I saw a post saying you guys got bored or something and have stopped working on it is that correct? And the excuse was that the map scene has stagnated?
I dunno about you guys... but i have my own set of projects yeah I get bored working on them. And maybe they dont get the attention I really need o put into them.
But mapping is pretty hard work. Really it is.
Most the Bnet pop is looking for pretty laid back game play. And if that's not what your map is then your map needs to be really damn good. Now that's not a complaint its just a fact. And by damn good I mean really fun..... which I haven't seen too many that are.....
A suggestion to you guys out there with holding your projects is to release them in their incomplete forms. That way we can at least try them a little bit and enjoy what is currently available to enjoy.
And seriously to the TOFU guys.... you guys had all this hype months ago on mapster and as far as I can tell theres nothing playable online yet.....
whats the deal.....
Not trying to ruffle your feathers but why waste peoples time if there's nothing playable online, and then put it on hold and then blame blizzard.
The reason the mapping community is "stagnating" is because you people give up ...... and then complain....
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Well, there was always going to be this break, ie, there was always going to be a period of time I could not work on it, unfortunately, we did not get it out before that time so it had to be postponed. After that, I felt I needed a break so Dryeyece and I spent a few weeks playing Minecraft together, and why not? After working non stop for the better part of a year, why couldn't we actually play some games together ... so we did that. About a week ago I started putting the finishing touches on the engine ... pretty much all that is left now is the scoreboard/scorescreen - which if you know about scripting, is easy to do.
As for an open beta, I was thinking of opening it up this weekend, but perhaps if we get groups together, ie - certain people on at certain times, it will remain closed. I for one do not really want the greater battle net community seeing it unfinished - and whilst what we will probably have this weekend will be say 99% finished, it will still be missing a lot of custom art for abilities, items etc - instead using placeholders. With the level of polishing we have already put into Tofu, can you imagine if we released anything less than it's fullest potential? We only have one chance to wow the battle net community.
There is a very real danger of Blizzard Dota being released around Blizzcon - although I find this very unlikely and I would expect it to be released with the Marketplace as a premiere map for it. The new functions they added in the last patch will allow "non-subscriptors" to join your map, ie, certain heroes can be premium only - this is probably what will happen with Blizzard Dota. If we released at the same time as Blizzard Dota we may just fail because of the fanboys.
Blizzard's patch 1.3 did basically destroy the second version of the UI - It took a few weeks to fix it, and thus it evolved into the current UI you have seen in screenshots and videos. This was when we were building the hype, so at the height of the hype, our map was broken. But these things happen for a reason - if we had released if as it was at that stage, it could have very well made it to the top of the pop list, but it wouldn't be anything special. Even though you see people now borrowing Tofu's UI as inspiration, no one has done it to the level we have, no one has that level of polish.
Tofu, for us, is a really fun map. And I think that most people are going to be surprised at how fun it is, obviously if they like that kind of gameplay. Most people I have talked to so far who have not only tested, but also have a background in Dota as I do, say the same thing as me; Dota makes you angry, Tofu is fun. Tofu is the kind of game where you can just join a lobby, have a game, and not rage - as there are so many chances of a comeback, the skillpoint system is totally different to Dota, the experience system as well. There is not that huge snowball effect as there are in other games, and whilst obviously you will be rewarded for playing good, there is really no sense of defeat if you loose. This of course, could very well be because we are just testing and messing about, and when we release it there will be a community that develops around it that rages a lot, like Dota. But I hope we do not go down that path.
The learning curve is a lot smaller in Tofu than Dota, but it is different. The "basic" tutorial system, and I do not mean complete hero tutorials, more like a guide, must be finished before we have a public release, so we can get people to basically join their first game and be able to play, without spending time trying to figure out what does what etc.
