Brutalisk with a ranged ground attack would indeed make it better, maybe claw animation when it is attacking at melee range.
the hybrid hydralisk, if they glow do their spines glow? Will the texture be applied to all units and buildings? Is there a golden coasair texture and dark Templar texture for buildings?
maybe an ability of a tentacle attacks by removing health and gives it to itself
maybe an ability that if it kills a unit turns it into a infested unit
lurkers are supposed to be fast so that they can outrun all other units and be at front, tank the damage as they burrow when they get close enough (range is 6 and 9 (tank is 12) and it is supposed to be a siege unit).
Ideas
dark archons seem mighty strong with mind control and they don’t look different. They should lose all shield/die when taking over a unit, like a bc, thor or carrier for example or limit on non-massive units and replace the nerf with a very week attack that does not splash, or attacks every 4 seconds, 2 seconds stuns.
Infested terrans could have an infested battle-cruiser, inable the capital ship to attack
what of a battle-cruiser from sc1, same stats with a mod that removes the top bridge?
the brood with the +2 building amour could use some love. that zerg cannon rather than taking an area of 9 squares mabey use the standard 2x2 area; its not that powerfull and maybe should cost no gas, mabey on the +2 amour include an attack upgrade. It could include the zerg queen from sc1.
There are three interesting custom models; zerg tyrant, zerg hulk and protoss vindicator. Thoughts on these three?
Okay, so with this mod, you said you try to keep up with the most recent update in the HotS beta. Though the latest update is one that makes some pretty huge changes that honestly, I don't see why they did that (most namely, seeker missile and void ray). Due to just how psycho the update is, will you be incorporating these changes in the melee mod or hold off until they release another patch?
Also, regarding Dark Archons, I agree with FreezingAcidRain that they should not be able to mind control massives. That, or stick a time limit on how long they can mind control (maybe 10 seconds or something).
Alright, I just tried the Infested faction out on the Terrans, and man, they are awesome (lol at swarm hosts). Though I encountered bugs and issues... lots of them.
Aberrations and Infested Terrans spawned by swarm hosts are melee and thus don't get damage upgrades from the weapons upgrades.
Clustering up the things that spawn the Infested Terrans causes them to get stuck when they spawn (not the Swarm Hosts themselves, but the structures they make). The structures themselves should probably be capable of being walked over or something.
Aberrations are huge. TOO huge. Not their model, but their unit radius. They couldn't fit through a space that a Thor could fit through.
If the Infested Infantry get speed bonuses from creep, could you add something that allows you to place creep (considering how slow they are otherwise)? Perhaps the command centers could drop creep tumors, seeing as they don't evolve into the Orbital Commands anymore. Also, I didn't test it, but if that's added, then buildings need to be able to be built on creep.
The upgrade for reapers healing outside of combat is still in the tech lab.
When selecting multiple Aberrations and telling them to use their burrow move, only one of them will actually use it. Additionally, it says there's a 10 second cooldown, but the cooldown doesn't exist. Something else I think would be cool is if the burrow charge does a little damage through the area they pass over, seeing as it's not instant like Blink and would help make it different.
Infested Marines move considerably slower than normal Marines yet have the same stats. Could they perhaps start with 50 health instead of 45 to compensate? Health upgrade still increases by 10 health though.
Potential tech upgrade for Swarm Hosts involving faster energy regeneration? Their energy regeneration normally is quite atrocious compared to other casters, lol. Swarm Hosts also don't have a unit icon when selecting them.
I didn't really get around the factory and starport units, but I'll give them another shot later and see what I find from that.
For rip-field generators, can you make the ability list how much damage it does per second? Also, upgrade idea for it, increased radius (upgrade would be at the forge). By the way, if you place two rip-field generators in one spot, do they stack or no?
@Regretredress: Go Yeah, the hybrid hydra is complete but the textures wont show in game, so they aren't unlocked yet :-/ Gravitom Beam is insteresting but I think it kind of overlaps with fungal and the oracle's time warp so it's not a priority right now. Hardened shields is dangerous, it can become OP too easily, giving it to a unit will only happen if the role proves to be necessary for the brood.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Yeah I think I'll give the Brutalisk the same attack for both air and ground. No the spines don't glow (right now). There isn't a gold Crosair and no gray structures, that would enlarge total file size for no gameplay change. The abilities you suggested sound like some WoL beta scrapped abilities, they are already in my list of possibilities. Lurker speed was 3.375, I dou8bt they were suppsoed to be that fast, and I don't remember them burrowing that fast in BW.
