As you will most likely find out, I'm just about brand new to this Site/Game (I have been lurking around and playing SC2 for a few days now and finally decided to register) and I'd very much like you, the friendly community of SCIIMAPSTER to take good care of me! I'm not much of a posting-machine on forums, I'll do my best to change that, though. Right here, right now!
Well, now that we are through with this, let's get started on explaining WHY I'm here.
Waugriffs "Curse of Time". One of the few WC3 custom-maps which I absolutely LOVE. And because I can't force anybody to play it, I encourage everyone who has not played that map before to catch up on this. The original creator of this map has unfortunately dropped the project a long time ago. Now, because up to this very day, I could not find any information on him picking it up again, I'd like to follow in his footsteps and revive the map in SCII.
Now the biggest problem there is. This will be my first map and I have just about 0 Experience with mapping. In general. I'm a total newbie. A freshling. I am WAY to green for this.
BUT! I can't help myself. I want this. And that's where you come in. I am happy for every earnest reply ( just to be honest, I also hope that Waugriff (IF, by chance, he lurks on this Forum) will read this and give me his consent or even help me out (Hell I would be happy even if he took charge of this project) on this.) .
For those of us who are too lazy to play, could you explain the game?
Also, i suggest not using SCII, because it looks like ASCII, use SC2. Just a suggestion.
Of course, of course! I'm sorry! I should've taken that into consideration!
Also for those who still want to try the map, I should mention that there course variations of the map which will give you a wring picture of the map because you will most likely die to the overbuffed creeps right at the start of the map. I recommend "Waugriffs COT RPG v3.9.3S" which was modded by Stardragon after Waugriff unlocked the map for those who want to get have the full experience.
And thanks! Will I will now use SC2 as you suggested. ;)
So straight to the point then!
Waugriffs Curse of Time can be seen as a kind of Hero Arena/Melee/RPG - Hybrid map which has a good amount of sandbox, lays great emphasis on the hero you choose at the beginning and can change dramatically in difficulty depending on HOW you choose to play. What might at first sound strange/interesting can get pretty frustrating OR engrossing later on, starting with the terrain given.
(I'll seperate gameplay and map layout as good as I can)
Map layout
In one of the corners of the map, there is a platform, seperated from the actually playable area. That is where you choose your hero (with only one repick allowed, though I'm unsure if I'll want to keep that. Probably not.) and after you've choosen cour hero there is a little area from where you will be teleported to a deserted road on the actual map. Scattered around the map are some "pre-made fortresses". Also there are many different areas (with fitting creeps and creep-bosses) where the terrain differs from the usual forest style of the map, biomes, so to say. In the middle of the map we have a town, every road leads back there. And the town is the spot the MAGIC starts.
Gameplay
After choosing your hero and teleporting to the deserted road I mentioned before, your best (and probably only real) bet is to sneak your way to town while picking off a few lvl 1 creeps along the way and collecting a few items to sell. Now that you've arrived at the town (probably dying once, which is not too dramatic because you have an item that revives you three times before you actually die) you have to choose. Will you raise an empire to fight for your sake and to make yourself the supreme ruler of the map or will you become a lone bandit on his long way to become a killer of gods? Either way, you'll have to purchase a base first (just to be honest. I never understood why anybody would choose being a lone bandit over being an emperor). Now that you have purchased one of the above you should settle down in one of the "pre-made fortresses" (and you should hurry at that, there aren't enough bases for everyone.) which are really just places encased by mostly impassable terrain with one gate (a pretty strong one that can be opened and closed with a lever from the inside) for entrance. Now you can either grind eternally and hunt down creep-bosses (none are impossible to beat, but hard as hell.) OR you go forth to seek and destroy the other players.
Oh. And... No base, no respawn. So you should hurry to get one as soon as you've choosen your hero.
Well. That's about it in a nutshell, I think. If there's still room for questions, I'll be happy to answer each and every one of them! :D
It was definitely one of the big maps that most, if not every, War3 player has played... and it influenced a lot in the save/load RPG genre. Although if I remember right, it could probably use quite a bit of balance (through higher levels) and better terrain design... and better polish of course; the sc2 editor allows for such improvements (and more!), but at an extreme cost of time and understanding.
