Today we hit a milestone, we went over the 50mb mark for Tofu. I am not writing this to brag, as it is not a good thing, but more so to share with you guys a really big project's file size numbers so you can plan your own projects accordingly. I would honestly love to see Ryan hop in here and tell us how big SCU is, as well as EW and AoS2 ... as they are another two really big projects.
So you are looking at 50 mb worth of data and 5 file slots taken for a single game, and we have not even included any custom voice-over work yet ... that is just the soundtrack ... I am presuming that Tofu will hit about 65-70 mb before release ... + another Asset file for a special little project.
The reasoning behind why I made the concious design decision to split up the mod files a year and a half ago;
1) I use to split up the assets evenly over the mods and map file because I could not upload them to Blizzard's servers without timing out. I actually had to plug in and tether my iPhone to upload the first beta test a year ago (<5mb chunks). I could not use my DSL connection to upload it because it was simply too slow. Now that I have a new connection I am able to upload the 16.5mb asset file, but whether or not I can upload the sound assets I am not sure yet (using a caculator it says my cut off point is around 20mb) ... why does a 3 minute time limit exist in the first place? -_- at least make it like 5 or 10.
2) Theoritically you should only ever have to download the two "BIG" asset files once, which are around 80% of the total download needed to play Tofu. The same mods are used for all Tofu projects, so if you wanted to play any map, whether it be RPGs, Arenas, AOS or anything else we can think of, you would not have to redownload the big asset mods.
If we add new heroes you would have to download the Hero Assets mod, which contains Hero Art, Textures and Item Art but the rest would be fine. Again, if we decided to balance a hero, all you would have to download is the 300kb Data mod ... + of course the map because we cannot update the mod without updating everything above it ... which is a pretty poor design decision on Blizzard's behalf.
I understand why they did it, so that when you watch replays etc, it uses the correct data, but we should be able to check a box that says [\/] Always use latest available mod. That way we can update the 300kb Data file without forcing the players to redownload a 4mb map just for a single change of Mod Dependancy.
And in the spirit of sharing, this is what I am listening to while I write this:
Yeah, its a custom sound track, 7 tracks of about 3-5 mins long each ... compressed to mp3.
The reason I posted it is because during the beta a lot of people asked about putting in a custom sound track cause the game was really quite, and the current sizes of the mods we had. So I figured instead of sending the same message to half a dozen people, I would post it here for all to read. Because we are closing in to open beta status, the mod sizes, though they would change are near their final amounts.
Also, what else have I got to talk about on a map making forum except for the project I am working on -_- ...
sounds:
~ 20.5 mb (includes like 20 minutes of music, D1 sounds, ogg, compressed with audacity with quality 0 -> no big loss as files had poor Diablo 1 quality ;D)
models:
~ 3.5 mb (only m3 filesize)
images:
~ 4.5 mb (dds, dds files renamed to tga for smaller model textures)
progress in map:
-half of the monsters got a model, but I need a ton of doodad and a few wall models in addition to this
-sounds only need a few quest related sounds
-images are pretty much completed (-> only more textures for doodads/walls)
I've compressed every sound and every texture to cut filesize. I just started to use my second mod file as my mod files only include all my sounds atm.
I saved the most space with model textures. I just resized images from 1024x1024 to 196x196 and made the file use dds format (only editor complains, sc2 engine handles wrong specified filetypes correctly).
I assume your completely custom UI takes a lot of image space. :D
RuneCraft Map File ~ 2.94 MB (Data, Terrain, and a few imported images*)
RuneCraft Mod File ~ 8.72 MB (Imported images for UI, a few textures and models for unit reskins, models for the different mage skins)
Yea, I know, RuneCraft isn't the on the same level of "large project" as tofu or diablo, mostly due to us sticking to standard sc2 units to keep things simple for those who already know the game, but I wanted to post here anyway :p
The little * at the end of "a few imported images" is there because I only keep images in the map file that I frequently change (Usually during the time I'm first implementing them), right now for example I'm testing out custom buttons and changing their shading a lot, and I changing the mod file for every single change is just a waste of time atm and when I publish, people would have to download the huge mod file just for a few <100 KB images, so I'm leaving them in the map until I need to make a bigger update to the mod.
