First off, let me say that this map became a bit of an obsession of mine and I'd queue up basically whenever I was playing SC2 at all.
The map is simple, but that's where it's greatness comes from. It's the already-proven Starcraft 2 melee gameplay, with a twist. All of the players on the map start as allies and are randomly divided into 3 roles: Slayer, Paladin, and Phantom. The Phantoms' roles are to discover who the other Phantom is, and kill everyone else. The Slayers and Paladins, conversely, should discover who the Phantoms are and slay them. The Phantoms receive ever-increasing amounts of supply and minerals/gas the entire game to make time a factor. Paladins also receive bonus minerals (though they do not increase over time) to help stave off rushing Phantoms at the beginning.
Because Phantom is a game of deception and most of the Starcraft 2 population is apeshit retarded, you often get quite amusing results. It's common to see ragequits, yelling, etc. Almost every game will invariably have the Slayers or Paladins accidentally kill a fellow ally. That's where the fun deception element comes into play. A Phantom can sit back and convince everyone he's a Slayer until the last moment, and have them pick off the seemingly "powerful" Paladins or Slayers. Then, when the moment is right, the Phantoms can strike and overwhelm. Good use of melee tactics and teamwork, however, can overcome a novice Phantom or even a good one provided too much time hasn't ticked by.
Inherently, the game only has a few flaws, namely it's annoying as hell when a player has his entire army wiped out but 1 worker escapes to start building a whole new base elsewhere and you have to look for it. Or when they just start spamming Nexuses everywhere. Really, workers shouldn't keep you "alive" for more than the first 10 minutes at most. If all of your buildings are destroyed, it should mean defeat.
Also, it's fairly common for those who are chosen to be Slayers to ragequit and join another game until they're not one. Frankly, that's just more indicative of their laziness. The game is fun for Slayers, Paladins, and Phantoms alike. Admittedly, it can be less fun as a Slayer, but that's just part of the game.
Up until this point I'd rate Phantom mode a 4/5 on the fun scale. Things begin to fall apart after an update the maker made about a week or two ago.
The maker of the map, trying to balance it to make ground more effective, made the fatal flaw of using a horrendously ugly melee terrain that he had made. This man is not a terrainer. The terrain makes me want to puke and doesn't even resolve the issues that he brought up regarding ground. The fact that this hasn't been reverted just reeks of incompetence. (A majority of the players I encountered did not like this terrain either.)
In addition, it's become fairly common to see parties of four players queue together, ignore their role selection, and just blindly kill everyone. It's a waste of my time when I'm playing for one goal: kill a Phantom, while a Phantom, two Slayers, and Paladin are playing to kill me. This could be resolved through creative use of teams, however, I haven't seen that done yet.
At this point, I'd rate the map a 2/5. Is it still playable? Yes. Is it worth it's place on the top ten? Not anymore, sadly.
That said, I had a lot of fun on this map and it's certainly not a lost cause.
I'm working on my own re-invention of it on the traditional Big Game Hunters map, and it's coming along nicely. But that's for another post. ;)
How does the uglyness of the terrain at all effect the game play.... It doesnt, there for it doesnt effect the fun factor. Dont rip the author for that.
Secondly IMO the whole Phantom Mode thing is stupid. Whats the point of playing it when you know half the players in game are IMBA on purpose and the other half are meant to be fodder.
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It does. I'd much rather stare at nice-looking melee terrain than a giant slab of green grass next to another giant slab of green grass. How can you possibly claim that artistic design doesn't factor into enjoyment of game play? It very easily does.
As for your second point, the point of playing it is that you're supposed to use teamwork to overcome the overpowered team. Ex: Count their units to make sure they're < 200 supply and then if they're not, all of you should attack.
Me too! I can't stop playing this stupid game! It's too addicting and mind bending but yet its such a simple concept! I want to do Ladder Games but this just keeps tying me back in.
Same thing here, quite addictive :). It does sound pretty boring at first, until you realize the game isent at all about building the right kind of units, macro or micro. It is all about mindgames.
I've played many games of Phantom Mode (probably around 100... I just like maps about mindgames, played Parasite quite a bit too), but I've never encountered groups of friends that go around killing everyone which was the major flaw you pointed to in your review. I'm sure it happens, but not very often if it does contrary to what your review states. Maybe you're playing on a different server? I play NA. As for the terrain issue, it's true that it's boring and could use some work. You'll be happy to know that the map creator is holding a terraining contest for his map so hopefully someone will submit something good (if not, at least he realizes that people don't like the bland terrain so maybe he'll figure out how to terrain himself).
Phantom Mode suffers from the same shittiness of fastest maps (void rays > the game), but with a TON of waiting doing nothing. It needs 1) Balance and 2) An incentive to make players do something so they can't just sit there for half an hour doing nothing.
