i have this question, because its unclear for me as a german player, if this could be allowed or not.
in germany this stuff is highly forbidden - its ridicolous i think, but the germans are just idiots on stuff like this..
back in broodwar, there was a defense map called "Nazi Defense".
a big swastika, 4 players on every end and one in the middle - flying enemies coming in waves, etc.etc...
probably some of the oldschool ums players know that map, and it was always fun!
well im recreating oldschool maps, and thought if this actually would be allowed and also accepted?
im pretty sure "Nazi Defense" as name wouldnt be possible due to publishing restrictions, but i would rename it to "Natz-Sie Def" (means smth like "own them" in german)
also the gigantic swastika would look a lil bit different but it would definitly remind the players on the old game.
what do you think? is this acceptable? or a absolute no-go?
would a project like this be possible on sc2mapster?
In the netherlands we have a new wave of nationalistic extreme right chit, ethically i would say this is not something to joke with, then again with the changes you proposed you give a message eswell.
I remember that game. Do what you want, I mean the worst that could happen it would be removed as "Inappropriate material." And you can still play your defense on LAN with friends. : / Think about all of those NAZI's that they've created in COD, the MOH series. At the time Germany was very stolz and should still be stolz. The what if's are facinating If World War II was switched and we were making games with America losing to the Nazi war marchine. Many people would be like oh that's ok, but holding an American flag is verboten. Good luck. P.s. those who think i'm a NAZI enthusiast I am not. Besides it's the producers skin not mine so it's up to him to decide what is appropriate and not appropriate.
I would say calling it Swastika defense would be less problematic considering the symbol of a Swastika isn't unique to Nazi Germany, however the word Nazi basically is.
It's not about the war, it's about genocide with German quality. American flag would just be looked at with pity. But those view synagogue relic (yes they wanted to safe something) would still be looked at with a feeling of guilt. Just like how to deal with the Israeli conflict, trying to solve it but not daring to take serious actions, but probably worse.
Just needed to get that out there, people seem to be forgetting something that should not be forgotten.
It's the name that is the problem. Associating it with socialist Germany is the part you are going to have trouble with. However, the actual
map design: the swatsika, is not offensive. The swatsika was originally a symbol of peace in India before Hitler adopted it.
The design actually makes for clever play, with how it branches. Just keep the whole "nazi" part out of it. Name it "Hakenkreuz-Delikt" or what you had it planned as.
I've never bought the "swastika originally meant peace so we can use it" excuse. If I walk in a crowd and ask how many of them relate the swastika to Indian religious symbolism or Nazi symbolism... guess what the answer will be. Whether it originally meant peace is irrelevant when it has evolved to represent the exact opposite (Usage in India being the exception). Therefore, unless you are Indian making a map for Indians, the swastika is an inappropriate symbol of hatred and personally I think anyone using it in a map would clearly only be doing so for the shock factor and should be ashamed of themselves.
Well if that's the case why do we allow Red Circles on anything? Japan committed an identical holocaust in China if not worse, and their symbol was a giant red circle.
Symbols are symbols, whether you use them in a way pertaining to the events surrounding it is one thing, but just using an inherent shape is another. Making a Nazi TD? No, Making a Swastika shaped TD, Fine, that's the big difference is what is the intent of the author.
A red circle isn't recognizable as a symbol of japan.
But people as someone said the swastika is not necessarily a nazi symbol
The one of the right is the Nazi Swastika, while the other is older and used in India (Though usually it is not rotated and has dots; like so). Though most people don't notice the difference.
In anycase, personally I think it's a better idea to just make a different map, I mean the fact that it was a swastika and called Nazi Defense isn't what made it fun. Just use a different symbol and name... :/
He is not a Nazi.
He does not try to promote Nazis.
He should be allowed to make that map.
Sometimes I think people takes that kind of stuff just too seriously. I don't want to down-play anything here, but still, we're talking about a game and not about plans for starting WWIII.
Else, how can you justify playing a game where nuclear weaponry is actively used? Nukes are a real threat in this world and yet here you are, laughting your butts off when you manage to nuke the entire enemy army. And that's perfectly fine as long as you don't wish for a real nuclear war.
As long as a game doesn't carry the wrong message it should be allowed, no matter the content. If someone doesn't like that he shall voice his complaints, but not spoil the game for others.
s3rius,
Generally speaking the reason that you should not use nazi symbols and such, is because it trivializes what happened, and as it becomes less and less of a deal it becomes once again more and more acceptable. Regardless of whether or not that is your intention, unfortunately thats what happens.
Yes that is the same thing with nukes, and it's a shame, but just because it nukes have been trivialized that doesn't make it okay... :P
In anycase, as I said its probably best to just work around the symbol and name, you can make a perfectly good map, and you don't step on any toes. Unless there are legitimate reasons why making it that way makes the game more fun, there is no reason to do it. :/
hey everyone.
i have this question, because its unclear for me as a german player, if this could be allowed or not.
in germany this stuff is highly forbidden - its ridicolous i think, but the germans are just idiots on stuff like this..
back in broodwar, there was a defense map called "Nazi Defense".
a big swastika, 4 players on every end and one in the middle - flying enemies coming in waves, etc.etc...
probably some of the oldschool ums players know that map, and it was always fun!
well im recreating oldschool maps, and thought if this actually would be allowed and also accepted?
im pretty sure "Nazi Defense" as name wouldnt be possible due to publishing restrictions, but i would rename it to "Natz-Sie Def" (means smth like "own them" in german)
also the gigantic swastika would look a lil bit different but it would definitly remind the players on the old game.
what do you think? is this acceptable? or a absolute no-go?
would a project like this be possible on sc2mapster?