Also, anyone know whether a custom loading screen image being in a mod works? If I put the RC loading screen into the mod, I just end up with the blue placeholder image across my entire screen. But then, the loading screen is always slightly blurry until the game has loaded past a certain point during local tests, so it might be different online...
I dont know the exact file sizes for SCU (it wont be representative anyways since its still WIP), but ontopic, yes, its definatly a good idea to split data up. However we found that its very annoying when alpha-testing in battle.net, since it means more uploading work.
For the players its alot more comfortable though, since they will only have to download the pieces that changed when patching the game and also, for sure, there is the map/mod size limit (I cant remember how big the limit is atm) that you have to keep in mind.
Quote:
of course the map because we cannot update the mod without updating everything above it ... which is a pretty poor design decision on Blizzard's behalf
As far as i know its necessary to re-upload all files that use the modified mod since all data needs to be re-verified in the editor. Since mods can contain script for example it has to check if the script is still used properly. (Removed methods/changed parameters etc)
It would be cool to be able to update a mod without having to re-upload all the stuff that uses it, but i doubt its technically possible and even if its possible it might cause alot of unexpected errors when modifying data thats used by the map, so i guess blizzard went for the save approach.
However, if you are planning to do multiple maps there is definatly no way around splitting up data anyways, since anything else would be very inefficient.
About the file size limit on battle.net. When you go over the limit (10mb right?), does that mean the map can't be played on battle.net, or does it just mean that you can not download from battle.net?
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About the file size limit on battle.net. When you go over the limit (10mb right?), does that mean the map can't be played on battle.net, or does it just mean that you can not download from battle.net?
Beats me but no one had any issues downloading the 15mb Asset file for Tofu.
Both of my big projects are about 20 mb, because I knew nothing about linking mods and been trying to fit 21 mb. Most of this volume is textures of imported models. Now I know how to enlarge *mine*, so actual project will be bigger then 20 mb, maybe I'll beat tofu.
I'm thinking AoS 2 will actually be relatively small. We've got some stuff that will bump up the size, but we've been keeping this very compact so far. Don't know the relevant numbers as well as EW, though.
Very much so. Just going along quietly. Since the team is quite big we're all working on it at different moments, and a lot of stuff hasn't been consolidated yet.
I don't have the exact numbers but my Ikari Warriors map is around 2Mb (including 3 imported sounds)... I also uploaded a private version with imported soundtracks (in a single file), which is around 13Mb (8 tracks total). It's very modest compared to all the projects above, but I just wanted to make my point and say I don't see the point in making a map that large.
In my opinion, there is enough data in SC2 (and its official mods) to make an interesting map without importing hundreds of models, sounds, soundtracks, textures and such. The mod file for StarJeweled is around 3Mb, and this map is more popular than the other official Blizzard maps (Left 2 Die and Aiur Chef) respectively with 32Mb and 28Mb mod files. 70Mb for a single map is insane, and not in a good way (the conversion of the SC1 campaign uses a mod that size... for the whole thing!). You're just being too greedy. And besides, if your map fails to be popular this was all done for nothing...
Maps that weight too much fail at fun or not. Players last too long to download them and when they do, half the lobby has already gone. And as you may know when a lobby is full of players, no new players will enter the lobby if someone leaves.
Today we hit a milestone, we went over the 50mb mark for Tofu. I am not writing this to brag, as it is not a good thing, but more so to share with you guys a really big project's file size numbers so you can plan your own projects accordingly. I would honestly love to see Ryan hop in here and tell us how big SCU is, as well as EW and AoS2 ... as they are another two really big projects.
