heeey its not that bad :-D
i fixed most of them, now i fix the 24th wave. from your playing exoerience, what can you tell me about the new waves? are they too challening? was it possible to make a lot of points? which wave was too easy / too hard?
It was fun, I played Vortex/Heal/Cooldown HT with 2 void prison dt's. Dts permanently locked bosses and killed most of enemies with their ultimate, I vortexed everything.. strangely enough we had problems with air level, but that's probably cause of lack of coordination between us. One thing that disturbed me was that we didn't get much experience. It would be more profitable for us to replay lvl1-20 to max out rather than try to beat harder levels..
Edit: By the way, someone is waiting for you at "TSL" at sc2.
Two times(we got swarmed by mutas/broodlings and overwhelmed). The only time when we got past it was when I cheated and made an army. But i think the difficulty should not be lowered. It's supposed to be hard.
hm... the point system is: (max life + shield of the killed unit) * all Factor / 10 at the first waves and /15 at the hard waves, because there is lot more "life" to earn in these waves, but on the other hand if you die that easy at these waves... hm i will do /10 too. so more points to earn :)
I second that. And also maybe post here changes you've made.. cause it's discouraging to post bugs/issues that may have already been fixed. (did you fix dual mothership spawn & did you give last boss heroic attribute?)
hey, yeah i added a changelog. i´m not sure if i fixed the double mothership spawn, because like the double tyrant spawn there is no double trigger and i couldnt find an explanation. i only deleted an unnessecary waiting time at the end of the trigger before, don´t know if this influenced that bug. but when i played the map , only 1 mothership spawned. when was the last time you saw a double spawn? did the double spawn appeare whenever you play or only sometimes?
Yes, the last boss is heroic :)
and made so many changes yesterday that they can´t fit in the loading screen:
- Removed minimum range for space daemon attack
- Lemming/Cockroach award was mixed up
- Button text of the Healing Tower heal is changed
- Void Prison disturbs the game too much and is replaced by shadow grenade (Armor Bonus for all DTs within the shadow, and damage malus for ALL non DT units, more detailed: melee 25 %, range 50%)
- Archons have a shield armor of 3
- Gatling cannon got less armor reduction, so it deals more damage to targets with any armor value than before
- Mothership is a structure, so its not affected by the DTs shockwave
- Teleportation armor and Merc Calldown (assault marine) grant more armor, so they a good alternatives to heavy armor and Medics armor provides the Med Drone ability, which is simply a healing wave and not channeled like the ability before
- Diamondbacks won´t run away when they are dominated
- In the Tyrant wave will periodically spawn an ultralisk and in the Protoss Hybrid wave 4 young Tyrants (if it became too difficult, PLZ TELL ME)
an easy solution for double trigger proccs:
global var: motherspawn = false <bool>
add a condition: motherspawned = false
first action: set motherspawn = true
sometimes the server is to slow and you have multiple events even if it should be possible. had the same vor me and the you killed 1000 units trigger. it fired multiple times even if the condition said kills == 1000. this happend when multiple units died at the same time, like of a nuke
aah ok thx... but why always the same trigger? in the old version it was the thor wave and the tyrant wave (thats why people said they were fucking diffucult ). and this time it´s always the mothership...
i killed the problem in the old version by deleting the last 3 waves and making them again from scratch.
is there still a double mothership spawn? then i add this variable condition.
OK, here comes feedback, as promised when we met ingame... And sorry for the wall of text.
First of all, I had a problem once in the lobby where the third player just quit during the countdown. It made the leaderboard mess up our names, but the heroes were still here, the selection screen worked, and the heroes were spawned normally when the game started, but my name was not on the leaderboard, my kills were not counted, and the player who left was in the leaderboard but his name was not displayed. It's probably only a matter of checking names after everyone selected their hero, if you want my opinion. It's safer than checking for names at map init, since bugs could happen and people may quit. You'll also have to update the content of the leaderboard when any player leaves the game, to be sure. I've seen a few bugs during waves (like enemy units becoming friendly in the middle of the wave without any reason, then turning back to enemy when the next wave starts) which were apparently happening only when a player had left the game. This is very problematic when it happens in boss waves, where the boss is with you for a minute, then is against you while you have dozens of units to get rid of, then ally again, etc...
