So i have recently created a new map, but people just don't play it unless i wait 15 minutes for it to go to the top of the list. Once we start 90% of them leave early because they don't know what to do. Im adversiting map everywhere i can, even made trailer on youtube and asked several youtubes to review it and nobody even noticed my posts here in map section.
Id like to hear what authors of popular mods have to say about it, any advices or something, its my first map.
It it is an extension mod there isn't much we can do. Top played mods are mostly infinite resources, zombies, insta-build, and combinations of the last 3.
Its about building rapport with other players and actively playing your own map everyday. Join in some fun in other Arcade maps and start expanding your friend list. Then, start sharing your map to your friends and see.
In the end, if they are not interested and you're getting bored with your empty lobbies, you now have friends to fall on to play Arcade maps.
I'm just finishing up on some tutorials, I can tryout your map if you like.
That's a sad true i try to reject.
Once we are in the topic i have another issue. So my map turns out to be pretty complex. I don't know if it stresses people or whatever but they never come back for more and leave games pretty quickly, i start to think that top games are so popular because they are simple. Should i just give up in making complex game?
Map is called "Battlefield Strategy". Please, give it a try and tell me what you think about map, what makes people leave so early and never try it again? Is it too stressfull? Im eager to do stuff but nobody tells me where problem lies.
i dunno, as even very competitive maps can make it to the top, not just simple ones. But ofcourse most of them are simple maps that dominate the first 2 or 3 pages so some other factors do come into play, like when was the map released?. alot of the page 1 maps had their ground work released since wings of liberity building up a fan base. .
Judging by the trend that mostly simple maps see success, you will have more success with a map that sticks to the KISS principle. Which means keep it simple stupid. But at same time, if i had to make one of those dumbed-down maps i'd quit forever . Just make what you like, If you start making maps that you don't like it not going to work out. Maybe with some luck people it will catch on, but i think its too late in sc2 cycle to really make a dent on the first 2 or 3 pages of custom maps. You will always see some new map appear now and then on the first few pages but they tend to last just for a couple days then disappear into the ether.
So if you want brutal honesty, More than likely your project will not really be played that much. also the amount of players your map requires is pretty big deal nowadays. I'd say around 6-8 should be max if your aim is to get popularity . Maps that require 12 players or more will be next to impossible to get popular in todays starcraft arcade scene. All the ones that are 10+ players got established years ago.
Here is the usual error I see, and this is a problem for building anything and I will use a simple cliche to illustrate it.
Rome was not built in a day.
If you START with complex mechanics from the initial design, you are already going into niche territory. People should focus on purely the simple mechanics, and make sure those work BEFORE embarking on anything else.
I've worked on one the more complicated maps (Night of the Dead) and one thing is the game was built over time. The initial game had basic mechanics, 5 classes, and ended in <15 minutes at the first boss. It now has 4 storylines, 12-15 bosses, 15 classes, more weapons, and more items, with more enemies. But the general game started small, not big.
So start small and advertise and get involved with people, have them help out with initial idea feedback and testing.
not only i started with complex mechanics but there is also no tech tree at all, players have 30 units to choose from since first minute of playing, think its overflow of information?
So I have a couple of thoughts for you to chew on. I'm no popular game developer, but I've spent a lot of time on the same map (5 years, not kidding). You probably won't find it useful, but here it is.
Two fantastic elements of a game are polish and clarity. By polish, I mean the game better be pretty. No rough edges, it should present itself well. You shouldn't be saying "well, it's a neat concept!", it should be a neat IMPLEMENTATION. By clarity, I mean, it doesn't matter what happens in your game, what matters is how you communicate it - for this i'll use an example from my map.
Once upon a time, on level up as a little guy, you would transform into this bigger class. This was a primary mechanic of my game, it would happen all the time, every single game. I thought I hate communicated it clearly enough, but in the end, it was awful. The transformation animation was just a stupid terran explosion played on the unit - so what did I do? I changed it. It now beams down a giant yellow laser from the sky over 1.5 seconds, that slowly transforms your hero.
