I am considering hiring a professional, best-in-class map developer to create a custom map for SC2. I would like to get a sense from this community how much it would cost, and how long it would take.
Here are the requirements:
Development of a map that will include:
- A creative, dynamic game concept with minimal violence
- Custom units (or customized versions of existing units- customized meaning having a specific design)
- Custom buildings (or customized versions of existing buildings)
NOTE: design will be provided, but will have to be integrated into SC - i.e. Developer would be given JPEGs that will need to be applied to units/made into units.
- Custom intro image, intro, possibly in-game cutscenes (nothing crazy, sort of like the intro to Merchants of Death)
- Full QA/testing to make sure the map runs perfectly
Developer Requirements
- Outstanding knowledge of SC2, the map-making environment, all necessary scripting, etc.
- Portfolio of existing sucessful maps
- Any formal education in gaming/computer dev is bonus, but not necessary
- Ability to work on the project full-time, or nearly full-time (basically, a rapid turn-around)
- Provide ongoing support/refinement
A decent example of scope would be the Merchants of Death map I mentioned above, or maybe something like Marine Arena (this one is on the simpler end ofthe spectrum). Remember, the developer would be responsible for coming up with the whole dynamic of the map, including concept (within guidelines that will be established) - possibly working in conjunction with an advisor.
I am looking for how long it would take to develop (in both hours and weeks, depending on developer's availability) and the cost (hourly or for the whole project).
If you are going to reply, please give serious consideration to all of the above requirements. Please send me a message if you might be interested, and your estimates regarding timing and compensation.
Pretty much. I would be providing guidelines and certain limitations for what the game could entail. Some 'creative direction'.
As far as graphics, I would be providing images that would need to be integrated into the game.
I dont think these kind of projects are something you should invest your money in. Couple reasons
No matter how skilled the map maker is, its impossible to say if the map will be great
If you wan to make a large scale map it wil take loooong to do alone, even with multiple people it will take long
So based on just those two things I think it will be very likely you wont get satisfying results for your money. Any reasonable mapper should chage atleast 10d/h IMO, not worth it otherwise -_-....So only if you are RICH you should consider these kind of things.
Also if you want minimaps/games designed that might be a different thing too.
well in terms of what you have asked, you could easily be talking thousands of UK pounds or USA dollars, you would need to really sit down and design the entire concept so the developer could give you an accurate brief.
...Remember, the developer would be responsible for coming up with the whole dynamic of the map, including concept...
you as the designer should be responsible for the dynamic and the concept, the developer should be making it play how YOU want it to play, not the other way round. otherwise you are basically telling someone i have a blue marine in a jpeg, make me a good map please - it's not really the way i would suggest going about it as you might not get as much interest as if you planned the map down to tiny details.
@zenx1: Go
zenx1:
Compensation is not the issue so much as finding a quality developer/team. Payment would be whatever is fair (taking into account experience, previous work, what others offer, etc.). I expect it will be higher than 10/hr. Ideally it would be someone who loves doing this stuff on their own, and wouldn't mind doing it under certain guidelines in exchange for some pay.
What is a minimap/game (vs. a regular custom map)?
xil:
As I mentioned above, the cost is less of an issue than ensuring quality. Regarding the process, there will be a lot of input from me regarding gameplay and concept, but the developer I would assume is a experienced gamer/mapmaker and would be expected to be part of the concepting process, not just make whatever they're told.
Again, the ideal situation would be a person who already makes maps for enjoyment (I think that's why folks here make maps. Blizzard doesn't pay you right?), and would like to make some decent money for creating a map for someone else.
If you wish to sell this thru the maps marketplace (which I'm going to assume is your goal here) you also need to take into account that getting data and trigger work done will not get you selling on the marketplace. Blizz has stated in the past that only projects with nearly 100% brand new custom art and content will be sellable. This is a large, large undertaking. Not only would you need data and trigger guys, level designers, but 3d artists. Then you need to think about voice acting, music, sound fx, all that.
Time consuming and expensive. If this isn't your goal, then disregard what I've just said and carry on. Gl :)
Why not learn the editor and do it yourself? If you're looking to take full credit for a map in exchange for a ton of money, I would rather make a map for credit thank you. At least I have a lasting impact on the community in exchange for my hard work. Too many sell their souls for money, I think that any reading this post should ask for full credit, don't sell your hard work for a couple bucks when you could have a stable job for your hard work instead.