The Witch Doctor seems quite pointless to me... He's weaker than the other heroes so far (I barely survived the first 10 waves even with support, with a level 8 witch doctor), his spells are not really the aggressive kind, so on his own he's not really able to sustain or do enough damage. The Mech, however, is pretty cool... He has a very good firepower (I also got it up to level 9 now), even when at low level (4 and below) and alone, he can stand a few minutes if you have the healing station + some turret to protect him.
It seems however that 3 marines, or 3 HTs, is a very deadly combination (during the first 20 waves, at least)... We won quite easily with just marines or just high templars (each at level 8+). Dark templars are also the only way I've found to last long enough during the last 15 waves. Actually, wave 21 is hard as hell if you have anything but a DT. All my characters are now at least level 8 (8 for the Witch Doctor, 9 or 10 for the others, 11 for the Marine) and I died in almost every wave except the fight against the Witch Doctor (which is really, really easy by the way).
I would also make each summoning spell last longer... because people tend to forget to skip the pause between waves, and all our summoned creatures/units/structures die by the time it ends, while it could have been used in the next wave. I actually would remove the wait between waves, or at least make it shorter instead of writing a "press to skip" line. The tutorial explanation is boring (especially if you're not new, you don't want to see it everytime), it would be better if all the explanations were included in a hint button, the same way you explain achievements at the end of a game. If you make the explanation short enough and easy to understand, beginners will only lose a few seconds reading this while others will rush for the blue spheres (which is already what happens every time anyway).
Overall, I don't think you use the UI at its best, the menu at the end of the game is good though... but I don't understand why you do these lines of text during the waiting times. I'm pretty sure there is a better way to do this, maybe showing a countdown timer in a window or something, instead of some text saying "press esc to skip" everytime... By the way, removing this line of text will also avoid the use of a "clear text messages" trigger which is really annoying when you're chatting with the guys while waiting between waves. I know it's more about tiny details than real feedback here, but from all the games I have played so far in your map, this is a shared feeling amongst players: The waiting times are boring, and/or not well done.
I'm pretty sure you are also able to put some AI in this map, since the boss and waves are able to use their abilities cleverly you could apply the same AI routines to a CPU-controlled player added in the lobby. It will make things easier when you have a hero at level 0 and want to boost his level before playing online with real guys. Having more than 3 players and a bigger map could be interesting (especially in wave 21 and above). I would have made a game variant in the lobby, so that the host can choose the starting wave directly here instead of making people vote... By the way the vote seems bugged at the moment, often not appearing on screen, and/or the other players said they voted 21+, but we started at wave 1 anyway...
This is my feedback so far, huge wall of text but hopefully useful to improve your map, without discussing for hours about balancing. I personally got more frustrated by the UI and lines of text than by the waves themselves. Good job, you're officially my most played custom map so far.
Details make a great map. Please change games description (where it says "choose 1 of 4 heroes and defeat 20 waves..."). Also remove computer players from lobby, as right now game misleads people by saying that map has 5 player slots. By the way, players can set handicap for orange computer and thus drastically decreasing overall difficulty.
heeey its not that bad :-D i fixed most of them, now i fix the 24th wave. from your playing exoerience, what can you tell me about the new waves? are they too challening? was it possible to make a lot of points? which wave was too easy / too hard?
edit: and thanks for the feedback ducky and bones
It was fun, I played Vortex/Heal/Cooldown HT with 2 void prison dt's. Dts permanently locked bosses and killed most of enemies with their ultimate, I vortexed everything.. strangely enough we had problems with air level, but that's probably cause of lack of coordination between us. One thing that disturbed me was that we didn't get much experience. It would be more profitable for us to replay lvl1-20 to max out rather than try to beat harder levels..