Having played the original Phantom N Mod for sup com , the original purpose was the Phantoms to kill the Innocents without themselves being destroyed.
The mod adjusted the economy and unit powers, using Sup coms unique recourse system allowed the Phantoms to hide keeping at the same expansion rate as the inncocents , then using their recourse advantage to defend them selves and destroy the innocents.
When playing this mod , as a phantom I was always able to get the innocents to destroy the most powerful player, then pumping out massive amount of units and exp to take out the rest.
Phantom games are meant to be slow, the units need to be balanced for allowing MASS units, it should be about diplomacy and tactics not what the map looks like or just destroy everything.
Atleast tell what type of Phantom map your rating, If your rating the entire Phantom game in its all, There are many other types of Phantom that are altered in ways, Since i assume your from the US i have no idea what map in specific your talking about.
Like Shard says, The EU Phantom maps (SM) have some mix that force the player to not turtle up.
How does the uglyness of the terrain at all effect the game play.... It doesnt, there for it doesnt effect the fun factor. Dont rip the author for that.
I agree fully.
I actually hoped they'd make Sc2 look more like this instead of focusing so much on 3D and fancy animations. Who needs this kinda crap honestly.
Graphics is totally overrated as long as you have online achievements and 300 apm per game.
Bawk on topic:
Now, this map is so old already and I haven't noticed it anywhere - I know the gameplay from Wc3 and it was quite fun.
Be damned, popularity system, be damned!
I agree fully.
I actually hoped they'd make Sc2 look more like this instead of focusing so much on 3D and fancy animations. Who needs this kinda crap honestly.
Graphics is totally overrated as long as you have online achievements and 300 apm per game.
Bawk on topic:
Now, this map is so old already and I haven't noticed it anywhere - I know the gameplay from Wc3 and it was quite fun.
Be damned, popularity system, be damned!
Everybody has different opinions. Graphics aren't overrated when you're showing screenshots of a game, then graphics ARE everything. It's all for advertisement ... etc. But whatever, right?
The map can be improved in hundreds of ways; trigger debugger shows 10 events running a second and a huge amount of code errors. More modes, import units from the campaign (like medic and wraith, those kinds), new game-modes, etc.
Overall it's fun, but the popularity system doesn't like it.
If you wish to get an actual game going, i recommend picking Phantom II; pretty much the same, except it's up top on the list.
First off, let me say that this map became a bit of an obsession of mine and I'd queue up basically whenever I was playing SC2 at all.
The map is simple, but that's where it's greatness comes from. It's the already-proven Starcraft 2 melee gameplay, with a twist. All of the players on the map start as allies and are randomly divided into 3 roles: Slayer, Paladin, and Phantom. The Phantoms' roles are to discover who the other Phantom is, and kill everyone else. The Slayers and Paladins, conversely, should discover who the Phantoms are and slay them. The Phantoms receive ever-increasing amounts of supply and minerals/gas the entire game to make time a factor. Paladins also receive bonus minerals (though they do not increase over time) to help stave off rushing Phantoms at the beginning.
Because Phantom is a game of deception and most of the Starcraft 2 population is apeshit retarded, you often get quite amusing results. It's common to see ragequits, yelling, etc. Almost every game will invariably have the Slayers or Paladins accidentally kill a fellow ally. That's where the fun deception element comes into play. A Phantom can sit back and convince everyone he's a Slayer until the last moment, and have them pick off the seemingly "powerful" Paladins or Slayers. Then, when the moment is right, the Phantoms can strike and overwhelm. Good use of melee tactics and teamwork, however, can overcome a novice Phantom or even a good one provided too much time hasn't ticked by.
Inherently, the game only has a few flaws, namely it's annoying as hell when a player has his entire army wiped out but 1 worker escapes to start building a whole new base elsewhere and you have to look for it. Or when they just start spamming Nexuses everywhere. Really, workers shouldn't keep you "alive" for more than the first 10 minutes at most. If all of your buildings are destroyed, it should mean defeat.
Also, it's fairly common for those who are chosen to be Slayers to ragequit and join another game until they're not one. Frankly, that's just more indicative of their laziness. The game is fun for Slayers, Paladins, and Phantoms alike. Admittedly, it can be less fun as a Slayer, but that's just part of the game.
Up until this point I'd rate Phantom mode a 4/5 on the fun scale. Things begin to fall apart after an update the maker made about a week or two ago.
The maker of the map, trying to balance it to make ground more effective, made the fatal flaw of using a horrendously ugly melee terrain that he had made. This man is not a terrainer. The terrain makes me want to puke and doesn't even resolve the issues that he brought up regarding ground. The fact that this hasn't been reverted just reeks of incompetence. (A majority of the players I encountered did not like this terrain either.)
