I also find it interesting that people on the forums claim to be devout christians yet they enjoy playing blizzard games that have to do with murder, mayhem, and occultism. :D
I say believe whatever you want. You will find out who is right in the end. There is no sense in arguing with others over these matters.
I have been indoctrinated in believing in a Christian God like everything else. The way I see it existence had to be set into motion by intelligent design and not randomly regardless of the thousands of different religious beliefs on our planet and dogma created by men.
you just showed that you are ignorant of the world, The wars aren't over religion, its Corrupt people, that use religion to infuriate people, the same is done with Racism, sexism, and Nationalism.
Thats rich assholes holding those wars, you never heard of a poor man starting a war...
Its not religion, its idiots... Though religion is used against people.
I also find it interesting that people on the forums claim to be devout christians yet they enjoy playing blizzard games that have to do with murder, mayhem, and occultism. :D
I say believe whatever you want. You will find out who is right in the end. There is no sense in arguing with others over these matters.
I have been indoctrinated in believing in a Christian God like everything else. The way I see it existence had to be set into motion by intelligent design and not randomly regardless of the thousands of different religious beliefs on our planet and dogma created by men.
Point 1: I'm not sure anyone's claimed to be a "devout Christian."
Point 2: The murder/mayhem/occultism is fictional
Point 3: Playing the game doesn't necessarily mean the player loves murder/mayhem/occultism
Point 4: It's not a sin to play a video game (for most of Christianity.)
Not everyone who is Christian has been indoctrinated to be so. There is such a thing as a willing convert, and they aren't mindless zombies. Furthermore, it's a false assumption to claim that anyone who has been born into a Christian faith is strictly indoctrinated and never questions or owns his beliefs. This would be like me saying all atheists are selfish fornicators, liars, cheats, and all-around jerks. Point being, stereotyping either side is stupid because each person has his own unique perspective on the supernatural. Engaging in stereotyping adds nothing to the conversation and creates big emotional pissing matches (like what we've already seen.)
Also, wisp does have a point. Bad people can use religion to manipulate good people into doing bad things. I won't really comment on Islam since I'm no expert, but in Christianity war is unacceptable unless it meets certain very restrictive requirements:
"The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good."
When Christians violate these conditions by engaging in an unjust war, they commit sin. This applies to popes, too.
Also, wisp does have a point. Bad people can use religion to manipulate good people into doing bad things. I won't really comment on Islam since I'm no expert, but in Christianity war is unacceptable unless it meets certain very restrictive requirements:
Religion creates a mindset that allows you to believe you are right.
Entertainingly, most (but not all) religions are mutually exclusive. Islam and Christianity, despite believing in the same god, are very exclusive.
So we have 2 groups of people who both believe they are right about mutually exclusive events.
Religion creates a mindset that allows you to believe you are right.
Most people already have the mindset that they are right. Moral relativism (a very modern construct of philosophy) can be nothing more than a curiosity because of its inherent flaws - namely, that it cannot sustain itself. Most relativists simply ignore the implications of their own philosophy... basically, it is not a mature and sustainable concept.
Two people who have irreconcilable beliefs don't necessarily have to start killing each other. Atheists and theists, for example.
That's nice and all, but history does not agree with you. Even in modern times, I think we both know what the last words of the 911 hijackers were.
I disagree that this is an example of moral relativism. We aren't talking about morals here, we're talking about who's god is right, or in modern times, who's way of serving that same god is right.
Sunni/Shia Islam
Protestant/Catholic Christianity
The birth of Pakistan
Now, of course, stupid stuff happens without religion's hand, but the question is how much of this has religion contributed to?
I'm not making any commentary on history. People fight wars for all manner of reasons. Religion is just another one of those reasons. That doesn't mean religion supports or encourages unjust warfare. I know from personal experience that clergymen don't go around saying "and make sure you kill that Muslim down the street before next Sunday or you'll have God to answer to."
Your presumption seems to be that religion is inherently bad. You attempt to support this by citing famous wars throughout history in which religion played a major role. Yet you made no commentary on 1, whether those wars were just, 2, whether the tenets of the religions involved actively supported an unjust war, 3, what portion of all religions throughout history are represented by said involved religions, and 4, whether the leaders of the involved religions were acting in a way which was faithful to the tenets of their respective religions. I have yet to see conclusive information regarding a positive correlation between religious belief and the "bad" behavior of individuals, isolated from other significant factors.
No shit they were in on the plan. Doesn't mean that the plan wasn't by the terrorists.
It's a shame to see more conspiracy theorists who don't understand how towers like this are built and thus cannot draw correct conclusions about how they fall and explode and such.