Edit: By the way, someone is waiting for you at "TSL" at sc2.
how many times did you die?
Two times(we got swarmed by mutas/broodlings and overwhelmed). The only time when we got past it was when I cheated and made an army. But i think the difficulty should not be lowered. It's supposed to be hard.
hm... the point system is: (max life + shield of the killed unit) * all Factor / 10 at the first waves and /15 at the hard waves, because there is lot more "life" to earn in these waves, but on the other hand if you die that easy at these waves... hm i will do /10 too. so more points to earn :)
Psycho, would you mind to join our conversation at b-net? There are some of yesterdays testers, and even more opinions on balance and recent changes.
sure, give me 1 min
seems u uploaded an update today, would you mind posting the changes?
i noticed that the endboss was buffed, he cant be prisoned any more. anything else?
add a changelog help tip ingame ;) just discovered them cause of you
I second that. And also maybe post here changes you've made.. cause it's discouraging to post bugs/issues that may have already been fixed. (did you fix dual mothership spawn & did you give last boss heroic attribute?)
hey, yeah i added a changelog. i´m not sure if i fixed the double mothership spawn, because like the double tyrant spawn there is no double trigger and i couldnt find an explanation. i only deleted an unnessecary waiting time at the end of the trigger before, don´t know if this influenced that bug. but when i played the map , only 1 mothership spawned. when was the last time you saw a double spawn? did the double spawn appeare whenever you play or only sometimes?
Yes, the last boss is heroic :)
and made so many changes yesterday that they can´t fit in the loading screen:
- Removed minimum range for space daemon attack
- Lemming/Cockroach award was mixed up
- Button text of the Healing Tower heal is changed
- Void Prison disturbs the game too much and is replaced by shadow grenade (Armor Bonus for all DTs within the shadow, and damage malus for ALL non DT units, more detailed: melee 25 %, range 50%)
- Archons have a shield armor of 3
- Gatling cannon got less armor reduction, so it deals more damage to targets with any armor value than before
- Mothership is a structure, so its not affected by the DTs shockwave
- Teleportation armor and Merc Calldown (assault marine) grant more armor, so they a good alternatives to heavy armor and Medics armor provides the Med Drone ability, which is simply a healing wave and not channeled like the ability before
- Diamondbacks won´t run away when they are dominated
- In the Tyrant wave will periodically spawn an ultralisk and in the Protoss Hybrid wave 4 young Tyrants (if it became too difficult, PLZ TELL ME)
an easy solution for double trigger proccs:
global var: motherspawn = false <bool>
add a condition: motherspawned = false
first action: set motherspawn = true
sometimes the server is to slow and you have multiple events even if it should be possible. had the same vor me and the you killed 1000 units trigger. it fired multiple times even if the condition said kills == 1000. this happend when multiple units died at the same time, like of a nuke
@b0ne123: Go
aah ok thx... but why always the same trigger? in the old version it was the thor wave and the tyrant wave (thats why people said they were fucking diffucult ). and this time it´s always the mothership...
i killed the problem in the old version by deleting the last 3 waves and making them again from scratch.
is there still a double mothership spawn? then i add this variable condition.
Awesome, awesome! I'll be playing this a bit again, checking out the new heroes and all :)
im still up for it if you need people.
@gl0ckage: Go
just play, enjoy and report bugs you see here :=)
OK, here comes feedback, as promised when we met ingame... And sorry for the wall of text.