As for complexity, it's totally up to you how you do it and control it, but here's my personal goal. The game could be complex (which, in my case, it is via abilities and complex skills), there could be intricate interactions between units, but I'd try to make it so that regardless of what the player does, he's relatively powerful, lets say a solid 7/10 in power. Don't punish people for doing something -wrong-, but rather reward them for doing something -right- with more power, or what have you.
If your complexity is of a different nature than abilities / unit composition / balance stuff, then I'd probably shoot for something easily graspable, or well communicated. Players tend not to like tutorials. Try things like a popup hint after a few seconds (30+ ) of a player not getting the concept, that may help.
Anyway, take all this with a grain of salt. My game isn't played at all. It's not bad, it's just not great yet. Obviously, what everyone else said (like, play your own map daily) is totally a thing that needs to be done. But also make sure your game is really worth playing, too.
hi,
don't mind me chipping in my bucket of tears alonside yours.
i have simple things to say (what was said already was good and resonates quite a lot already.. doesn't it?), but they are harsh things to say:
players wont come to your map, you will bring them to it.. and they will bring more people in, or you wont
of course you can get a leg up by any type available (destiny loves your game and plays it for instance) and that will be the result of networking (work).. but beyond that .. even finding testers is ludicrously hard. Mostly because you open lobbies .. wait and wait etc
u do the forum thing and get nowhere but you do it... etc etc
i agree that one must cater to "someone" .. (personally my goal was to make a map for everyone, just for you to see where i am coming from) and that any sort of "quirkiness is impossible to "impose" on these players...
there used to be a huge market for "figuring out a game" .. alas no more...
And so the games where the dev wants its users to act this particular way ("beat the map" it used to be called) are long gone. Only amateur are "allowed" to spend time on such "low profit margin" types of games. When i say this i am saying that an investor wont give money for it, a user will not commit to this / play your game enough to see if she/he/it likes it.. this to everyone's detriment.. just because the notion of effort is completely gone from the gaming credo.
This is a sad feeling really.. i guess remains barely one option in these times, advertise a "perfect" product by saying "YOU can't beat this map!"
I'll play test the video this weekend, just make sure that the map allows me to go on despite my region and you'll have a video. if you wanna join then just add me on skype! mistapandabear885
So i have recently created a new map, but people just don't play it unless i wait 15 minutes for it to go to the top of the list. Once we start 90% of them leave early because they don't know what to do. Im adversiting map everywhere i can, even made trailer on youtube and asked several youtubes to review it and nobody even noticed my posts here in map section.
Id like to hear what authors of popular mods have to say about it, any advices or something, its my first map.
i need some attention on my map, i got exac same story, but im w8ting a hours in lobby where people keep joining and quitting again and again and nothing changes for days. map called BGHA if someone wants to play it on europe, add me to friends.
I tested it. Not much fan of moba games, actually i dislike them but its not the case - game looks good except for loading screen which has wrong resolution, anyways reason for not joining could be unfair review of 1/5 from some guy so i gave you 5/5 just to boost your average. Why they leave? Probably same case as mine, they join, they get rekt, they leave because of snowball effect: map is not popular - people join - don't know how to play - leave - not come back - map is not popular where as popular game's cycle looks more like this: map is popular - people join - don't know how to play - leave - see it again in lobby - join again. Anyways good luck with your map.
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So i have recently created a new map, but people just don't play it unless i wait 15 minutes for it to go to the top of the list. Once we start 90% of them leave early because they don't know what to do. Im adversiting map everywhere i can, even made trailer on youtube and asked several youtubes to review it and nobody even noticed my posts here in map section.
Id like to hear what authors of popular mods have to say about it, any advices or something, its my first map.
It it is an extension mod there isn't much we can do. Top played mods are mostly infinite resources, zombies, insta-build, and combinations of the last 3.
Sorry i wasn't clear enough. I mean arcade maps not extention mods.