I said that the cause of the delay was a result of the current custom map pool being stagnanted, which is true. It is depressing that Dryeyece and I can go away for three weeks, come back, and the list is, for arguements sake, exactly the same. Whilst there is no doubt that if we do reach page 1, the popularity system will be the most important thing for us, for keeping us there - but at the same time, I still know what it feels like to loose a much better scripted, designed and polished map to an incomplete pos that just so happens to be on Page 1/2, even when the community is aware of both maps, they choose to play the 'worst' one because it always has a lobby, like Rodrigo/Slime.
There is really no way I will ever allow Tofu to be released unfinished. (And I am not a perfectionist, I am more a if it works then don't touch it kind of guy), as nothing pisses me off more than seeing shitty unfinished maps on Page 1.
To be honest with you, no matter how much I troll you, I am psyched for this game. If it really is as good as you say it is, and although you do have a bit of an ego, I think it will be. If anything, better than SOTIS.
One thing that I must warn you, is PLEASE do not make the same mistake as SOTIS. The game is focused on "flashy" and "cool" and "bank system", you get the point. When I played the game, I noticed how unbalanced it is and stopped playing immediately, hence the "dota rage" comment you made above. If it is true that you have balanced the game to the point where it is fun and you don't rage (well, not as often. I rage in solitaire) I will most definitely become a fan.
It is all good mate, I wouldn't give it out if I couldn't hack it myself.
There is no way in hell that we can release it perfectly balanced, and I have no doubt that within the first few weeks of it going public we are going to have to make a hell of a lot of balance changes. But that is natural and to be expected - where Dota has had 8 years of balancing, Tofu will be starting on a fresh slate, but Dryeyece is very passionate about balancing and numbers, and what he has done so far is pretty cool in a 1v1/2v2/3v3 setting, at the same time we have to keep in mind about people's skill levels etc. If I kill more people with Moomba than say I kill with Oblivion, it is simply because I have played Moomba for nearly a year, and have less than half a dozen games of Oblivion under my belt. I know all the strategies with him, how to use him to his fullest potential, where Oblivion, whilst I know the idea behind how he works, I have yet to invest that amount of time in him - where as Dryeyece knows all, he is god when it comes to the heroes. So as long as one hero is not tanking a whole team and killing them (which accidently happened in the first game of the July beta test due to simple numerical mistake), and everyone is pretty much even, we can then take a look at replays and decide where we should go from there.
Tofu is flashy and cool, but at the same time you have two completely different sets of minds - I like functionality and clean design - hence the UI working exactly how I always wish this type of game did. Dryeyece likes beautiful spells and balancing spreadsheets (yes he has spreadsheets), hence the heroes and animations. But it has yet to have a bank system, that will not be implemented until after open beta :) To at least give the majority time to learn the heroes, and a chance for us to greater balance it, before the start of Season 1. :P
Keep next weekend free mate, you are more than welcome to come along.
Also, I hate seeing the custom game list scare you away from interest in your project, as it sounds like there was a mild case of that. if this map is even half of what you've said it will be, I'm sure itll do just fine on the popularity list.
as you've said, the maps on the pop list are a bunch of shit. your map should be fine. as a gamer, it's exciting to have a new opportunity to play something competitive because the ones on SC2 right now suck major wang.
Well, there was always going to be this break, ie, there was always going to be a period of time I could not work on it, unfortunately, we did not get it out before that time so it had to be postponed. After that, I felt I needed a break so Dryeyece and I spent a few weeks playing Minecraft together, and why not? After working non stop for the better part of a year, why couldn't we actually play some games together ... so we did that. About a week ago I started putting the finishing touches on the engine ... pretty much all that is left now is the scoreboard/scorescreen - which if you know about scripting, is easy to do.
Breaks are fine and all.... its just for all the hype earlier the test video I saw wasn't all that impressive. The hype is long gone now... just been waiting to see if its gonna be any good.
As for an open beta, I was thinking of opening it up this weekend, but perhaps if we get groups together, ie - certain people on at certain times, it will remain closed. I for one do not really want the greater battle net community seeing it unfinished - and whilst what we will probably have this weekend will be say 99% finished, it will still be missing a lot of custom art for abilities, items etc - instead using placeholders. With the level of polishing we have already put into Tofu, can you imagine if we released anything less than it's fullest potential? We only have one chance to wow the battle net community.