In addition, it's become fairly common to see parties of four players queue together, ignore their role selection, and just blindly kill everyone. It's a waste of my time when I'm playing for one goal: kill a Phantom, while a Phantom, two Slayers, and Paladin are playing to kill me. This could be resolved through creative use of teams, however, I haven't seen that done yet.
At this point, I'd rate the map a 2/5. Is it still playable? Yes. Is it worth it's place on the top ten? Not anymore, sadly.
That said, I had a lot of fun on this map and it's certainly not a lost cause.
I'm working on my own re-invention of it on the traditional Big Game Hunters map, and it's coming along nicely. But that's for another post. ;)
@MotiveMe: Go
How does the uglyness of the terrain at all effect the game play.... It doesnt, there for it doesnt effect the fun factor. Dont rip the author for that.
Secondly IMO the whole Phantom Mode thing is stupid. Whats the point of playing it when you know half the players in game are IMBA on purpose and the other half are meant to be fodder.
@SouLCarveRR: Go
It does. I'd much rather stare at nice-looking melee terrain than a giant slab of green grass next to another giant slab of green grass. How can you possibly claim that artistic design doesn't factor into enjoyment of game play? It very easily does.
As for your second point, the point of playing it is that you're supposed to use teamwork to overcome the overpowered team. Ex: Count their units to make sure they're < 200 supply and then if they're not, all of you should attack.
Me too! I can't stop playing this stupid game! It's too addicting and mind bending but yet its such a simple concept! I want to do Ladder Games but this just keeps tying me back in.
Same thing here, quite addictive :). It does sound pretty boring at first, until you realize the game isent at all about building the right kind of units, macro or micro. It is all about mindgames.
I've played many games of Phantom Mode (probably around 100... I just like maps about mindgames, played Parasite quite a bit too), but I've never encountered groups of friends that go around killing everyone which was the major flaw you pointed to in your review. I'm sure it happens, but not very often if it does contrary to what your review states. Maybe you're playing on a different server? I play NA. As for the terrain issue, it's true that it's boring and could use some work. You'll be happy to know that the map creator is holding a terraining contest for his map so hopefully someone will submit something good (if not, at least he realizes that people don't like the bland terrain so maybe he'll figure out how to terrain himself).
Played a few times.... It needs too much typing than I like. :P
Phantom Mode suffers from the same shittiness of fastest maps (void rays > the game), but with a TON of waiting doing nothing. It needs 1) Balance and 2) An incentive to make players do something so they can't just sit there for half an hour doing nothing.
@shardfenix: Go
Having played the original Phantom N Mod for sup com , the original purpose was the Phantoms to kill the Innocents without themselves being destroyed.
The mod adjusted the economy and unit powers, using Sup coms unique recourse system allowed the Phantoms to hide keeping at the same expansion rate as the inncocents , then using their recourse advantage to defend them selves and destroy the innocents.
When playing this mod , as a phantom I was always able to get the innocents to destroy the most powerful player, then pumping out massive amount of units and exp to take out the rest.
Phantom games are meant to be slow, the units need to be balanced for allowing MASS units, it should be about diplomacy and tactics not what the map looks like or just destroy everything.
This is the original concept if anyone's interested http://www.novatek.com.au/phantom-n.html
Atleast tell what type of Phantom map your rating, If your rating the entire Phantom game in its all, There are many other types of Phantom that are altered in ways, Since i assume your from the US i have no idea what map in specific your talking about.
Like Shard says, The EU Phantom maps (SM) have some mix that force the player to not turtle up.
I agree fully.
I actually hoped they'd make Sc2 look more like this instead of focusing so much on 3D and fancy animations. Who needs this kinda crap honestly.
Graphics is totally overrated as long as you have online achievements and 300 apm per game.
Bawk on topic:
Now, this map is so old already and I haven't noticed it anywhere - I know the gameplay from Wc3 and it was quite fun.
Be damned, popularity system, be damned!
Everybody has different opinions. Graphics aren't overrated when you're showing screenshots of a game, then graphics ARE everything. It's all for advertisement ... etc. But whatever, right?
The map can be improved in hundreds of ways; trigger debugger shows 10 events running a second and a huge amount of code errors. More modes, import units from the campaign (like medic and wraith, those kinds), new game-modes, etc.
Overall it's fun, but the popularity system doesn't like it. If you wish to get an actual game going, i recommend picking Phantom II; pretty much the same, except it's up top on the list.
I think s3rius was sarcastic ;)
@MotiveMe: Go
I wish the creator would include scout for protoss, scourge for zerg and firebat for terran.
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Curse PremiumMaybe as a different game mode, but Phantom Mode inherently is a melee game with differing rules.