I know you we all complained about popularity system in sc2 wol. Well after playing Sc2 Arcade Beta 1.5 for 3 days i realized that it was never a blizzards fault for the failed popularity system. Now we have the perfect system where you can rate map and also creates open games lobby but the human factor is just relentless. The most played maps are still the worst maps. The only good map that made it out of the mud is Bomberbot which is great. I tried to play some more complex maps with the open lobby but when the other players realized that for that map they actualy have to use their brains they just left after 10 sec. I dont know what they expected in the first 10 sec of the game???? The worst i ever played was of course the most played: War of the Helms Deep. The interesting thing is that the rating of the map is very low but for some reason the map is constantly played. So i want to apologize to blizzard for all the people that were flaming these couple of years.
So my dear mate mapmaker, if you want your map played make the most stupid map in the world and dont blame blizzard for peoples stupidity.
And btw GZ Blizzard the system is perfect.(this was not ironic)
You fool... if blizzard did things right the first time there would be no need for an update... they changed things because people were complaining about the system!!!!
The battle.net has different type of players. Some people don't want to think, so they only play simple maps.
Due to the accessibility of maps, nobody wants to read a lot to be able to play. Also the text they read should be visually appealing to attract the player to find out what to do.
Complex maps that require some sort of understanding of the map to have a chance winning will greatly benefit from the tutorial. If it is visually appealing (great screenshots, people might play the tutorial to find out what the map is about. Maybe suggest that in the "map info" or in the "how to play" section of the map. There will always be players that leave the game instantly because they don't like the game type the map has or are completely lost in the beginning of the map). They might play the tutorial, if they read that it can help, and understand how the basics of the game work and what a good beginner strategy is. After that they just test the real map and might become addicted to it. Then they keep playing it the next days.
There are people that cannot think. There are a lot in the arcades that complained about my map that they had to download 900 mb and gave bad reviews. Sadly they forgot that they have never finished streaming the complete SC2 Arcade and didn't think about that. You can make a map for those or make a map for other players. It really depends on yourself, too. I see myself unable to make a good map for the simple players because I try to use the capabilities of the editor. People that just learn the editor and might have better skills to make these maps.
I could take my Starcraft Broodwar map as an example. People loved it and so did I while finishing it. But a few years later I see the whole concept of the map and I stopped enjoying it. I tried to make a version of the map in SC2, but I realized how simple the map felt. It had no dept. I couldn't enjoy playing it and so I can't enjoy making it. Therefore I canceled the development and I might never make a tower defense map again.
In my opinion, the old battle.net failed because mapmakers couldn't get their map played. Most maps have never been seen by most players. With the open lobbies everyone can make maps appear on the screen of other players.
As an example, many players on arcade thought I would have released my diablo map to public just a few days ago. But in reality it was lurking since November 2011 publicly on first EU and then US. They just never saw/heard of my map which lurked within their range for 7 (!) months.
But now my map can be seen by most people and it is seen. It would have been slower, if all mappers would have added their map to the arcades. But now some youtubers like Huskystarcraft saw my map and made a video about it. So it already a big succeeded for me. My mod has become visible to the players.
Sure the map still has problems, but I'm addressing the issues players write in their reviews. These players are not mappers because most feedback I had came from other mappers and some players that found my map randomly. These are mostly players that enjoy custom maps and received the news of the arcade beta. I assume that there are even a few people that just don't know about the arcade beta availability because they live under a rock playing the same maps on a daily basis. So you might haven't experienced these kind of players.
Sorry 4 wall of text. If this would be a tutorial, you are doing it wrong.
I think I could live with the new updates (havent tested them thou).
but the thing is I still have 0% interest to return to sc2...maybe I will someday, but dont really know...I dont even have any map that would be close to finishing so I dont know if its over for me.
This whole "Only bad maps are on page 1" bullshit has to stop. There is a reason page 1 maps are on page 1. There is also a reason your map is on page 17-50. That reason is not because you're a special little snowflake who just hasn't had the exposure.