Ahh the violence isn't real argument.... So if it isn't real it doesn't count... :D so if you watch animated porn/hentai it's alright but if it's porn between two people it's okay.
Also I never said everyone was indoctrinated but most individuals follow religions based on the fact it was the religion of their parents. And your other points are pretty much correct... The pope is guilty of sin... remember the pope is Catholic... he isn't the ruler over all of christianity because their are hundreds of different versions of christianity that follow different dogma. I mean seriously the pope supported Hitler instead of condemning him (before the Germans lost the war) Their are man men who twist and pervert the religion of Christianity to fit their own designs. Now I am not going to go off on a religious rant but to clarify things... I believe in intelligent design and order to the universe with a master creator that can be referred to as God to human beings. I understand that nobody is perfect but ask yourself this. If Jesus was in the room with you while you were on the computer playing Starcraft, what do you think he would say. Sorry but if you love starcraft... your a lover of violence and there is a verse someone in the Bible saying that lovers of violence not inheriting his kingdom. And don't be smug of course their is nothing specifically in the Bible that condemns playing violent video games...but their are guidelines regarding entertainment. I'm pretty sure a few individuals that loved and attended the collesium games in which Christians were slaughtered for sport, may have never killed anybody... but I'm pretty sure it wasn't cool with god....
We to clarify what I was saying... with individuals have a sense of morals... what is right and what is wrong... the world would be in even more chaos. I mean people murdering people without consequence. Men and woman being violated without consequence. Religion serves several purposes. Sure a lot of wars have been declared based off of religion; but religion has been used to create social order and to control the masses even up to this day. Many laws that are created today are created based of moral codes originally developed through the practice of religion.
:D that's how I could make that statement and say that without religion their would be more violence "THEN THERE ALREADY IS".
We to clarify what I was saying... with individuals have a sense of morals... what is right and what is wrong... the world would be in even more chaos. I mean people murdering people without consequence. Men and woman being violated without consequence. Religion serves several purposes. Sure a lot of wars have been declared based off of religion; but religion has been used to create social order and to control the masses even up to this day. Many laws that are created today are created based of moral codes originally developed through the practice of religion.
:D that's how I could make that statement and say that without religion their would be more violence "THEN THERE ALREADY IS".
That is unfounded bullshit.
Even piranhas don't murder eachother.
Your moral compass has existed for millions of years before Yahweh was even a word.
Besides, I'd love to see you spin "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" into something positive.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
That's actually not Family Guy, that's a separate cartoon made by the same person.
I also find it interesting that people on the forums claim to be devout christians yet they enjoy playing blizzard games that have to do with murder, mayhem, and occultism. :D
I say believe whatever you want. You will find out who is right in the end. There is no sense in arguing with others over these matters.
I have been indoctrinated in believing in a Christian God like everything else. The way I see it existence had to be set into motion by intelligent design and not randomly regardless of the thousands of different religious beliefs on our planet and dogma created by men.
@michaelknives: Go
That, I would say, is one of the few reasonable and respectable theistic positions. If I recall correctly, that position is known as deism.
How on earth do you reach that conclusion when nigh 99% of all wars were over religion?
@Eiviyn: Go
you just showed that you are ignorant of the world, The wars aren't over religion, its Corrupt people, that use religion to infuriate people, the same is done with Racism, sexism, and Nationalism.
Thats rich assholes holding those wars, you never heard of a poor man starting a war...
Its not religion, its idiots... Though religion is used against people.
If you say so.
Point 1: I'm not sure anyone's claimed to be a "devout Christian."
Point 2: The murder/mayhem/occultism is fictional
Point 3: Playing the game doesn't necessarily mean the player loves murder/mayhem/occultism
Point 4: It's not a sin to play a video game (for most of Christianity.)
Not everyone who is Christian has been indoctrinated to be so. There is such a thing as a willing convert, and they aren't mindless zombies. Furthermore, it's a false assumption to claim that anyone who has been born into a Christian faith is strictly indoctrinated and never questions or owns his beliefs. This would be like me saying all atheists are selfish fornicators, liars, cheats, and all-around jerks. Point being, stereotyping either side is stupid because each person has his own unique perspective on the supernatural. Engaging in stereotyping adds nothing to the conversation and creates big emotional pissing matches (like what we've already seen.)
Also, wisp does have a point. Bad people can use religion to manipulate good people into doing bad things. I won't really comment on Islam since I'm no expert, but in Christianity war is unacceptable unless it meets certain very restrictive requirements:
"The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time: the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain; all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective; there must be serious prospects of success; the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition. These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good."
When Christians violate these conditions by engaging in an unjust war, they commit sin. This applies to popes, too.
Religion creates a mindset that allows you to believe you are right.