I am not intending to sell the map, just to create a great map that anyone can play free. I don't think that the scope of what I am envisioning will be a great as what you mention. Certainly no voice acting, etc.
I think the complexity will be equal to some of the maps already out there - MoD, Risk Revulsion, Marine Arena, Footman Frenzy, DoTA
@Laertes
I don't have time or inclination learn the editor - I need a professional. I am also not trying to take credit for it - the developer will have their name on the map and will be able to boast about it!
it is exactly as you say, we do maps for fun. Is it fun if someone just tells you what to do? I think it will most likely just feel like a job if you do it at someone elses terms.
but if you get enough compensation, it still might become worth it to do stuff for someone else.
As I said, the developer will have a great deal control of the project. I just have a few guidelines - a 'theme' to build the map around. But the actual game play, game dynamics, etc. will be up to them. There will be brainstorming for the best game/map concept for the theme, we wil create the game dynamics together, then the developer will build the map to specifications we come up with. I and several others would be fully involved in the project, just not the actual development portion (working in the editor).
I would go over the details of the project once I find some candidates, if they are not satisfied then of course we wouldn't work together. I believe this would be a really fun project, I suspect, and will be challenging and require a lot of creativity. But it will also be paid, an will require commitment to see the project through to the end.
Basically, for a great mapmaker, this would probably be the most fun job (real job - the type you can put on your resume) they ever had.
Contact Mephs. If anyone thinks he has more dedication/exp/knowledge, I doubt so.
I'm not his fanboy though, I hate all of you cause that's my style bitches.
It depends on what you want, really. On one side, what I see here is someone who has a vision for a map but no mapping skills, looking for someone to make his vision come through.
On the other hand, he's offering payment, something that doesn't usually happen in our modding community - which leads me to believe that aside from quality, this man might also want to plump his name on the project. Or not - I'm actually kind of confused as to this. Regardless of how you put it, contrary to the believe of some here, you can easily have an 'unfair' divide of work on map, as long as you make sure the credits stay true. If the vision is yours but someone else made the whole map, just make the credits say "Vision: MapSeeker, Map realization: Mapper X".
That said, since your position is a bit akward, I reckon this is what you'll want to clarify to peak more interest; is it correct that you have a vision you want to see realized, and that you'd be willing to pay someone to create it? And that you'd want the credits to stay true to who has actually done what work?
You can't have a single developer working on a map and make it well-made, popular and regularly updated, especially as most mappers don't know how to model and have a specific part of mapping they specialise in (Eg, ProzaicMuze is an actor guy, Mozared is a terrainer, I am a trigger guy but with enough skill to data edit competently, zenx1 is a trigger/ data guy, Mephs is a good all-round mapper).
If you are wanting to pay someone to make a massive map with custom models, I would suggest firstly seeking out a freelance modeller to pay them for the models, and getting a data editor, trigger editor and terrainer. I would also suggest against this because at this point there is no way to upload really large maps with tons of assets or a way to get a profit.
1. Shouldn't this be in the Team Recruitement forum?
2. You should know before you get into this that you're talking about a TON of money and may not get anything back.
3. Even the best maps rarely gain enough popularity to be played often. You could spend a ton of money, get the best game on B-net, and never, ever have somebody play it.
4. wOlfLisK, you forgot me as well! Im not really a heavyweight around here, but I have a devotion to mapping, spend tons of time on it and do just about everything. I made high rated custom models in Warcraft. In Starcraft I do data, triggers, custom assets, ui design, concept design, etc, etc; Basically, I only skip out on terrain and that's because I find terraining tedious, so I have no will to refine my skills in that area :P.
I think there are quite a few mappers that do everything, but it's rare to find somebody that's GOOD at everything...heck it's rare to find people that are good at ONE thing.
For a decent project you are looking in the low six figure mark @ supermarket wages ($22/h) for a two person team of Trigger+Data to Tofu/Smashcraft level of polishing with custom art, excluding models, with IP rights retained by the authors and with a very basic licence included.
That would be roughly about 8 months work - I discussed this with Mephs for curiosity sakes and we came to the same price range. This is also just at a supermarket wage level - not necessarily a price the people you would want on the project would accept.
(And yes, supermarkets in Australia pay $22/h $25US, but before you QQ our cost of living is sky high compared to the USA).
Hello,
I am considering hiring a professional, best-in-class map developer to create a custom map for SC2. I would like to get a sense from this community how much it would cost, and how long it would take.
