There was a thread on the spoiler button about 2 years ago, but unforunately there was a security issue with the "markdown" markup type which caused it to be temporarily removed, and then added back in a very restricted way, which I believe makes it impossible to use those spoiler buttons for regular users now - I have to use RawHTML if I want to use them (Only available to moderators)
I wouldn't say the late game is air focused, but that the new stuff is. Stargate play is just becoming more viable as a main tech choice, but you can still just go robo for the deathball. Honestily, if they had added new units to either the gateway or robotics facility, the stargate would be used even less than it is now. Same thing with Zerg - They added the Viper and the Hydra speed upgrade to the Hive, which encourages earlier hive tech. As for terran... Well, I think bio is overused, so they just shouldn't add units to the rax, but giving another one to the starport instead of factory would probably be nice (that way each race gets at least one new air unit. But then again, terran already has 5 air units to begin with)
If i wasnt a mapper, I wouldnt be buying this expansion, at least as it is now, for 40$ this seems empty compared to the other expansions they have came out with.
I agree, I'm still blown away by how much content was pushed into The Frozen Throne when we got it. Released about 6 months after Warcraft 3, and it almost doubled the amount of units in the game including a fully playable new race in the singleplayer (Illidan's Naga army). Here we're looking at 2 years after SC2 and the expansion isn't close to done yet.
Still, there will be a lot of new content in singleplayer that we haven't seen yet that I'm definitely looking forward to.
I agree, I'm still blown away by how much content was pushed into The Frozen Throne when we got it. Released about 6 months after Warcraft 3, and it almost doubled the amount of units in the game including a fully playable new race in the singleplayer (Illidan's Naga army). Here we're looking at 2 years after SC2 and the expansion isn't close to done yet.
Still, there will be a lot of new content in singleplayer that we haven't seen yet that I'm definitely looking forward to.
Pretty sure TFT was released exactly a year, to the day, after WC3...
If i wasnt a mapper, I wouldnt be buying this expansion, at least as it is now, for 40$ this seems empty compared to the other expansions they have came out with.
Dont forget all of the units, doodads, tilesets, features etc. that has not been revealed yet.
Keep in mind that WC3 models were a lot easier to make than models nowadays due to way lower quality, and that they used regular unit models for cinematics instead of high poly models with animations specific to each cutscene, and that there is a lot more side dialog as well. The WC3 campaigns also required a lot less extra features (You practically just played regular wc3 matches with different victory conditions, and there was nothing in between missions, while in SC2 you've got all the unit evolutions and between mission UIs, Kerrigans abilities, etc.), AND the data editor is far more complex for sc2 than wc3, so I think it is reasonable that they are taking this long with it. Remember that the Arcade is technically seen a HotS feature, so even though they released it earlier, it still took up development time from HotS. It included graphic engine updates as well. (Per player lighting and lighting regions, ragdoll animations, which btw require new models for the old units, so even more development time is needed)
RoC to TFT was a decent jump in features and so on, but most of them were just editor features afaik (Correct me if I'm wrong - I didn't own the games back then), and they had lower quality and complexity limitations than sc2 does. Yea, there were a lot of new models, but those were easier to make AND we've probably only seen less than a quarter of the models that are coming with HotS anyway.
As for people not buying the game... I don't really get their arguments. I see it mostly from terrans. They got two new units, what do they want? The units are great imo, and if their argument is "they're useless", they are forgetting that this is the third week of beta. Blizzard is throwing around crazy balance changes simply so that they can find something that makes them more useful faster. The numbers will work in the end, so I don't see what they are complaining about. Also, they should remember that blizzard can't add too much new stuff because they have another expansion planned and didn't cut any units for this one (which they actually planned to do), so if they added as much multiplayer stuff as in wc3->TFT, they'd just have way too much stuff by LotV
EDIT: Just want to point out that terran had the most offensive units to begin with:
Terran: 14 (Ground vikings and medivacs counted, MULEs and auto turrets aren't)
Protoss: 11 (Obs and Warp Prism not counted, and even if, still less than terran)
Zerg: 9.5 (Queens count as a half as their speed makes it really hard for them to be used offensively. Not counting broodlings and overseer obviously)
in HotS:
Terran: 16
Protoss: 14
Zerg: 11.5 (Locusts not counted)
Wow, so now you have a firebat produced from the factory that costs no gas it can be healed know and can now enter in a bunker -__-
(╯°□°)╯︵ ɯıʞ pıʌɐp,
!@#$ this thing, blizzard is selling us the same units with another shell, I knew it since the beta of Sc2. They are just out of ideas.....because if you think about it they just combined units and said they are new, helion is a vulture/firebat, medivac is a dropship/medic, thor is an ugly big goliath with a worse valkyrie air attack, marauder is a walking tank with no spash.