It's because your map is bad, and even if it were on page 1, it would die within 24 hours.
The simple reason why the popularity system didnt work was that it caused some sort of snowball effect, meaning that popular maps have an advantage over non-popular maps and therefore get even more popular.
I think patch 1.5 does a good job in breaking up the pop. system and giving the users more ways to find new maps. Especially stuff like the star rating or the reviews are a very good addition.
Cant agree with you here. I think the maps on page 1 definatly have smth thats fun (otherwise they would die out even though they are on page one) about them, however i think that there are many good maps below page 2/3 that never get played, and therefore cant evolve. Without ALOT of advertising and help from people you basically dont have a chance to get your map played at all.
I understand to an extent what the OP is saying. The SC2 player-base is largely made up of 12-17 year olds, and this player base is not generally interested in complex games that require a lot of thinking. A game that is more centered around quick action and less around strategy and thinking is going to do much better than a more cerebral game.
This was not such a big deal back in wc3, because they had the "list" game system from the start, and this system enabled more cerebral players to play their more complex games. But SC2 had the popularity system from the start up until now. The popularity system only showcased the most popular maps "quick action low brow maps" and the popularity system has been in place for such a long time that it has effectively killed off that older, more cerebral and strategic group of players that existed in wc3 who would want to play a more complex game.
So now it is basically just those 12-17 year olds who are into the low brow high action games, so youll have a hard time getting people to play anything else. Maybe some of the older audience will come back over time with the arcade system, but those players have been gone for so long i doubt it. For me personally im one of those players, and i stopped playing SC2 a year and a half ago because of this. The only cerebral game that was popular was Mafia, so i played until i was bored and stopped playing the game, i was never interested in Marine arena or tower defense.
The only reason im still around to some extent is because i made a map that ended up becoming quite popular (2nd Overall on the "all" custom games list) for a short time and is still played a little bit, so i check up on that every once and a while, including now with the arcade switch. Even that game i made is more of a simple fast action game and not all that strategic. And thats the other thing to take into account here. Most map makers know what demographic makes up the SC2 player-base, and they know what they want (simple fast action maps) so that is what they get (at-least if your a map maker who wants people to play their maps).
I never talked about my maps. I play my maps with friends and dont care about its reputation.
I just sad that system how ever good desined will never bee perfect. And i wanted to play something new thats all.
And I had to make this comment because of people whining on map reviews about the map they constantly play.
I never sad that the all popular maps are crap. I just wanted to say that many players will just leave good maps no matter if they are on the first browse page.
And i was not flaming or whining i just sad what i think.
Btw ,I played you map Catalyst long ago and it was very good map.
Actually the Pop system was flawed, Because why search for something new if you can already have fun with whats there? Its like why drive 5 miles more when you can buy a product that is already satisfying? Even if the other product may be better.
Personally, I think the new system will be great, but I do worrie about players being too lazy to hit the open lobby list lol.
Eiviyn, There are plenty of page 1 maps taht strait up suck... and the only reason they are played are because they can fill a lobby,
Such as Hero's Dragon RPG, when it first came out. lol It was no texture, Poorly placed cliffs, a zegling with a basic leveling system, and 1 type of creeps.....
It was Shit, there was no other way it could be called, but shit... it stayed for about 3 months on page 1, then moved to page 2, and slowly came back to page 1 with new content....
I haven't tried it since, but I hope that its better, my point is shit maps can stay up too. Though I personally think the Current popularity system has a glitch that puts random maps on page 1, Some have no reason , Like Dragon RPG, he posted it NO WHERE, and yet it shot to page 1? he didnt even post in on Battle.net or Reddit, or youtube, or twitter, or facebook, or anything... and yet page 1?, Still sounds like a glitch to me, and I wonder if this is fixed in 1.5 pop system.
Also it was stated that the 100 + pages of maps will be moved to an inactive section, and you will have to re-uplaod you map after 1.5 to get it to show back up.