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Curse Premium@ZenonMalinowski: Go
I have some time in about 2hs in need to test and is not a WC map you add me to play test your map.
Marie T. Freeman If you're too busy to give your neighbor a helping hand, then you're just too darned busy. https://www.facebook.com/wargirlmaps.maps
Spread the love join DISCORD
https://discord.gg/Jtzt8Su
are you creating something new? then you just don't, but the open games list allows us to play our maps at least, finally after 5 years.
yepp, if you want ppl to play your map, make a desert strike, special forces w/e, just change one thing and it will be top played.
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Curse Premium@FunkyUserName: Go
lol Funky, yes i seen it happen.
Marie T. Freeman If you're too busy to give your neighbor a helping hand, then you're just too darned busy. https://www.facebook.com/wargirlmaps.maps
Spread the love join DISCORD
https://discord.gg/Jtzt8Su
@ZenonMalinowski: Go
Its about building rapport with other players and actively playing your own map everyday. Join in some fun in other Arcade maps and start expanding your friend list. Then, start sharing your map to your friends and see.
In the end, if they are not interested and you're getting bored with your empty lobbies, you now have friends to fall on to play Arcade maps.
I'm just finishing up on some tutorials, I can tryout your map if you like.
@QueenGambit: Go
Im doing all these things without any progress, people dont play if i dont.
@FunkyUserName: Go
That's a sad true i try to reject. Once we are in the topic i have another issue. So my map turns out to be pretty complex. I don't know if it stresses people or whatever but they never come back for more and leave games pretty quickly, i start to think that top games are so popular because they are simple. Should i just give up in making complex game?
Map is called "Battlefield Strategy". Please, give it a try and tell me what you think about map, what makes people leave so early and never try it again? Is it too stressfull? Im eager to do stuff but nobody tells me where problem lies.
i dunno, as even very competitive maps can make it to the top, not just simple ones. But ofcourse most of them are simple maps that dominate the first 2 or 3 pages so some other factors do come into play, like when was the map released?. alot of the page 1 maps had their ground work released since wings of liberity building up a fan base. .
Judging by the trend that mostly simple maps see success, you will have more success with a map that sticks to the KISS principle. Which means keep it simple stupid. But at same time, if i had to make one of those dumbed-down maps i'd quit forever . Just make what you like, If you start making maps that you don't like it not going to work out. Maybe with some luck people it will catch on, but i think its too late in sc2 cycle to really make a dent on the first 2 or 3 pages of custom maps. You will always see some new map appear now and then on the first few pages but they tend to last just for a couple days then disappear into the ether.
So if you want brutal honesty, More than likely your project will not really be played that much. also the amount of players your map requires is pretty big deal nowadays. I'd say around 6-8 should be max if your aim is to get popularity . Maps that require 12 players or more will be next to impossible to get popular in todays starcraft arcade scene. All the ones that are 10+ players got established years ago.
So around 6 -8 is what you should shoot for.
Here is the usual error I see, and this is a problem for building anything and I will use a simple cliche to illustrate it.
Rome was not built in a day.
If you START with complex mechanics from the initial design, you are already going into niche territory. People should focus on purely the simple mechanics, and make sure those work BEFORE embarking on anything else.
I've worked on one the more complicated maps (Night of the Dead) and one thing is the game was built over time. The initial game had basic mechanics, 5 classes, and ended in <15 minutes at the first boss. It now has 4 storylines, 12-15 bosses, 15 classes, more weapons, and more items, with more enemies. But the general game started small, not big.
So start small and advertise and get involved with people, have them help out with initial idea feedback and testing.
@Dangel1234: Go
my map is for 8 players max with the room to expand in the future so okay
@ArcaneDurandel: Go
not only i started with complex mechanics but there is also no tech tree at all, players have 30 units to choose from since first minute of playing, think its overflow of information?
@Trieva: Go
maybe adding objectives in top left or adding AI that shows how to play?
Thank you all for your help.
