I will try with Revision 10 to include turret stacking and probes, but I will only make a new Revision if there are problems with the current one, such as multiple levels starting at the same time (which I hope I fixed with this latest revision 9)
I posted this on the TL forums where u posted this. But I will repost it here.
I understand your idea for Nostalgia and that's awesome, but I think it needs a little bit... more. Here are some of my thoughts:
I find it frustrating to see the units named incorrectly, and I understand why you did that, and I suppose that is your choice but personally it is pretty meh.
I haven't played it with anyone else yet, but I will be trying it soon.
Some units clip the corners a little.
I find it still a waste of money to buy the heroes, but this could very well be a factor that is more desirable with more than 1 person.
WAY more Spires are dieing than units are slipping through. I very clearly let 6 units through with 17 Spires and I had 3 left at the end. Unless units are needlessly stacking, which they shouldnt.
More thoughts.
This is an awesome map... for SC1. This brings me back to my childhood and brings back happy memories. I did indeed love this map. But we are in 2010 and you advertise that in your game... You have access to the most powerful map making tool ever created for a game. So roll with it. You call this the final version and you seem so content with it... I really don't know what to say about that. This map is great for SC1, but now that we are in SC2 you have SO much further to go with it. Don't just take a map created by a feeble limited engine and remake it in better graphics. Make it what the original designer wishes he could have done back in the day. Here are some ideas I had. Advance it, and make it better or it will never be accepted.
Something criminally simple: More towers. Turrets turrets turrets and the occasional Photon cannon, that is likely not worth the cost. BORING.
Allow us to do a MBS of the Spires or enemy units in order to do a quick scan of how many are left. This would add something to the game I believe.
Flashier graphics. Many attacks, big explosions.
Less archaic systems. Moving an SCV onto a Circle of Power, when you can easily place a menu to select. Moving Zerglings called $ on bunkers in order to buy things when you can have a building that buys this stuff with Minerals.
TONS more Heroes that are actually worth it, and while they shouldn't be amazingly powerful, they should SEEM like it. This may seem odd, but when I got my first Marine, I thought, HELL YEAH! Then I saw him attacking SO SLOWLY doing such small damage and being outrun by most air units. I was just thinking how I wasted my money, not because he wasn't effective but because he SEEMED like a liability because he is so slow and boring.
Cooler Interface. If you look around you will see some amazing interfaces that fit very well into the game.
Camera Angle Options maybe? Top down would be an interesting choice for this one.
The map editor you have is so powerful and this map currently doesn't even stand CLOSE to the ones that were made on the WC3 engine. Don't call this the final version, because there are SO many places you can go! Take it and run with it. Improve it, impress people and push the limits!
I do enjoy this map. But again, I feel like I am playing SC1, so the enjoyment doesn't even last as long as the Tetris or Tower Defense maps I downloaded, even though they are far simpler or less complete. This one has more potential than both of those combined. So use it.
For the sake of consistency, I'll post my reply from TL on here too:
I really appreciate the commentary man.
I just disagree with you on all counts. I never had any intention going into making this map of using all (or even any!) of the new features in this editor. To be honest with you, I actually had SCMDraft2 open in another window the entire time that I was making this map so that I would be able to keep it as "true to scripture" as possible. I wrote this in the comments section of the sc2mapster page when someone else brought up the same point you're making now:
"Perhaps in another map I can make a map LIKE this one with more modern features and whatnot... but right now I just want this map to remain as it was. Think of it as like a memorial. A modern example of what we appreciated in the past, if you will."
I think that that kind of sums up my feelings and intentions with making the map. Perhaps just Turrets and maybe a Photon Cannon is nowadays considered to be not enough, but as for me I very much appreciate the way things used to be. I think I'm just a rather traditional person who appreciates old things too much to bother trying to improve on it, that's all.
I'm like the kind of guy who appreciates SNES games just as much as XBOX360 games, if not more... or like the guy who plays Brood War and CounterStrike instead of Gears of War and HALO 3 or whatever it is nowadays that people play. I think that everyone in this community can at least empathize with me here on this.