You may notice a lack of decent RPGs (or any RPGs) on Battle.net for SC2, just because it takes VERY VERY long to make one. Take making an item for instance, you have to make the item itself, the unit for it, the actor for it, the button for it, and then any behaviors/abilities/weapons for it, and then add it to a train ability for a vendor or a loot object for a mob.
And there's not as much to copy+paste from anymore...
Well, my point is that you should probably not start out making COT rpg, because I am fairly certain you will quit before you finish it.
And let's say you do finish the map... now you have to deal with the popularity system. You will work hard and get it boosted by your friends to prop it up, and if it's good it'll hit page 1... and now you're getting 10-20 emails a day about changes/fixes, everyone wants everything done asap, and then you'll burn yourself out fixing it... and a few weeks later it drops into the abyss, only to be played by the remaining few who are diehard fans..
Good luck heh... most of my comments are part of the reason this site is less active than it once was...
Edit: But don't let me saying 'no' stop you... prove me wrong.
Wow, thats one negative view. But I do see your point and it's not like I have never thought about it myself. Just why should that stop me from trying? Yes, it's going to be a ton of work and I might even go berserk in front of the screen a few times because it's an overwhelming annoyance but it can be fun as well, right? There wouldn't be as many maps as there are now if people didn't like creating maps for others and themselves to play. At least I love working my ass off and SC2 as well. That should be enough, right?
I totally agree with you. I'am spending months on a map but it is probably not going to get played more then 10 hours besides my friends and I testing it..
I most likely won't do another map after this, but I have learned SO MUCH about triggers, data editing, terrain etc. So I won't say the time has been wasted, it has been a good investment!
Yeah Adrian it's definitely a good experience, and if you can finish it then that's awesome! Don't disappear forever, HOTS may have some benefits we haven't seen yet...
To ZeroEdge: I'm not picking on your or your idea or your mapping plans; it's just you mention that you have 0 experience, and you're trying to make an RPG in the Galaxy editor which is no small task. It will definitely be fun if you can handle it (so I do recommend mapping, just maybe not this map right away). Programming or past-editor experience will help a lot... but anything can be learned... just saying that I started in the War3 editor many years ago and am pretty experienced in the sc2 one now, and am warning you that there will be big stumbling blocks.
The other thing is that in a month you might find you're not interested in it anymore :/ (this is not uncommon)
And yes the point of mapping is to make things you and others can enjoy, which is where my rant about the popularity system came in.
Finding other mappers to help you will probably mean you have to provide some asset for them. ie what if you went away and learned the ins and outs of the editor, and came back in 2 months with this idea again, with a solid plan and solid ground for what you can do vs what you need others to do. Pics always help too!
I usually don't respond to idea threads that much, but I want to make the site more active, and I really wanted to help fill you in on the mapping scene since you are new.
And again ZeroEdge, prove me wrong and blow me away :D
I never thought you were picking on me. I know that you were only trying to help me by "showing me reality" in stating the facts that I am new to this and shouldn't try the hardest road right away.
And as I've written before I'm already aware of that. I know it's going to be a crapton of work and all. But I didn't see any suggestions in your first post as to how I should proceed with this (though I think that might be because I only went over it swiftly and missed the already hinted suggestion).
(Though I don't think that I'll lose interest in this. I've been thirsting for such a chance ever since I played COT the first time xD )
Now that you've shown me another path (one that is a lot more reasonable than my approach), I think I'll take that and come back when I have a solid plan and at least a minor understanding of what I'm doing.
I think I'm going to be asking a lot around here ;)
Yeah by all means ask around here, and also use the search a lot... the amount of posts/questions already made is simply amazing on this site... one of the most valuable resources I've ever seen aside from maybe StackOverflow.com
As far as how to proceed, I would again just suggest learning the editor so you can map out what you'll need to do (ie set expectations and goals). Then assess what you can do yourself or what you want to do yourself.
