He wont be on the Diablo 3 project anymore, but moving toward other dev areas @ Blizzard.
Hopefully this can only mean good things for the Diablo series.(which..they ruined)
Aww, well, if anything, Diablo 3 taught me a valuable lesson about blind faith, pre-purchasing and refusing to believe what is right in front of my eyes, for which I'm grateful. Go onward Jay, teaching future generations these valuable lessons!
Aww, well, if anything, Diablo 3 taught me a valuable lesson about blind faith, pre-purchasing and refusing to believe what is right in front of my eyes, for which I'm grateful. Go onward Jay, teaching future generations these valuable lessons!
Exactly this. No way I will ever do the same mistake again.
I personally enjoyed clearing normal 5 times, nightmare 5 times, hell 5 times, and clearing the same act a thousand times in inferno...and not having any PvP ruined D3. It was incredibly fun when I played it at Blizzcon and for it to not be in the game on release AND STILL NOT IN THE GAME is a serious disappointment. He had to go, he has no sight for the future and stuck to a design model that is what? 12 years old?
Eh I had fun till I hit lvl 60, then I was Bored, and wtf kinda number is that to max out on.... 60... why not 99 or 255 both of those make much much more sense
Yea, that's thing. I had fun doing it 1 time. The other 4 times was painful. That's the thing, the game is suppose to be the most fun at max level, and it wasn't.
I never understood the rage about Diablo 3. All I hear is people crying how bad it is. I've yet to hear a single compelling argument for that position that doesn't also hold true for Diablo 2 (which was apparently 'teh best thing eva').
Not saying it's brilliant, the rage just seems drawn out of proportion.
Personally I thought D1 > D2, I thought It was a bad Idea to make a dungeon crawler out side of dungeons.
I personally didnt like D2 that much, but the biggest difference is
D3 looks like a Saturday morning cartoon(they should have made it look more like starcraft actually. texture wise and such) and D2 didn't( though it did look crappier then Diablo 1 which had the perfect look),
The real problem is though, D2 was created in 2000, D3 is a Remade D2 with a lame story,(diablo 2s story was non existent almost and therefore cannot be lame the cut scenes had nothing to do with the character you were playing) Diablo 3 literally, took the majority of the game, and just monetized and casualized it. its made for children, its non challenging, nothing i different beyond a few numbers, and any idiot can play it and be OP(the REAL reason they have been having trouble adding PVP is because the spells are pretty boring and the majority of them are only made to fight off mass amounts of enemies, there is very few single hit spells.
I agree with Diablo 2 not beeing the best game ever. I personally hate baalruns and I don't see what's fun in that besides that they give the best item reward probability. It's always pretty much the same and encouraged playing a Sorceress to teleport through the levels. (Being able to teleport a lot on the other hand can be incredibly fun because it makes you feel fast and OP.)
D3 did an awesome job with encouraging fights versus rare monsters with random affixes. I can't imagine something better right now. The only thing they should do later on would be reusing some of their boss-monsters to appear as super rare random monster packs like the D2 world event with Diablo walking on earth (I think) with a random twist just like the current rare monsters.
Well, these are a few holes or things that I don't like that I see in D3 that I can think of within minutes:
- D3 has less random dungeons, so it really looks the same every playthrough. D3's terrain looks fantastic, if you accept the art style it was made in. D2 had more randomness in the areas.
I don't think they can fix it in the existing areas within D3. I believe they designed it this way to make it easier for the art team doing landscapes, making dungeons appear with epic wall decorations and making the loading time faster because your CPU doesn't need to calculate as much as D2's areas when created. But it dumped down the dungeon layout as it makes every area appear the same every playthrough.
Also, I would have added different color styles/texture variations for the dungeons. This is something I still want to add into my map and that is something I saw in D1 mods. It makes areas appear a bit different as it slightly changes the impression every playthrough. So the whole dungeon appears more yellow, more brown, more blue,more white, more gray, ...
