1- Yes they should.
2- Only if melee is far from defined, because we know they won't make drastic changes to it once the game is released.
3- As Mozared I'd pay for the campaign alone, but we map makers will also get tons of new assets, new editor mechanics, so it's worth the price. The main discussion about it not being worth is for melee-only players.
4- I doubt it will bring new players to SC2. It can bring some lost players back and convince a good number of players to stay though.
1. Yeah sure why not.
2. Doubt it makes a difference.
3. Yep.
4. For esports, it will do its job. Map editor & campaign is really what I'm paying for though. WoL's story & plot was atrocious, so let's hope they learned something.
1) No, there are some cool pre-arcade abandoned projects that could serve as learning material. Erasing them in this publishing system would be same as erasing them forever since their makers probably don't do sc2 anymore and source maps are probably lost.
2) Why should it?
3) For me it seems like a justified price.
4) ... what mozared said. But since blizz seem to be improving on social side of b-net I can only hope that they'll be more open to suggestions on how to improve the experience, thus prolonging games longevity.
but we map makers will also get tons of new assets, new editor mechanics, so it's worth the price.
Wait I thought those were free without buying HotS?
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I am largely inactive, but I am still around. Feel free to poke me if you need some help, just be warned that I only really come back if I need help and/or if I'm posting a new map/library.
@Yaksmanofage: Go Editor mechanics are probably free, but assets (models, sounds ,textures and icons, terrain) aren't, you can only use them if you add the HoTS dependency to your map, which means you need to buy the expansion.
I am largely inactive, but I am still around. Feel free to poke me if you need some help, just be warned that I only really come back if I need help and/or if I'm posting a new map/library.
"Oh yeah editor stuff is totally free no strings attached!
...
Everything else costs bud pay up or get out."
:(
It's not a big deal, you can freely access HotS assets even if you don't have a valid HotS license. There are multiple ways (account sharing, server emulation). Running map locally should be also pretty simple as long as there are no new strange network architecture is rewritten in HotS.
The only thing you need a license for is to publish said map. This is perfectly acceptable for me.
Back in WC3.....taking Frozen throne assets into vanilla WC3 would get maps banned. If I recall correctly. Either way it's likely going to be frowned apon.
1- I wouldn't mind. As long as maps that have been updated to 1.5 or later are not purged.
2- No, they've got plenty of time to work on the game.
3- Without the campaign, I would say no way for me. But the campagin in WoL was so good I'd happily pay another 40 bucks for a campagin of equal quality. Plus I'll need to get at the new editor ;)
4- They'll certainly make a ludicrous amount of money. I think it's going to be a stressful e-sport as well, so long as they can balance it properly. Things looked totally messed up back in the WoL beta, but they got everything working by the launch.
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I honestly hope they have lowish sales, Maybe that would at least show them they cant just give everyone the finger and then come back when the game is close to releasing...
and I dont mean any people in general, But i just mean the inactivity before patch 1.5
You cant just drop off the grid like that, and expect everyone to be happy.
I just hope they get hit hard enough so they understand. Though Talking to deletarius the otherday, I know they have some very hard working people who just love the games they create. But somewhere in upper management there is someone slackin.
1. To some extent: yes. They should keep the older ones but put them in a "legacy" category while amping up the requirements of the new content. More quality controls! Actually the most boring part is the icon... They could just change it to a random color as a placeholder. It should also be possible to report games that are broken/wont load properly due to legacy problems.
2. No. They got a lot of feedback from the huffpuff a month ago (?) and should take their time to work that out. They killed some darlings and now that the world championships are over they can start experimenting/fine-tuning the beta more aggressively.
3. Sure! But I dont know if I will have the money its worth :) The campaign with some new doodads and models 'n stuff is always welcome. Also - remember that these one-time-purchases are funding the development of the next game. The more money they make now - the more they will be willing to invest in the next game/release.
4. Yes! Considering how much time I spend in the editor - how much fun I have with it - its definetely worth it. Its about 3 movie tickets (6h of content) or 4 pizzas, compared to 100s of hours gameplay and mapmaking! Also, as a mapmaker/hobby gamedeveloper I have to consider the alternative cost of learning some other tool. The price of changing is vastly higher than sticking to the sc2 editor - especially since my games will never earn me any cash.
1) Yes - a purge is greatly needed. Name Squatting is a problem (as always) - but more so we need to get rid of maps that A) Have not been updated in a very long time, B) Are in a very bad unfinished state and C) Implement some kind of bar that maps should adhere to in terms of quality - not a censorship saying your map must be good or else u can't upload it - but rather reward map makers for attaining that level of polish. Custom Icons should be used rather than default ones - yes I understand not everyone is an artist and that new map makers want their project to look good, but getting a custom icon done isn't that hard as quite a few people have played with shop in their times. -_-
2) No ... why even bring this up? Stop creating drama ... bad boy.