For me, anRPG involves planning (levels, classes, abilities, features, items, stats, etc), and then terrain work, data work to put the features in place, and then trigger work to put the functionality of every feature in place. Along these notes, we have TONS of tutorials you can check out on the site. I have even released several of my maps (including an unfinished RPG) which you can check out and learn/take from (my map pack thread).
Good to see another beginner with drive popping up. I have my own RPG in mind, one that won't be mentioned much if at all until I have something worth testing out there. I have a whole, week and a half experience with this editor, and admittedly first looking at it, my first response was what the #%#%. There is so much data bouncing around, data to link around, etceteras. It can really give one a headache. Should be mentioned my last blizzard editor was for SC/BW, but I am by no means a new map maker. I've made maps for doom2, quake1, quake2, SC/BW, and done a lot of programming courses with about 4-5 different languages and fun programming projects with a lot of semi-advanced math involved.
That said, don't lose that determination to make something new, keep right on at it. But keep it reasonable on yourself. Like make a goal for a week, such as figuring out how to make a new basic unit, no special abilities, no special weapon. Then maybe the next week make a basic weapon. With my background this editor does a fine job confusing the hell out of me when it comes down to the data editor, so don't expect yourself to get it immediately.
So keep at it, just don't expect too much from yourself too fast. I'll be happy to answer any question I know a solution for, I'm sure many others on here feel the same way.
Remaking an old favorite map of mine is how I first got into editing in WC3. However, that first game I made was a massive RPG. I did finish it, but it took me 5 years to do it and no one plays it. I had fun making it, and now I've been doing SC2 dev for years and learned a lot. My advice is to edit for yourself to make the game you want to play, and then hope it works out in the end. It's definitely a hobby.
You can search the forums, which have answers to almost every question I've ever had about the editor, but please feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
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Hi! I hope I'm in the right spot with this!
As you will most likely find out, I'm just about brand new to this Site/Game (I have been lurking around and playing SC2 for a few days now and finally decided to register) and I'd very much like you, the friendly community of SCIIMAPSTER to take good care of me! I'm not much of a posting-machine on forums, I'll do my best to change that, though. Right here, right now!
Well, now that we are through with this, let's get started on explaining WHY I'm here.
Waugriffs "Curse of Time". One of the few WC3 custom-maps which I absolutely LOVE. And because I can't force anybody to play it, I encourage everyone who has not played that map before to catch up on this. The original creator of this map has unfortunately dropped the project a long time ago. Now, because up to this very day, I could not find any information on him picking it up again, I'd like to follow in his footsteps and revive the map in SCII.
Now the biggest problem there is. This will be my first map and I have just about 0 Experience with mapping. In general. I'm a total newbie. A freshling. I am WAY to green for this.
BUT! I can't help myself. I want this. And that's where you come in. I am happy for every earnest reply ( just to be honest, I also hope that Waugriff (IF, by chance, he lurks on this Forum) will read this and give me his consent or even help me out (Hell I would be happy even if he took charge of this project) on this.) .
Also I'm happy for every helpful pair of hands!
For those of us who are too lazy to play, could you explain the game?
Also, i suggest not using SCII, because it looks like ASCII, use SC2. Just a suggestion.
Of course, of course! I'm sorry! I should've taken that into consideration! Also for those who still want to try the map, I should mention that there course variations of the map which will give you a wring picture of the map because you will most likely die to the overbuffed creeps right at the start of the map. I recommend "Waugriffs COT RPG v3.9.3S" which was modded by Stardragon after Waugriff unlocked the map for those who want to get have the full experience.
And thanks! Will I will now use SC2 as you suggested. ;)
So straight to the point then!
Waugriffs Curse of Time can be seen as a kind of Hero Arena/Melee/RPG - Hybrid map which has a good amount of sandbox, lays great emphasis on the hero you choose at the beginning and can change dramatically in difficulty depending on HOW you choose to play. What might at first sound strange/interesting can get pretty frustrating OR engrossing later on, starting with the terrain given.