It doesn't need to look like the work of an artist in every playthrough as it only needs to add differences to the dungeons. You could make it appear as the artists wants it to look like during the first playthrough, but it needs more changes for the further playthroughs.
- Random monster appearances in the areas. Right now, every area has monster X and Y and Z... every time. They should mix it around, at least in higher difficulties. D1 used this randomness and D2 added that in the 5th act with guest monsters (this was awesome!).
In D3 they are using tables with strength percentages, so that system basically is perfect for something like that as you might only need to add a factor of openness in the area to make a few monsters weaker or stronger is some areas to balance them because they don't fit in area Y.
Also, you can't put every monster they created into every dungeon because they created a few monsters with huge sizes.
- I don't think that skilltrees are awesome because they will always contain a lot of skills you get for the sake of getting them. But there needs to be something in the game that you need to plan, something people can theorize about. Basically, everyone that wrote a guide on the countless D2 sites loved this I believe. PoE implemented that not with skills (it has no skilltree in sense of D2), but with a combination of D2's passive skills and character points while skills come from interchangeable gems that you can combine.
This added another aspect to the items that need to roll good for the perfect item (which is required in games that support player-player-trading), created something for players to require planning, allowed classes to be able to use every skill and even combine aspects of the skill.
- D3 didn't have a real crafting ability. PoE added items that can improve/reroll items (this idea existed in diablo 1 hellfire already). D2 had a few things doable via cube receipts. During their alpha they had the mystic artisan, but it only added a random extra affix to the item.
- Also, I think they should add new affixes. For example, items that have affixes that improve it over time within a big time span for the endgame items. So you need to equip it and play with it a long time and then it slowly becomes better and has the potential to become better than the best item that you can equip.
For example, an armor that gathers spirit points that slowly raise the defense value of the item. It's like paragon levels for items. So the best items would be these that you need to put time into. Trading the item would lower the item's progress by 25% for example, so you can't just buy the best item possible (pay 2 win), but you can buy the potentially best item possible, if you put time into it. Of course that item shouldn't max out within 3 days worth of game time.
D3 looks like a Saturday morning cartoon(they should have made it look more like starcraft actually. texture wise and such) and D2 didn't( though it did look crappier then Diablo 1 which had the perfect look),
Scumbag Diablo 3 fan: "I don't like the game's art style. Seems like a legit reason to call the entire game bad and claim that the entire company has lowered its standards!"
The real problem is though, D2 was created in 2000, D3 is a Remade D2 with a lame story,(diablo 2s story was non existent almost and therefore cannot be lame the cut scenes had nothing to do with the character you were playing) Diablo 3 literally, took the majority of the game, and just monetized and casualized it. its made for children, its non challenging, nothing i different beyond a few numbers, and any idiot can play it and be OP
I've hated this argument ever since it was first coined in the WoW days. And it applies to Diablo even less than it does to WoW. If you're looking for a challenge, you're playing the wrong game. Diablo 2 literally had the exact same problem and nobody seemed to care about it there. Get yourself a shooter, an arena-style map or a competitive strategy game if you want a challenge. Complaining about a lack of challenge in Diablo 3 is like being angry that everybody can learn to read. That isn't the point of the game. The ENTIRE SET-UP of the game is done in such a way that EVERYBODY can attain every goal as long as they invest enough time. This is true for ANY kind of game where you can buy/find gear upgrades. You don't GET to complain about that.