I wont add the SC1 BC, it isn't different enough in game mechanics and not worth the extra file size. I made the Virophage occupy the space it did in the campaign. It is supposed to fill the Plabetary Fortress heavy defense but I know it isn't that strong now. And I'm not adding custom models that aren't supported by official lore, sorry (though there may be arguments in favor of the Vindicator).
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go Yes, Shelak uses them in place of Colossi. But they don't feel like a protoss-ish unit, I'd rather remove it.
@Vultorask: Go At first I tried to keep up with beta, but it keeps changing too fast, and I fear I may get an unwanted Blizz email if I make them exactly like the beta, so I wont do it; I wont be making all the changes in the beta, specially because the mod is WoL-based right now, with the addition of some HoTS units. When it becomes HoTS-based it will have all HoTS changes.
Yeah Mind Control needs a duration, but it will be able to target massive, no need to make it less useful than NP.
yes yes infested melee doesn't get upgraded... this must be the most reported bug ever lol. All bugs added to the list, thanks.
Rip-Fields don't stack, either you are within a rip-field or you aren't, their role is to deny shield and life regen to enemy units inside it, they deal minimal damage, but I'll add it to the tool tip.
When you change Mind Control, will you have it similar to infestor, where in this case your unit's don't attack the mind controlled unit? when units were mind controled they were attack the original allies, meaning even iif its temp dark archons could snipe enemy units and have there enemy units kill eachother. this does not happen with infestor.
How big can this map get? Is there a limit? does it efffect game preformance? or is issue with downloading and getting it? does it effect RAM useage?
@FreezingAcidRain: Go I didn't know about this detail. If units are permanently controlled I think it makes sense they will be attacked by their previous allies, but if I give it a duration I'll work to fix that.
I don't know how big it can get, I just decided I had to keep file size in mind as everytime I update it players are forced to re-download the map files, the main mod file, and the assets mods if they were changed, and no players wants to wait forever before he can play a map. It odes not effect game performance as far as I know. But anyway I set a rule for it: Custom models will only be added if they are supported by lore and they will bring some new mechanics to the table. Of course things like Dark Templar-colored buildings are interesting even if they don't come with new mechanics and I may add them, but I don't want to add the Tyrant or the Hulk. The only units that aren't based on lore are the ones that use in-game models such as the Laserdrill Tank, Taurens, Nomads, Blimps and others that come from the campaign files.
Ohhh and the Left 2 Die units, they are a special case because I wanted to make a "homage" to that mod or whatever you may call it.
I know you could argue the Hybrid Hydra isn't supported by lore, so maybe I should wait for HoTS to see some new hybrids?
This is just my opinion:
Don't add anything new to the mod until HotS comes out; just work on bug fixes and balance. This would be the "WoL" version of the mod. When HotS comes out, you could begin work for a version that would be balanced with it.
Assuming they don't revert most of the last HotS balance patch, balance in HotS will be very different than balance in WoL.
@morgoth780: Go HoTS will be released in March. I don't think it's the best idea to stick to bug fixes until then. I wont keep a "WoL version" after HoTS release, I feel there's no point. I agree balance will be very different between the 2, but the mod is about variety and I won't keep a WoL version which has no advange over a HoTS version.
I'm updating it to the HoTS beta arcade for the ones that might be interested, but since Blizzard took away my freedom to define my mod's dependencies I'm unable to add anything from the beta to it.
I agree it would be kinda boring to work on bug fixes. Do you think you'll add the the new abilities (like thor AA attack mode) as alternatives to standard WoL research?
i know terran has more factions than the rest of the protoss and zerg factions, but i feel this faction should be included anyways. its like not having crash and spyro in ps3 all stars, it doen't fell right.
UED Faction
Hurricane
Model based on the Hurricane battle cruisers
Does not have ion cannon
Instead of laser attack has missile attack (similar to the missile attack from the map “star battles”) where it will fire in a line about 6 missiles doing 10 damage every 4 seconds to ground or air units at range 6
Has an upgrade that increases to range 9
role: battle cruiser that does hard damage at siege range to individual targets. Replaces the regular battle cruisers
Titan
a 33% larger Spartan goliath model
Replaces the Thor/Goliath
cost 200mineral/125gas and 4 supply
Has 250 health.
