I really like the idea of (temporarily) destructible components such as turrets or engines. Controlling more of a fleet rather than a single ship sounds interesting too. Perhaps a main flagship and smaller frigate escorts rather than multiple large ships. I think insane customisation is a given. Randomly generated universes are probably possible with the current engine too, just at a small sacrifice to quality.
What do you guys think about trading and mining?
These two features seem to appear in most space games. I think mining is typically a little too safe and passive in most games. I like the idea of mineable minerals being on the battlefront so that you are always under constant small attack, and at risk of larger ships. I think the added risk would keep mining from being too dull.
Trading just seems impossible to make enjoyable though. I've never seen any space game make enjoyable trading, let alone one focused on combat. I thought about, instead of the usual, simply having trading comprise of owning a freighter. Every time you escort the freighter to it's target destination, you earn minerals. I think this is more your typical babysitting escort mission rather than trading, however. I hate babysitting missions too so I'm not hot on this either!
Traders and Raiders. A map from a korean starcraft brood private server. There are the traders and there are the raiders. Traders earn cash from moving their transporter from one checkpoint to another while the raiders earn cash from destroying transporters. Simple mechanics but I think if it was superimposed onto SC2 with its eiditor the map could be really fun.
Instead of just trading maybe hunting for artifacts too?
I would definantly add an ability to the battlecruiser that fires a battery (like an old warship) and these projectiles explode on impact. That would make navigating more important. Reduce acceleration, deceleration but increase maximum speed. I would also implement some sort of hyper speed (that disables shields, weapons and turning but makes the ship really fast.
A nice feature would be to have long range and short range weapons that you can skill. (short range being beams and long range being projectiles)
I was working on a map like described but figured I can't make 2 big projects at the same time^^
Is trigger space some sort of hard limit on the amount of triggers you can use or something? I've heard about the 4MB limit, but I've also heard that Data Tables and at least one other thing were not counted in this memory limit. If you manage the data efficiently, you can probably have an active pool of up to (playercount) systems + generator + global variables + a few odd local variables, at any one time, supposing that all players all decided to explore new sectors at the exact same time. The rest (all the sectors generated but not currently active, for instance) stays in Data Tables until you need to do something with it.
The map Eiviyn described sounds like war3 battleships - in space. Thanks to this damn thread i find myself passively thinking of space maps >.< Unfortunately i think watever i come up with will just be some sort of complicated Star Battles :/
hmm I always forget about datatables, I never used them though.
I reached the 2mb trigger size limit with about 180k variable and 12k line trigger.
I am currently remaking most of my map, I know I could have done the whole map with half of its current trigger size
But using datatables I guess its actually possible, If anyone makes a map like that, than plz count me in (atleast as tester) as it would be probably the best map ever. (maybe a EVE online style map)
Let's say you have your ship, you start out with a basic ship which has 60 (can be any number) of sections. Then you have section types such as Engines, Power Source, Research Lab, Main Weapon, Secondary Weapon, Missile Storage, Engineering bay, Energy shield support.
Then based on how many sections of the ship you use for each of these types you will fly faster, have more weapons, research faster or unluck more advanced research etc. Engineering bay that's expanded could increase your ship repairs, more engine sections allows for faster engines, a better power source allows for powering more advanced tech and so on. As long as the amount of sections you can use per type is limited to some extend you cant have some super powerfull or unkillable ship (too strong shields with too good engineering for example). But it can allow you to customize if you want a speedy ship with lots of long range missiles stored (used for a spell maybe?). Or a more tankish ship with good shields, a high upgraded hull and good engineers, focussing less on weapons and speed.
It sounded nice in my head, you could implement it as a dialog UI or something with your ship as the background, then the sections placed as cubes over it to display the amount of room you have, then you can click on a type of section you want and then click on an empty cube or replace a cube. Another thing that could allow your ship even more customization is by making your ship have targetting points, such as rear left, rear right, rear, centre, front etc. And when taking damage, letting certain sections get damaged or stop working by focus firing on someone's weapons.
Perhaps too complicated for the average gamer but it could be awesome, once you have your ship's basics set up and then as you progress you make adjustments, perhaps get a bigger ship or adjust your sections organization to make it harder to take your ship down.
