The Hunterling seems to be the best replacement for the Reaper, since Abberation seems to be a replacement for the Marauder and the Swarm Host for the Ghost.
They do kinda need their own specialist unit building though, to replace the Ghost Academy.
To be a bit honest, I can see the Shock-trooper Marine (Rocket pods on shoulder) as a Umojan hero, as well as the Spotter being a unit for the Leviathan brood.
@ARMofORION: Go They dont have to be exact replacement for the terran roles, but its a good guide to give infested varied strategy options. I agree they need a structure to replace the Academy. Well, maybe the Hunterling would fit the role, but just as the Swarm Host it looks like a full zerg and not a result ofo infestation.
The Spotter may become tiamat's "mercenary" version of the Overseer. And the Rocket Marine was requested by me for another map I'm working on.
@SoulFilcher: Brainstormed a bit more, and I have some more ideas.
Karass: In a quick review over the units, I noticed that he was unused.....Shelak tribe could be a good place to put him, in my opinion.
Odin: Attach to Alpha? He will require nerfing, and you can possibly use Warfield as portrait.
Leviathan tribe: Pretty bare, got an idea for drop pod and a few others.
Zerg Droppod: In a bit of a review of the books I have, I noticed that the brood Kukuklan traveled to Bhekar Ro from Char using a sort of manta ray. I think this could explain that a bit.
Enhanced Air Carapace/Weapons: Leviathan brood could get this.
Tal'darim: Perhaps modify the Dark Shrine/Stalkers/Void rays with the new High models? That, or the Zealot slasher.
@ARMofORION: Go I don't know why I didn't give Karass to one of the tribes. I guess I was just undecided. But since the Preservers hold the Plasma Surge ability right now (and it's OP) maybe Karass should go to Shelak. And he was searching for Xel'Naga prophecies so Shelak is a good option. But the tribe focused on High Templars in Akilae.
Odin: I'd rather not include the Odin right now, because HoTS may change how Thors work. And since Warfield's Battlecruiser appears on Char, I included him as a Battlecruiser hero.
Leviathan: I know they need more stuff. Kukulkan would be a good name too, but there was a Leviathan brood back in SC1, although never heard of you could see its name as one of the multiplayer names for Zerg. The Manta Ray thing is controversial, some may say they were Leviathans, but the unit that resembles the description is the Brood Lord. As I said before I'd like to include the drop-pod, but I need to think it through so the mechanics as easy to understand and can be balanced. For Protoss and Terran a single tribe/faction holds all enhanced upgrades, I dont know if I'll do the same for Zerg.
Tal'Darim: To me there's no such thing as "high" stalkers or dak shrines, they are nerazim creations. On the other hand Void Ray's lore says they were created by the 2 technologies together, so I accept keeping VRs for TalDarim. They wont have access to nerazim units, but then I need to plan the replacements.
@SoulFilcher: Akilae is the tribe centered on Shakuras, and the leadership of the Protoss. They mostly are the central fighting force of the Khala. I, personally, would not put him in there.
Odin: MMkay.
Leviathan: The Behemoth was how the Zerg became able to go into space, so it would make sense that they can deploy from it, but it should really just be limited to the more space-faring broods, in my opinion.
Tosh's Pirates: Question. What influenced the removal of any unit capable of healing for this faction?
Infested: If I remember, there was a model for an Infested Battlecruiser somewhere, but I can't remember where.
@ARMofORION: Go I got complaints about the lack of healing units before. But I didn't know what to do about it. I didnt want to give medics to yet one more faction. Maybe the Spec Ops Dropship shouldn't replace the Medivac, so Tosh's Pirates would have access to both? Nova Squadron has the same problem.
Perhaps combine the units? Personally, I'd just do add the Medic.
Edit: A friend of mine has a few complaints, mostly regarding the Hybrids. He says they are "Squishier than an Ultralisk trying to kill two bunkers full of marauders, and....."
Well, to sum up the rest of the rambling, he says they need to be a bit stronger, remarking that they are pretty weak now.
