Its certainly possible but getting it up there and having it stay there is hard. The problem with RPG's is that they tend to have poor replayability, it gets very repetitive after awhile.
IMO, For something to stay fun, the game should allow a different experience every time you play it. It should be unpredictable, but not too unpredictable. It shouldn't be too easy, nor should it be too hard. Easy to learn and hard to master. That way both new players and seasoned players can both have fun. On a side note, I detest open world RPG's as I feel they are being overdone and they are boring. You waste so much time walking around and not actually playing the game.
Perhaps some randomized events during boss battles could help with replayability (Starts at phase 1, 2, or 3, then goes to phase 4,5, or 6, then to 7,8,9) and also have a TON of items. Also have sufficiently flashy abilities without overdoing it to make satisfying gameplay which makes doing the fights entertaining. Also, regular content updates would help keep people playing a lot.
I voted for both character development and other. This is because I also believe that re-playability is a crucial factor - I've seen quite a few RPGs rise to the front page or near but then drop back down in a couple days which I think is attributed towards the lack of long-term goals. The map 'Mineralz', even though not really an RPG, it maintained to stay on the front pages for a long time because of its long-term goals (slow hero leveling to obtain unlocks); I believe that was an effective use of character development, but only subjectively high-quality - the downfall here was that the character development involved a large sum of afk farming.
Personally I enjoy a map with events that have multiple paths, not necessarily random (that can still be fun) - but choices that impact the long-term outcome. A relevant reason would be that in an RPG, different paths would have different loot that you could mix and match to maximise your characters efficiency; different paths providing different loot could allow a method to reflect on a characters role in a team environment (tank, healer, dps, ect).
I voted character development too, but I envision it from the story aspect. A story can get boring if the characters in it never improve, or if you can't really "feel" them if you get what I mean.
I'd take a look at WoW. Some people hate it, yes, but it's got something that keeps quite a few million people paying 15 bucks a month to play. It's because every time they play, there's just more stuff to do. Blizzard jam packed that game with content, and they're continually adding serious chunks of new content. Now, clearly you can't do things to the same scale in a published sc2 map. But you need to find a way to provide fresh content very frequently. I tend to like the idea of "world events". So that you feel like your living in an ever-changing world. Things happen that dynamically change the game, removing some content but adding more.
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I voted gameplay, and would say the map being a progressive challenge is also very important. One of the MOST annoying things RPGs ever do is having the content stay about the same difficulty or actually get EASIER the further you progress. Let the first half of it be for noobs/casual RPGers, make the next part a series of annoyingly hard gauntlets. Game is sorta freaking pointless without something to test your built up abilities and skills against. Just watch LOTR or something otherwise, let others adventure for you :P
Everything posted here so far is something I really agree to. This is great information for anyone looking into making an RPG map/mod for SC2 or any other engine.
Content updates are really important as it is mainstream of today's gamers. DLC, expansions, patches, etc all provide into the content updates that really keep a game living. The problem like mentioned above is how to get past that barrier of creating constant content for the players? I have thought to myself if that an RPG does get popular, then create additional maps to provide more content for the player base. For example, the first Map might have level 1-30 content in it, while the second map has 31-45 level content in it. Perhaps keep going on this route or something similar.
My question is, does anyone have any other suggestions on providing content to players in SC2?
In wc3 there were couple of decent rpgs I liked. None really went into story that much and had rather simple quests.
Things I would do for rpg:
Atleast 12 skills per class (both active and passive skills) and each several levels.
Getting items is important/cool. Bosses have chance to drop rares and uniques.
Questing is done properly. I have no idea why some rpgs add like 10 pages of text and then you need to gather 3 wolf pelts...It just doesnt work in wc3/sc2. I would still to rather simple quests and you dont have to listen to ranting. If you want to add more "deep" quests then there should be proper animations, moving camera, actions etc that help to deliver the story and not just stand and read....
Different areas to explore (towns and dungeons). Well build towns have easy to locate shops and quest givers.
I suppose those 4 things could get me hooked for a while. I do not think RPG can stay on page1 for massive amount of time, but it definetly should be able to make it to page1 if done correctly.
I dont even remember what got me playing defiance rpg in wc3. It has been very long but for some reason I liked to play it even though technical aspect wasnt that amazing as far as I can remeber.
I wouldn't consider paying for anything that only has pointless quests and no story (PS: Not to imply those are qualities of your idea). But that's just me. The reason would probably be because I'm strongly opposed against MMORPG's.
I would expect people to pay 1-5d. But naturally if you want a premium map I think it needs to have solid single player content. I dont think Iv seen any wc3 or sc2 story driven RPG though...even the single player campaigns Iv played always seemed somewhat lacking...