So you are looking at 50 mb worth of data and 5 file slots taken for a single game, and we have not even included any custom voice-over work yet ... that is just the soundtrack ... I am presuming that Tofu will hit about 65-70 mb before release ... + another Asset file for a special little project.
The reasoning behind why I made the concious design decision to split up the mod files a year and a half ago;
1) I use to split up the assets evenly over the mods and map file because I could not upload them to Blizzard's servers without timing out. I actually had to plug in and tether my iPhone to upload the first beta test a year ago (<5mb chunks). I could not use my DSL connection to upload it because it was simply too slow. Now that I have a new connection I am able to upload the 16.5mb asset file, but whether or not I can upload the sound assets I am not sure yet (using a caculator it says my cut off point is around 20mb) ... why does a 3 minute time limit exist in the first place? -_- at least make it like 5 or 10.
2) Theoritically you should only ever have to download the two "BIG" asset files once, which are around 80% of the total download needed to play Tofu. The same mods are used for all Tofu projects, so if you wanted to play any map, whether it be RPGs, Arenas, AOS or anything else we can think of, you would not have to redownload the big asset mods.
If we add new heroes you would have to download the Hero Assets mod, which contains Hero Art, Textures and Item Art but the rest would be fine. Again, if we decided to balance a hero, all you would have to download is the 300kb Data mod ... + of course the map because we cannot update the mod without updating everything above it ... which is a pretty poor design decision on Blizzard's behalf.
I understand why they did it, so that when you watch replays etc, it uses the correct data, but we should be able to check a box that says [\/] Always use latest available mod. That way we can update the 300kb Data file without forcing the players to redownload a 4mb map just for a single change of Mod Dependancy.
And in the spirit of sharing, this is what I am listening to while I write this:
@DogmaiSEA: Go
And so... the world continues to revolve...
...around you.
EDIT: I salute you, sir.
@DogmaiSEA: Go
26 mb of sounds? wow. Chatroom Contest has like 30 different sounds including background sound and it's less than 1 mb (1.5 mb the whole game).
Now my maps had on total about 1.8mb.
Fail troll is fail.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
Yeah, its a custom sound track, 7 tracks of about 3-5 mins long each ... compressed to mp3.
The reason I posted it is because during the beta a lot of people asked about putting in a custom sound track cause the game was really quite, and the current sizes of the mods we had. So I figured instead of sending the same message to half a dozen people, I would post it here for all to read. Because we are closing in to open beta status, the mod sizes, though they would change are near their final amounts.
Also, what else have I got to talk about on a map making forum except for the project I am working on -_- ...
sounds:
~ 20.5 mb (includes like 20 minutes of music, D1 sounds, ogg, compressed with audacity with quality 0 -> no big loss as files had poor Diablo 1 quality ;D)
models:
~ 3.5 mb (only m3 filesize)
images:
~ 4.5 mb (dds, dds files renamed to tga for smaller model textures)
progress in map:
-half of the monsters got a model, but I need a ton of doodad and a few wall models in addition to this
-sounds only need a few quest related sounds
-images are pretty much completed (-> only more textures for doodads/walls)
I've compressed every sound and every texture to cut filesize. I just started to use my second mod file as my mod files only include all my sounds atm.
I saved the most space with model textures. I just resized images from 1024x1024 to 196x196 and made the file use dds format (only editor complains, sc2 engine handles wrong specified filetypes correctly).
I assume your completely custom UI takes a lot of image space. :D
RuneCraft Map File ~ 2.94 MB (Data, Terrain, and a few imported images*)
RuneCraft Mod File ~ 8.72 MB (Imported images for UI, a few textures and models for unit reskins, models for the different mage skins)
Yea, I know, RuneCraft isn't the on the same level of "large project" as tofu or diablo, mostly due to us sticking to standard sc2 units to keep things simple for those who already know the game, but I wanted to post here anyway :p
The little * at the end of "a few imported images" is there because I only keep images in the map file that I frequently change (Usually during the time I'm first implementing them), right now for example I'm testing out custom buttons and changing their shading a lot, and I changing the mod file for every single change is just a waste of time atm and when I publish, people would have to download the huge mod file just for a few <100 KB images, so I'm leaving them in the map until I need to make a bigger update to the mod.