Actually if the map is any good, you have way more then one chance with the battle.net community.
There is a very real danger of Blizzard Dota being released around Blizzcon - although I find this very unlikely and I would expect it to be released with the Marketplace as a premiere map for it. The new functions they added in the last patch will allow "non-subscriptors" to join your map, ie, certain heroes can be premium only - this is probably what will happen with Blizzard Dota. If we released at the same time as Blizzard Dota we may just fail because of the fanboys.
Honestly Blizzard's version of dota should be the last thing on your mind. Why worry about other peoples projects, its not worth it.
Tofu, for us, is a really fun map. And I think that most people are going to be surprised at how fun it is, obviously if they like that kind of gameplay. Most people I have talked to so far who have not only tested, but also have a background in Dota as I do, say the same thing as me; Dota makes you angry, Tofu is fun. Tofu is the kind of game where you can just join a lobby, have a game, and not rage - as there are so many chances of a comeback, the skillpoint system is totally different to Dota, the experience system as well. There is not that huge snowball effect as there are in other games, and whilst obviously you will be rewarded for playing good, there is really no sense of defeat if you loose. This of course, could very well be because we are just testing and messing about, and when we release it there will be a community that develops around it that rages a lot, like Dota. But I hope we do not go down that path.
Dunno... snowballing is generally related to people playing bad .... bad composition...... if a game is good and competitive you cant avoid the ragers......
I said that the cause of the delay was a result of the current custom map pool being stagnanted, which is true. It is depressing that Dryeyece and I can go away for three weeks, come back, and the list is, for arguements sake, exactly the same. Whilst there is no doubt that if we do reach page 1, the popularity system will be the most important thing for us, for keeping us there - but at the same time, I still know what it feels like to loose a much better scripted, designed and polished map to an incomplete pos that just so happens to be on Page 1/2, even when the community is aware of both maps, they choose to play the 'worst' one because it always has a lobby, like Rodrigo/Slime.
There is really no way I will ever allow Tofu to be released unfinished. (And I am not a perfectionist, I am more a if it works then don't touch it kind of guy), as nothing pisses me off more than seeing shitty unfinished maps on Page 1.
A lot of hate here on maps that have been on the list for a long time. Just IMHO all this negativity is whats killing the community.
Release early if its playable. People will play it. If you dont think it stands a chance in its incomplete form well then that shows a weakness of the game. Eh just my two cents...... You dont need something to be complete and polished for people to enjoy the content you already have.... It possibly can even lead to a higher fan base. Especially with your worry about releasing too close to blizzard dota...
Anyways Im looking forward to giving it a whirl .... It would be nice to have something to fall back on when LOL servers are down.
I saw a post saying you guys got bored or something and have stopped working on it is that correct? And the excuse was that the map scene has stagnated?
I dunno about you guys... but i have my own set of projects yeah I get bored working on them. And maybe they dont get the attention I really need o put into them.
But mapping is pretty hard work. Really it is.
Most the Bnet pop is looking for pretty laid back game play. And if that's not what your map is then your map needs to be really damn good. Now that's not a complaint its just a fact. And by damn good I mean really fun..... which I haven't seen too many that are.....
A suggestion to you guys out there with holding your projects is to release them in their incomplete forms. That way we can at least try them a little bit and enjoy what is currently available to enjoy.
And seriously to the TOFU guys.... you guys had all this hype months ago on mapster and as far as I can tell theres nothing playable online yet.....
whats the deal.....
Not trying to ruffle your feathers but why waste peoples time if there's nothing playable online, and then put it on hold and then blame blizzard.
The reason the mapping community is "stagnating" is because you people give up ...... and then complain....
Or perhaps release the game as:
Tofu BETA
After a few days or a week take it down, gather feedback. Contemplate a real release when ready.
I think they will know when it's ready for public testing oO?