I think reavers should be and option to collossi not immortal , Maybe you should give dark Protoss a radar building with the model xelnagarelic.m3 or xelnagartifact.m3. (forget which) it is a tower that looks like the alpha watchtower. The radar "blip" model could be stalkericon.m3
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
Quote from nolanstar:
I think reavers should be an option to colossi, not Immortal. Maybe you should give Dark Protoss a radar building with the model xel'naga relic or xel'naga artifact. (forget which) It is a tower that looks like the alpha watchtower. The radar "blip" model could be stalkericon
----
Sorry, had to correct it a little bit to understand. You're saying the Reaver should replace the Colossi as a Siege unit?
Actually, I agree with this question. Why not replace the Colossi with reavers, instead of Immortals being replaced?
As for the second thing, I assume you are referring to the now replaced Xel'naga Watch Towers as a radar structure for the Dark Protoss?
Good question. Soul, have you thought about that before?
@ARMofORION: Go Zerg Hybrids too weak. On my list for "further investigation"
@nolanstar: GoPeople told me that before, but the question is: can Reavers be a good option to colossi when they are waaaaaaay less mobile and have less life? Think about it, Reavers die so easily to Immortals and can be easily outmanouvered (is that word correct?) by colossi. I dont know.
Watchtower: never thought about that, but there are other tribes more in ned for new stuff than the dark protoss. I have to think about it. Good idea but maybe I'd give it a wide vision range instead of radar, or something else so it works different from a Sensor Tower.
Yes, but the Reavers and the Colossi both serve the same role, which is the role of the siege unit. It would make more sense as if you got the option to choose between the range-y (?) colossi or the high-powered reaver as a siege unit, and the Immortal for the counter against Armored units.
Hybrids: He spoke about both of the hybrids, not just the zerg one.
Edit: Actually, there is a solution to the mobility problem the Reavers have. They are called Warp Prisms.
Hybrid Destroyer: Although it has the most health among the slaves (400 points), it is stumped by the Colossus in damage and mobility.
Possible ideas: Replace it's Shockwave with the Campaign Destroyer's Void Blast, and possibly increase the speed a bit.
Up the damage of the shock, and add blink.
Hybrid Reaver: Seems pretty good, but compared to it's cousin within the Protoss camp, it is powerful. However, compared to the Ultralisk, it is MUCH better.
Ideas: I think that it needs to be a bit closer in health to the Brutalisk.
That, or consume DNA could have a bit of life-steal.
Thats just my two cents.
Edit: What was the Civilians' Loot Dead Body ability supposed to do?
@ARMofORION: Go I'll keep those ideas in mind. Right now I increased the Zerg Hybrid regeneration to 1 and life to 800. Consume DNA was supposed to steal life, doesn't it do it?
Hybrid Destroyer: Shields increased to 350. It shouldnt comepte with Colossi in mobility anyway. It used to have blink too, but some players felt it was too difficult to deal with a unit with 4 abilities to make it useful enough, so I changed it to be more a tank unit, like an OP archon.
Loot: This ability gives the unit a small boost based on the race looted (dead unit as a target), for protoss it gets 5 shields, for zerg it gets some life regen and for terran I belive it gets bonus armor or life. It's impossible to use manually, that's why I made it an autocast ability.
Hybrid Reaver (Zerg Hybrid): No, Consume DNA doesn't life-steal, which is annoying.
Hybrid Destroyer (Toss Hybrid): Yeah, that does make sense. Wait, they used to have four abilities?
Loot: Well, either way, it still doesn't work. Even autocasted, they do not get a boost at all, even when one Civilian manages to kill an enemy (At least, it doesn't for me.)
@ARMofORION: Go Then I'll have to work on Consume DNA.
Yeah, they had blink and gravitom beam I guess.
Each dead unit can only be targeted by one civilian. I think the problem may be that the ability isn't transient so they cant use it while attacking, and as units stay dead for a real short time before being removed the chance of using it is very rare. I guess I'll just make it transient.
Ok, had to pester him a bit for it, but I found out what my friend suggests for the Protoss Hybrid.
He askes (Optional) for a slight increase in shields regen, and the Hybrid Armor's rating to be changed, moving that one point in armor over to his shields armor rating.