(I'll seperate gameplay and map layout as good as I can)
Map layout In one of the corners of the map, there is a platform, seperated from the actually playable area. That is where you choose your hero (with only one repick allowed, though I'm unsure if I'll want to keep that. Probably not.) and after you've choosen cour hero there is a little area from where you will be teleported to a deserted road on the actual map. Scattered around the map are some "pre-made fortresses". Also there are many different areas (with fitting creeps and creep-bosses) where the terrain differs from the usual forest style of the map, biomes, so to say. In the middle of the map we have a town, every road leads back there. And the town is the spot the MAGIC starts.
Gameplay After choosing your hero and teleporting to the deserted road I mentioned before, your best (and probably only real) bet is to sneak your way to town while picking off a few lvl 1 creeps along the way and collecting a few items to sell. Now that you've arrived at the town (probably dying once, which is not too dramatic because you have an item that revives you three times before you actually die) you have to choose. Will you raise an empire to fight for your sake and to make yourself the supreme ruler of the map or will you become a lone bandit on his long way to become a killer of gods? Either way, you'll have to purchase a base first (just to be honest. I never understood why anybody would choose being a lone bandit over being an emperor). Now that you have purchased one of the above you should settle down in one of the "pre-made fortresses" (and you should hurry at that, there aren't enough bases for everyone.) which are really just places encased by mostly impassable terrain with one gate (a pretty strong one that can be opened and closed with a lever from the inside) for entrance. Now you can either grind eternally and hunt down creep-bosses (none are impossible to beat, but hard as hell.) OR you go forth to seek and destroy the other players.
Oh. And... No base, no respawn. So you should hurry to get one as soon as you've choosen your hero.
Well. That's about it in a nutshell, I think. If there's still room for questions, I'll be happy to answer each and every one of them! :D
So. Is it safe to assume, this thread has already died?
It was definitely one of the big maps that most, if not every, War3 player has played... and it influenced a lot in the save/load RPG genre. Although if I remember right, it could probably use quite a bit of balance (through higher levels) and better terrain design... and better polish of course; the sc2 editor allows for such improvements (and more!), but at an extreme cost of time and understanding.
You may notice a lack of decent RPGs (or any RPGs) on Battle.net for SC2, just because it takes VERY VERY long to make one. Take making an item for instance, you have to make the item itself, the unit for it, the actor for it, the button for it, and then any behaviors/abilities/weapons for it, and then add it to a train ability for a vendor or a loot object for a mob.
And there's not as much to copy+paste from anymore...
Well, my point is that you should probably not start out making COT rpg, because I am fairly certain you will quit before you finish it.
And let's say you do finish the map... now you have to deal with the popularity system. You will work hard and get it boosted by your friends to prop it up, and if it's good it'll hit page 1... and now you're getting 10-20 emails a day about changes/fixes, everyone wants everything done asap, and then you'll burn yourself out fixing it... and a few weeks later it drops into the abyss, only to be played by the remaining few who are diehard fans..
Good luck heh... most of my comments are part of the reason this site is less active than it once was...
Edit: But don't let me saying 'no' stop you... prove me wrong.
Wow, thats one negative view. But I do see your point and it's not like I have never thought about it myself. Just why should that stop me from trying? Yes, it's going to be a ton of work and I might even go berserk in front of the screen a few times because it's an overwhelming annoyance but it can be fun as well, right? There wouldn't be as many maps as there are now if people didn't like creating maps for others and themselves to play. At least I love working my ass off and SC2 as well. That should be enough, right?
@OneTwoSC: Go
I totally agree with you. I'am spending months on a map but it is probably not going to get played more then 10 hours besides my friends and I testing it..
I most likely won't do another map after this, but I have learned SO MUCH about triggers, data editing, terrain etc. So I won't say the time has been wasted, it has been a good investment!
Yeah Adrian it's definitely a good experience, and if you can finish it then that's awesome! Don't disappear forever, HOTS may have some benefits we haven't seen yet...
