How about the issue with ranged attacks...you set it up so that the monsters when attacked will attack your hero automatically. And maybe...somehow remove their behavior that makes them attack you automatically if a nearby friend of their's is attacked and instead set it up so when and only when a nearby enemy attacks, or come near him, then they attack.
This is a smarter AI system, but I don't think it'll make much difference. Is it possible you can make it so that it is like 40 per room. However, they dont respawn unless there are 5 monsters left in that level. Then it respawns to keep it at a level of 5 monsters. Would that work?
@yukaboy: Go
They will attack if an enemy is attacked next to them (alerting radius: 2).
The vision itself is enough to make them attack because of weapon scan range, else they never notice you.
I could add a behavior that periodically scans for enemies within a given range and check if they are within a max pathing distance (behavior -> periodic search effect -> validator with pathing distance). So they would be able to see around corners (sucks 2), but they won't be able to notice you through room walls.
I would limit the sight range to 1 and the weapon scan distance, too.
I don't understand what you mean with the 40 monsters per room. It would be to crowded, every room would be crowded. Monsters would block each other. Then AoE attacks would be everything left in the game or I had to nerf them to death because you would always hit multiple monsters.
Ah, that is actually exactly the stuff I meant :) I don't know how to get a good way around the player vision problem you mentioned above. And I'm definitely not an expert on the whole AI thing, I'm just starting to fiddle around with what is possible and how I get units to do the things I want myself. Sadly there is really little content on SC2M about how you get something AI related to work properly. I think this is mainly because AI is a very special work, which requires completely different concepts for different types of games/maps.
The thing about AI is that you really have to cover everything that should be done. So what I mean is that you could try to start with a completely neutral AI, and work your way up from there, start with making units attack you under circumstances that fit etc.
I played your map in the meantime btw, and I think it is great. But for everyone who played Diablo, it is just annoying to encounter mobs in rooms which have already been cleared before. It makes you feel really unsafe and you get overly cautious, especially at your first levels when you can't get a lot of tp scrolls and potions.
Also I personally would prefer the camera to be zoomed in a bit more, and also play a bit more with the light and shadow inside the dungeon. But I don't know how that looks in action, I guess you already tried a lot out and just applied what looked best, and I think that is a good way to go :). I personally think Diablo I is the best game of the series so far (yes, I have played Diablo 3! ;) ), and it is mainly because of the atmosphere, so I'd love to have even more light and shadow (mainly shadow) stuff in there.
A funny thing to note: The Diablo I AI actually reacted according to the players light radius. So if you didn't see them, they couldn't see you either. As there were items obtainable which decreased your light radius, it was possible to aggro very little mobs while running through the whole game, because they just didn't see you ;)
There are a lot of ways to make AIs work, it is hard to tell which way is the best.
I meant leave the 40 monsters per level...meaning...ex: cathedral level 1, 2, 3 etc. Then the main idea behind what I said was to make it so there was a point they start respawning, but only at a small amount rather than 40 all the time in the whole game.
I tried to play this the other night with a friend, and as soon as the map loaded we got disconected. Is it multiplayer friendly?
Yes, it is for 1 to 4 players.
Did you try it again? Editors closed? Tried it with a fresh sc2 start (-> restart sc2)?
@yukaboy: Go
It would be possible. Since I disallowed usage of spawnpoints within a pathing distance around the heroes, that seems reasonable to limit this below 40.
I will tinker with that because it seems reasonable. I will use 34-2*playercount for now.
Respawns numbers are:
playercount - respawncount
1 - 40
2 - 67
3 - 80
4 - 88
xp, health, goldamount, itemdropchances are modified, too. If a person leaves the game, the settings will be adjusted to the new player amount (respawns are lowered correctly, too).
With the exception of dungeon doodads, the loot/enemyLife output should be potentially equal for every player.