Does damage 25 ground damage (+2 upgrade)
Does 2x 10 (+10 vs. armoured) air damage (+2 damage)
Range 6 both air and ground
Ares-Class targeting System upgrade (+3air and +1ground range)
Mutli-Lock Weapon System upgrade (target air and ground at same time)
Valkyries
Medics
skibi's angel model
Advanced Healing AI, heals 2 units at once
When UED faction is selected, all model textures should change from black\greyish to a more cleaner/whitish colour, white being the theme of the UED for units and buildings.
infested Terran Blance
For sawrmhost to go and build 4 cacoons 75mineral each as many as they like, in early or late game when there is about 30 spawning every 6 seconds this can become overwhelming. its not a full proproof win(fire, cols, archons, lurkers) and i do like the hordes that never stop but its something to bring up for debate. if we feel this is not balanced should we have the aberration have instead be similar to the sawrm host so that when it is burrowed it produceses zombies every 6 seconds? aberration look like they would fit this role with that 'baneling bubbles' it displays like its serpose to hatch something or explode and do damage.
For final polishes…
In the arcade rather than having the 4 images of 9 different maps maybe show previews of in-game interface of how selecting factions/units/upgrades work and show off the new units(older units, custom models, faction textures). I don’t think size is too much of a deal if it doesn’t affect game performance after you download it “once”. Good maps are worth the wait. Sc1 sounds that should be implemented, in order of importance: Valerie, dark archon, Arbiter, Reaver, Dragoon (maybe), defiler (maybe), and scourge (right now they have no audio). Also custom models could use sc1 audio, to give that unit its own uniqueness. Would you ever consider recycling the custom war hound and battle hellion as a different unit into this mod or into hots? The battle hellion flamethrower looks more like a cyborg with gun/cannon mounted on top.
@morgoth780: Go Adding HoTS mechanics is not priority right now, specially the ones that are still bound to change, or even be reverted. I know I added some of the units/changes before but only because we were long way from HoTS release back then, and I was working on the HoTS custom, so I could simply copy everything to SC Expanded. Now everything is different in HoTS and I don't feel like it's worth changing everything with every beta patch, I don't even have free time for that.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Ohhh the UED, people can't let them go :-) I slided through all the requests and I'll do it again. UED isn't a considerable faction (if it is at all) in the Koprulu Sector after the end of the Brood War. If HoTS or LoTV changes that I'll be more than willing to work on them, so far they're not worth the trouble.
The Infested Cocoon mechanics will have to be changed anyway. So sad because I alwaysd wanted to use those cocoons somehow. Your suggestion was added to the list.
I can add those screenshots to the How To Play section. I'm willing to add SC1 sounds, when converted to mp3 or ogg file format they are really small, and each unit didn't have many sounds anyway. Of course I'll use the Warhound if it doesn't find a use in HoTS melee or campaign, but the Hellbat (current name for the battle hellion) will still be the Hellbat, I won't change that. And unfortunately the Hellbat kills both the Firebat and the Vulture as unit options as it is right now, I'm not sure whats is going to happen with Terran options.
I thought firebats owned hell bats beacuse firebats have heavy amour (and have stim) and hell bats have light amour? vultures do longer range than hell bats and do solid 25 light damage and have spider mines. terran options can remain the same
@FreezingAcidRain: Go The issue isn't based on stats only. Sure the Firebat may be better than the Hellbat, and it even comes earlier in the tech tree, but anyway the two are too similar. Picking Firebats and Hellinos as options will make you have overlaping units in your army. The Hellbat has more life and more DPS with the Hellion blue flame upgrade, but the Firebat can stim so it's more mobile and can attack faster. But in the end the 2 are made to attack groups of light units.
The Vulture is another problem entirely. I'm not sure how Hellion vs Vulture stands as an option in WoL, but in HoTS the Hellion is geting a very good buff through this morph and all players will be able to use Widow Mines, kind of making Spider Mines pointless or at least shadowed by the new unit.
HoTS balance is coming to change a lot of other things if you stop to think about it. Medivacs got an insane buff, how does it affect the other transports and army build options?
EDIT: I just published Howling Peak to the beta server. HoTS units included for testing purposes. I hope I get some feedback on this one so I can prepare for the real porting when the game is released.
Infested marines (this is when selection units) > spellcasters & aberration
Hunter killers (this is when selection units) > spellcaster & lurkers. i dislike the pre-burrow upgrade for hunter killers as it will cause the whole group to burrow rather than only the lurkers.