Here are the requirements: Development of a map that will include: - A creative, dynamic game concept with minimal violence - Custom units (or customized versions of existing units- customized meaning having a specific design) - Custom buildings (or customized versions of existing buildings) NOTE: design will be provided, but will have to be integrated into SC - i.e. Developer would be given JPEGs that will need to be applied to units/made into units. - Custom intro image, intro, possibly in-game cutscenes (nothing crazy, sort of like the intro to Merchants of Death) - Full QA/testing to make sure the map runs perfectly
Developer Requirements - Outstanding knowledge of SC2, the map-making environment, all necessary scripting, etc. - Portfolio of existing sucessful maps - Any formal education in gaming/computer dev is bonus, but not necessary - Ability to work on the project full-time, or nearly full-time (basically, a rapid turn-around) - Provide ongoing support/refinement
A decent example of scope would be the Merchants of Death map I mentioned above, or maybe something like Marine Arena (this one is on the simpler end ofthe spectrum). Remember, the developer would be responsible for coming up with the whole dynamic of the map, including concept (within guidelines that will be established) - possibly working in conjunction with an advisor.
I am looking for how long it would take to develop (in both hours and weeks, depending on developer's availability) and the cost (hourly or for the whole project).
If you are going to reply, please give serious consideration to all of the above requirements. Please send me a message if you might be interested, and your estimates regarding timing and compensation.
Thanks a ton everyone,
Andrey
So you want to pay someone to make a map for you in its entirety?
The only thing you are providing is the game layout and some concept art?
@ProzaicMuze: Go
Pretty much. I would be providing guidelines and certain limitations for what the game could entail. Some 'creative direction'. As far as graphics, I would be providing images that would need to be integrated into the game.
I dont think these kind of projects are something you should invest your money in. Couple reasons
So based on just those two things I think it will be very likely you wont get satisfying results for your money. Any reasonable mapper should chage atleast 10d/h IMO, not worth it otherwise -_-....So only if you are RICH you should consider these kind of things.
Also if you want minimaps/games designed that might be a different thing too.
well in terms of what you have asked, you could easily be talking thousands of UK pounds or USA dollars, you would need to really sit down and design the entire concept so the developer could give you an accurate brief.
'made into units' - does that involve modelling? if so then increase the cost yet again and time frame also
you as the designer should be responsible for the dynamic and the concept, the developer should be making it play how YOU want it to play, not the other way round. otherwise you are basically telling someone i have a blue marine in a jpeg, make me a good map please - it's not really the way i would suggest going about it as you might not get as much interest as if you planned the map down to tiny details.
@zenx1: Go zenx1: Compensation is not the issue so much as finding a quality developer/team. Payment would be whatever is fair (taking into account experience, previous work, what others offer, etc.). I expect it will be higher than 10/hr. Ideally it would be someone who loves doing this stuff on their own, and wouldn't mind doing it under certain guidelines in exchange for some pay.
What is a minimap/game (vs. a regular custom map)?
xil: As I mentioned above, the cost is less of an issue than ensuring quality. Regarding the process, there will be a lot of input from me regarding gameplay and concept, but the developer I would assume is a experienced gamer/mapmaker and would be expected to be part of the concepting process, not just make whatever they're told.
Again, the ideal situation would be a person who already makes maps for enjoyment (I think that's why folks here make maps. Blizzard doesn't pay you right?), and would like to make some decent money for creating a map for someone else.
@MapSeeker: Go
If you wish to sell this thru the maps marketplace (which I'm going to assume is your goal here) you also need to take into account that getting data and trigger work done will not get you selling on the marketplace. Blizz has stated in the past that only projects with nearly 100% brand new custom art and content will be sellable. This is a large, large undertaking. Not only would you need data and trigger guys, level designers, but 3d artists. Then you need to think about voice acting, music, sound fx, all that.
Time consuming and expensive. If this isn't your goal, then disregard what I've just said and carry on. Gl :)
@MapSeeker: Go
Why not learn the editor and do it yourself? If you're looking to take full credit for a map in exchange for a ton of money, I would rather make a map for credit thank you. At least I have a lasting impact on the community in exchange for my hard work. Too many sell their souls for money, I think that any reading this post should ask for full credit, don't sell your hard work for a couple bucks when you could have a stable job for your hard work instead.
@LaertesSC2: Go
@alexbis
I am not intending to sell the map, just to create a great map that anyone can play free. I don't think that the scope of what I am envisioning will be a great as what you mention. Certainly no voice acting, etc.