I miss the alpha days of sc2, when the game wasn't goofy, when reapers were usefull in battles, when medics were in, when the diamondback was the siege braker unit, when psi-storm had 2 radius and the reaver or the ghost snipe was reasercheble and dealed 150 demage or the infestor could actually infest buildings.
Well they need to bring a Warhound of some kind pronto... they just killed the good solution to TvT stale games with sieging tanks and hanging there with them, and they killed Mech being a viable option vs P.... and they basically made TvZ if mech, no different from WoL. Sure Bhellions are good now to the bio but what happened to 'making diverse builds and more mech?'...
Lol, yeah.
As for the Battle Hellion entering bunkers, yeah that makes sense since the bunker allows bio units only inside. But I bet they'll add another retarded exception for it so they won't be able to enter bunkers. (think how you can feedback Point Defense Drones even though they are explicitly STRUCTURES)
@Bogdan254: Go How come they want to boost factory by adding another BIO unit??? BIO will get stronger!!!
Stupid Blizzard could simply add the firebat to the Barracks, and if they want it to be late game add an armory requirement.
EDIT: Now their stupid development decisions are called bugs. Buff BC gorund damage, want to take it back? Call it a bug. Vipers and Oracles should be psionic but aren't? Another bug!!!!
And WHY IS THERE NO NEW BUILDINGS IN THIS FREAKING GAME!!!, ITS ANNOYING THE FREAKING HeLL OUT OF ME!!!!....
Why no new "Factory type" building, Where prehaps Underground Machines are built...
Or a new Protoss building. For I dunno SOMEHTING DAMMIT, Its really annoying me... Bad, Why not a building that Pulsates that Regenerates shields when you activate it... DAMMIT, I WANT MORE BUILDINGS!!!!, The Zerg and Protoss could use some More Defensive structure, How about a Mobile Bunker, it takes 4 x 4 blocks to move it, and the units inside only have half range... ..
I like the Battle Hellion, but it doesnt NEED ITS OWN FREAKING BUTTON COME ON!!!!... Its Damn Transformation... it makes the Factory look like shit.
Perhaps a new Terran unit, the Tunnel Worm, They could use a new Hidden unit, Okay heres what It can do, It tunnels underground, And it can Pop up, Remove the ultralisk ability its stupid, and give it to this worm, where it can charge and Rush up. and thats what it does, and it Jumps up, then dives back down, but when it jumps up it can be attacked.... so it can be attacked for around 2 seconds, So its not completely hidden...
Could really help that Seige Tank situation...... BAD lol.
I don't understand the rage. The shield battery or whatever it was called in scbw wasn't really useful afaik. Protoss didn't really get new anything to require a new building. Fleet Beacon is kind of like a cruiser class thing for protoss so that covers any big cruisers. Oracles are just simple units and no one would use them if it required an extra building.
Terran doesn't need a hidden units, they have ghosts. The battle hellions being build-able from inside is good. If you have a lot of lings or an some weak guys about to come up the ramp you would rather have battle hellions out instead of hellions who would have to take time to transform. More defensive structures for what? Terran has bunkers and missile turrets which covers the ground and air. Protoss has photon cannons which cover ground and air. Zerg has spore and spine crawlers which cover ground and air. It would just be redundant to include more defensive structures.
That worm unit sounds horrible, it wouldn't be used for tanks at all. It would be used to attack workers and harass the mineral line just like the shredder was. Everything is pretty balanced the way it is right now. But in the beta protoss has gained nothing significant to change their style of play.
Balance in HoTS doesnt mean shit, if the gameplay and all the stratagies are EXACTLY like WoL, and for the most part they are... Its a Terrible Expansion for the most part, Campaign aside(Pending on thtat), The more I hear about this, and the more I play the beta, the less I want to buy it, I am getting closer and Closer to saying its not worth 40. or even 20$....
It doesnt feel like an expansion, it feels like recycled Garbage from BW... Its still, Protoss, deathball, Terran MMM... Nothing has changed this expansion, all the new units are completely pointless, and it is only "balanced" because of the worthlessness of the new units... ITS NOT GOOD!!!, and it would harass worker lines, so? Not if it was a Teir 3 unit... It wouldnt be able to... Make it require the Armory, or a new building all together.. SOMETHING... this is stupid... it really is. This is the biggest turd they have ever announced soo far, and SC2 is one of my favorite, dont settle for garbage just because they care more about WoW then the games that made them famous in the first place.
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david kim have said something about hots
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6571627434
Added Balance update #3 to the first post. Tidied up first post a bit.
@TheAlmaity: Go
Whhhhat... how do you make the little revealer guys. Don't think I ever saw that in the markup
Still sounds like protoss is kinda weak early on and now there late game is so air focused.