Protoss:
Taldarien should have the slasher to replace the dt, and dragoons should be forced on them, they shoild also have a High templar speed upgrade (changes the model to ht with zealot anims) also one dt tribe should replace ht with acolyte, Last one tribe should have observatory and requir it for obseber but to make it worth it it should have good upgrades (ie detection radius increase)
Terran:
scientest needs more abilities, 2 in mind are gravity bomb and emp burst,the effectsfor both are in the editor, gravity bomb makes a unit float in the air for a bit(should cost 50-75 energy), and emp burst stuns all mechanical units and structures in an area(should cost 125 energy)they also need a weapon (idea) Plasma Grenade: range: 4.5, speed: 1.5 damage 0(7+10 vs light to adjacent units) lorewise umojans use shadowguards, not ghosts, so give them shadowguards, use the model ghostecho.m3 and the same weapon and stats but the abilities: slash:deals 200 damage to singele target(meele) cloak, nuke , and distort(slows target attack speed by 50% for 5 seconds)also since raynors raidors cannot afford hight tech stuff like minotar battlecruisers change the bc model for them to battlecruiseryamato.m3 also the infested need their viking to look infested so use the model corruptionviking.m3 as their infestation, they also should have hunterling
Zerg: Garm should mave siphon life as a infestor ability, garm,surtur and 1 more should have swarmlings(not hots version but wol(in wol they are broodlings with no time life) 4 from 1 larva for 100 min and require evo chamber. defiler needs a better model. one brood should have cerebrate,provides 15 supply and has 2 spells it can use anywhere you have sight : psi burst=45 damage, mind chamber= adds 8 supply to target overlord. 1 brood should have creep colonys to replace creep tumors, and to replace the queen ability that spawns them, toxic creep: targets a patch of creep (3x3) and makes it so all enemy units that walk over it take 1 dps(models for this in the editor) last; one brood should have thrikodias charger to replace ultralisk, less life, cheaper, more damage(no splash) and a charge ability to only use against structures(replace ultras anti building attack)
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@ARMofORION: Go I've made some changes, let's see. I havent been working on it these last days so I'm just taking notes right now.
@nolanstar: Go Tal'Darim is pretty much unknown, so its hard to plan their units. Personally I don't like the Slasher's weapon though the rest of the model is cool. I know I will enforce Dragoons for Tal'Darim and all khalai tribes, my thought is to enforce more units, like Phoenixes to khalai and Corsairs for Nerazim. And maybe Scouts for khalai and Void Rays for nerazim, but I have to think a lot about that because it caused strong changes to gameplay and balance. No bonus for HTs, Akilae is the one with the best templars, Tal'Darim is a weird mix of khalai units with dark abilities.
Terran: Yeah Scientist need more abilities, but Gravity Bomb is simply Gravitom Beam with a different name, so no. Same goes for EMP. I didn't know about Shadowguards, I'll try to learn more about them, thanks. I wont use those low-quality models like battlecruiseryamato or battlecruiserhurricane. The Hunterling may be added to Infested but I'm not sure.
Zerg: Siphon Life is very unbalanced, unless it can only steal life from friendly units like the new Viper ability. No, no Swarmlings, I'm already tired of Broodlings everywhere. Defiler uses GnaReffotsirk's model, and as far as I know is the only one avaiable (It was a resized Brutalisk before). No Cerebrates, Kerrigan eliminated all of them. Although I created some units for Terran (using units already in the editor) I don't like the idea of adding custom created units for zerg and protoss, specially if they are custom models as well. And it causes the total filesize to grow quickly, because these guys are producing new models like crazy.
The slasher's weapon reminds me of Monster Hunter.
Shadowguard are expert intelligence gatherers, with telepathic abilities and a psiweave, which can change their appearance to whomever they choose. They can read and influence minds, and don't suffer from Neural Inhibitors like normal ghosts do.
The Hunterling seems to be the best replacement for the Reaper, since Abberation seems to be a replacement for the Marauder and the Swarm Host for the Ghost.