Also it was stated that the 100 + pages of maps will be moved to an inactive section, and you will have to re-uplaod you map after 1.5 to get it to show back up.
Can you remember where you got that info from?
I think I've read that they push old maps into "other" category on patch release. But I've no idea where I read that. :S
No, they won't be wiped out, but since we've added and changed so many things with map data and the StarCraft II engine, maps should be probably be updated and re-published after 1.5.0 goes live. In the meantime, pre-1.5.0 maps may be cordoned off some-how until they're updated. You'll still be able to find and play pre-1.5.0 maps, but they won't have any of the new features until they're updated.
Once pre-1.5.0 maps are updated with a type (SC2 / Arcade) and genre, then re-published, they’ll appear in the correct spot.
1. You can't really judge the maps being played when there's probably less than 100 people even actively on the beta.
2. Its nice people are playing stupid, simple, maps that would otherwise have never been played or tested.
3. Don't know where you're getting these crazy statistics, only 1 good popular map??? There are many. And I enjoy more of them than of the top maps in the current SC2.
4. Why are you posting an apology to Blizzard on SC2Mapster? They have their own forum.
5. The top maps are constantly changing, flux that could never have been present in the old system.
Daxxarri
Community Manager
06/01/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Rodrigo
Old custom maps will be wiped out from the system once 1.5 comes out?
No, they won't be wiped out, but since we've added and changed so many things with map data and the StarCraft II engine, maps should be probably be updated and re-published after 1.5.0 goes live. In the meantime, pre-1.5.0 maps may be cordoned off some-how until they're updated. You'll still be able to find and play pre-1.5.0 maps, but they won't have any of the new features until they're updated.
Once pre-1.5.0 maps are updated with a type (SC2 / Arcade) and genre, then re-published, they’ll appear in the correct spot.
I know you we all complained about popularity system in sc2 wol. Well after playing Sc2 Arcade Beta 1.5 for 3 days i realized that it was never a blizzards fault for the failed popularity system. Now we have the perfect system where you can rate map and also creates open games lobby but the human factor is just relentless. The most played maps are still the worst maps. The only good map that made it out of the mud is Bomberbot which is great. I tried to play some more complex maps with the open lobby but when the other players realized that for that map they actualy have to use their brains they just left after 10 sec. I dont know what they expected in the first 10 sec of the game???? The worst i ever played was of course the most played: War of the Helms Deep. The interesting thing is that the rating of the map is very low but for some reason the map is constantly played. So i want to apologize to blizzard for all the people that were flaming these couple of years. So my dear mate mapmaker, if you want your map played make the most stupid map in the world and dont blame blizzard for peoples stupidity. And btw GZ Blizzard the system is perfect.(this was not ironic)
Fence of text crits Mozared for 3928!
Try using the enter key occasionaly, that should make your posts readable.
@Zealkg: Go
I disagree.
We need dislike button on threads....
You fool... if blizzard did things right the first time there would be no need for an update... they changed things because people were complaining about the system!!!!
The battle.net has different type of players. Some people don't want to think, so they only play simple maps.
Due to the accessibility of maps, nobody wants to read a lot to be able to play. Also the text they read should be visually appealing to attract the player to find out what to do.
Complex maps that require some sort of understanding of the map to have a chance winning will greatly benefit from the tutorial. If it is visually appealing (great screenshots, people might play the tutorial to find out what the map is about. Maybe suggest that in the "map info" or in the "how to play" section of the map. There will always be players that leave the game instantly because they don't like the game type the map has or are completely lost in the beginning of the map). They might play the tutorial, if they read that it can help, and understand how the basics of the game work and what a good beginner strategy is. After that they just test the real map and might become addicted to it. Then they keep playing it the next days.