This is exactly what I mean. Everytime I hear complains about Diablo 3 and pop my above question the answers I get are either highly biased stuff like "I don't like the art style" or complete non-arguments. Ahli went over some points, but all of that is either biased, a simple suggestion or a small problem. Nothing in this thread so far makes Diablo 3 deserve the rage the game is getting. I still think the biggest problem is the audience, which nowadays seems to exist mostly out whiny bitches with really strong nostalgia glasses.
in 2000 there was nothing like as good as d2, it was just amazing. (a whole 13 yearsa go remember). On a side note I could join channels with starcraft and warcraft friends, we'd all talk and switch over games there were 100's of us. I could even do the same on all the realms. No other games came close.
actually that whole reply went off topic soon as I said the biggest differences :P I was thinking 1 thing and typing another as I thought them up :P
What I had originally ment to say, while A it is still WAY too cartoonish, I was going to say that Diablo 2 worked BECAUSE it was made in 2000, but that better business models now exist, and its just out of date, Pretty much that's how Diablo 3 feels to me anyways, just an out of date game. it feels like it was made in 2000. make a little more sense. It feels as if there was no innovation really in Diablo 3, it was Copy/Paste "what worked in the past" throw a real money AH, and profit.
The main thing I personally had a problem with was the Tech Tree, I didn't like how you just switch and switch and switch spells, I thought that removed some of the Depth in the game. but thats a personal thing for me and not a reason why I didn't think it was amazing or anything, it was a good game, but it just felt like it was outdated,
Then there's my beef with the acts... Besides Act 4 but not really, ALL of the acts felt like carbon copies of Diablo 2, Act 1 = Act 1, Act 2 = Act 2 , act 3 = act 5, and act 4 = 4 but re-textured to be heaven (like I said not really the same but if you look at the paths and such, its VERY similar in a lot of ways)
Then there's the problem with lack of new Monsters to fight, there were a few new monsters but for the most part it was just Diablo 2 monsters
Then there's the cut-scenes/bosses, let me say I LOVED Act 1's bosses all of them, they were amazing Act 2 boss was awesome but I didn't think it fit the series very well, and its cut-scene was great. but then there's act 3 and act 4. Azmodin felt like a pussy, he felt like blizzard was thinking "If we make him larger he will feel boss like" and while in SOME cases that's true it just didn't work here, he felt just like a mini boss, King Leoric felt much closer to a boss. and once you hit Act 3's end cut-scene its just a huge drop action and story, And then there's act 4, where Diablo looks like an anemic woman version, and the cut-scene they just throw him off a cliff like he was no big deal. not to mention the fight was a total Tank and spank for the most part, besides some minor dodging.
Like I said even with the bosses, these things were amazing in 2000, but are they really that great in this day and age better bosses/Boss fights could have been created defiantly. For me the best bosses were, King Leoric, The Butcher, and Izual The rest felt pretty flat and 1 dimensional.
these are all opinion based though, so don't read too much into them its just what I felt was wrong with it.
Also I still pretty much have to agree with my pointless ramble.
I had some hours of fun playing the beta... clicking non-stop to make my monk attack, then I killed the skeleton king... I didn't pay for it and I knew I wouldn't... lucky me!
:P I liked the beta, and I knew what I was buying, so I obviously dont regret owning the game, its still a decent game, it just came out with feeling aged.
Ahli went over some points, but all of that is either biased, a simple suggestion or a small problem. Nothing in this thread so far makes Diablo 3 deserve the rage the game is getting. I still think the biggest problem is the audience, which nowadays seems to exist mostly out whiny bitches with really strong nostalgia glasses.
Yes, all gaming communities might be more whiny than they might have been 10 years ago.
For my part, I don't hate D3, I just don't like a few aspects in it. I, for myself, like to analyze the existing things and try to maintain the best aspects. If I should have designed a D3, I would start with making a list of points of all aspects of the game to see what they were good at, what the game defined and what you can improve.
Also, I don't hate Jay Wilson. He is a human and I guess he has great skills, but the community is cruel, sadly.
It's the same with battle.net. I can see that they improved the weak points (players playing old versions), but not working on the strengths.
I might be effected by what I've learned about management and processes.
That might hinder innovations, but a sequel of a game shouldn't be about huge innovations anyway. A sequel is a sequel. Adding and expanding is fine, but changing it too much is dangerous for a sequel. That's why they should rely on the best things as a base and improve it.