Well, there was always going to be this break, ie, there was always going to be a period of time I could not work on it, unfortunately, we did not get it out before that time so it had to be postponed. After that, I felt I needed a break so Dryeyece and I spent a few weeks playing Minecraft together, and why not? After working non stop for the better part of a year, why couldn't we actually play some games together ... so we did that. About a week ago I started putting the finishing touches on the engine ... pretty much all that is left now is the scoreboard/scorescreen - which if you know about scripting, is easy to do.
As for an open beta, I was thinking of opening it up this weekend, but perhaps if we get groups together, ie - certain people on at certain times, it will remain closed. I for one do not really want the greater battle net community seeing it unfinished - and whilst what we will probably have this weekend will be say 99% finished, it will still be missing a lot of custom art for abilities, items etc - instead using placeholders. With the level of polishing we have already put into Tofu, can you imagine if we released anything less than it's fullest potential? We only have one chance to wow the battle net community.
There is a very real danger of Blizzard Dota being released around Blizzcon - although I find this very unlikely and I would expect it to be released with the Marketplace as a premiere map for it. The new functions they added in the last patch will allow "non-subscriptors" to join your map, ie, certain heroes can be premium only - this is probably what will happen with Blizzard Dota. If we released at the same time as Blizzard Dota we may just fail because of the fanboys.
Blizzard's patch 1.3 did basically destroy the second version of the UI - It took a few weeks to fix it, and thus it evolved into the current UI you have seen in screenshots and videos. This was when we were building the hype, so at the height of the hype, our map was broken. But these things happen for a reason - if we had released if as it was at that stage, it could have very well made it to the top of the pop list, but it wouldn't be anything special. Even though you see people now borrowing Tofu's UI as inspiration, no one has done it to the level we have, no one has that level of polish.
Tofu, for us, is a really fun map. And I think that most people are going to be surprised at how fun it is, obviously if they like that kind of gameplay. Most people I have talked to so far who have not only tested, but also have a background in Dota as I do, say the same thing as me; Dota makes you angry, Tofu is fun. Tofu is the kind of game where you can just join a lobby, have a game, and not rage - as there are so many chances of a comeback, the skillpoint system is totally different to Dota, the experience system as well. There is not that huge snowball effect as there are in other games, and whilst obviously you will be rewarded for playing good, there is really no sense of defeat if you loose. This of course, could very well be because we are just testing and messing about, and when we release it there will be a community that develops around it that rages a lot, like Dota. But I hope we do not go down that path.
The learning curve is a lot smaller in Tofu than Dota, but it is different. The "basic" tutorial system, and I do not mean complete hero tutorials, more like a guide, must be finished before we have a public release, so we can get people to basically join their first game and be able to play, without spending time trying to figure out what does what etc.
I said that the cause of the delay was a result of the current custom map pool being stagnanted, which is true. It is depressing that Dryeyece and I can go away for three weeks, come back, and the list is, for arguements sake, exactly the same. Whilst there is no doubt that if we do reach page 1, the popularity system will be the most important thing for us, for keeping us there - but at the same time, I still know what it feels like to loose a much better scripted, designed and polished map to an incomplete pos that just so happens to be on Page 1/2, even when the community is aware of both maps, they choose to play the 'worst' one because it always has a lobby, like Rodrigo/Slime.
There is really no way I will ever allow Tofu to be released unfinished. (And I am not a perfectionist, I am more a if it works then don't touch it kind of guy), as nothing pisses me off more than seeing shitty unfinished maps on Page 1.
Dont sweat it dogmai bro. We are ready when you are! :)
@DogmaiSEA: Go
To be honest with you, no matter how much I troll you, I am psyched for this game. If it really is as good as you say it is, and although you do have a bit of an ego, I think it will be. If anything, better than SOTIS.