There are people that cannot think. There are a lot in the arcades that complained about my map that they had to download 900 mb and gave bad reviews. Sadly they forgot that they have never finished streaming the complete SC2 Arcade and didn't think about that. You can make a map for those or make a map for other players. It really depends on yourself, too. I see myself unable to make a good map for the simple players because I try to use the capabilities of the editor. People that just learn the editor and might have better skills to make these maps.
I could take my Starcraft Broodwar map as an example. People loved it and so did I while finishing it. But a few years later I see the whole concept of the map and I stopped enjoying it. I tried to make a version of the map in SC2, but I realized how simple the map felt. It had no dept. I couldn't enjoy playing it and so I can't enjoy making it. Therefore I canceled the development and I might never make a tower defense map again.
In my opinion, the old battle.net failed because mapmakers couldn't get their map played. Most maps have never been seen by most players. With the open lobbies everyone can make maps appear on the screen of other players.
As an example, many players on arcade thought I would have released my diablo map to public just a few days ago. But in reality it was lurking since November 2011 publicly on first EU and then US. They just never saw/heard of my map which lurked within their range for 7 (!) months.
But now my map can be seen by most people and it is seen. It would have been slower, if all mappers would have added their map to the arcades. But now some youtubers like Huskystarcraft saw my map and made a video about it. So it already a big succeeded for me. My mod has become visible to the players.
Sure the map still has problems, but I'm addressing the issues players write in their reviews. These players are not mappers because most feedback I had came from other mappers and some players that found my map randomly. These are mostly players that enjoy custom maps and received the news of the arcade beta. I assume that there are even a few people that just don't know about the arcade beta availability because they live under a rock playing the same maps on a daily basis. So you might haven't experienced these kind of players.
Sorry 4 wall of text. If this would be a tutorial, you are doing it wrong.
I think I could live with the new updates (havent tested them thou).
but the thing is I still have 0% interest to return to sc2...maybe I will someday, but dont really know...I dont even have any map that would be close to finishing so I dont know if its over for me.
This whole "Only bad maps are on page 1" bullshit has to stop. There is a reason page 1 maps are on page 1. There is also a reason your map is on page 17-50. That reason is not because you're a special little snowflake who just hasn't had the exposure.
It's because your map is bad, and even if it were on page 1, it would die within 24 hours.
Go forth, and learn how to be less shit.
@Eiviyn: Go
what?
have you even seen what they have done? they DID make an active list of lobbies! so what are you going on about?
I know reading is hard, but try using it on the other posts in this thread.
The simple reason why the popularity system didnt work was that it caused some sort of snowball effect, meaning that popular maps have an advantage over non-popular maps and therefore get even more popular.
I think patch 1.5 does a good job in breaking up the pop. system and giving the users more ways to find new maps. Especially stuff like the star rating or the reviews are a very good addition.
@Eiviyn: Go
Cant agree with you here. I think the maps on page 1 definatly have smth thats fun (otherwise they would die out even though they are on page one) about them, however i think that there are many good maps below page 2/3 that never get played, and therefore cant evolve. Without ALOT of advertising and help from people you basically dont have a chance to get your map played at all.
I understand to an extent what the OP is saying. The SC2 player-base is largely made up of 12-17 year olds, and this player base is not generally interested in complex games that require a lot of thinking. A game that is more centered around quick action and less around strategy and thinking is going to do much better than a more cerebral game.
This was not such a big deal back in wc3, because they had the "list" game system from the start, and this system enabled more cerebral players to play their more complex games. But SC2 had the popularity system from the start up until now. The popularity system only showcased the most popular maps "quick action low brow maps" and the popularity system has been in place for such a long time that it has effectively killed off that older, more cerebral and strategic group of players that existed in wc3 who would want to play a more complex game.
So now it is basically just those 12-17 year olds who are into the low brow high action games, so youll have a hard time getting people to play anything else. Maybe some of the older audience will come back over time with the arcade system, but those players have been gone for so long i doubt it. For me personally im one of those players, and i stopped playing SC2 a year and a half ago because of this. The only cerebral game that was popular was Mafia, so i played until i was bored and stopped playing the game, i was never interested in Marine arena or tower defense.