I'd like to request d2 and 3 when its finished. :D
However, I understand you still have a ways to go. I was trying to do quests the other day and realized they werent there and thought they werent implemented yet, is this true? Oh and yea, what egodbout said...the terrain in the town is what I meant. It looks similar to the original one, but I don't think it's quite there. And yea, the camera seems to be far away from the player. That needs fixing too. Thanks for doing such a wonderful job. Keep it up! :D
@yukaboy: Go
There are all cathedral level quests fully implemented. That doesn't mean that you always get the first quest directly at start in town. The quest pattern is the original one (first 4 cathedral levels = 2 quest groups with random picks out of each group).
@egodbout: Go
What are the most horrible things in town?
Can you go into more details with your change proposal in the movement system, if it's not the following?
If you mean that having non - default weapon on the left mouse button isn't usable, yet, because they are still treated equally (like you order with spell there and it happens there). I need to change that the left mouse button only activates the skill, if you are next to an enemy with your mouse or holding shift.
_____________
I've had a need to create a loading system for dungeon levels to improve overall performance.
That means that you might experience loading times (because I don't like freezing the game with 1 huge lag for 5 seconds).
The problem was that 10k units eat 100 fps. But I don't need to have 10k units on the map at once, so I've created an infrastructure that allows me to unload whole dungeon levels. If I could change terrain texture, minimap and fog data, I could create bigger dungeons and more (atm I will need to reduce the size of everything, or map dimensions will be raised).
Loading a dungeon, if needed, already works. I still need to decide when to serialize/save a dungeon. (Maybe after 60 seconds of no visit while having at least 3 loaded dungeons). Also I need to handle the worst possible scenario: someone wants to enter a level that is within its serialization phase (= either long waiting or cancel + deserialize + revert temporary changes).
I couldn't test that in battle.net today. But I will do that tomorrow. So I hope that 10-15 seconds waiting for loading a serialized dungeon is acceptable for having more FPS. The map you played had 5 dungeons existing all the time.
If someone knows a limit with the data table, I would like to know it. At least I can store 9 dungeon levels without problems right now.
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Curse PremiumHow about the issue with ranged attacks...you set it up so that the monsters when attacked will attack your hero automatically. And maybe...somehow remove their behavior that makes them attack you automatically if a nearby friend of their's is attacked and instead set it up so when and only when a nearby enemy attacks, or come near him, then they attack.
This is a smarter AI system, but I don't think it'll make much difference. Is it possible you can make it so that it is like 40 per room. However, they dont respawn unless there are 5 monsters left in that level. Then it respawns to keep it at a level of 5 monsters. Would that work?
@yukaboy: Go They will attack if an enemy is attacked next to them (alerting radius: 2).
The vision itself is enough to make them attack because of weapon scan range, else they never notice you.
I could add a behavior that periodically scans for enemies within a given range and check if they are within a max pathing distance (behavior -> periodic search effect -> validator with pathing distance). So they would be able to see around corners (sucks 2), but they won't be able to notice you through room walls.
I would limit the sight range to 1 and the weapon scan distance, too.
I don't understand what you mean with the 40 monsters per room. It would be to crowded, every room would be crowded. Monsters would block each other. Then AoE attacks would be everything left in the game or I had to nerf them to death because you would always hit multiple monsters.
@Ahli634: Go
Ah, that is actually exactly the stuff I meant :) I don't know how to get a good way around the player vision problem you mentioned above. And I'm definitely not an expert on the whole AI thing, I'm just starting to fiddle around with what is possible and how I get units to do the things I want myself. Sadly there is really little content on SC2M about how you get something AI related to work properly. I think this is mainly because AI is a very special work, which requires completely different concepts for different types of games/maps.
The thing about AI is that you really have to cover everything that should be done. So what I mean is that you could try to start with a completely neutral AI, and work your way up from there, start with making units attack you under circumstances that fit etc.
See this thread http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/1828-trigger-multithreading-and-ai/
I played your map in the meantime btw, and I think it is great. But for everyone who played Diablo, it is just annoying to encounter mobs in rooms which have already been cleared before. It makes you feel really unsafe and you get overly cautious, especially at your first levels when you can't get a lot of tp scrolls and potions.