Also, anyone know whether a custom loading screen image being in a mod works? If I put the RC loading screen into the mod, I just end up with the blue placeholder image across my entire screen. But then, the loading screen is always slightly blurry until the game has loaded past a certain point during local tests, so it might be different online...
I dont know the exact file sizes for SCU (it wont be representative anyways since its still WIP), but ontopic, yes, its definatly a good idea to split data up. However we found that its very annoying when alpha-testing in battle.net, since it means more uploading work.
For the players its alot more comfortable though, since they will only have to download the pieces that changed when patching the game and also, for sure, there is the map/mod size limit (I cant remember how big the limit is atm) that you have to keep in mind.
As far as i know its necessary to re-upload all files that use the modified mod since all data needs to be re-verified in the editor. Since mods can contain script for example it has to check if the script is still used properly. (Removed methods/changed parameters etc)
It would be cool to be able to update a mod without having to re-upload all the stuff that uses it, but i doubt its technically possible and even if its possible it might cause alot of unexpected errors when modifying data thats used by the map, so i guess blizzard went for the save approach.
However, if you are planning to do multiple maps there is definatly no way around splitting up data anyways, since anything else would be very inefficient.
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Curse PremiumAbout the file size limit on battle.net. When you go over the limit (10mb right?), does that mean the map can't be played on battle.net, or does it just mean that you can not download from battle.net?
Works fine ... though I use TGA, if it is going blurry chances are you used a DDS with MipMaps.
Beats me but no one had any issues downloading the 15mb Asset file for Tofu.
Both of my big projects are about 20 mb, because I knew nothing about linking mods and been trying to fit 21 mb. Most of this volume is textures of imported models. Now I know how to enlarge *mine*, so actual project will be bigger then 20 mb, maybe I'll beat tofu.
I'm thinking AoS 2 will actually be relatively small. We've got some stuff that will bump up the size, but we've been keeping this very compact so far. Don't know the relevant numbers as well as EW, though.
AoS2 is still alive?
Very much so. Just going along quietly. Since the team is quite big we're all working on it at different moments, and a lot of stuff hasn't been consolidated yet.
I don't have the exact numbers but my Ikari Warriors map is around 2Mb (including 3 imported sounds)... I also uploaded a private version with imported soundtracks (in a single file), which is around 13Mb (8 tracks total). It's very modest compared to all the projects above, but I just wanted to make my point and say I don't see the point in making a map that large.
In my opinion, there is enough data in SC2 (and its official mods) to make an interesting map without importing hundreds of models, sounds, soundtracks, textures and such. The mod file for StarJeweled is around 3Mb, and this map is more popular than the other official Blizzard maps (Left 2 Die and Aiur Chef) respectively with 32Mb and 28Mb mod files. 70Mb for a single map is insane, and not in a good way (the conversion of the SC1 campaign uses a mod that size... for the whole thing!). You're just being too greedy. And besides, if your map fails to be popular this was all done for nothing...
Most people mod because they enjoy it; not because of popularity.
True enough, but something tells me that when you make a map worth 70Mb of data, you want it to become popular...
So I suppose its true that you can upload maps over 20 MB by using Dependencies... ?
@Crainy: Go
Yes. That said, we still have the 100mb overall upload limit.
Maps that weight too much fail at fun or not. Players last too long to download them and when they do, half the lobby has already gone. And as you may know when a lobby is full of players, no new players will enter the lobby if someone leaves.
I think I love you for bringing me that message.