They do kinda need their own specialist unit building though, to replace the Ghost Academy.
To be a bit honest, I can see the Shock-trooper Marine (Rocket pods on shoulder) as a Umojan hero, as well as the Spotter being a unit for the Leviathan brood.
@ARMofORION: Go They dont have to be exact replacement for the terran roles, but its a good guide to give infested varied strategy options. I agree they need a structure to replace the Academy. Well, maybe the Hunterling would fit the role, but just as the Swarm Host it looks like a full zerg and not a result ofo infestation.
The Spotter may become tiamat's "mercenary" version of the Overseer. And the Rocket Marine was requested by me for another map I'm working on.
@SoulFilcher: Brainstormed a bit more, and I have some more ideas.
Karass: In a quick review over the units, I noticed that he was unused.....Shelak tribe could be a good place to put him, in my opinion.
Odin: Attach to Alpha? He will require nerfing, and you can possibly use Warfield as portrait.
Leviathan tribe: Pretty bare, got an idea for drop pod and a few others.
Zerg Droppod: In a bit of a review of the books I have, I noticed that the brood Kukuklan traveled to Bhekar Ro from Char using a sort of manta ray. I think this could explain that a bit.
Enhanced Air Carapace/Weapons: Leviathan brood could get this.
Tal'darim: Perhaps modify the Dark Shrine/Stalkers/Void rays with the new High models? That, or the Zealot slasher.
@ARMofORION: Go I don't know why I didn't give Karass to one of the tribes. I guess I was just undecided. But since the Preservers hold the Plasma Surge ability right now (and it's OP) maybe Karass should go to Shelak. And he was searching for Xel'Naga prophecies so Shelak is a good option. But the tribe focused on High Templars in Akilae.
Odin: I'd rather not include the Odin right now, because HoTS may change how Thors work. And since Warfield's Battlecruiser appears on Char, I included him as a Battlecruiser hero.
Leviathan: I know they need more stuff. Kukulkan would be a good name too, but there was a Leviathan brood back in SC1, although never heard of you could see its name as one of the multiplayer names for Zerg. The Manta Ray thing is controversial, some may say they were Leviathans, but the unit that resembles the description is the Brood Lord. As I said before I'd like to include the drop-pod, but I need to think it through so the mechanics as easy to understand and can be balanced. For Protoss and Terran a single tribe/faction holds all enhanced upgrades, I dont know if I'll do the same for Zerg.
Tal'Darim: To me there's no such thing as "high" stalkers or dak shrines, they are nerazim creations. On the other hand Void Ray's lore says they were created by the 2 technologies together, so I accept keeping VRs for TalDarim. They wont have access to nerazim units, but then I need to plan the replacements.
@SoulFilcher: Akilae is the tribe centered on Shakuras, and the leadership of the Protoss. They mostly are the central fighting force of the Khala. I, personally, would not put him in there.
Odin: MMkay.
Leviathan: The Behemoth was how the Zerg became able to go into space, so it would make sense that they can deploy from it, but it should really just be limited to the more space-faring broods, in my opinion.
Tosh's Pirates: Question. What influenced the removal of any unit capable of healing for this faction?
Infested: If I remember, there was a model for an Infested Battlecruiser somewhere, but I can't remember where.
@ARMofORION: Go I got complaints about the lack of healing units before. But I didn't know what to do about it. I didnt want to give medics to yet one more faction. Maybe the Spec Ops Dropship shouldn't replace the Medivac, so Tosh's Pirates would have access to both? Nova Squadron has the same problem.
@SoulFilcher:
Perhaps combine the units? Personally, I'd just do add the Medic.
Edit: A friend of mine has a few complaints, mostly regarding the Hybrids. He says they are "Squishier than an Ultralisk trying to kill two bunkers full of marauders, and....."
Well, to sum up the rest of the rambling, he says they need to be a bit stronger, remarking that they are pretty weak now.
