Some of the Warcaft III maps that were around around the same point as SC2 at the moment are:
10 Hero Siege / 4 Way Hero Siege
Angel Arena
Buyers and Sellers
Commando Wars
DotA*
Final Fantasy Tactics RPG
Ice Troll Tribes
Illidans New Home / 12 Blademasters
Murder at the Mansion
Sheep Tag / Kodo Tag
Spellcraft / Dalaran University
Wintermaul
Zelda Open RPG
Note: DotA = Original version by Elu; the non-crap version with modified slk files for the custom abilities!
I am about 99% sure that all of these maps existed before TFT, which came out a year (and 2 days) after ROC. However, I do not necessarily mean that they were fully complete and polished.
A Mapping community is like Evolution, but sped up quite a bit.
Maps Evolve over time and become better and Better.
Basically, once someone creates something that is unique, people will start to Elaborate off that, then, when that Elaborated idea is better, someone will Elaborate more, until maps we never thought were possible, are possible 2-3 years down the track, at this point, its going to be the same old same old until later on.
There were some amazing things created using the Warcraft 3 editor before starcraft 2 came about, just wait, due to the 2 Expansions of SC2 i know that the maps that will be made in the future will astonish us. Just wait and see :)
Maps were better, community was better, bnet was better...
I could easilly see more resourcer, spells, maps ,models, textures. I would actually prefer wc3 graphics over sc2 graphics so people would have easier time creating models and textures (you could actually use quite lot of them in a map).
I also saw lots of good single player campaigns and they were rather succesfull cause the community was great. I think hiveworkshop has more competitions going than mapster has (and they probly have more motivation to do stuff cause wc3 is awesome). There was even one really good site before hiveworkshop, shame it went down...dont rememer lot about it...
You could always play maps you like, no matter if it was popular or not (people would always join). There was really epic final fantasy rpg, I also liked defiance rpg and civilization wars tug of war was greeeat! dota > sotis. Predator...Uther party...dbz tribute...sheep tag...tree tag...so many great maps. I cannot even remember name of them all.
I havent been in wc3 bnet for a long time now (I heard its pretty much only dota now), but when I played wc3, it was great.
edit* oh and binders deserves to be mentioned too, really nice and unique style of gameplay (I would like to see binders in sc2 too -_-)
BUT, now we have the base of WC3 editor knowledge, whats nearly the same like the SC2 editor. Before we had nothing, maybe the SC1 editor but this is no comparsion.
BUT, now we have the base of WC3 editor knowledge, whats nearly the same like the SC2 editor. Before we had nothing, maybe the SC1 editor but this is no comparsion.
The two editors aren't even close. At least not the data editors. Triggers are fairly similar, but have you even looked at the data editor? Its way more advanced :P
bullshit. I couldnt even create a new unit before reading a tutorial! and even after that it took me a long time to do it...
I say it once again. Triggers editor -> UPGRADE. Data editor -> DOWNGRADE. The most anoying thing still is, it just takes so much time to do stuff. You need to create stuff from several different tabs, while in wc3 you could do it all in same (ability, projectile model, sound, effect, aoe/target)...and I could do plenty of stuff with the tools I was given.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE (or however it goes :D)
when we talk about wc3, I always count it as TFT btw...
The GE could be a bit more complicated without a reason but Mostly it is the more advanced the more advanced shit you can do, but i'm no expert so i could be wrong.
I wonder if, in some fashion, the fact that this is a Starcraft game limits the custom scene at all. I almost feel like the units and world of WC3 lent themselves more easily to new worlds and stories. While with SCII, the places you can take your map with it still being believable are relatively limited.
I agree with the above to some extent. It's not much of an excuse for bad maps, but fantasy settings are just so much easier to work with. Magic and swords also tend to be more epic than guns and mechs.
I'm secretly hoping that they'll surprise us when HotS comes out, with a selection of fantasy models. At least basic ones like footmen, archers and mages.
That would be awesome. I think it's not only that fantasy settings are easier to work with, but the fact that someone could go display most fantasy worlds(including ones they have created) with relative. For example, LoTR maps. Because some of the models were somewhat generic, it gave the player more free reign as to where he took things. You could make a map which looked like it did indeed take place in another universe.
I think it's much more difficult to make something in Galaxy that doesn't scream STARCRAFT!!!. Without, that is, going to further lengths with WoW or custom models - which I feel might become more common as time goes on.
I also feel myself wanting the simpler things that WC3 would have had. Like trees which could be harvested and topple.