Breeding mounds. rather than only having 1 and having to go to it every 20-30 second intervals, can it function like a barracks where you can click a unit 5 times and where you can build more than once. (right now you can build more than one, but the second one is useless beacuse of the timer). also model shows complete when building it...still :D
liviathan faction seems week,liviathan ground attack is slow and seems to attacj unit a, then b,c,d then back to a. vile sawrm i think should not justt be limmited to air. What are these "Lesser Adrenal Glands". is it an upgrade? a nerf? does extra speed or splits the total speed into lair? it does not appear in game.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go The issue isn't based on stats only. Sure the Firebat may be better than the Hellbat, and it even comes earlier in the tech tree, but anyway the two are too similar. Picking Firebats and Hellinos as options will make you have overlaping units in your army. The Hellbat has more life and more DPS with the Hellion blue flame upgrade, but the Firebat can stim so it's more mobile and can attack faster. But in the end the 2 are made to attack groups of light units.
Are Helinos like Dominos at all? :3
Quote:
The Vulture is another problem entirely. I'm not sure how Hellion vs Vulture stands as an option in WoL, but in HoTS the Hellion is geting a very good buff through this morph and all players will be able to use Widow Mines, kind of making Spider Mines pointless or at least shadowed by the new unit.
Don't know if it helps at all but I always liked the idea of Vultures (or a varient) being cliff jumpers as a backup to Reapers. Again, being this is a 'I think it'd be cool' idea it's probably not at all balanced :)
Before I found SC Expanded, I had the idea of Terrans being able to pick at the beginning of the match two options, either Marauder/Hellion or Firebat/Vulture.
This idea might fix the problems, I also once concepted something similar the the Hellbat for the Vulture, turning it into a Marauder of sorts but with heavier plating and stronger grenades.
Ragnarock don't get upgrades,huge medical beam laser bug that don't die and so u can see a tons of lasers that folow units healed,the same bug of my lef2die map modified,i don't know if is a bug of the map or is a bug of my sc2
Hey! Just want to say again, this is absolutely amazing. I was getting really sick of every SC2 match being the same thing, and purposely doing rediculous builds just to try and spice things up. But after finding this map the possibilities are endless. Forgive me this will probably be a long post, but I haven't been this excited about SC in a long, long time.
I have yet to play around with Zerg or Protoss much, partially because they seem a little less fleshed out, which is expected since you have a lot less to work with. I'm sure that as HotS and LotV come out, you'll get plenty of new units, buildings, and ideas to work with.
But man, I've spent the last few days constantly messing about with the terran factions, and all I can say is wow.
I will say up front that I'm just a silver league player normally, so some of the advantages of certain upgrades or units may be lost on me.
However I have a few commets/questions/possible suggestions!!
I think this mod succeeds for 2 major reasons:
1) It offers an almost limitless amount of new units, abilities, and strategies
&
2) Allows players to shape every game with certain "character." I've always thought that a huge part of the appeal of SC is how "Awesome" everything is.. it's not just an RTS, it has great units with amazing designs and personalities. When a battlecruiser or a carrier shows up in the campaign, you really get an "oh shit!" kind of feeling, like a real event is taking place. It's even better when a hero unit shows up. It instantly adds something to the experience. Not only do you have an awesome unit, you have an awesome unit with style. Perhaps the most dissappointing thing to me in normal Melee games is that this is entirely lost. With all these additional units, abilities, and heroes, you can build an army that feels completely unique- and better yet, you can still actually win with it.
Many of the terran factions seem vastly different and totally worth it, offering various strategies just within their own factions. Alpha Squadron, the Colonists(brilliant job, seriously I can't get enough of these), Infested, and Raynor's Raider's all seem very unique and fleshed out. Tosh's Pirates and Nova's Ghosts are quite similar, obviously, but still have a lot of personality due to their heroes and make for good picks if you want to go stealth/nukes. The mercenaries and Umojan lack definitive personalities and character, but make up for it with the merc's special units and the Umojan's various all around tech upgrades.
The two I have questions on are the Moebius foundation and the Kel Morian combine. Neither one seems like they get much to make much of a difference or an impression.
For Moebius, admittedly I'm not a big fan of diamondbacks, and scientist's ability is crazy good... but they just seem like they're one unit away from having a perfect faction. Right now their thing is basically "Slow everything down.. win" but I just wish there was something else in there to make them stand out. Could you incorporate Steadman's unit skin somehow, with something other than heal for an ability? He sure looks like he'd be part of this. They're good, I just never have a desire to play with them and I can't really nail down why. They just aren't as exciting as they could be.