@JacktheArcher: Go
There was a thread on the spoiler button about 2 years ago, but unforunately there was a security issue with the "markdown" markup type which caused it to be temporarily removed, and then added back in a very restricted way, which I believe makes it impossible to use those spoiler buttons for regular users now - I have to use RawHTML if I want to use them (Only available to moderators)
I wouldn't say the late game is air focused, but that the new stuff is. Stargate play is just becoming more viable as a main tech choice, but you can still just go robo for the deathball. Honestily, if they had added new units to either the gateway or robotics facility, the stargate would be used even less than it is now. Same thing with Zerg - They added the Viper and the Hydra speed upgrade to the Hive, which encourages earlier hive tech. As for terran... Well, I think bio is overused, so they just shouldn't add units to the rax, but giving another one to the starport instead of factory would probably be nice (that way each race gets at least one new air unit. But then again, terran already has 5 air units to begin with)
@TheAlmaity: Go
If i wasnt a mapper, I wouldnt be buying this expansion, at least as it is now, for 40$ this seems empty compared to the other expansions they have came out with.
I agree, I'm still blown away by how much content was pushed into The Frozen Throne when we got it. Released about 6 months after Warcraft 3, and it almost doubled the amount of units in the game including a fully playable new race in the singleplayer (Illidan's Naga army). Here we're looking at 2 years after SC2 and the expansion isn't close to done yet.
Still, there will be a lot of new content in singleplayer that we haven't seen yet that I'm definitely looking forward to.
Pretty sure TFT was released exactly a year, to the day, after WC3...
Dont forget all of the units, doodads, tilesets, features etc. that has not been revealed yet.
Wow, is there any permutation of game properties they won't put in. Maybe it'll transform into a caster next update, that can move while burrowed.
@ScorpSCII: Go
Thats why I had said if I wasnt a mapper hahah, I am buying it for story and assets.. nothing else.
My mistake, I was confusing that date with its announcement date.
But still, with it having been announced, beta 2 months later, then release 4 months after that, it was a very prompt release.
@Triceron: Go
Keep in mind that WC3 models were a lot easier to make than models nowadays due to way lower quality, and that they used regular unit models for cinematics instead of high poly models with animations specific to each cutscene, and that there is a lot more side dialog as well. The WC3 campaigns also required a lot less extra features (You practically just played regular wc3 matches with different victory conditions, and there was nothing in between missions, while in SC2 you've got all the unit evolutions and between mission UIs, Kerrigans abilities, etc.), AND the data editor is far more complex for sc2 than wc3, so I think it is reasonable that they are taking this long with it. Remember that the Arcade is technically seen a HotS feature, so even though they released it earlier, it still took up development time from HotS. It included graphic engine updates as well. (Per player lighting and lighting regions, ragdoll animations, which btw require new models for the old units, so even more development time is needed)
RoC to TFT was a decent jump in features and so on, but most of them were just editor features afaik (Correct me if I'm wrong - I didn't own the games back then), and they had lower quality and complexity limitations than sc2 does. Yea, there were a lot of new models, but those were easier to make AND we've probably only seen less than a quarter of the models that are coming with HotS anyway.
As for people not buying the game... I don't really get their arguments. I see it mostly from terrans. They got two new units, what do they want? The units are great imo, and if their argument is "they're useless", they are forgetting that this is the third week of beta. Blizzard is throwing around crazy balance changes simply so that they can find something that makes them more useful faster. The numbers will work in the end, so I don't see what they are complaining about. Also, they should remember that blizzard can't add too much new stuff because they have another expansion planned and didn't cut any units for this one (which they actually planned to do), so if they added as much multiplayer stuff as in wc3->TFT, they'd just have way too much stuff by LotV
EDIT: Just want to point out that terran had the most offensive units to begin with:
Terran: 14 (Ground vikings and medivacs counted, MULEs and auto turrets aren't)
Protoss: 11 (Obs and Warp Prism not counted, and even if, still less than terran)
Zerg: 9.5 (Queens count as a half as their speed makes it really hard for them to be used offensively. Not counting broodlings and overseer obviously)
in HotS:
Terran: 16
Protoss: 14
Zerg: 11.5 (Locusts not counted)
@ TheAlmaity and the infested terran is that counted
Wow, so now you have a firebat produced from the factory that costs no gas it can be healed know and can now enter in a bunker -__-
(╯°□°)╯︵ ɯıʞ pıʌɐp,
!@#$ this thing, blizzard is selling us the same units with another shell, I knew it since the beta of Sc2. They are just out of ideas.....because if you think about it they just combined units and said they are new, helion is a vulture/firebat, medivac is a dropship/medic, thor is an ugly big goliath with a worse valkyrie air attack, marauder is a walking tank with no spash.