One thing that I must warn you, is PLEASE do not make the same mistake as SOTIS. The game is focused on "flashy" and "cool" and "bank system", you get the point. When I played the game, I noticed how unbalanced it is and stopped playing immediately, hence the "dota rage" comment you made above. If it is true that you have balanced the game to the point where it is fun and you don't rage (well, not as often. I rage in solitaire) I will most definitely become a fan.
Great to be back and part of the community again!
You could try making your debut with this: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/24061-map-of-the-week-rodrigos-idea/ once you have the map ready for beta :).
@TacoManStan: Go
It is all good mate, I wouldn't give it out if I couldn't hack it myself.
There is no way in hell that we can release it perfectly balanced, and I have no doubt that within the first few weeks of it going public we are going to have to make a hell of a lot of balance changes. But that is natural and to be expected - where Dota has had 8 years of balancing, Tofu will be starting on a fresh slate, but Dryeyece is very passionate about balancing and numbers, and what he has done so far is pretty cool in a 1v1/2v2/3v3 setting, at the same time we have to keep in mind about people's skill levels etc. If I kill more people with Moomba than say I kill with Oblivion, it is simply because I have played Moomba for nearly a year, and have less than half a dozen games of Oblivion under my belt. I know all the strategies with him, how to use him to his fullest potential, where Oblivion, whilst I know the idea behind how he works, I have yet to invest that amount of time in him - where as Dryeyece knows all, he is god when it comes to the heroes. So as long as one hero is not tanking a whole team and killing them (which accidently happened in the first game of the July beta test due to simple numerical mistake), and everyone is pretty much even, we can then take a look at replays and decide where we should go from there.
Tofu is flashy and cool, but at the same time you have two completely different sets of minds - I like functionality and clean design - hence the UI working exactly how I always wish this type of game did. Dryeyece likes beautiful spells and balancing spreadsheets (yes he has spreadsheets), hence the heroes and animations. But it has yet to have a bank system, that will not be implemented until after open beta :) To at least give the majority time to learn the heroes, and a chance for us to greater balance it, before the start of Season 1. :P
Keep next weekend free mate, you are more than welcome to come along.
so wait, you're testing it this weekend or next?
Also, I hate seeing the custom game list scare you away from interest in your project, as it sounds like there was a mild case of that. if this map is even half of what you've said it will be, I'm sure itll do just fine on the popularity list.
as you've said, the maps on the pop list are a bunch of shit. your map should be fine. as a gamer, it's exciting to have a new opportunity to play something competitive because the ones on SC2 right now suck major wang.
You're so awesome TacoMan.
Someone link me Tofu. I don't remember seeing anything about it...but I have a terrible memory...for specific reasons >.>
@saltygrapes: Go
Not worried about the pop system at all, just said it was depressing.
And yes, this weekend there will be a beta test, a large one.
Breaks are fine and all.... its just for all the hype earlier the test video I saw wasn't all that impressive. The hype is long gone now... just been waiting to see if its gonna be any good.
Actually if the map is any good, you have way more then one chance with the battle.net community.
Honestly Blizzard's version of dota should be the last thing on your mind. Why worry about other peoples projects, its not worth it.
Dunno... snowballing is generally related to people playing bad .... bad composition...... if a game is good and competitive you cant avoid the ragers......
Though I do enjoy making people rage......
A lot of hate here on maps that have been on the list for a long time. Just IMHO all this negativity is whats killing the community.
Release early if its playable. People will play it. If you dont think it stands a chance in its incomplete form well then that shows a weakness of the game. Eh just my two cents...... You dont need something to be complete and polished for people to enjoy the content you already have.... It possibly can even lead to a higher fan base. Especially with your worry about releasing too close to blizzard dota...
Anyways Im looking forward to giving it a whirl .... It would be nice to have something to fall back on when LOL servers are down.
lol this didn't end up happening did it
Whatever now I can steal all of TOFU's ideas and put them into my new map, right Dogmai? CTF being a completely new and unique idea and all.
You didn't ask for an invite did you?
nope! but I figured somebody would have said something about how it went or something.
hope it went well, if that's the case
umm is this game still not available