I love the idea of the Kel-Morian combine! They've always been a favorite of mine when it comes to the story. But their whole "great miners" advantage seems lost in this currently. The two upgrades, double scvs and 25% faster gas, are just that: upgrades. So by the time you get them at all it's already mid game at best, and things like the double scvs will only be useful for an expansion or 2 if you're lucky. I dig the tank laser, but I think it would be great to really push these guys as resource hounds. Right now the colonists are better resource gatherers than the mining faction. I'd reccomend adding any combonation of the following:
-The miners from the colonist faction should be added back into the KM. This is a great unit and would really fit in with the Kel-morians. Keep them with the colonists, just add them to the Kel-Morian.
-The automated refineries from the campaign.
-Have the reactor SCVs available from the moment you select KM, rather than an upgrade
-Make MULES either last longer, be cheaper in energy.. something to make them used just a little more.
Basically something to make these guys "the economy" team, right now the advantage only kicks in in a very minimal way and only once you hit the mid to late game. Also, I dunno how practical it would be, but somehow giving them that giant laser from The Dig mission would be awesome. Give it energy cost and a cooldown?
Finally, a couple of questions that have very little to do with balance and more to do with "awesome!"
Are the Helios or Odin available in the game currently, as some sort of secret units? I ask because they're listed in the help guide but as far as I can tell none of the factions offer them. It would be amazing if Helios was added as a hero for the Infested Terrans.... I really want to make my enemies dance in the middle of battle. If that's too much of a joke ability, why not something like "Spread fear" where the very sight of such a massive, scary looking unit screws with the enemy army? It could be a casted energy ability where units in a certain area crap their pants and thus loose accuracy in their decisions, making them have only 50% chance of hitting their targets for a period of time. If not for the Helios this could definitely be added as an abilitiy for one of the other zerg heavy hitters, like the Leviathan or Kerrigan or some other massive/badass unit.
And last but not least, this is just a straight up request.. PLEASE. PLEASE!! Add in the "marine" Raynor from the secret mission as a hero to Raynor's Raiders. I know they've already got the awesome raiders with the hyperion call down.. but it's just the most badass unit in the entire game, IMO, and I would love to charge into battle with that guy. Ditch most of his abilities(like the one the scientists have), but please put him in there somehow! It's not like he would make anything massively unbalanced, he'd just be awesome.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to make this game. It's everything I've wanted out of SC2, and keep up the great work.
My thought:
Ideas
Does protoss have Stone Zealot on their robotic army?????
Okay, so with this mod, you said you try to keep up with the most recent update in the HotS beta. Though the latest update is one that makes some pretty huge changes that honestly, I don't see why they did that (most namely, seeker missile and void ray). Due to just how psycho the update is, will you be incorporating these changes in the melee mod or hold off until they release another patch?
Also, regarding Dark Archons, I agree with FreezingAcidRain that they should not be able to mind control massives. That, or stick a time limit on how long they can mind control (maybe 10 seconds or something).
Alright, I just tried the Infested faction out on the Terrans, and man, they are awesome (lol at swarm hosts). Though I encountered bugs and issues... lots of them.
Aberrations and Infested Terrans spawned by swarm hosts are melee and thus don't get damage upgrades from the weapons upgrades.
Clustering up the things that spawn the Infested Terrans causes them to get stuck when they spawn (not the Swarm Hosts themselves, but the structures they make). The structures themselves should probably be capable of being walked over or something.
Aberrations are huge. TOO huge. Not their model, but their unit radius. They couldn't fit through a space that a Thor could fit through.
If the Infested Infantry get speed bonuses from creep, could you add something that allows you to place creep (considering how slow they are otherwise)? Perhaps the command centers could drop creep tumors, seeing as they don't evolve into the Orbital Commands anymore. Also, I didn't test it, but if that's added, then buildings need to be able to be built on creep.
The upgrade for reapers healing outside of combat is still in the tech lab.
When selecting multiple Aberrations and telling them to use their burrow move, only one of them will actually use it. Additionally, it says there's a 10 second cooldown, but the cooldown doesn't exist. Something else I think would be cool is if the burrow charge does a little damage through the area they pass over, seeing as it's not instant like Blink and would help make it different.
Infested Marines move considerably slower than normal Marines yet have the same stats. Could they perhaps start with 50 health instead of 45 to compensate? Health upgrade still increases by 10 health though.
Potential tech upgrade for Swarm Hosts involving faster energy regeneration? Their energy regeneration normally is quite atrocious compared to other casters, lol. Swarm Hosts also don't have a unit icon when selecting them.
I didn't really get around the factory and starport units, but I'll give them another shot later and see what I find from that.