In my mind, this map (or rather its predecessors at least) is the epitomy of Tower Defense. I find nothing wrong or boring about building my turrets and trying to focus fire them to beat each level. I think its really fun, actually!
Besides, if I wanted to make a Tower Defense map that used more of the editor's engine, I wouldn't have dared to use this name because then it wouldn't really be [i]Turret[/i] Defense, would it? I don't think it would, personally.
You're completely correct that I did did not use this powerful engine to its fullest extent... but what if I did? I personally think that if I had done that, I would have made something very messy and unrecognizable... like when Hollywood makes a sequel to a movie or something based on a novel (or even worse, "a true story!") or whatever that ends up having hardly anything to do with the original, then justify it with the word "re-imagining!" or "reboot!".
I [b]hate[/b] that shit!
And I know that there are people out there who very much appreciate this kind of thing like I do, because the guy who tried to recreate Brood War in Warcraft 3 as a mod before SC2 was announced literally [b]gave[/b] me his old unit models and textures and shit that he made for the mod before it was scrapped when SC2 was announced back in May 2007. I used some of them in this map!
In fact, the very same guy, when he heard that my next effort was to recreate Sniper Paintball for SC2, which I finished last night actually, he just volunteered out of the blue to create the Brood War Flag unit for me right after I announced that I was doing it (which is necessary in order to call dibs on a map idea) on the website! I also used the original Ghost sound effects for the [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126178]Sniper Paintball Bald +Locks[/url]Sniper Paintball Bald +Locks map.
PS: I swear I fixed that "kills too many units" spire thing! I've tested that out extensively over the past few days. It works for me in my tests and when I release it I still hear about it happening. UGH!
Very well. I am just sad that you set your sights so low.
Someone else is recreating this map as well. I just hope he has aspirations for something more. This exact map is available on Brood War. Why play this one when that one is available?
Alright, we heard your point both of you Zanez and Galois1. Please either continue your discussion in PM or stop it now, I don't want any murder on this forum :)
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Based on the legendary map by Ghost[Yoon]!
Download: http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/turret-defense-2010-final/
The TeamLiquid.net thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125636
This is really nice :)
Very awesome and super hard (which is good). Though I miss those good old Probes, as well as stacking.
I will try with Revision 10 to include turret stacking and probes, but I will only make a new Revision if there are problems with the current one, such as multiple levels starting at the same time (which I hope I fixed with this latest revision 9)
I posted this on the TL forums where u posted this. But I will repost it here.
I understand your idea for Nostalgia and that's awesome, but I think it needs a little bit... more. Here are some of my thoughts: I find it frustrating to see the units named incorrectly, and I understand why you did that, and I suppose that is your choice but personally it is pretty meh. I haven't played it with anyone else yet, but I will be trying it soon. Some units clip the corners a little. I find it still a waste of money to buy the heroes, but this could very well be a factor that is more desirable with more than 1 person. WAY more Spires are dieing than units are slipping through. I very clearly let 6 units through with 17 Spires and I had 3 left at the end. Unless units are needlessly stacking, which they shouldnt.
More thoughts. This is an awesome map... for SC1. This brings me back to my childhood and brings back happy memories. I did indeed love this map. But we are in 2010 and you advertise that in your game... You have access to the most powerful map making tool ever created for a game. So roll with it. You call this the final version and you seem so content with it... I really don't know what to say about that. This map is great for SC1, but now that we are in SC2 you have SO much further to go with it. Don't just take a map created by a feeble limited engine and remake it in better graphics. Make it what the original designer wishes he could have done back in the day. Here are some ideas I had. Advance it, and make it better or it will never be accepted.