The only reason im still around to some extent is because i made a map that ended up becoming quite popular (2nd Overall on the "all" custom games list) for a short time and is still played a little bit, so i check up on that every once and a while, including now with the arcade switch. Even that game i made is more of a simple fast action game and not all that strategic. And thats the other thing to take into account here. Most map makers know what demographic makes up the SC2 player-base, and they know what they want (simple fast action maps) so that is what they get (at-least if your a map maker who wants people to play their maps).
@Eiviyn: Go
I never talked about my maps. I play my maps with friends and dont care about its reputation. I just sad that system how ever good desined will never bee perfect. And i wanted to play something new thats all. And I had to make this comment because of people whining on map reviews about the map they constantly play. I never sad that the all popular maps are crap. I just wanted to say that many players will just leave good maps no matter if they are on the first browse page. And i was not flaming or whining i just sad what i think.
Btw ,I played you map Catalyst long ago and it was very good map.
Actually the Pop system was flawed, Because why search for something new if you can already have fun with whats there? Its like why drive 5 miles more when you can buy a product that is already satisfying? Even if the other product may be better.
Personally, I think the new system will be great, but I do worrie about players being too lazy to hit the open lobby list lol.
Eiviyn, There are plenty of page 1 maps taht strait up suck... and the only reason they are played are because they can fill a lobby,
Such as Hero's Dragon RPG, when it first came out. lol It was no texture, Poorly placed cliffs, a zegling with a basic leveling system, and 1 type of creeps.....
It was Shit, there was no other way it could be called, but shit... it stayed for about 3 months on page 1, then moved to page 2, and slowly came back to page 1 with new content....
I haven't tried it since, but I hope that its better, my point is shit maps can stay up too. Though I personally think the Current popularity system has a glitch that puts random maps on page 1, Some have no reason , Like Dragon RPG, he posted it NO WHERE, and yet it shot to page 1? he didnt even post in on Battle.net or Reddit, or youtube, or twitter, or facebook, or anything... and yet page 1?, Still sounds like a glitch to me, and I wonder if this is fixed in 1.5 pop system.
Also it was stated that the 100 + pages of maps will be moved to an inactive section, and you will have to re-uplaod you map after 1.5 to get it to show back up.
Can you remember where you got that info from?
I think I've read that they push old maps into "other" category on patch release. But I've no idea where I read that. :S
@Ahli634: Go
And for those who don''t want to think: I made Baneling Scramble .◠.
@Ahli634: Go
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5593232432#13
@Thetubbygoat: Go
You should have your hands chopped off so you can never map again.
@Zealkg: Go
1. You can't really judge the maps being played when there's probably less than 100 people even actively on the beta.
2. Its nice people are playing stupid, simple, maps that would otherwise have never been played or tested.
3. Don't know where you're getting these crazy statistics, only 1 good popular map??? There are many. And I enjoy more of them than of the top maps in the current SC2.
4. Why are you posting an apology to Blizzard on SC2Mapster? They have their own forum.
5. The top maps are constantly changing, flux that could never have been present in the old system.
@Ahli634: Go
There
Daxxarri Community Manager 06/01/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Rodrigo Old custom maps will be wiped out from the system once 1.5 comes out?
No, they won't be wiped out, but since we've added and changed so many things with map data and the StarCraft II engine, maps should be probably be updated and re-published after 1.5.0 goes live. In the meantime, pre-1.5.0 maps may be cordoned off some-how until they're updated. You'll still be able to find and play pre-1.5.0 maps, but they won't have any of the new features until they're updated.
Once pre-1.5.0 maps are updated with a type (SC2 / Arcade) and genre, then re-published, they’ll appear in the correct spot.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5593232432
@Taintedwisp: Go Too late, Tolkfan already answered that.
I say we will have to wait. Right now arcade has not enough maps or players to picture the outcome. But with all the changes I'm positive.