Just thought about it, adding hangar sections could allow you to have a small or larger fleet flying to help you out, perhaps a bit like how the cruiser (right unit?:p) uses those tiny ships to help the battle.
I am not that great on technical sides of maps myself, but I could make a drawing of what it could look like if anyone thinks it is an idea you could work with.
Heh, that sounds very much like me. Well, at least for the general ideas and the behavior part about never finishing a project, I mean. I won't be so bold as to claim pushing the boundaries and being amazing when I don't even have a single SC2 modding accomplishment to my name (well, that's not strictly true; I did contribute a feature or two, a bit of code, and some theory-crafting for the Cortex Roleplaying Engine project - but all things considered, I think that's not nearly on par with releasing a tech demo, let alone a complete map).
On another note, and I might be hijacking the thread a bit here (and if so I apologize, I'm just interested/curious), but I haven't seen anyone comment about races. Space games often involves multiple alien races duking it out (or talking it down) for supremacy, resources, or just because that's what they do. What do you all think would be the best way to handle races in a space game? Or is it better to avoid that issue entirely by postulating that there's only humans everywhere who have expanded and turned on eachother or somesuch? If the game allowed you to create/have your own race, what would you look for in it, expect, and think would be most fun or practical?
A drawing or a more elaborate explanation would be useless, since the system you describe happens to be exactly the staple feature of Gratuitous Space Battles (screenshot of the ship design screen). It's also been used in various forms in the Space Empires series (screenie!) and several other games.
It's basically a tried-and-true system that has a lot of merits and relatively few disadvantages, but the technical aspects of coding it are difficult for people not familiar with this type of game design philosophies and it makes balancing it out (both in the aspect of PvP balance and in the aspect of fun and options and choices and creating truly interesting/original components) rather complex.
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Curse PremiumSee what would be awesome is if someone made a 3D TPS DOTA style game.
If you steal my idea, send me a pm and involve me in its creation. :)
@Abion47: Go
done
lol
Some really nice ideas in this thread.
I really like the idea of (temporarily) destructible components such as turrets or engines. Controlling more of a fleet rather than a single ship sounds interesting too. Perhaps a main flagship and smaller frigate escorts rather than multiple large ships. I think insane customisation is a given. Randomly generated universes are probably possible with the current engine too, just at a small sacrifice to quality.
What do you guys think about trading and mining?
These two features seem to appear in most space games. I think mining is typically a little too safe and passive in most games. I like the idea of mineable minerals being on the battlefront so that you are always under constant small attack, and at risk of larger ships. I think the added risk would keep mining from being too dull.
Trading just seems impossible to make enjoyable though. I've never seen any space game make enjoyable trading, let alone one focused on combat. I thought about, instead of the usual, simply having trading comprise of owning a freighter. Every time you escort the freighter to it's target destination, you earn minerals. I think this is more your typical babysitting escort mission rather than trading, however. I hate babysitting missions too so I'm not hot on this either!
@Eiviyn: Go
Traders and Raiders. A map from a korean starcraft brood private server. There are the traders and there are the raiders. Traders earn cash from moving their transporter from one checkpoint to another while the raiders earn cash from destroying transporters. Simple mechanics but I think if it was superimposed onto SC2 with its eiditor the map could be really fun.
Instead of just trading maybe hunting for artifacts too?
I would definantly add an ability to the battlecruiser that fires a battery (like an old warship) and these projectiles explode on impact. That would make navigating more important. Reduce acceleration, deceleration but increase maximum speed. I would also implement some sort of hyper speed (that disables shields, weapons and turning but makes the ship really fast.
A nice feature would be to have long range and short range weapons that you can skill. (short range being beams and long range being projectiles)
I was working on a map like described but figured I can't make 2 big projects at the same time^^
@Hookah604: Go
Is trigger space some sort of hard limit on the amount of triggers you can use or something? I've heard about the 4MB limit, but I've also heard that Data Tables and at least one other thing were not counted in this memory limit. If you manage the data efficiently, you can probably have an active pool of up to (playercount) systems + generator + global variables + a few odd local variables, at any one time, supposing that all players all decided to explore new sectors at the exact same time. The rest (all the sectors generated but not currently active, for instance) stays in Data Tables until you need to do something with it.