Something criminally simple: More towers. Turrets turrets turrets and the occasional Photon cannon, that is likely not worth the cost. BORING. Allow us to do a MBS of the Spires or enemy units in order to do a quick scan of how many are left. This would add something to the game I believe. Flashier graphics. Many attacks, big explosions. Less archaic systems. Moving an SCV onto a Circle of Power, when you can easily place a menu to select. Moving Zerglings called $ on bunkers in order to buy things when you can have a building that buys this stuff with Minerals. TONS more Heroes that are actually worth it, and while they shouldn't be amazingly powerful, they should SEEM like it. This may seem odd, but when I got my first Marine, I thought, HELL YEAH! Then I saw him attacking SO SLOWLY doing such small damage and being outrun by most air units. I was just thinking how I wasted my money, not because he wasn't effective but because he SEEMED like a liability because he is so slow and boring. Cooler Interface. If you look around you will see some amazing interfaces that fit very well into the game. Camera Angle Options maybe? Top down would be an interesting choice for this one.
The map editor you have is so powerful and this map currently doesn't even stand CLOSE to the ones that were made on the WC3 engine. Don't call this the final version, because there are SO many places you can go! Take it and run with it. Improve it, impress people and push the limits!
I do enjoy this map. But again, I feel like I am playing SC1, so the enjoyment doesn't even last as long as the Tetris or Tower Defense maps I downloaded, even though they are far simpler or less complete. This one has more potential than both of those combined. So use it.
For the sake of consistency, I'll post my reply from TL on here too:
I really appreciate the commentary man.
I just disagree with you on all counts. I never had any intention going into making this map of using all (or even any!) of the new features in this editor. To be honest with you, I actually had SCMDraft2 open in another window the entire time that I was making this map so that I would be able to keep it as "true to scripture" as possible. I wrote this in the comments section of the sc2mapster page when someone else brought up the same point you're making now:
I think that that kind of sums up my feelings and intentions with making the map. Perhaps just Turrets and maybe a Photon Cannon is nowadays considered to be not enough, but as for me I very much appreciate the way things used to be. I think I'm just a rather traditional person who appreciates old things too much to bother trying to improve on it, that's all.
I'm like the kind of guy who appreciates SNES games just as much as XBOX360 games, if not more... or like the guy who plays Brood War and CounterStrike instead of Gears of War and HALO 3 or whatever it is nowadays that people play. I think that everyone in this community can at least empathize with me here on this.
In my mind, this map (or rather its predecessors at least) is the epitomy of Tower Defense. I find nothing wrong or boring about building my turrets and trying to focus fire them to beat each level. I think its really fun, actually!
Besides, if I wanted to make a Tower Defense map that used more of the editor's engine, I wouldn't have dared to use this name because then it wouldn't really be [i]Turret[/i] Defense, would it? I don't think it would, personally.
You're completely correct that I did did not use this powerful engine to its fullest extent... but what if I did? I personally think that if I had done that, I would have made something very messy and unrecognizable... like when Hollywood makes a sequel to a movie or something based on a novel (or even worse, "a true story!") or whatever that ends up having hardly anything to do with the original, then justify it with the word "re-imagining!" or "reboot!".
I [b]hate[/b] that shit!
And I know that there are people out there who very much appreciate this kind of thing like I do, because the guy who tried to recreate Brood War in Warcraft 3 as a mod before SC2 was announced literally [b]gave[/b] me his old unit models and textures and shit that he made for the mod before it was scrapped when SC2 was announced back in May 2007. I used some of them in this map!
In fact, the very same guy, when he heard that my next effort was to recreate Sniper Paintball for SC2, which I finished last night actually, he just volunteered out of the blue to create the Brood War Flag unit for me right after I announced that I was doing it (which is necessary in order to call dibs on a map idea) on the website! I also used the original Ghost sound effects for the [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126178]Sniper Paintball Bald +Locks[/url]Sniper Paintball Bald +Locks map.
PS: I swear I fixed that "kills too many units" spire thing! I've tested that out extensively over the past few days. It works for me in my tests and when I release it I still hear about it happening. UGH!
Very well. I am just sad that you set your sights so low. Someone else is recreating this map as well. I just hope he has aspirations for something more. This exact map is available on Brood War. Why play this one when that one is available?
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/turret-defense-2010-final/?page=3#c15
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125636¤tpage=9#166
Pick a location and argue there, faggot. Stop copy/pasting, because you're wasting my time.
Alright, we heard your point both of you Zanez and Galois1. Please either continue your discussion in PM or stop it now, I don't want any murder on this forum :)