Who knows how the SC2 Arcade will be set up, but I sincerely doubt that a RPG will ever, ever have a chance at cracking the overall top 10 (probably even top 20, sorry) - but specific game types may get their own tabs or submenus, if that's the case you may just be able to pull off the #1 RPG... chances are good, since every one I have ever played in SC2 was terrible.
I agree that I also wouldn't pay for a map so that I can experience a good story. I'd rather play a real game for that, rather than something very small such as SC2. So, I'd definitely be looking into the gameplay before I actually buy it.
Well, there have been a few RPGs in the past that have made top 10 for a short duration. But I've never seen one maintain it's position. I don't think the teams that are working on RPG projects right now are looking to hit the top popularity lists, although it would be nice. I haven't played any great SC2 RPGs myself either. I'm looking forward to seeing how SCU turns out when it is released. With it's recent release of the dev preview, I may not be so inclined to pay for it anymore, though. I'm hoping that they throw some new gameplay footage at us sometime soon.
That aside, here's a screenshot of the RPG I'm currently working on where I focus on the concept of easy to play, hard to master. I go for a very simplified look on the UI while still maintaining organization and friendliness. There is a planned 800 spells (10 are currently done, lol), large maps, 200 quests, few 14 player raids, and other maps. I've recently been thinking about my work and wondering if it's all for naught, thus I ask for questions from the community and their opinions. I would really like this map to be successful, even if it's just a little bit. I use completely new mechanics for it, I don't use SC2's auto attack, cast bars, inventory system, equipment system, or hero system. The only thing I do use is their models, textures, and stuff like that. Do you think a project like mine I just mentioned is worthy of being on the marketplace and would it be successful? If not, what areas should I improve on or what suggestions do you have? Sorry if this thread is getting OT, but thanks in advance guys.
PS: The screenshot shown shows off a new gameplay mechanic I call "Dual Casting".
Strangely.. Since a month or two ago, I've been playing on NA servers from SEA and I found that I have less than 100ms latency with any key inputs. This is very playable. I'm not sure if it's related to the number of players in game or not, but I find it pretty surprising. I don't know if blizzard improved their servers or if my ISP suddenly got better.
In your opinion, do you think it would be possible for an RPG genre map to make it to the top 10 in the popularity list?
(Yes, you can mention Dragon RPG here)
Its certainly possible but getting it up there and having it stay there is hard. The problem with RPG's is that they tend to have poor replayability, it gets very repetitive after awhile.
IMO, For something to stay fun, the game should allow a different experience every time you play it. It should be unpredictable, but not too unpredictable. It shouldn't be too easy, nor should it be too hard. Easy to learn and hard to master. That way both new players and seasoned players can both have fun. On a side note, I detest open world RPG's as I feel they are being overdone and they are boring. You waste so much time walking around and not actually playing the game.
Items, items, items! No one remember the good old WC3 days of killing massive amounts of units for a massive amounts of useless items?
@Enexy: Go
Perhaps some randomized events during boss battles could help with replayability (Starts at phase 1, 2, or 3, then goes to phase 4,5, or 6, then to 7,8,9) and also have a TON of items. Also have sufficiently flashy abilities without overdoing it to make satisfying gameplay which makes doing the fights entertaining. Also, regular content updates would help keep people playing a lot.
I voted for both character development and other. This is because I also believe that re-playability is a crucial factor - I've seen quite a few RPGs rise to the front page or near but then drop back down in a couple days which I think is attributed towards the lack of long-term goals. The map 'Mineralz', even though not really an RPG, it maintained to stay on the front pages for a long time because of its long-term goals (slow hero leveling to obtain unlocks); I believe that was an effective use of character development, but only subjectively high-quality - the downfall here was that the character development involved a large sum of afk farming.
Personally I enjoy a map with events that have multiple paths, not necessarily random (that can still be fun) - but choices that impact the long-term outcome. A relevant reason would be that in an RPG, different paths would have different loot that you could mix and match to maximise your characters efficiency; different paths providing different loot could allow a method to reflect on a characters role in a team environment (tank, healer, dps, ect).
I voted character development too, but I envision it from the story aspect. A story can get boring if the characters in it never improve, or if you can't really "feel" them if you get what I mean.
@FuzzYD: Go
I'd take a look at WoW. Some people hate it, yes, but it's got something that keeps quite a few million people paying 15 bucks a month to play. It's because every time they play, there's just more stuff to do. Blizzard jam packed that game with content, and they're continually adding serious chunks of new content. Now, clearly you can't do things to the same scale in a published sc2 map. But you need to find a way to provide fresh content very frequently. I tend to like the idea of "world events". So that you feel like your living in an ever-changing world. Things happen that dynamically change the game, removing some content but adding more.