As long as we do not get complaints there's no real objection for that kind of maps.
@vjeux: Go
In the netherlands we have a new wave of nationalistic extreme right chit, ethically i would say this is not something to joke with, then again with the changes you proposed you give a message eswell.
I remember that game. Do what you want, I mean the worst that could happen it would be removed as "Inappropriate material." And you can still play your defense on LAN with friends. : / Think about all of those NAZI's that they've created in COD, the MOH series. At the time Germany was very stolz and should still be stolz. The what if's are facinating If World War II was switched and we were making games with America losing to the Nazi war marchine. Many people would be like oh that's ok, but holding an American flag is verboten. Good luck. P.s. those who think i'm a NAZI enthusiast I am not. Besides it's the producers skin not mine so it's up to him to decide what is appropriate and not appropriate.
Haha, I seen 2 maps with mature content (porn) in wc3 xD .
I dont know what's wrong, just dont put it like that, in description. Coz when you describe it it sounds harsh. Just make the map :P .
I would say calling it Swastika defense would be less problematic considering the symbol of a Swastika isn't unique to Nazi Germany, however the word Nazi basically is.
@SakiSakurai: Go
It's not about the war, it's about genocide with German quality. American flag would just be looked at with pity. But those view synagogue relic (yes they wanted to safe something) would still be looked at with a feeling of guilt. Just like how to deal with the Israeli conflict, trying to solve it but not daring to take serious actions, but probably worse.
Just needed to get that out there, people seem to be forgetting something that should not be forgotten.
there was a porn td that was actually really great, was thinking of it es well.
I highly suggest you don't.
Mostly for the second reason, tbh.
@Aenigma: Go
It's the name that is the problem. Associating it with socialist Germany is the part you are going to have trouble with. However, the actual map design: the swatsika, is not offensive. The swatsika was originally a symbol of peace in India before Hitler adopted it.
The design actually makes for clever play, with how it branches. Just keep the whole "nazi" part out of it. Name it "Hakenkreuz-Delikt" or what you had it planned as.
I've never bought the "swastika originally meant peace so we can use it" excuse. If I walk in a crowd and ask how many of them relate the swastika to Indian religious symbolism or Nazi symbolism... guess what the answer will be. Whether it originally meant peace is irrelevant when it has evolved to represent the exact opposite (Usage in India being the exception). Therefore, unless you are Indian making a map for Indians, the swastika is an inappropriate symbol of hatred and personally I think anyone using it in a map would clearly only be doing so for the shock factor and should be ashamed of themselves.
okay well..
what matters is the shape of that swastika actually...
lets say i name the map "yxz td" and the map looks like this
that would work, right?
Well if that's the case why do we allow Red Circles on anything? Japan committed an identical holocaust in China if not worse, and their symbol was a giant red circle.
Symbols are symbols, whether you use them in a way pertaining to the events surrounding it is one thing, but just using an inherent shape is another. Making a Nazi TD? No, Making a Swastika shaped TD, Fine, that's the big difference is what is the intent of the author.
A red circle isn't recognizable as a symbol of japan.
But people as someone said the swastika is not necessarily a nazi symbol
The one of the right is the Nazi Swastika, while the other is older and used in India (Though usually it is not rotated and has dots; like so). Though most people don't notice the difference.
In anycase, personally I think it's a better idea to just make a different map, I mean the fact that it was a swastika and called Nazi Defense isn't what made it fun. Just use a different symbol and name... :/
He is not a Nazi.
He does not try to promote Nazis.
He should be allowed to make that map.
Sometimes I think people takes that kind of stuff just too seriously. I don't want to down-play anything here, but still, we're talking about a game and not about plans for starting WWIII.
Else, how can you justify playing a game where nuclear weaponry is actively used? Nukes are a real threat in this world and yet here you are, laughting your butts off when you manage to nuke the entire enemy army. And that's perfectly fine as long as you don't wish for a real nuclear war.
As long as a game doesn't carry the wrong message it should be allowed, no matter the content. If someone doesn't like that he shall voice his complaints, but not spoil the game for others.
I, for one, will play it as long as it's good :)
s3rius,
Generally speaking the reason that you should not use nazi symbols and such, is because it trivializes what happened, and as it becomes less and less of a deal it becomes once again more and more acceptable. Regardless of whether or not that is your intention, unfortunately thats what happens.
Yes that is the same thing with nukes, and it's a shame, but just because it nukes have been trivialized that doesn't make it okay... :P
In anycase, as I said its probably best to just work around the symbol and name, you can make a perfectly good map, and you don't step on any toes. Unless there are legitimate reasons why making it that way makes the game more fun, there is no reason to do it. :/
Flip that design you posted and just don't name the map anything Nazi/Swastika related. Problem solved.
@Aenigma: Go
Works for me, then no one can get upset over it.