For rip-field generators, can you make the ability list how much damage it does per second? Also, upgrade idea for it, increased radius (upgrade would be at the forge). By the way, if you place two rip-field generators in one spot, do they stack or no?
@Regretredress: Go Yeah, the hybrid hydra is complete but the textures wont show in game, so they aren't unlocked yet :-/ Gravitom Beam is insteresting but I think it kind of overlaps with fungal and the oracle's time warp so it's not a priority right now. Hardened shields is dangerous, it can become OP too easily, giving it to a unit will only happen if the role proves to be necessary for the brood.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Yeah I think I'll give the Brutalisk the same attack for both air and ground. No the spines don't glow (right now). There isn't a gold Crosair and no gray structures, that would enlarge total file size for no gameplay change. The abilities you suggested sound like some WoL beta scrapped abilities, they are already in my list of possibilities. Lurker speed was 3.375, I dou8bt they were suppsoed to be that fast, and I don't remember them burrowing that fast in BW.
I wont add the SC1 BC, it isn't different enough in game mechanics and not worth the extra file size. I made the Virophage occupy the space it did in the campaign. It is supposed to fill the Plabetary Fortress heavy defense but I know it isn't that strong now. And I'm not adding custom models that aren't supported by official lore, sorry (though there may be arguments in favor of the Vindicator).
@DEFILERRULEZ: Go Yes, Shelak uses them in place of Colossi. But they don't feel like a protoss-ish unit, I'd rather remove it.
@Vultorask: Go At first I tried to keep up with beta, but it keeps changing too fast, and I fear I may get an unwanted Blizz email if I make them exactly like the beta, so I wont do it; I wont be making all the changes in the beta, specially because the mod is WoL-based right now, with the addition of some HoTS units. When it becomes HoTS-based it will have all HoTS changes.
Yeah Mind Control needs a duration, but it will be able to target massive, no need to make it less useful than NP.
yes yes infested melee doesn't get upgraded... this must be the most reported bug ever lol. All bugs added to the list, thanks.
Rip-Fields don't stack, either you are within a rip-field or you aren't, their role is to deny shield and life regen to enemy units inside it, they deal minimal damage, but I'll add it to the tool tip.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go I didn't know about this detail. If units are permanently controlled I think it makes sense they will be attacked by their previous allies, but if I give it a duration I'll work to fix that.
I don't know how big it can get, I just decided I had to keep file size in mind as everytime I update it players are forced to re-download the map files, the main mod file, and the assets mods if they were changed, and no players wants to wait forever before he can play a map. It odes not effect game performance as far as I know. But anyway I set a rule for it: Custom models will only be added if they are supported by lore and they will bring some new mechanics to the table. Of course things like Dark Templar-colored buildings are interesting even if they don't come with new mechanics and I may add them, but I don't want to add the Tyrant or the Hulk. The only units that aren't based on lore are the ones that use in-game models such as the Laserdrill Tank, Taurens, Nomads, Blimps and others that come from the campaign files.
Ohhh and the Left 2 Die units, they are a special case because I wanted to make a "homage" to that mod or whatever you may call it.
I know you could argue the Hybrid Hydra isn't supported by lore, so maybe I should wait for HoTS to see some new hybrids?
@SoulFilcher: Go
This is just my opinion: Don't add anything new to the mod until HotS comes out; just work on bug fixes and balance. This would be the "WoL" version of the mod. When HotS comes out, you could begin work for a version that would be balanced with it.
Assuming they don't revert most of the last HotS balance patch, balance in HotS will be very different than balance in WoL.
@morgoth780: Go HoTS will be released in March. I don't think it's the best idea to stick to bug fixes until then. I wont keep a "WoL version" after HoTS release, I feel there's no point. I agree balance will be very different between the 2, but the mod is about variety and I won't keep a WoL version which has no advange over a HoTS version.
I'm updating it to the HoTS beta arcade for the ones that might be interested, but since Blizzard took away my freedom to define my mod's dependencies I'm unable to add anything from the beta to it.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Well that's unfortunate.
I agree it would be kinda boring to work on bug fixes. Do you think you'll add the the new abilities (like thor AA attack mode) as alternatives to standard WoL research?
i know terran has more factions than the rest of the protoss and zerg factions, but i feel this faction should be included anyways. its like not having crash and spyro in ps3 all stars, it doen't fell right.