I think the perceived number and quality of maps at this time is that many people have a lot of big ideas that they are trying to develop into maps, which can take a while. Additionally, many maps are of game types that have been well established, and will slowly become more polished as time goes on. Though the editor for SC2 is not that much harder to use than for WC3 in certain instances, there is a much larger barrier to entry. I remember being about 13 years old and being able to quickly figure out how to do almost everything the editor was capable of, whereas SC2 would require several hours of trial and error or read a guide (where the individual who wrote it spent an equivalent amount of time). I think we can be grateful that compared to the equivalent mapping communities for WC3 (wc3c, hive), SC2 mapster is much more focused on theorycrafting as opposed to art assets (which is ironic because there were more assets for WC3 than SC2). In the long run, given the capabilities of the editor and the outside-the-box ideas our community has been entertaining, the SC2 mapping community by the time of LotV will be far better than we ever imagined.
SC2 Data editor sucks. I learned to do anything in W3 while I was a kid and had 0 idea about what programming was. With SC2, I'm a good programmer and I get headaches each time I open that shit. It's so unintuitive and so complicated, and in the end, you need to press 200 buttons to change a goddamn model!! I did that with a click back at W3!!
Also, assets. SC2 has no assets. 3 races. W3 had like 40. I see load of pipes, rocks and weird stuff, but I don't see unit models. Maybe they're saving them for expansions, maybe they're lazy to introduce more alien species (there's some on lore already, btw). The lack of assets hurts the game a lot, and custom models won't save it, because it's the initial models those which matter.
The custom map system is the worst crap ever. Don't ask me to respect whoever did that work, because it's a goddamn crime for the gaming industry. You don't need half a brain to see it sucks from kilometers far. It needs to be fixed ASAP, and we've already been 1 year with the game, and it wasn't fixed. But yeah, old news.
The community sucks, mostly because Bnet doesn't encourage any community at all (HERP DERP sc2 will be social, because we put Bookface inside, who cares if people is retardedly forced to act as autistics!). No chat channels until 6 months after release, and they are terrible. What, you need a team of programmers to fix that chat channel system? I could do it myself with some Internet tutorials, for god's sake.
I went back to W3 Bnet with some SC2 friends that were annoyed of crappy custom maps, and aside from old control limitations (unit groups a clear one), it was much more better.
Some of the Warcaft III maps that were around around the same point as SC2 at the moment are:
Note: DotA = Original version by Elu; the non-crap version with modified slk files for the custom abilities!
I am about 99% sure that all of these maps existed before TFT, which came out a year (and 2 days) after ROC. However, I do not necessarily mean that they were fully complete and polished.
12 Blademasters, talk about an easy map to make.
I might have to remake it, see if it can get page 1 lol :p
All good wc3 rpgs took 3+ years to make
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
A Mapping community is like Evolution, but sped up quite a bit.
Maps Evolve over time and become better and Better.
Basically, once someone creates something that is unique, people will start to Elaborate off that, then, when that Elaborated idea is better, someone will Elaborate more, until maps we never thought were possible, are possible 2-3 years down the track, at this point, its going to be the same old same old until later on.
There were some amazing things created using the Warcraft 3 editor before starcraft 2 came about, just wait, due to the 2 Expansions of SC2 i know that the maps that will be made in the future will astonish us. Just wait and see :)
Maps were better, community was better, bnet was better...
I could easilly see more resourcer, spells, maps ,models, textures. I would actually prefer wc3 graphics over sc2 graphics so people would have easier time creating models and textures (you could actually use quite lot of them in a map).
I also saw lots of good single player campaigns and they were rather succesfull cause the community was great. I think hiveworkshop has more competitions going than mapster has (and they probly have more motivation to do stuff cause wc3 is awesome). There was even one really good site before hiveworkshop, shame it went down...dont rememer lot about it...
You could always play maps you like, no matter if it was popular or not (people would always join). There was really epic final fantasy rpg, I also liked defiance rpg and civilization wars tug of war was greeeat! dota > sotis. Predator...Uther party...dbz tribute...sheep tag...tree tag...so many great maps. I cannot even remember name of them all.
I havent been in wc3 bnet for a long time now (I heard its pretty much only dota now), but when I played wc3, it was great.
BUT, now we have the base of WC3 editor knowledge, whats nearly the same like the SC2 editor. Before we had nothing, maybe the SC1 editor but this is no comparsion.
The two editors aren't even close. At least not the data editors. Triggers are fairly similar, but have you even looked at the data editor? Its way more advanced :P
@playlessNamer: Go
bullshit. I couldnt even create a new unit before reading a tutorial! and even after that it took me a long time to do it...