Entertainingly, most (but not all) religions are mutually exclusive. Islam and Christianity, despite believing in the same god, are very exclusive.
So we have 2 groups of people who both believe they are right about mutually exclusive events.
Not really a recipe for peace.
Most people already have the mindset that they are right. Moral relativism (a very modern construct of philosophy) can be nothing more than a curiosity because of its inherent flaws - namely, that it cannot sustain itself. Most relativists simply ignore the implications of their own philosophy... basically, it is not a mature and sustainable concept.
Two people who have irreconcilable beliefs don't necessarily have to start killing each other. Atheists and theists, for example.
@BasharTeg: Go
Religion can provide excuses for being evil.
@BasharTeg: Go
That's nice and all, but history does not agree with you. Even in modern times, I think we both know what the last words of the 911 hijackers were.
I disagree that this is an example of moral relativism. We aren't talking about morals here, we're talking about who's god is right, or in modern times, who's way of serving that same god is right.
Sunni/Shia Islam
Protestant/Catholic Christianity
The birth of Pakistan
Now, of course, stupid stuff happens without religion's hand, but the question is how much of this has religion contributed to?
@Nebuli2: Go
Religion provides no excuses. That's what sinful people do. Religion is a way of life, not a politician.
@Eiviyn: Go
I'm not making any commentary on history. People fight wars for all manner of reasons. Religion is just another one of those reasons. That doesn't mean religion supports or encourages unjust warfare. I know from personal experience that clergymen don't go around saying "and make sure you kill that Muslim down the street before next Sunday or you'll have God to answer to."
Your presumption seems to be that religion is inherently bad. You attempt to support this by citing famous wars throughout history in which religion played a major role. Yet you made no commentary on 1, whether those wars were just, 2, whether the tenets of the religions involved actively supported an unjust war, 3, what portion of all religions throughout history are represented by said involved religions, and 4, whether the leaders of the involved religions were acting in a way which was faithful to the tenets of their respective religions. I have yet to see conclusive information regarding a positive correlation between religious belief and the "bad" behavior of individuals, isolated from other significant factors.
Sorry to inform you but the towers were detonated. The plane and the guys and thus the words were part of the plan.
That particular "truth" has been debunked thousands of times over.
@Nerfpl: Go
No shit they were in on the plan. Doesn't mean that the plan wasn't by the terrorists.
It's a shame to see more conspiracy theorists who don't understand how towers like this are built and thus cannot draw correct conclusions about how they fall and explode and such.
@BasharTeg: Go
Ahh the violence isn't real argument.... So if it isn't real it doesn't count... :D so if you watch animated porn/hentai it's alright but if it's porn between two people it's okay.
Also I never said everyone was indoctrinated but most individuals follow religions based on the fact it was the religion of their parents. And your other points are pretty much correct... The pope is guilty of sin... remember the pope is Catholic... he isn't the ruler over all of christianity because their are hundreds of different versions of christianity that follow different dogma. I mean seriously the pope supported Hitler instead of condemning him (before the Germans lost the war) Their are man men who twist and pervert the religion of Christianity to fit their own designs. Now I am not going to go off on a religious rant but to clarify things... I believe in intelligent design and order to the universe with a master creator that can be referred to as God to human beings. I understand that nobody is perfect but ask yourself this. If Jesus was in the room with you while you were on the computer playing Starcraft, what do you think he would say. Sorry but if you love starcraft... your a lover of violence and there is a verse someone in the Bible saying that lovers of violence not inheriting his kingdom. And don't be smug of course their is nothing specifically in the Bible that condemns playing violent video games...but their are guidelines regarding entertainment. I'm pretty sure a few individuals that loved and attended the collesium games in which Christians were slaughtered for sport, may have never killed anybody... but I'm pretty sure it wasn't cool with god....
Okay I am ending my rant now :p
@Eiviyn: Go
We to clarify what I was saying... with individuals have a sense of morals... what is right and what is wrong... the world would be in even more chaos. I mean people murdering people without consequence. Men and woman being violated without consequence. Religion serves several purposes. Sure a lot of wars have been declared based off of religion; but religion has been used to create social order and to control the masses even up to this day. Many laws that are created today are created based of moral codes originally developed through the practice of religion.
:D that's how I could make that statement and say that without religion their would be more violence "THEN THERE ALREADY IS".
@RodrigoAlves: Go
LMAO... hey did you hear about that magic baby that was born in Bethlahem.... XD Bwahhh hahaha i'm weak right now
That is unfounded bullshit.
Even piranhas don't murder eachother.
Your moral compass has existed for millions of years before Yahweh was even a word.
Besides, I'd love to see you spin "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" into something positive.