I voted gameplay, and would say the map being a progressive challenge is also very important. One of the MOST annoying things RPGs ever do is having the content stay about the same difficulty or actually get EASIER the further you progress. Let the first half of it be for noobs/casual RPGers, make the next part a series of annoyingly hard gauntlets. Game is sorta freaking pointless without something to test your built up abilities and skills against. Just watch LOTR or something otherwise, let others adventure for you :P
@FuzzYD: Go
This basically sums it up. You can certainly break through to the top but there is little to no chance of staying there.
Everything posted here so far is something I really agree to. This is great information for anyone looking into making an RPG map/mod for SC2 or any other engine.
Content updates are really important as it is mainstream of today's gamers. DLC, expansions, patches, etc all provide into the content updates that really keep a game living. The problem like mentioned above is how to get past that barrier of creating constant content for the players? I have thought to myself if that an RPG does get popular, then create additional maps to provide more content for the player base. For example, the first Map might have level 1-30 content in it, while the second map has 31-45 level content in it. Perhaps keep going on this route or something similar.
My question is, does anyone have any other suggestions on providing content to players in SC2?
In wc3 there were couple of decent rpgs I liked. None really went into story that much and had rather simple quests.
Things I would do for rpg:
I suppose those 4 things could get me hooked for a while. I do not think RPG can stay on page1 for massive amount of time, but it definetly should be able to make it to page1 if done correctly.
I dont even remember what got me playing defiance rpg in wc3. It has been very long but for some reason I liked to play it even though technical aspect wasnt that amazing as far as I can remeber.
My next question would be:
Would you pay for a SC2 RPG that delivers what you'd expect? If so, how much is your maximum?
@Enexy: Go
I'd pay for a well made RPG with plenty of content. Price would probably range from 1 to 10$ depending on the quality.
@Enexy: Go
I wouldn't consider paying for anything that only has pointless quests and no story (PS: Not to imply those are qualities of your idea). But that's just me. The reason would probably be because I'm strongly opposed against MMORPG's.
I would expect people to pay 1-5d. But naturally if you want a premium map I think it needs to have solid single player content. I dont think Iv seen any wc3 or sc2 story driven RPG though...even the single player campaigns Iv played always seemed somewhat lacking...
Who knows how the SC2 Arcade will be set up, but I sincerely doubt that a RPG will ever, ever have a chance at cracking the overall top 10 (probably even top 20, sorry) - but specific game types may get their own tabs or submenus, if that's the case you may just be able to pull off the #1 RPG... chances are good, since every one I have ever played in SC2 was terrible.
@zenx1: Go
I agree that I also wouldn't pay for a map so that I can experience a good story. I'd rather play a real game for that, rather than something very small such as SC2. So, I'd definitely be looking into the gameplay before I actually buy it.
@Batomys: Go
Well, there have been a few RPGs in the past that have made top 10 for a short duration. But I've never seen one maintain it's position. I don't think the teams that are working on RPG projects right now are looking to hit the top popularity lists, although it would be nice. I haven't played any great SC2 RPGs myself either. I'm looking forward to seeing how SCU turns out when it is released. With it's recent release of the dev preview, I may not be so inclined to pay for it anymore, though. I'm hoping that they throw some new gameplay footage at us sometime soon.
That aside, here's a screenshot of the RPG I'm currently working on where I focus on the concept of easy to play, hard to master. I go for a very simplified look on the UI while still maintaining organization and friendliness. There is a planned 800 spells (10 are currently done, lol), large maps, 200 quests, few 14 player raids, and other maps. I've recently been thinking about my work and wondering if it's all for naught, thus I ask for questions from the community and their opinions. I would really like this map to be successful, even if it's just a little bit. I use completely new mechanics for it, I don't use SC2's auto attack, cast bars, inventory system, equipment system, or hero system. The only thing I do use is their models, textures, and stuff like that. Do you think a project like mine I just mentioned is worthy of being on the marketplace and would it be successful? If not, what areas should I improve on or what suggestions do you have? Sorry if this thread is getting OT, but thanks in advance guys.
PS: The screenshot shown shows off a new gameplay mechanic I call "Dual Casting".
Also if the RPG is wasd control with current bnet. I would pay -5d.
@zenx1: Go
Hahaha... that makes me sad.
Though, they have improved the servers since patch 1.4. It's about half the delay of what it was before. (Maybe 100ms delay with a good connection?)
@zenx1: Go
Strangely.. Since a month or two ago, I've been playing on NA servers from SEA and I found that I have less than 100ms latency with any key inputs. This is very playable. I'm not sure if it's related to the number of players in game or not, but I find it pretty surprising. I don't know if blizzard improved their servers or if my ISP suddenly got better.