3) That reminds me I have to preorder the CE ... and just for the fact that the Australian price matches the US price + GST is good enough for me. No more paying 50% more when our dollar is worth more than the USA.
4) I believe HOTS will be the Golden Era of not only the Esports scene but also the UMS scene - much like the first few years of Frozen Throne were.
1. Yes, I also see some complaints usually from war3ers that the maps they see lack terrain and look so empty.. yeah because of the low quality maps that are spotted. I see lots of good terrains around here, so if you make your maps to the noticable area, I am sure the empty lacking maps should be gone.
2. .No, it can stay like that, they have plenty of time besides, once the important things are brought, the rest can be done with patches. Plus, the game was delayed long enough.
3. Although a market trick - removing the features all want and then bringing them with HotS so that all buy HotS, with having them and a lot other t hings, it is worth the price.
4. In Esports - yes, in mapmaking much more than now, in modeling - well... not as much as in war3.
1. No. There's bound to be some lost gems in the database. What's wrong with keeping them tucked away out of harm's way? Conversely, what's right about purging them at all?
2. No. 2+ years is plenty long!
3. I'm actually pleasantly surprised at it being $40. StarCraft II is a solid investment no matter how you shake it. I'm getting it.
4. It won't sell as much as Diablo III but it sure will have a lot more staying power.
1. Resetting the "up&coming", "featured" and all other pages at each new season would be nice to help mappers... I'm fed up with seeing the same maps over and over in the first pages, I still can't believe people keep playing these maps since the release of WoL (Pimp my Footman, Space Battles, Nexus War, etc...)! Don't they get bored at some point? Do they even know there is way more than enough good maps to play on the Arcade to keep them busy?
2. No. No no no. NO NO NO NO. NOOOOOOOOOO! I want to play HotS, and I don't care if it's not perfectly balanced right on day 1. SC1 wasn't perfectly balanced either when Brood War came out, and yet the game ended up as awesome as it could be. I see no point in delaying HotS anymore, it's already been 2 years. Don't make it another Duke Nukem For(n)ever...
3. Although it's an entire game with a singleplayer campaign of its own, I was expecting something closer to 30€... Not to mention the price of the special editions, which are insanely expensive given the items included. Hopefully the price will be slightly lower than 40€ if you buy the box version in your local store (it was the case for WoL, I bought it 10-15€ cheaper than the digital version on BattleNet).
4. It depends... Most SC2 players are playing melee only. Eventually, the game will be balanced so I guess it will be a success (not to mention the addition of clans and other cool features). For mappers however, I still think there's room for improvement. I expect them to do something in the coming years, probably with the release of the second expansion. I seriously doubt the players will pay attention though, since they're not even able to review custom maps properly (seriously, have you checked some reviews at random? they give 1 star each time they lose a game, as if it was the author's fault... A lot of them still don't know you can rate a map without writing a blank review...). The more I play this game, the less I like the average player. They blame Blizzard at every patch (the Diablo 3 community is getting seriously ridiculous, by the way), and can't review a custom map properly if it requires more than "pop up marines and rush like an idiot".
...A lot of them still don't know you can rate a map without writing a blank review...
Here is a fun little fact you might have not known: when you play fun or not you're forced to rate map (you can cancel, but lets be honest, who cancels stuff nowadays) after playing it. It says that review is optional, but leaving it as it is will produce infamous blank review.
Undecided - I wouldn't mind it either way, but if they do do some "purge", they should make it a regular thing, for example during the first server maintenance each month they just remove maps that are 2 game versions behind (So 1.3 maps would be removed, 1.4 maps kept), and after a month or two they'd remove from 1 version behind (So 1.4 maps would be removed), and those maps have to be inactive (No plays in the last month or two (plays which give a 1 or 2 star rating or are less than 5 minutes long are not counted)). In addition to removing those, inactive maps that lack the arcade stuff (Screenshots, icon, descriptions, etc.) should be removed as well. This would clear up the list a lot.
I don't see any reason to push it back.
I don't see why it wouldn't be. Averaging 20 minutes per campaign mission (If you say that's high, then count the out-of-mission stuff into these 20 minutes) it's just over 6 and a half hours of game time, and I expect it to last longer than that due to the out-of-mission stuff and certain missions lasting longer as well. Dunno what a cinema trip (Ticket+anything else you buy, like popcorn) costs for you guys, but let's say it costs 10€, you can go to the cinema four times for this, which would be roughly 6 hours worth of movies. Now add the time you're gonna be spending mapping, playing multiplayer and possibly going through all conversations and cutscenes in the campaign, maybe even re-playing missions, and you get a lot more than six hours out of it.