I say it once again. Triggers editor -> UPGRADE. Data editor -> DOWNGRADE. The most anoying thing still is, it just takes so much time to do stuff. You need to create stuff from several different tabs, while in wc3 you could do it all in same (ability, projectile model, sound, effect, aoe/target)...and I could do plenty of stuff with the tools I was given.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE (or however it goes :D)
when we talk about wc3, I always count it as TFT btw...
@zenx1: Go
The GE could be a bit more complicated without a reason but Mostly it is the more advanced the more advanced shit you can do, but i'm no expert so i could be wrong.
Im sure, we could so so much more than what people are doing now, due to the Complexity of the Editor. And i cant wait..
I wonder if, in some fashion, the fact that this is a Starcraft game limits the custom scene at all. I almost feel like the units and world of WC3 lent themselves more easily to new worlds and stories. While with SCII, the places you can take your map with it still being believable are relatively limited.
I agree with the above to some extent. It's not much of an excuse for bad maps, but fantasy settings are just so much easier to work with. Magic and swords also tend to be more epic than guns and mechs.
I'm secretly hoping that they'll surprise us when HotS comes out, with a selection of fantasy models. At least basic ones like footmen, archers and mages.
@Eiviyn: Go
That would be awesome. I think it's not only that fantasy settings are easier to work with, but the fact that someone could go display most fantasy worlds(including ones they have created) with relative. For example, LoTR maps. Because some of the models were somewhat generic, it gave the player more free reign as to where he took things. You could make a map which looked like it did indeed take place in another universe.
I think it's much more difficult to make something in Galaxy that doesn't scream STARCRAFT!!!. Without, that is, going to further lengths with WoW or custom models - which I feel might become more common as time goes on.
I also feel myself wanting the simpler things that WC3 would have had. Like trees which could be harvested and topple.
Im creating a map that dosent scream STARCRAFT! :P
Its an Asylum Exploration Horror Map. http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/project-workplace/23022-asylum/
@Pshyched: Go
I didn't say it was impossible ;)
I think the perceived number and quality of maps at this time is that many people have a lot of big ideas that they are trying to develop into maps, which can take a while. Additionally, many maps are of game types that have been well established, and will slowly become more polished as time goes on. Though the editor for SC2 is not that much harder to use than for WC3 in certain instances, there is a much larger barrier to entry. I remember being about 13 years old and being able to quickly figure out how to do almost everything the editor was capable of, whereas SC2 would require several hours of trial and error or read a guide (where the individual who wrote it spent an equivalent amount of time). I think we can be grateful that compared to the equivalent mapping communities for WC3 (wc3c, hive), SC2 mapster is much more focused on theorycrafting as opposed to art assets (which is ironic because there were more assets for WC3 than SC2). In the long run, given the capabilities of the editor and the outside-the-box ideas our community has been entertaining, the SC2 mapping community by the time of LotV will be far better than we ever imagined.
Warcraft III was better for thousand of reasons.
SC2 Data editor sucks. I learned to do anything in W3 while I was a kid and had 0 idea about what programming was. With SC2, I'm a good programmer and I get headaches each time I open that shit. It's so unintuitive and so complicated, and in the end, you need to press 200 buttons to change a goddamn model!! I did that with a click back at W3!!
Also, assets. SC2 has no assets. 3 races. W3 had like 40. I see load of pipes, rocks and weird stuff, but I don't see unit models. Maybe they're saving them for expansions, maybe they're lazy to introduce more alien species (there's some on lore already, btw). The lack of assets hurts the game a lot, and custom models won't save it, because it's the initial models those which matter.
The custom map system is the worst crap ever. Don't ask me to respect whoever did that work, because it's a goddamn crime for the gaming industry. You don't need half a brain to see it sucks from kilometers far. It needs to be fixed ASAP, and we've already been 1 year with the game, and it wasn't fixed. But yeah, old news.
The community sucks, mostly because Bnet doesn't encourage any community at all (HERP DERP sc2 will be social, because we put Bookface inside, who cares if people is retardedly forced to act as autistics!). No chat channels until 6 months after release, and they are terrible. What, you need a team of programmers to fix that chat channel system? I could do it myself with some Internet tutorials, for god's sake.
I went back to W3 Bnet with some SC2 friends that were annoyed of crappy custom maps, and aside from old control limitations (unit groups a clear one), it was much more better.
It's called Facebook.
There's no such thing as Bookface.
@Lonami: Go
"There is no greater appreciation than people fixing your typos"