Also I personally would prefer the camera to be zoomed in a bit more, and also play a bit more with the light and shadow inside the dungeon. But I don't know how that looks in action, I guess you already tried a lot out and just applied what looked best, and I think that is a good way to go :). I personally think Diablo I is the best game of the series so far (yes, I have played Diablo 3! ;) ), and it is mainly because of the atmosphere, so I'd love to have even more light and shadow (mainly shadow) stuff in there.
A funny thing to note: The Diablo I AI actually reacted according to the players light radius. So if you didn't see them, they couldn't see you either. As there were items obtainable which decreased your light radius, it was possible to aggro very little mobs while running through the whole game, because they just didn't see you ;)
There are a lot of ways to make AIs work, it is hard to tell which way is the best.
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Curse Premium@Ahli634: Go
I tried to play this the other night with a friend, and as soon as the map loaded we got disconected. Is it multiplayer friendly?
Go play Antioch Chronicles Remastered!
Also, coming soon, Antioch Episode 3: Thoughts in Chaos!
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Curse Premium@Ahli634: Go
I meant leave the 40 monsters per level...meaning...ex: cathedral level 1, 2, 3 etc. Then the main idea behind what I said was to make it so there was a point they start respawning, but only at a small amount rather than 40 all the time in the whole game.
Yes, it is for 1 to 4 players.
Did you try it again? Editors closed? Tried it with a fresh sc2 start (-> restart sc2)?
@yukaboy: Go It would be possible. Since I disallowed usage of spawnpoints within a pathing distance around the heroes, that seems reasonable to limit this below 40.
I will tinker with that because it seems reasonable. I will use 34-2*playercount for now.
Respawns numbers are:
playercount - respawncount
1 - 40
2 - 67
3 - 80
4 - 88
xp, health, goldamount, itemdropchances are modified, too. If a person leaves the game, the settings will be adjusted to the new player amount (respawns are lowered correctly, too).
With the exception of dungeon doodads, the loot/enemyLife output should be potentially equal for every player.
its pretty cool my suggestion:
-Change camera view
-Change Movement system
-Get a ride of the respawm its annoying (there is no respawm in diablo anyway)
-Change town terrain, horrible
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Curse Premium@yukaboy: Go There are all cathedral level quests fully implemented. That doesn't mean that you always get the first quest directly at start in town. The quest pattern is the original one (first 4 cathedral levels = 2 quest groups with random picks out of each group).
@egodbout: Go What are the most horrible things in town?
Can you go into more details with your change proposal in the movement system, if it's not the following?
If you mean that having non - default weapon on the left mouse button isn't usable, yet, because they are still treated equally (like you order with spell there and it happens there). I need to change that the left mouse button only activates the skill, if you are next to an enemy with your mouse or holding shift.
_____________
I've had a need to create a loading system for dungeon levels to improve overall performance.
That means that you might experience loading times (because I don't like freezing the game with 1 huge lag for 5 seconds).
The problem was that 10k units eat 100 fps. But I don't need to have 10k units on the map at once, so I've created an infrastructure that allows me to unload whole dungeon levels. If I could change terrain texture, minimap and fog data, I could create bigger dungeons and more (atm I will need to reduce the size of everything, or map dimensions will be raised).
Loading a dungeon, if needed, already works. I still need to decide when to serialize/save a dungeon. (Maybe after 60 seconds of no visit while having at least 3 loaded dungeons). Also I need to handle the worst possible scenario: someone wants to enter a level that is within its serialization phase (= either long waiting or cancel + deserialize + revert temporary changes).
I couldn't test that in battle.net today. But I will do that tomorrow. So I hope that 10-15 seconds waiting for loading a serialized dungeon is acceptable for having more FPS. The map you played had 5 dungeons existing all the time.
If someone knows a limit with the data table, I would like to know it. At least I can store 9 dungeon levels without problems right now.