But, in general I'm excited what they will do for the addons and I'm excited to see how another person will do in that job. But I think they won't find someone that wants to do it in near future because the community is hate infested and there will be tears in any way...
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592242994#1
He wont be on the Diablo 3 project anymore, but moving toward other dev areas @ Blizzard.
Hopefully this can only mean good things for the Diablo series.(which..they ruined)
That is good news!
Aww, well, if anything, Diablo 3 taught me a valuable lesson about blind faith, pre-purchasing and refusing to believe what is right in front of my eyes, for which I'm grateful. Go onward Jay, teaching future generations these valuable lessons!
Played the game one week, got bored, moved on.
Maybe in the future d3 will change for the better.
Exactly this. No way I will ever do the same mistake again.
The scapegoat has been singled out and punished. Now all will be sunshine and puppies.
He was a game director only a few elite stood above him, it is his fault the game was the way it was...
I can think of a few other popular Game Directors that I would love to see get demoted, I hope blizzard didnt put him on freaking Titan though.
I personally enjoyed clearing normal 5 times, nightmare 5 times, hell 5 times, and clearing the same act a thousand times in inferno...and not having any PvP ruined D3. It was incredibly fun when I played it at Blizzcon and for it to not be in the game on release AND STILL NOT IN THE GAME is a serious disappointment. He had to go, he has no sight for the future and stuck to a design model that is what? 12 years old?
@Daara87: Go
Eh I had fun till I hit lvl 60, then I was Bored, and wtf kinda number is that to max out on.... 60... why not 99 or 255 both of those make much much more sense
@Taintedwisp: Go
Yea, that's thing. I had fun doing it 1 time. The other 4 times was painful. That's the thing, the game is suppose to be the most fun at max level, and it wasn't.
I never understood the rage about Diablo 3. All I hear is people crying how bad it is. I've yet to hear a single compelling argument for that position that doesn't also hold true for Diablo 2 (which was apparently 'teh best thing eva').
Not saying it's brilliant, the rage just seems drawn out of proportion.
<- never played D3, can't believe it's not cool
@Mozared: Go
Personally I thought D1 > D2, I thought It was a bad Idea to make a dungeon crawler out side of dungeons.
I personally didnt like D2 that much, but the biggest difference is
D3 looks like a Saturday morning cartoon(they should have made it look more like starcraft actually. texture wise and such) and D2 didn't( though it did look crappier then Diablo 1 which had the perfect look),
The real problem is though, D2 was created in 2000, D3 is a Remade D2 with a lame story,(diablo 2s story was non existent almost and therefore cannot be lame the cut scenes had nothing to do with the character you were playing) Diablo 3 literally, took the majority of the game, and just monetized and casualized it. its made for children, its non challenging, nothing i different beyond a few numbers, and any idiot can play it and be OP(the REAL reason they have been having trouble adding PVP is because the spells are pretty boring and the majority of them are only made to fight off mass amounts of enemies, there is very few single hit spells.
I agree with Diablo 2 not beeing the best game ever. I personally hate baalruns and I don't see what's fun in that besides that they give the best item reward probability. It's always pretty much the same and encouraged playing a Sorceress to teleport through the levels. (Being able to teleport a lot on the other hand can be incredibly fun because it makes you feel fast and OP.)
D3 did an awesome job with encouraging fights versus rare monsters with random affixes. I can't imagine something better right now. The only thing they should do later on would be reusing some of their boss-monsters to appear as super rare random monster packs like the D2 world event with Diablo walking on earth (I think) with a random twist just like the current rare monsters.
Well, these are a few holes or things that I don't like that I see in D3 that I can think of within minutes:
- D3 has less random dungeons, so it really looks the same every playthrough. D3's terrain looks fantastic, if you accept the art style it was made in. D2 had more randomness in the areas.