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Curse PremiumI think reavers should be and option to collossi not immortal , Maybe you should give dark Protoss a radar building with the model xelnagarelic.m3 or xelnagartifact.m3. (forget which) it is a tower that looks like the alpha watchtower. The radar "blip" model could be stalkericon.m3
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
Quote from nolanstar:
I think reavers should be an option to colossi, not Immortal. Maybe you should give Dark Protoss a radar building with the model xel'naga relic or xel'naga artifact. (forget which) It is a tower that looks like the alpha watchtower. The radar "blip" model could be stalkericon
----
Sorry, had to correct it a little bit to understand. You're saying the Reaver should replace the Colossi as a Siege unit?
Actually, I agree with this question. Why not replace the Colossi with reavers, instead of Immortals being replaced?
As for the second thing, I assume you are referring to the now replaced Xel'naga Watch Towers as a radar structure for the Dark Protoss?
Good question. Soul, have you thought about that before?
@ARMofORION: Go Zerg Hybrids too weak. On my list for "further investigation"
@nolanstar: GoPeople told me that before, but the question is: can Reavers be a good option to colossi when they are waaaaaaay less mobile and have less life? Think about it, Reavers die so easily to Immortals and can be easily outmanouvered (is that word correct?) by colossi. I dont know.
Watchtower: never thought about that, but there are other tribes more in ned for new stuff than the dark protoss. I have to think about it. Good idea but maybe I'd give it a wide vision range instead of radar, or something else so it works different from a Sensor Tower.
@SoulFilcher:
Yes, but the Reavers and the Colossi both serve the same role, which is the role of the siege unit. It would make more sense as if you got the option to choose between the range-y (?) colossi or the high-powered reaver as a siege unit, and the Immortal for the counter against Armored units.
Hybrids: He spoke about both of the hybrids, not just the zerg one.
Edit: Actually, there is a solution to the mobility problem the Reavers have. They are called Warp Prisms.
@ARMofORION: Go I understand your point, but I believe the Reaver would have to be rebalanced. Ohh ok, I'll check the protoss hybrid too.
@SoulFilcher: Ok, heres my bit on the Hybrids.
Hybrid Destroyer: Although it has the most health among the slaves (400 points), it is stumped by the Colossus in damage and mobility.
Possible ideas: Replace it's Shockwave with the Campaign Destroyer's Void Blast, and possibly increase the speed a bit.
Up the damage of the shock, and add blink.
Hybrid Reaver: Seems pretty good, but compared to it's cousin within the Protoss camp, it is powerful. However, compared to the Ultralisk, it is MUCH better.
Ideas: I think that it needs to be a bit closer in health to the Brutalisk.
That, or consume DNA could have a bit of life-steal.
Thats just my two cents.
Edit: What was the Civilians' Loot Dead Body ability supposed to do?
@ARMofORION: Go I'll keep those ideas in mind. Right now I increased the Zerg Hybrid regeneration to 1 and life to 800. Consume DNA was supposed to steal life, doesn't it do it?
Hybrid Destroyer: Shields increased to 350. It shouldnt comepte with Colossi in mobility anyway. It used to have blink too, but some players felt it was too difficult to deal with a unit with 4 abilities to make it useful enough, so I changed it to be more a tank unit, like an OP archon.
Loot: This ability gives the unit a small boost based on the race looted (dead unit as a target), for protoss it gets 5 shields, for zerg it gets some life regen and for terran I belive it gets bonus armor or life. It's impossible to use manually, that's why I made it an autocast ability.
@SoulFilcher:
Hybrid Reaver (Zerg Hybrid): No, Consume DNA doesn't life-steal, which is annoying.
Hybrid Destroyer (Toss Hybrid): Yeah, that does make sense. Wait, they used to have four abilities?
Loot: Well, either way, it still doesn't work. Even autocasted, they do not get a boost at all, even when one Civilian manages to kill an enemy (At least, it doesn't for me.)
@ARMofORION: Go Then I'll have to work on Consume DNA.
Yeah, they had blink and gravitom beam I guess.
Each dead unit can only be targeted by one civilian. I think the problem may be that the ability isn't transient so they cant use it while attacking, and as units stay dead for a real short time before being removed the chance of using it is very rare. I guess I'll just make it transient.