Don't see why not. Yea, LoL may be becoming the more popular esport, but it's not the same category. Someone who likes watching sports may not care for car racing or tennis or something while he would care about basketball and football (The kind of football you play with your foot), same applies to esports. LoL isn't the same type of game as SC2, so while audiences may overlap they don't necessarily steal each others viewers. While it took them a good amount of time, mapping and battle.net seems to be improving, and don't forget that Blizzard Allstars is coming out eventually which should keep some people playing for quite a while.
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There is going to be multiple debates.
1. Should blizzard Purge the map section and make everyone re-upload their projects with arcade icons and everything
2. Should the release date get pushed back
3. Is it worth the price.
4. Will it Succeed.
I'll bite.
1. Good question. I'm edging towards 'yes'. Will keep valuable maps and map makers who put in effort in there.
2. No? Why?
3. For me it definitely is - I'm willing to pay for the campaign alone.
4. Define 'succeed'.
1. I wouldnt mind maps requiring to have arcade icon + screenshots + valid description to be accepted
2. no
3. no
4. on eSports...sorta..but it will fall flat in most aspects and become boring faster than wol
1- Yes they should.
2- Only if melee is far from defined, because we know they won't make drastic changes to it once the game is released.
3- As Mozared I'd pay for the campaign alone, but we map makers will also get tons of new assets, new editor mechanics, so it's worth the price. The main discussion about it not being worth is for melee-only players.
4- I doubt it will bring new players to SC2. It can bring some lost players back and convince a good number of players to stay though.
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Curse Premium1. Yeah sure why not.
2. Doubt it makes a difference.
3. Yep.
4. For esports, it will do its job. Map editor & campaign is really what I'm paying for though. WoL's story & plot was atrocious, so let's hope they learned something.
@Taintedwisp: Go
1) No, there are some cool pre-arcade abandoned projects that could serve as learning material. Erasing them in this publishing system would be same as erasing them forever since their makers probably don't do sc2 anymore and source maps are probably lost.
2) Why should it?
3) For me it seems like a justified price.
4) ... what mozared said. But since blizz seem to be improving on social side of b-net I can only hope that they'll be more open to suggestions on how to improve the experience, thus prolonging games longevity.
Wait I thought those were free without buying HotS?
@Yaksmanofage: Go Editor mechanics are probably free, but assets (models, sounds ,textures and icons, terrain) aren't, you can only use them if you add the HoTS dependency to your map, which means you need to buy the expansion.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Aww boo!
Love those catches.
"Oh yeah editor stuff is totally free no strings attached!
...
Everything else costs bud pay up or get out."
:(
It's not a big deal, you can freely access HotS assets even if you don't have a valid HotS license. There are multiple ways (account sharing, server emulation). Running map locally should be also pretty simple as long as there are no new strange network architecture is rewritten in HotS.
The only thing you need a license for is to publish said map. This is perfectly acceptable for me.
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Curse PremiumI take it that importing HoTS doodads into WoL maps is frowned upon?
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Curse Premium@Gradius12: Go
Back in WC3.....taking Frozen throne assets into vanilla WC3 would get maps banned. If I recall correctly. Either way it's likely going to be frowned apon.
1- I wouldn't mind. As long as maps that have been updated to 1.5 or later are not purged.
2- No, they've got plenty of time to work on the game.
3- Without the campaign, I would say no way for me. But the campagin in WoL was so good I'd happily pay another 40 bucks for a campagin of equal quality. Plus I'll need to get at the new editor ;)
4- They'll certainly make a ludicrous amount of money. I think it's going to be a stressful e-sport as well, so long as they can balance it properly. Things looked totally messed up back in the WoL beta, but they got everything working by the launch.
@zeldarules28: Go
I honestly hope they have lowish sales, Maybe that would at least show them they cant just give everyone the finger and then come back when the game is close to releasing...
and I dont mean any people in general, But i just mean the inactivity before patch 1.5
You cant just drop off the grid like that, and expect everyone to be happy.
I just hope they get hit hard enough so they understand. Though Talking to deletarius the otherday, I know they have some very hard working people who just love the games they create. But somewhere in upper management there is someone slackin.
1. To some extent: yes. They should keep the older ones but put them in a "legacy" category while amping up the requirements of the new content. More quality controls! Actually the most boring part is the icon... They could just change it to a random color as a placeholder. It should also be possible to report games that are broken/wont load properly due to legacy problems.