The map Eiviyn described sounds like war3 battleships - in space. Thanks to this damn thread i find myself passively thinking of space maps >.< Unfortunately i think watever i come up with will just be some sort of complicated Star Battles :/
@DaFranker: Go
hmm I always forget about datatables, I never used them though.
I reached the 2mb trigger size limit with about 180k variable and 12k line trigger.
I am currently remaking most of my map, I know I could have done the whole map with half of its current trigger size
But using datatables I guess its actually possible, If anyone makes a map like that, than plz count me in (atleast as tester) as it would be probably the best map ever. (maybe a EVE online style map)
Something I had on my mind..
Let's say you have your ship, you start out with a basic ship which has 60 (can be any number) of sections. Then you have section types such as Engines, Power Source, Research Lab, Main Weapon, Secondary Weapon, Missile Storage, Engineering bay, Energy shield support.
Then based on how many sections of the ship you use for each of these types you will fly faster, have more weapons, research faster or unluck more advanced research etc. Engineering bay that's expanded could increase your ship repairs, more engine sections allows for faster engines, a better power source allows for powering more advanced tech and so on. As long as the amount of sections you can use per type is limited to some extend you cant have some super powerfull or unkillable ship (too strong shields with too good engineering for example). But it can allow you to customize if you want a speedy ship with lots of long range missiles stored (used for a spell maybe?). Or a more tankish ship with good shields, a high upgraded hull and good engineers, focussing less on weapons and speed.
It sounded nice in my head, you could implement it as a dialog UI or something with your ship as the background, then the sections placed as cubes over it to display the amount of room you have, then you can click on a type of section you want and then click on an empty cube or replace a cube. Another thing that could allow your ship even more customization is by making your ship have targetting points, such as rear left, rear right, rear, centre, front etc. And when taking damage, letting certain sections get damaged or stop working by focus firing on someone's weapons.
Perhaps too complicated for the average gamer but it could be awesome, once you have your ship's basics set up and then as you progress you make adjustments, perhaps get a bigger ship or adjust your sections organization to make it harder to take your ship down.
Just thought about it, adding hangar sections could allow you to have a small or larger fleet flying to help you out, perhaps a bit like how the cruiser (right unit?:p) uses those tiny ships to help the battle.
I am not that great on technical sides of maps myself, but I could make a drawing of what it could look like if anyone thinks it is an idea you could work with.
@DaFranker: Go
There was a mapper by the name of WarRaptor in SC1 and WC3, he did some very similar style things.
One was his "one room RPG" or something, where he created dynamic rooms using invincible supply depots to create the "walls".
He was an amazing mapper, really pushed the boundaries of the editors in SC and WC3, but never seemed to finish a project, haha.
@scmapcritic: Go
Heh, that sounds very much like me. Well, at least for the general ideas and the behavior part about never finishing a project, I mean. I won't be so bold as to claim pushing the boundaries and being amazing when I don't even have a single SC2 modding accomplishment to my name (well, that's not strictly true; I did contribute a feature or two, a bit of code, and some theory-crafting for the Cortex Roleplaying Engine project - but all things considered, I think that's not nearly on par with releasing a tech demo, let alone a complete map).
On another note, and I might be hijacking the thread a bit here (and if so I apologize, I'm just interested/curious), but I haven't seen anyone comment about races. Space games often involves multiple alien races duking it out (or talking it down) for supremacy, resources, or just because that's what they do. What do you all think would be the best way to handle races in a space game? Or is it better to avoid that issue entirely by postulating that there's only humans everywhere who have expanded and turned on eachother or somesuch? If the game allowed you to create/have your own race, what would you look for in it, expect, and think would be most fun or practical?
@Mogranlocky: Go
A drawing or a more elaborate explanation would be useless, since the system you describe happens to be exactly the staple feature of Gratuitous Space Battles (screenshot of the ship design screen). It's also been used in various forms in the Space Empires series (screenie!) and several other games.
It's basically a tried-and-true system that has a lot of merits and relatively few disadvantages, but the technical aspects of coding it are difficult for people not familiar with this type of game design philosophies and it makes balancing it out (both in the aspect of PvP balance and in the aspect of fun and options and choices and creating truly interesting/original components) rather complex.
can it be anything ? if so i would LOVE to see an galactic arms race copy wandering through the create game lobby