First of all, I had a problem once in the lobby where the third player just quit during the countdown. It made the leaderboard mess up our names, but the heroes were still here, the selection screen worked, and the heroes were spawned normally when the game started, but my name was not on the leaderboard, my kills were not counted, and the player who left was in the leaderboard but his name was not displayed. It's probably only a matter of checking names after everyone selected their hero, if you want my opinion. It's safer than checking for names at map init, since bugs could happen and people may quit. You'll also have to update the content of the leaderboard when any player leaves the game, to be sure. I've seen a few bugs during waves (like enemy units becoming friendly in the middle of the wave without any reason, then turning back to enemy when the next wave starts) which were apparently happening only when a player had left the game. This is very problematic when it happens in boss waves, where the boss is with you for a minute, then is against you while you have dozens of units to get rid of, then ally again, etc...
The Witch Doctor seems quite pointless to me... He's weaker than the other heroes so far (I barely survived the first 10 waves even with support, with a level 8 witch doctor), his spells are not really the aggressive kind, so on his own he's not really able to sustain or do enough damage. The Mech, however, is pretty cool... He has a very good firepower (I also got it up to level 9 now), even when at low level (4 and below) and alone, he can stand a few minutes if you have the healing station + some turret to protect him.
It seems however that 3 marines, or 3 HTs, is a very deadly combination (during the first 20 waves, at least)... We won quite easily with just marines or just high templars (each at level 8+). Dark templars are also the only way I've found to last long enough during the last 15 waves. Actually, wave 21 is hard as hell if you have anything but a DT. All my characters are now at least level 8 (8 for the Witch Doctor, 9 or 10 for the others, 11 for the Marine) and I died in almost every wave except the fight against the Witch Doctor (which is really, really easy by the way).
I would also make each summoning spell last longer... because people tend to forget to skip the pause between waves, and all our summoned creatures/units/structures die by the time it ends, while it could have been used in the next wave. I actually would remove the wait between waves, or at least make it shorter instead of writing a "press to skip" line. The tutorial explanation is boring (especially if you're not new, you don't want to see it everytime), it would be better if all the explanations were included in a hint button, the same way you explain achievements at the end of a game. If you make the explanation short enough and easy to understand, beginners will only lose a few seconds reading this while others will rush for the blue spheres (which is already what happens every time anyway).
Overall, I don't think you use the UI at its best, the menu at the end of the game is good though... but I don't understand why you do these lines of text during the waiting times. I'm pretty sure there is a better way to do this, maybe showing a countdown timer in a window or something, instead of some text saying "press esc to skip" everytime... By the way, removing this line of text will also avoid the use of a "clear text messages" trigger which is really annoying when you're chatting with the guys while waiting between waves. I know it's more about tiny details than real feedback here, but from all the games I have played so far in your map, this is a shared feeling amongst players: The waiting times are boring, and/or not well done.
I'm pretty sure you are also able to put some AI in this map, since the boss and waves are able to use their abilities cleverly you could apply the same AI routines to a CPU-controlled player added in the lobby. It will make things easier when you have a hero at level 0 and want to boost his level before playing online with real guys. Having more than 3 players and a bigger map could be interesting (especially in wave 21 and above). I would have made a game variant in the lobby, so that the host can choose the starting wave directly here instead of making people vote... By the way the vote seems bugged at the moment, often not appearing on screen, and/or the other players said they voted 21+, but we started at wave 1 anyway...
This is my feedback so far, huge wall of text but hopefully useful to improve your map, without discussing for hours about balancing. I personally got more frustrated by the UI and lines of text than by the waves themselves. Good job, you're officially my most played custom map so far.
Details make a great map. Please change games description (where it says "choose 1 of 4 heroes and defeat 20 waves..."). Also remove computer players from lobby, as right now game misleads people by saying that map has 5 player slots. By the way, players can set handicap for orange computer and thus drastically decreasing overall difficulty.
@DuckyTheDuck: Go
thx for giving me feedback. ducky i would like to hide the health bar at the beginning,like you wish, do you know how?
"Der Teufel steckt im Detail" The devil is in the details.
@PsychoMC: Go
Find trigger action "Unit - Set Unit State". One of states is "Status Bar", turn it off.