@SoulFilcher:
Ok, had to pester him a bit for it, but I found out what my friend suggests for the Protoss Hybrid.
He askes (Optional) for a slight increase in shields regen, and the Hybrid Armor's rating to be changed, moving that one point in armor over to his shields armor rating.
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Curse PremiumProtoss: Taldarien should have the slasher to replace the dt, and dragoons should be forced on them, they shoild also have a High templar speed upgrade (changes the model to ht with zealot anims) also one dt tribe should replace ht with acolyte, Last one tribe should have observatory and requir it for obseber but to make it worth it it should have good upgrades (ie detection radius increase)
Terran: scientest needs more abilities, 2 in mind are gravity bomb and emp burst,the effectsfor both are in the editor, gravity bomb makes a unit float in the air for a bit(should cost 50-75 energy), and emp burst stuns all mechanical units and structures in an area(should cost 125 energy)they also need a weapon (idea) Plasma Grenade: range: 4.5, speed: 1.5 damage 0(7+10 vs light to adjacent units) lorewise umojans use shadowguards, not ghosts, so give them shadowguards, use the model ghostecho.m3 and the same weapon and stats but the abilities: slash:deals 200 damage to singele target(meele) cloak, nuke , and distort(slows target attack speed by 50% for 5 seconds)also since raynors raidors cannot afford hight tech stuff like minotar battlecruisers change the bc model for them to battlecruiseryamato.m3 also the infested need their viking to look infested so use the model corruptionviking.m3 as their infestation, they also should have hunterling
Zerg: Garm should mave siphon life as a infestor ability, garm,surtur and 1 more should have swarmlings(not hots version but wol(in wol they are broodlings with no time life) 4 from 1 larva for 100 min and require evo chamber. defiler needs a better model. one brood should have cerebrate,provides 15 supply and has 2 spells it can use anywhere you have sight : psi burst=45 damage, mind chamber= adds 8 supply to target overlord. 1 brood should have creep colonys to replace creep tumors, and to replace the queen ability that spawns them, toxic creep: targets a patch of creep (3x3) and makes it so all enemy units that walk over it take 1 dps(models for this in the editor) last; one brood should have thrikodias charger to replace ultralisk, less life, cheaper, more damage(no splash) and a charge ability to only use against structures(replace ultras anti building attack)
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@ARMofORION: Go I've made some changes, let's see. I havent been working on it these last days so I'm just taking notes right now.
@nolanstar: Go Tal'Darim is pretty much unknown, so its hard to plan their units. Personally I don't like the Slasher's weapon though the rest of the model is cool. I know I will enforce Dragoons for Tal'Darim and all khalai tribes, my thought is to enforce more units, like Phoenixes to khalai and Corsairs for Nerazim. And maybe Scouts for khalai and Void Rays for nerazim, but I have to think a lot about that because it caused strong changes to gameplay and balance. No bonus for HTs, Akilae is the one with the best templars, Tal'Darim is a weird mix of khalai units with dark abilities.
Terran: Yeah Scientist need more abilities, but Gravity Bomb is simply Gravitom Beam with a different name, so no. Same goes for EMP. I didn't know about Shadowguards, I'll try to learn more about them, thanks. I wont use those low-quality models like battlecruiseryamato or battlecruiserhurricane. The Hunterling may be added to Infested but I'm not sure.
Zerg: Siphon Life is very unbalanced, unless it can only steal life from friendly units like the new Viper ability. No, no Swarmlings, I'm already tired of Broodlings everywhere. Defiler uses GnaReffotsirk's model, and as far as I know is the only one avaiable (It was a resized Brutalisk before). No Cerebrates, Kerrigan eliminated all of them. Although I created some units for Terran (using units already in the editor) I don't like the idea of adding custom created units for zerg and protoss, specially if they are custom models as well. And it causes the total filesize to grow quickly, because these guys are producing new models like crazy.
The slasher's weapon reminds me of Monster Hunter.
Shadowguard are expert intelligence gatherers, with telepathic abilities and a psiweave, which can change their appearance to whomever they choose. They can read and influence minds, and don't suffer from Neural Inhibitors like normal ghosts do.