So I have a couple of thoughts for you to chew on. I'm no popular game developer, but I've spent a lot of time on the same map (5 years, not kidding). You probably won't find it useful, but here it is.
Two fantastic elements of a game are polish and clarity. By polish, I mean the game better be pretty. No rough edges, it should present itself well. You shouldn't be saying "well, it's a neat concept!", it should be a neat IMPLEMENTATION. By clarity, I mean, it doesn't matter what happens in your game, what matters is how you communicate it - for this i'll use an example from my map.
Once upon a time, on level up as a little guy, you would transform into this bigger class. This was a primary mechanic of my game, it would happen all the time, every single game. I thought I hate communicated it clearly enough, but in the end, it was awful. The transformation animation was just a stupid terran explosion played on the unit - so what did I do? I changed it. It now beams down a giant yellow laser from the sky over 1.5 seconds, that slowly transforms your hero.
As for complexity, it's totally up to you how you do it and control it, but here's my personal goal. The game could be complex (which, in my case, it is via abilities and complex skills), there could be intricate interactions between units, but I'd try to make it so that regardless of what the player does, he's relatively powerful, lets say a solid 7/10 in power. Don't punish people for doing something -wrong-, but rather reward them for doing something -right- with more power, or what have you.
If your complexity is of a different nature than abilities / unit composition / balance stuff, then I'd probably shoot for something easily graspable, or well communicated. Players tend not to like tutorials. Try things like a popup hint after a few seconds (30+ ) of a player not getting the concept, that may help.
Anyway, take all this with a grain of salt. My game isn't played at all. It's not bad, it's just not great yet. Obviously, what everyone else said (like, play your own map daily) is totally a thing that needs to be done. But also make sure your game is really worth playing, too.
hi,
don't mind me chipping in my bucket of tears alonside yours.
i have simple things to say (what was said already was good and resonates quite a lot already.. doesn't it?), but they are harsh things to say:
players wont come to your map, you will bring them to it.. and they will bring more people in, or you wont
of course you can get a leg up by any type available (destiny loves your game and plays it for instance) and that will be the result of networking (work).. but beyond that .. even finding testers is ludicrously hard. Mostly because you open lobbies .. wait and wait etc
u do the forum thing and get nowhere but you do it... etc etc
i agree that one must cater to "someone" .. (personally my goal was to make a map for everyone, just for you to see where i am coming from) and that any sort of "quirkiness is impossible to "impose" on these players...
there used to be a huge market for "figuring out a game" .. alas no more...
And so the games where the dev wants its users to act this particular way ("beat the map" it used to be called) are long gone. Only amateur are "allowed" to spend time on such "low profit margin" types of games. When i say this i am saying that an investor wont give money for it, a user will not commit to this / play your game enough to see if she/he/it likes it.. this to everyone's detriment.. just because the notion of effort is completely gone from the gaming credo.
This is a sad feeling really.. i guess remains barely one option in these times, advertise a "perfect" product by saying "YOU can't beat this map!"
Sad state of affairs really.
I'll play test the video this weekend, just make sure that the map allows me to go on despite my region and you'll have a video. if you wanna join then just add me on skype! mistapandabear885
Simple.
Make a video and post it on reddit/starcraft
@ZenonMalinowski: Go
play in the NA region with me :)
i need some attention on my map, i got exac same story, but im w8ting a hours in lobby where people keep joining and quitting again and again and nothing changes for days. map called BGHA if someone wants to play it on europe, add me to friends.
@uroboros1987: Go
I tested it. Not much fan of moba games, actually i dislike them but its not the case - game looks good except for loading screen which has wrong resolution, anyways reason for not joining could be unfair review of 1/5 from some guy so i gave you 5/5 just to boost your average. Why they leave? Probably same case as mine, they join, they get rekt, they leave because of snowball effect: map is not popular - people join - don't know how to play - leave - not come back - map is not popular where as popular game's cycle looks more like this: map is popular - people join - don't know how to play - leave - see it again in lobby - join again. Anyways good luck with your map.