2. No. They got a lot of feedback from the huffpuff a month ago (?) and should take their time to work that out. They killed some darlings and now that the world championships are over they can start experimenting/fine-tuning the beta more aggressively.
3. Sure! But I dont know if I will have the money its worth :) The campaign with some new doodads and models 'n stuff is always welcome. Also - remember that these one-time-purchases are funding the development of the next game. The more money they make now - the more they will be willing to invest in the next game/release.
4. Yes! Considering how much time I spend in the editor - how much fun I have with it - its definetely worth it. Its about 3 movie tickets (6h of content) or 4 pizzas, compared to 100s of hours gameplay and mapmaking! Also, as a mapmaker/hobby gamedeveloper I have to consider the alternative cost of learning some other tool. The price of changing is vastly higher than sticking to the sc2 editor - especially since my games will never earn me any cash.
1) Yes - a purge is greatly needed. Name Squatting is a problem (as always) - but more so we need to get rid of maps that A) Have not been updated in a very long time, B) Are in a very bad unfinished state and C) Implement some kind of bar that maps should adhere to in terms of quality - not a censorship saying your map must be good or else u can't upload it - but rather reward map makers for attaining that level of polish. Custom Icons should be used rather than default ones - yes I understand not everyone is an artist and that new map makers want their project to look good, but getting a custom icon done isn't that hard as quite a few people have played with shop in their times. -_-
2) No ... why even bring this up? Stop creating drama ... bad boy.
3) That reminds me I have to preorder the CE ... and just for the fact that the Australian price matches the US price + GST is good enough for me. No more paying 50% more when our dollar is worth more than the USA.
4) I believe HOTS will be the Golden Era of not only the Esports scene but also the UMS scene - much like the first few years of Frozen Throne were.
1. Yes, I also see some complaints usually from war3ers that the maps they see lack terrain and look so empty.. yeah because of the low quality maps that are spotted. I see lots of good terrains around here, so if you make your maps to the noticable area, I am sure the empty lacking maps should be gone.
2. .No, it can stay like that, they have plenty of time besides, once the important things are brought, the rest can be done with patches. Plus, the game was delayed long enough.
3. Although a market trick - removing the features all want and then bringing them with HotS so that all buy HotS, with having them and a lot other t hings, it is worth the price.
4. In Esports - yes, in mapmaking much more than now, in modeling - well... not as much as in war3.
@Taintedwisp: Go
1. No. There's bound to be some lost gems in the database. What's wrong with keeping them tucked away out of harm's way? Conversely, what's right about purging them at all?
2. No. 2+ years is plenty long!
3. I'm actually pleasantly surprised at it being $40. StarCraft II is a solid investment no matter how you shake it. I'm getting it.
4. It won't sell as much as Diablo III but it sure will have a lot more staying power.
1. Resetting the "up&coming", "featured" and all other pages at each new season would be nice to help mappers... I'm fed up with seeing the same maps over and over in the first pages, I still can't believe people keep playing these maps since the release of WoL (Pimp my Footman, Space Battles, Nexus War, etc...)! Don't they get bored at some point? Do they even know there is way more than enough good maps to play on the Arcade to keep them busy?
2. No. No no no. NO NO NO NO. NOOOOOOOOOO! I want to play HotS, and I don't care if it's not perfectly balanced right on day 1. SC1 wasn't perfectly balanced either when Brood War came out, and yet the game ended up as awesome as it could be. I see no point in delaying HotS anymore, it's already been 2 years. Don't make it another Duke Nukem For(n)ever...
3. Although it's an entire game with a singleplayer campaign of its own, I was expecting something closer to 30€... Not to mention the price of the special editions, which are insanely expensive given the items included. Hopefully the price will be slightly lower than 40€ if you buy the box version in your local store (it was the case for WoL, I bought it 10-15€ cheaper than the digital version on BattleNet).
4. It depends... Most SC2 players are playing melee only. Eventually, the game will be balanced so I guess it will be a success (not to mention the addition of clans and other cool features). For mappers however, I still think there's room for improvement. I expect them to do something in the coming years, probably with the release of the second expansion. I seriously doubt the players will pay attention though, since they're not even able to review custom maps properly (seriously, have you checked some reviews at random? they give 1 star each time they lose a game, as if it was the author's fault... A lot of them still don't know you can rate a map without writing a blank review...). The more I play this game, the less I like the average player. They blame Blizzard at every patch (the Diablo 3 community is getting seriously ridiculous, by the way), and can't review a custom map properly if it requires more than "pop up marines and rush like an idiot".
Here is a fun little fact you might have not known: when you play fun or not you're forced to rate map (you can cancel, but lets be honest, who cancels stuff nowadays) after playing it. It says that review is optional, but leaving it as it is will produce infamous blank review.