To ZeroEdge: I'm not picking on your or your idea or your mapping plans; it's just you mention that you have 0 experience, and you're trying to make an RPG in the Galaxy editor which is no small task. It will definitely be fun if you can handle it (so I do recommend mapping, just maybe not this map right away). Programming or past-editor experience will help a lot... but anything can be learned... just saying that I started in the War3 editor many years ago and am pretty experienced in the sc2 one now, and am warning you that there will be big stumbling blocks.
The other thing is that in a month you might find you're not interested in it anymore :/ (this is not uncommon)
And yes the point of mapping is to make things you and others can enjoy, which is where my rant about the popularity system came in.
Finding other mappers to help you will probably mean you have to provide some asset for them. ie what if you went away and learned the ins and outs of the editor, and came back in 2 months with this idea again, with a solid plan and solid ground for what you can do vs what you need others to do. Pics always help too!
I usually don't respond to idea threads that much, but I want to make the site more active, and I really wanted to help fill you in on the mapping scene since you are new.
And again ZeroEdge, prove me wrong and blow me away :D
It's okay. :)
I never thought you were picking on me. I know that you were only trying to help me by "showing me reality" in stating the facts that I am new to this and shouldn't try the hardest road right away. And as I've written before I'm already aware of that. I know it's going to be a crapton of work and all. But I didn't see any suggestions in your first post as to how I should proceed with this (though I think that might be because I only went over it swiftly and missed the already hinted suggestion).
(Though I don't think that I'll lose interest in this. I've been thirsting for such a chance ever since I played COT the first time xD )
Now that you've shown me another path (one that is a lot more reasonable than my approach), I think I'll take that and come back when I have a solid plan and at least a minor understanding of what I'm doing.
I think I'm going to be asking a lot around here ;)
So thanks for getting me started OneTwoSC! :D
@ZeroEdge1991: Go
Yeah by all means ask around here, and also use the search a lot... the amount of posts/questions already made is simply amazing on this site... one of the most valuable resources I've ever seen aside from maybe StackOverflow.com
As far as how to proceed, I would again just suggest learning the editor so you can map out what you'll need to do (ie set expectations and goals). Then assess what you can do yourself or what you want to do yourself.
For me, anRPG involves planning (levels, classes, abilities, features, items, stats, etc), and then terrain work, data work to put the features in place, and then trigger work to put the functionality of every feature in place. Along these notes, we have TONS of tutorials you can check out on the site. I have even released several of my maps (including an unfinished RPG) which you can check out and learn/take from (my map pack thread).
@ZeroEdge1991: Go
Good to see another beginner with drive popping up. I have my own RPG in mind, one that won't be mentioned much if at all until I have something worth testing out there. I have a whole, week and a half experience with this editor, and admittedly first looking at it, my first response was what the #%#%. There is so much data bouncing around, data to link around, etceteras. It can really give one a headache. Should be mentioned my last blizzard editor was for SC/BW, but I am by no means a new map maker. I've made maps for doom2, quake1, quake2, SC/BW, and done a lot of programming courses with about 4-5 different languages and fun programming projects with a lot of semi-advanced math involved.
That said, don't lose that determination to make something new, keep right on at it. But keep it reasonable on yourself. Like make a goal for a week, such as figuring out how to make a new basic unit, no special abilities, no special weapon. Then maybe the next week make a basic weapon. With my background this editor does a fine job confusing the hell out of me when it comes down to the data editor, so don't expect yourself to get it immediately.
So keep at it, just don't expect too much from yourself too fast. I'll be happy to answer any question I know a solution for, I'm sure many others on here feel the same way.
Remaking an old favorite map of mine is how I first got into editing in WC3. However, that first game I made was a massive RPG. I did finish it, but it took me 5 years to do it and no one plays it. I had fun making it, and now I've been doing SC2 dev for years and learned a lot. My advice is to edit for yourself to make the game you want to play, and then hope it works out in the end. It's definitely a hobby.
You can search the forums, which have answers to almost every question I've ever had about the editor, but please feel free to PM me if you have any questions.