he works on the sabbath?" Then I get to the bible's stupidest verses;
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)
“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)
“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)
“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)
“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
How so?. Science does not hurt creationists. Not at all. Science only proved to strengthen my faith. That is atheism by the way. We call your nothing(illogical Chaos Gods), our Something(God) and all things divinely ordained and created for a purpose Life(the infinite question of "why" and "how" also resolved as a bonus). Insert your magic + randomness anywhere you want(actually, insert it everywhere right?)
Whatever atheists didn't take atheism to its foregone conclusion, as you aren't at present, has no bearing on the argument, "retarded wand" waving notwithstanding.
Tell me, why do I need an explanation on how life began in order to reject your claims that a gent 2,000 years ago died to cure some mystic illness?
Abiogenesis is not one of a thousand perspectives, it is the modern iteration of one of two possibilities. Without abiogenesis, there has to be original life, always. For original life to have always been requires God. Therefore, atheism requires abiogenesis. Quote:
What makes you think I need an explanation about how life originated? I don't know the answer to that question, I might never know the answer to that question, and whatever it might be is completely irrelevant to my ability to state that Christianity has not proven it's claims.
Everything here is correct but it doesn't address my argument, which is simply... Quote:
they don't think too deeply into what baggage comes with there being a creator
...that God's existence requires the least amount of "baggage." You only think otherwise by your insistence that he had to have been created, instead of always being there. Quote:
The next time you ask someone "What's so different about Christianity?" or "Why Christianity and not X or Y?" refer to this article for starters.
Your argument seems to boil down to "I need to know where life came from. God is the simplest answer."
I don't need to know where life came from in order to be an atheist.
Atheism does not require abiogenesis. That's flat out retarded and doesn't even make sense. Atheists have been around for tens of thousands of years. Do you sincerely think they all believed in abiogenesis?
I insist God requires a creator because you insist the universe requires a creator. It's that simple.
You don't appear to understand what atheism is. Atheism is not an alternate view of how life came to be. Atheism is simply "Religion? Ah. Sure. Come back when you can prove it."
Nope, he can change it so that he could lift it again. That reading comprehension of yours. You`re not even factoring time and a few other things in your stone question.
I didn't say "Can he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it, then reduce it's weight far enough so he can lift it, then lift it?"
I said "Can he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it?"
Sure he could. Could he undo it after?, Yep. The first is not a limitation but it is a fullness of expression under constraints that can be changed.
boolean CanLiftStone
So he can both create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it, and then lift it?
"God is limited. Could he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it? One way or the other, he's limited."
It is not for us to decide what He can and can't do, no matter how obvious to us. You're obviously not familiar with how Christians see it.
You're incorrect. I'm very familiar with how Christians see their god. Specifically how they don't think too deeply into what baggage comes with there being a creator.
'It only delays the question of "What made the universe?" to "What made the creator of the universe?" '
You're stating the obvious.
I know full well that's how Christians see it, and they say that because they do not want to consider the irony of "everything needs a creator, except the bits I decide don't need a creator".
Most Christians believe you're not supposed to try to put limits on God, a common doctrine is that man is limited in every way and God is limited in no way. To try to answer where God came from would imply he's limited in some way. I know that makes it kind of hard to argue with but whatevs.
God is limited. Could he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it? One way or the other, he's limited.
Right, and the rejection of all religious claims renders life impossible without abiogenesis.
Nonsense.
What makes you think I need an explanation about how life originated? I don't know the answer to that question, I might never know the answer to that question, and whatever it might be is completely irrelevant to my ability to state that Christianity has not proven it's claims.
It's patently false to call a Christian an atheist by definition of the word. I'm not calling Muslims, Hindus, etc. atheists so I'm not following your analogy.
0
Because we're imperfectly evolved primates who still retain half the useless features of apes (appendix and coccyx, for example) with inside-out, upside down eyes and an entertainment complex inside our sewage system perhaps?
Just a thought.
Coincidentally, how do you reconcile the glaring imperfections in human biology with a creator?
0
0
I feel what I normally feel when I read a good book. However at the end of the day, I close the book and belay those thoughts of "Do I really have to murder my neighbour if he works on the sabbath?" Then I get to the bible's stupidest verses;
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)
“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)
“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)
“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)
“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
0
Evolution. Thermodynamics. Big bang cosmology.
"Not sciences."
Okay Mr. Scientist. Oh, wait.
0
0
Do you know what a straw-man is?
0
I know science hurts creationists, but that's big bang theory + evolution. Not atheism.
0
Tell me, why do I need an explanation on how life began in order to reject your claims that a gent 2,000 years ago died to cure some mystic illness?
0
Your argument seems to boil down to "I need to know where life came from. God is the simplest answer."
I don't need to know where life came from in order to be an atheist.
Atheism does not require abiogenesis. That's flat out retarded and doesn't even make sense. Atheists have been around for tens of thousands of years. Do you sincerely think they all believed in abiogenesis?
I insist God requires a creator because you insist the universe requires a creator. It's that simple.
You don't appear to understand what atheism is. Atheism is not an alternate view of how life came to be. Atheism is simply "Religion? Ah. Sure. Come back when you can prove it."
0
I didn't say "Can he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it, then reduce it's weight far enough so he can lift it, then lift it?"
I said "Can he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it?"
Do you ever actually answer questions?
0
So he can both create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it, and then lift it?
I think this about sums up creationists.
You invent whatever you like.
0
To sustain life?
0%
Plenty of bacteria don't use oxygen. Some even die if exposed to oxygen.
Anaerobic
0
You're incorrect. I'm very familiar with how Christians see their god. Specifically how they don't think too deeply into what baggage comes with there being a creator.
0
You're stating the obvious.
I know full well that's how Christians see it, and they say that because they do not want to consider the irony of "everything needs a creator, except the bits I decide don't need a creator".
God is limited. Could he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it? One way or the other, he's limited.
0
Nonsense.
What makes you think I need an explanation about how life originated? I don't know the answer to that question, I might never know the answer to that question, and whatever it might be is completely irrelevant to my ability to state that Christianity has not proven it's claims.
http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2007/11/09/breaking-news-early-christians-were-impious-atheists/
Please don't let an atheist educate you on the history of your own religion.