UED Faction
Hurricane
Titan
Valkyries
Medics
When UED faction is selected, all model textures should change from black\greyish to a more cleaner/whitish colour, white being the theme of the UED for units and buildings.
infested Terran Blance
For final polishes…
In the arcade rather than having the 4 images of 9 different maps maybe show previews of in-game interface of how selecting factions/units/upgrades work and show off the new units(older units, custom models, faction textures). I don’t think size is too much of a deal if it doesn’t affect game performance after you download it “once”. Good maps are worth the wait. Sc1 sounds that should be implemented, in order of importance: Valerie, dark archon, Arbiter, Reaver, Dragoon (maybe), defiler (maybe), and scourge (right now they have no audio). Also custom models could use sc1 audio, to give that unit its own uniqueness. Would you ever consider recycling the custom war hound and battle hellion as a different unit into this mod or into hots? The battle hellion flamethrower looks more like a cyborg with gun/cannon mounted on top.
@morgoth780: Go Adding HoTS mechanics is not priority right now, specially the ones that are still bound to change, or even be reverted. I know I added some of the units/changes before but only because we were long way from HoTS release back then, and I was working on the HoTS custom, so I could simply copy everything to SC Expanded. Now everything is different in HoTS and I don't feel like it's worth changing everything with every beta patch, I don't even have free time for that.
@FreezingAcidRain: Go Ohhh the UED, people can't let them go :-) I slided through all the requests and I'll do it again. UED isn't a considerable faction (if it is at all) in the Koprulu Sector after the end of the Brood War. If HoTS or LoTV changes that I'll be more than willing to work on them, so far they're not worth the trouble.
The Infested Cocoon mechanics will have to be changed anyway. So sad because I alwaysd wanted to use those cocoons somehow. Your suggestion was added to the list.
I can add those screenshots to the How To Play section. I'm willing to add SC1 sounds, when converted to mp3 or ogg file format they are really small, and each unit didn't have many sounds anyway. Of course I'll use the Warhound if it doesn't find a use in HoTS melee or campaign, but the Hellbat (current name for the battle hellion) will still be the Hellbat, I won't change that. And unfortunately the Hellbat kills both the Firebat and the Vulture as unit options as it is right now, I'm not sure whats is going to happen with Terran options.
I thought firebats owned hell bats beacuse firebats have heavy amour (and have stim) and hell bats have light amour? vultures do longer range than hell bats and do solid 25 light damage and have spider mines. terran options can remain the same
@FreezingAcidRain: Go The issue isn't based on stats only. Sure the Firebat may be better than the Hellbat, and it even comes earlier in the tech tree, but anyway the two are too similar. Picking Firebats and Hellinos as options will make you have overlaping units in your army. The Hellbat has more life and more DPS with the Hellion blue flame upgrade, but the Firebat can stim so it's more mobile and can attack faster. But in the end the 2 are made to attack groups of light units.
The Vulture is another problem entirely. I'm not sure how Hellion vs Vulture stands as an option in WoL, but in HoTS the Hellion is geting a very good buff through this morph and all players will be able to use Widow Mines, kind of making Spider Mines pointless or at least shadowed by the new unit.
HoTS balance is coming to change a lot of other things if you stop to think about it. Medivacs got an insane buff, how does it affect the other transports and army build options?
EDIT: I just published Howling Peak to the beta server. HoTS units included for testing purposes. I hope I get some feedback on this one so I can prepare for the real porting when the game is released.
Stank don't get upgrade,hydralisks can morph into lurkers Yeeaaah!!!!
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Curse PremiumAre Helinos like Dominos at all? :3
Don't know if it helps at all but I always liked the idea of Vultures (or a varient) being cliff jumpers as a backup to Reapers. Again, being this is a 'I think it'd be cool' idea it's probably not at all balanced :)
Before I found SC Expanded, I had the idea of Terrans being able to pick at the beginning of the match two options, either Marauder/Hellion or Firebat/Vulture.
This idea might fix the problems, I also once concepted something similar the the Hellbat for the Vulture, turning it into a Marauder of sorts but with heavier plating and stronger grenades.
Ragnarock don't get upgrades,huge medical beam laser bug that don't die and so u can see a tons of lasers that folow units healed,the same bug of my lef2die map modified,i don't know if is a bug of the map or is a bug of my sc2
Hey! Just want to say again, this is absolutely amazing. I was getting really sick of every SC2 match being the same thing, and purposely doing rediculous builds just to try and spice things up. But after finding this map the possibilities are endless. Forgive me this will probably be a long post, but I haven't been this excited about SC in a long, long time.
I have yet to play around with Zerg or Protoss much, partially because they seem a little less fleshed out, which is expected since you have a lot less to work with. I'm sure that as HotS and LotV come out, you'll get plenty of new units, buildings, and ideas to work with.