I think the complexity will be equal to some of the maps already out there - MoD, Risk Revulsion, Marine Arena, Footman Frenzy, DoTA
@Laertes
I don't have time or inclination learn the editor - I need a professional. I am also not trying to take credit for it - the developer will have their name on the map and will be able to boast about it!
it is exactly as you say, we do maps for fun. Is it fun if someone just tells you what to do? I think it will most likely just feel like a job if you do it at someone elses terms.
but if you get enough compensation, it still might become worth it to do stuff for someone else.
@zenx1: Go
As I said, the developer will have a great deal control of the project. I just have a few guidelines - a 'theme' to build the map around. But the actual game play, game dynamics, etc. will be up to them. There will be brainstorming for the best game/map concept for the theme, we wil create the game dynamics together, then the developer will build the map to specifications we come up with. I and several others would be fully involved in the project, just not the actual development portion (working in the editor).
I would go over the details of the project once I find some candidates, if they are not satisfied then of course we wouldn't work together. I believe this would be a really fun project, I suspect, and will be challenging and require a lot of creativity. But it will also be paid, an will require commitment to see the project through to the end.
Basically, for a great mapmaker, this would probably be the most fun job (real job - the type you can put on your resume) they ever had.
@MapSeeker: Go
Contact Mephs. If anyone thinks he has more dedication/exp/knowledge, I doubt so.
I'm not his fanboy though, I hate all of you cause that's my style bitches.
But seriously Seeker, PM him on the forums.
It depends on what you want, really. On one side, what I see here is someone who has a vision for a map but no mapping skills, looking for someone to make his vision come through.
On the other hand, he's offering payment, something that doesn't usually happen in our modding community - which leads me to believe that aside from quality, this man might also want to plump his name on the project. Or not - I'm actually kind of confused as to this. Regardless of how you put it, contrary to the believe of some here, you can easily have an 'unfair' divide of work on map, as long as you make sure the credits stay true. If the vision is yours but someone else made the whole map, just make the credits say "Vision: MapSeeker, Map realization: Mapper X".
That said, since your position is a bit akward, I reckon this is what you'll want to clarify to peak more interest; is it correct that you have a vision you want to see realized, and that you'd be willing to pay someone to create it? And that you'd want the credits to stay true to who has actually done what work?
You can't have a single developer working on a map and make it well-made, popular and regularly updated, especially as most mappers don't know how to model and have a specific part of mapping they specialise in (Eg, ProzaicMuze is an actor guy, Mozared is a terrainer, I am a trigger guy but with enough skill to data edit competently, zenx1 is a trigger/ data guy, Mephs is a good all-round mapper).
If you are wanting to pay someone to make a massive map with custom models, I would suggest firstly seeking out a freelance modeller to pay them for the models, and getting a data editor, trigger editor and terrainer. I would also suggest against this because at this point there is no way to upload really large maps with tons of assets or a way to get a profit.
@wOlfLisK: Go
why im always excluded :(, I do triggers and data too :(
@zenx1: Go
Happy now? ,':/
@MapSeeker: Go
wOlfisk does make a good point.
1. Shouldn't this be in the Team Recruitement forum?
2. You should know before you get into this that you're talking about a TON of money and may not get anything back.
3. Even the best maps rarely gain enough popularity to be played often. You could spend a ton of money, get the best game on B-net, and never, ever have somebody play it.
4. wOlfLisK, you forgot me as well! Im not really a heavyweight around here, but I have a devotion to mapping, spend tons of time on it and do just about everything. I made high rated custom models in Warcraft. In Starcraft I do data, triggers, custom assets, ui design, concept design, etc, etc; Basically, I only skip out on terrain and that's because I find terraining tedious, so I have no will to refine my skills in that area :P.
I think there are quite a few mappers that do everything, but it's rare to find somebody that's GOOD at everything...heck it's rare to find people that are good at ONE thing.
For a decent project you are looking in the low six figure mark @ supermarket wages ($22/h) for a two person team of Trigger+Data to Tofu/Smashcraft level of polishing with custom art, excluding models, with IP rights retained by the authors and with a very basic licence included.
That would be roughly about 8 months work - I discussed this with Mephs for curiosity sakes and we came to the same price range. This is also just at a supermarket wage level - not necessarily a price the people you would want on the project would accept.
(And yes, supermarkets in Australia pay $22/h $25US, but before you QQ our cost of living is sky high compared to the USA).
Just to put it in perspective.
Moved this to Team Recruitment :)