I don't think they can fix it in the existing areas within D3. I believe they designed it this way to make it easier for the art team doing landscapes, making dungeons appear with epic wall decorations and making the loading time faster because your CPU doesn't need to calculate as much as D2's areas when created. But it dumped down the dungeon layout as it makes every area appear the same every playthrough.
Also, I would have added different color styles/texture variations for the dungeons. This is something I still want to add into my map and that is something I saw in D1 mods. It makes areas appear a bit different as it slightly changes the impression every playthrough. So the whole dungeon appears more yellow, more brown, more blue,more white, more gray, ...
It doesn't need to look like the work of an artist in every playthrough as it only needs to add differences to the dungeons. You could make it appear as the artists wants it to look like during the first playthrough, but it needs more changes for the further playthroughs.
- Random monster appearances in the areas. Right now, every area has monster X and Y and Z... every time. They should mix it around, at least in higher difficulties. D1 used this randomness and D2 added that in the 5th act with guest monsters (this was awesome!).
In D3 they are using tables with strength percentages, so that system basically is perfect for something like that as you might only need to add a factor of openness in the area to make a few monsters weaker or stronger is some areas to balance them because they don't fit in area Y.
Also, you can't put every monster they created into every dungeon because they created a few monsters with huge sizes.
- I don't think that skilltrees are awesome because they will always contain a lot of skills you get for the sake of getting them. But there needs to be something in the game that you need to plan, something people can theorize about. Basically, everyone that wrote a guide on the countless D2 sites loved this I believe. PoE implemented that not with skills (it has no skilltree in sense of D2), but with a combination of D2's passive skills and character points while skills come from interchangeable gems that you can combine.
This added another aspect to the items that need to roll good for the perfect item (which is required in games that support player-player-trading), created something for players to require planning, allowed classes to be able to use every skill and even combine aspects of the skill.
- D3 didn't have a real crafting ability. PoE added items that can improve/reroll items (this idea existed in diablo 1 hellfire already). D2 had a few things doable via cube receipts. During their alpha they had the mystic artisan, but it only added a random extra affix to the item.
- Also, I think they should add new affixes. For example, items that have affixes that improve it over time within a big time span for the endgame items. So you need to equip it and play with it a long time and then it slowly becomes better and has the potential to become better than the best item that you can equip.
For example, an armor that gathers spirit points that slowly raise the defense value of the item. It's like paragon levels for items. So the best items would be these that you need to put time into. Trading the item would lower the item's progress by 25% for example, so you can't just buy the best item possible (pay 2 win), but you can buy the potentially best item possible, if you put time into it. Of course that item shouldn't max out within 3 days worth of game time.
Ok, so let's take a look at TaintedWisp's post.
Scumbag Diablo 3 fan: "I don't like the game's art style. Seems like a legit reason to call the entire game bad and claim that the entire company has lowered its standards!"
I've hated this argument ever since it was first coined in the WoW days. And it applies to Diablo even less than it does to WoW. If you're looking for a challenge, you're playing the wrong game. Diablo 2 literally had the exact same problem and nobody seemed to care about it there. Get yourself a shooter, an arena-style map or a competitive strategy game if you want a challenge. Complaining about a lack of challenge in Diablo 3 is like being angry that everybody can learn to read. That isn't the point of the game. The ENTIRE SET-UP of the game is done in such a way that EVERYBODY can attain every goal as long as they invest enough time. This is true for ANY kind of game where you can buy/find gear upgrades. You don't GET to complain about that.
This is exactly what I mean. Everytime I hear complains about Diablo 3 and pop my above question the answers I get are either highly biased stuff like "I don't like the art style" or complete non-arguments. Ahli went over some points, but all of that is either biased, a simple suggestion or a small problem. Nothing in this thread so far makes Diablo 3 deserve the rage the game is getting. I still think the biggest problem is the audience, which nowadays seems to exist mostly out whiny bitches with really strong nostalgia glasses.