But man, I've spent the last few days constantly messing about with the terran factions, and all I can say is wow.
I will say up front that I'm just a silver league player normally, so some of the advantages of certain upgrades or units may be lost on me.
However I have a few commets/questions/possible suggestions!!
I think this mod succeeds for 2 major reasons:
1) It offers an almost limitless amount of new units, abilities, and strategies
&
2) Allows players to shape every game with certain "character." I've always thought that a huge part of the appeal of SC is how "Awesome" everything is.. it's not just an RTS, it has great units with amazing designs and personalities. When a battlecruiser or a carrier shows up in the campaign, you really get an "oh shit!" kind of feeling, like a real event is taking place. It's even better when a hero unit shows up. It instantly adds something to the experience. Not only do you have an awesome unit, you have an awesome unit with style. Perhaps the most dissappointing thing to me in normal Melee games is that this is entirely lost. With all these additional units, abilities, and heroes, you can build an army that feels completely unique- and better yet, you can still actually win with it.
Many of the terran factions seem vastly different and totally worth it, offering various strategies just within their own factions. Alpha Squadron, the Colonists(brilliant job, seriously I can't get enough of these), Infested, and Raynor's Raider's all seem very unique and fleshed out. Tosh's Pirates and Nova's Ghosts are quite similar, obviously, but still have a lot of personality due to their heroes and make for good picks if you want to go stealth/nukes. The mercenaries and Umojan lack definitive personalities and character, but make up for it with the merc's special units and the Umojan's various all around tech upgrades.
The two I have questions on are the Moebius foundation and the Kel Morian combine. Neither one seems like they get much to make much of a difference or an impression.
For Moebius, admittedly I'm not a big fan of diamondbacks, and scientist's ability is crazy good... but they just seem like they're one unit away from having a perfect faction. Right now their thing is basically "Slow everything down.. win" but I just wish there was something else in there to make them stand out. Could you incorporate Steadman's unit skin somehow, with something other than heal for an ability? He sure looks like he'd be part of this. They're good, I just never have a desire to play with them and I can't really nail down why. They just aren't as exciting as they could be.
I love the idea of the Kel-Morian combine! They've always been a favorite of mine when it comes to the story. But their whole "great miners" advantage seems lost in this currently. The two upgrades, double scvs and 25% faster gas, are just that: upgrades. So by the time you get them at all it's already mid game at best, and things like the double scvs will only be useful for an expansion or 2 if you're lucky. I dig the tank laser, but I think it would be great to really push these guys as resource hounds. Right now the colonists are better resource gatherers than the mining faction. I'd reccomend adding any combonation of the following:
-The miners from the colonist faction should be added back into the KM. This is a great unit and would really fit in with the Kel-morians. Keep them with the colonists, just add them to the Kel-Morian.
-The automated refineries from the campaign.
-Have the reactor SCVs available from the moment you select KM, rather than an upgrade
-Make MULES either last longer, be cheaper in energy.. something to make them used just a little more.
Basically something to make these guys "the economy" team, right now the advantage only kicks in in a very minimal way and only once you hit the mid to late game. Also, I dunno how practical it would be, but somehow giving them that giant laser from The Dig mission would be awesome. Give it energy cost and a cooldown?
Finally, a couple of questions that have very little to do with balance and more to do with "awesome!"
Are the Helios or Odin available in the game currently, as some sort of secret units? I ask because they're listed in the help guide but as far as I can tell none of the factions offer them. It would be amazing if Helios was added as a hero for the Infested Terrans.... I really want to make my enemies dance in the middle of battle. If that's too much of a joke ability, why not something like "Spread fear" where the very sight of such a massive, scary looking unit screws with the enemy army? It could be a casted energy ability where units in a certain area crap their pants and thus loose accuracy in their decisions, making them have only 50% chance of hitting their targets for a period of time. If not for the Helios this could definitely be added as an abilitiy for one of the other zerg heavy hitters, like the Leviathan or Kerrigan or some other massive/badass unit.
And last but not least, this is just a straight up request.. PLEASE. PLEASE!! Add in the "marine" Raynor from the secret mission as a hero to Raynor's Raiders. I know they've already got the awesome raiders with the hyperion call down.. but it's just the most badass unit in the entire game, IMO, and I would love to charge into battle with that guy. Ditch most of his abilities(like the one the scientists have), but please put him in there somehow! It's not like he would make anything massively unbalanced, he'd just be awesome.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to make this game. It's everything I've wanted out of SC2, and keep up the great work.