I miss the alpha days of sc2, when the game wasn't goofy, when reapers were usefull in battles, when medics were in, when the diamondback was the siege braker unit, when psi-storm had 2 radius and the reaver or the ghost snipe was reasercheble and dealed 150 demage or the infestor could actually infest buildings.
Well they need to bring a Warhound of some kind pronto... they just killed the good solution to TvT stale games with sieging tanks and hanging there with them, and they killed Mech being a viable option vs P.... and they basically made TvZ if mech, no different from WoL. Sure Bhellions are good now to the bio but what happened to 'making diverse builds and more mech?'...
@Bogdan254: Go
Lol, yeah. As for the Battle Hellion entering bunkers, yeah that makes sense since the bunker allows bio units only inside. But I bet they'll add another retarded exception for it so they won't be able to enter bunkers. (think how you can feedback Point Defense Drones even though they are explicitly STRUCTURES)
@Bogdan254: Go How come they want to boost factory by adding another BIO unit??? BIO will get stronger!!!
Stupid Blizzard could simply add the firebat to the Barracks, and if they want it to be late game add an armory requirement.
EDIT: Now their stupid development decisions are called bugs. Buff BC gorund damage, want to take it back? Call it a bug. Vipers and Oracles should be psionic but aren't? Another bug!!!!
@SoulFilcher: Go
And WHY IS THERE NO NEW BUILDINGS IN THIS FREAKING GAME!!!, ITS ANNOYING THE FREAKING HeLL OUT OF ME!!!!....
Why no new "Factory type" building, Where prehaps Underground Machines are built...
Or a new Protoss building. For I dunno SOMEHTING DAMMIT, Its really annoying me... Bad, Why not a building that Pulsates that Regenerates shields when you activate it... DAMMIT, I WANT MORE BUILDINGS!!!!, The Zerg and Protoss could use some More Defensive structure, How about a Mobile Bunker, it takes 4 x 4 blocks to move it, and the units inside only have half range... ..
I like the Battle Hellion, but it doesnt NEED ITS OWN FREAKING BUTTON COME ON!!!!... Its Damn Transformation... it makes the Factory look like shit.
Perhaps a new Terran unit, the Tunnel Worm, They could use a new Hidden unit, Okay heres what It can do, It tunnels underground, And it can Pop up, Remove the ultralisk ability its stupid, and give it to this worm, where it can charge and Rush up. and thats what it does, and it Jumps up, then dives back down, but when it jumps up it can be attacked.... so it can be attacked for around 2 seconds, So its not completely hidden...
Could really help that Seige Tank situation...... BAD lol.
LOOK HERES THE WHOLE UNIT PRE PLANNED OUT!!!
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110228025145/wowwiki/images/c/c4/Corborus.jpg
If it was made to look more Terrany.
Still would make a cool unit...
@Taintedwisp: Go
I don't understand the rage. The shield battery or whatever it was called in scbw wasn't really useful afaik. Protoss didn't really get new anything to require a new building. Fleet Beacon is kind of like a cruiser class thing for protoss so that covers any big cruisers. Oracles are just simple units and no one would use them if it required an extra building.
Terran doesn't need a hidden units, they have ghosts. The battle hellions being build-able from inside is good. If you have a lot of lings or an some weak guys about to come up the ramp you would rather have battle hellions out instead of hellions who would have to take time to transform. More defensive structures for what? Terran has bunkers and missile turrets which covers the ground and air. Protoss has photon cannons which cover ground and air. Zerg has spore and spine crawlers which cover ground and air. It would just be redundant to include more defensive structures.
That worm unit sounds horrible, it wouldn't be used for tanks at all. It would be used to attack workers and harass the mineral line just like the shredder was. Everything is pretty balanced the way it is right now. But in the beta protoss has gained nothing significant to change their style of play.
@Keyeszx: Go
Balance in HoTS doesnt mean shit, if the gameplay and all the stratagies are EXACTLY like WoL, and for the most part they are... Its a Terrible Expansion for the most part, Campaign aside(Pending on thtat), The more I hear about this, and the more I play the beta, the less I want to buy it, I am getting closer and Closer to saying its not worth 40. or even 20$....
It doesnt feel like an expansion, it feels like recycled Garbage from BW... Its still, Protoss, deathball, Terran MMM... Nothing has changed this expansion, all the new units are completely pointless, and it is only "balanced" because of the worthlessness of the new units... ITS NOT GOOD!!!, and it would harass worker lines, so? Not if it was a Teir 3 unit... It wouldnt be able to... Make it require the Armory, or a new building all together.. SOMETHING... this is stupid... it really is. This is the biggest turd they have ever announced soo far, and SC2 is one of my favorite, dont settle for garbage just because they care more about WoW then the games that made them famous in the first place.