@Moz you have to take into account the 'era's'
in 2000 there was nothing like as good as d2, it was just amazing. (a whole 13 yearsa go remember). On a side note I could join channels with starcraft and warcraft friends, we'd all talk and switch over games there were 100's of us. I could even do the same on all the realms. No other games came close.
@Mozared: Go
actually that whole reply went off topic soon as I said the biggest differences :P I was thinking 1 thing and typing another as I thought them up :P
What I had originally ment to say, while A it is still WAY too cartoonish, I was going to say that Diablo 2 worked BECAUSE it was made in 2000, but that better business models now exist, and its just out of date, Pretty much that's how Diablo 3 feels to me anyways, just an out of date game. it feels like it was made in 2000. make a little more sense. It feels as if there was no innovation really in Diablo 3, it was Copy/Paste "what worked in the past" throw a real money AH, and profit.
The main thing I personally had a problem with was the Tech Tree, I didn't like how you just switch and switch and switch spells, I thought that removed some of the Depth in the game. but thats a personal thing for me and not a reason why I didn't think it was amazing or anything, it was a good game, but it just felt like it was outdated,
Then there's my beef with the acts... Besides Act 4 but not really, ALL of the acts felt like carbon copies of Diablo 2, Act 1 = Act 1, Act 2 = Act 2 , act 3 = act 5, and act 4 = 4 but re-textured to be heaven (like I said not really the same but if you look at the paths and such, its VERY similar in a lot of ways) Then there's the problem with lack of new Monsters to fight, there were a few new monsters but for the most part it was just Diablo 2 monsters
Then there's the cut-scenes/bosses, let me say I LOVED Act 1's bosses all of them, they were amazing Act 2 boss was awesome but I didn't think it fit the series very well, and its cut-scene was great. but then there's act 3 and act 4. Azmodin felt like a pussy, he felt like blizzard was thinking "If we make him larger he will feel boss like" and while in SOME cases that's true it just didn't work here, he felt just like a mini boss, King Leoric felt much closer to a boss. and once you hit Act 3's end cut-scene its just a huge drop action and story, And then there's act 4, where Diablo looks like an anemic woman version, and the cut-scene they just throw him off a cliff like he was no big deal. not to mention the fight was a total Tank and spank for the most part, besides some minor dodging.
Like I said even with the bosses, these things were amazing in 2000, but are they really that great in this day and age better bosses/Boss fights could have been created defiantly. For me the best bosses were, King Leoric, The Butcher, and Izual The rest felt pretty flat and 1 dimensional.
these are all opinion based though, so don't read too much into them its just what I felt was wrong with it.
Also I still pretty much have to agree with my pointless ramble.
I had some hours of fun playing the beta... clicking non-stop to make my monk attack, then I killed the skeleton king... I didn't pay for it and I knew I wouldn't... lucky me!
@SoulFilcher: Go
:P I liked the beta, and I knew what I was buying, so I obviously dont regret owning the game, its still a decent game, it just came out with feeling aged.
Yes, all gaming communities might be more whiny than they might have been 10 years ago.
For my part, I don't hate D3, I just don't like a few aspects in it. I, for myself, like to analyze the existing things and try to maintain the best aspects. If I should have designed a D3, I would start with making a list of points of all aspects of the game to see what they were good at, what the game defined and what you can improve.
Also, I don't hate Jay Wilson. He is a human and I guess he has great skills, but the community is cruel, sadly.
It's the same with battle.net. I can see that they improved the weak points (players playing old versions), but not working on the strengths.
I might be effected by what I've learned about management and processes.
That might hinder innovations, but a sequel of a game shouldn't be about huge innovations anyway. A sequel is a sequel. Adding and expanding is fine, but changing it too much is dangerous for a sequel. That's why they should rely on the best things as a base and improve it.
But, in general I'm excited what they will do for the addons and I'm excited to see how another person will do in that job. But I think they won't find someone that wants to do it in near future because the community is hate infested and there will be tears in any way...