Just thought I'd throw this out here to get some perspectives:
I'm making a map and I tend to just GO! and not be really organized... for example: I've made about 3 periodic triggers that check things, or do things, ever 1 second. I also am aware that I could optimize my triggers, making them more efficient, by putting them into action definitions. I guess you could say my triggering is either lazy, sloppy, thoughtless, illogical, and/or inconsiderate?? lol idk I just know that when the ideas hit I don't concern myself with organization.
My issue right now is, "Is it even worth it?"
The game is in progress; if I clean up now I will add new triggers later anyway, of which will probably land under the labels I've provided above. If I do NOT clean up now, I may miss out on a solid foundation for smooth gameplay... either that or eventually the mess will get so big that my triggers will just be like a word search.. with no words to be found.
So, here's the final question for you; based off your own personal experience (no modesty, just honesty)... Do you clean as you go, or do you steam roll through? And is organization important to you?
It's definitely easier for me to stay motivated with a project when I take the time to make the triggers neat and organized.
It's also easier to come back to after a break, from either a few days to months, when you know there aren't going to be hidden functions in a number of possible locations. I have several systems for organization which make things more time consuming initially, but turn out easier to modify and improve later on.
I wouldn't say that sloppy triggers directly impact the game. My brother has very sloppy triggers, while mine are relatively tidy, and his games turn out way more fun and take less time to make. Just saying, it's not all that matters in the end.
To answer your question, I rarely make something messy with the intention of cleaning it later, I just do it right from the start.
So, here's my reality: I can't work on my older projects because it would take me more than a few hours to backtrack everything to understand how it works, and even then I'd have to adjust to code I despise which isn't how I want to spend my time.
Thus, in my latest map I'm trying to make everything structured, commented and easy to read, so when I return from breaks I could easily pick it up and alter/add stuff. After all, doing that adds enthusiasm and keeps map alive. Folders, instructions/explanations, self-explanatory local variable names (I'm not even reusing them when I could, just making new ones only for sake of understanding what's what seconds after looking over trigger), I know if I mess this up, map will die, and that would suck.
This said, I'm not making everything the best it can be right from the beginning. Oftentimes I need to add a functionality, or a prototype to see how game will run/play with that addition. A quick and dirty sketch that gets the job done. Though if I keep on adding in at some point I come back and rework whole thing to be more elegant/flexible.
Right now I have a bunch of "dialog item used" triggers and I'm not even thinking about combining them together. Still too much dialog work to be done ahead, and too much uncertainty, so I'll work on that when I feel it's time.
I usually keep a basic structure and have sloppy-ish triggers at first, and then optimize them later on in the polishing stage. Though I always keep triggers into organized folders (ie general, gameplay, cinematics) and subfolders (ie objectives, systems).
I guess, for the most part, I keep them organized and readable enough for me to understand them, especially if it's WC3, where I don't really care as much if triggers are inefficient, since there's barely any performance impact for me/my friends. :P But if I'm going to release the map publicly, then I clean/document them more than I normally would.
I usually clean things up once I am done with it. (before that It feels that I may do something uselessly) Though on the long run it made some of my maps messy.
The biggest problem I find about me, that I am lazy to think good organized variable names out.
Absolutely yes. Oganizization helps to learn and avoid code duplication. You wont have to change things on multiple places in well organized code. It makes you save plenty of lines of code. It much easier to read, especially if its been a long time you worked on the map. If I had been cleaner in the past I would be able to add more features more easily.
my folder and trigger structure looks pretty much like the one from blizzard. I have a lot of code that works without events, but is fired by other triggers instead. So each trigger serves a specific function, one I can use as the trigger-name.
When you come back to your map after a year to update it organization is a life saver especially if your code become over 1000 lines.
Also if you want to be a programmer, you need to learn organization. Many companies require that your code is organized to their specifications and no one will want to program with a messy coder. get into the habit now
When you come back to your map after a year to update it organization is a life saver especially if your code become over 1000 lines.
Also if you want to be a programmer, you need to learn organization. Many companies require that your code is organized to their specifications and no one will want to program with a messy coder. get into the habit now
1000 lines? o.o I feel weird now, I have 4000 lines in my main triggers map.galaxy file and I'm not even halfway done with it yet lol.
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Curse PremiumJust thought I'd throw this out here to get some perspectives:
I'm making a map and I tend to just GO! and not be really organized... for example: I've made about 3 periodic triggers that check things, or do things, ever 1 second. I also am aware that I could optimize my triggers, making them more efficient, by putting them into action definitions. I guess you could say my triggering is either lazy, sloppy, thoughtless, illogical, and/or inconsiderate?? lol idk I just know that when the ideas hit I don't concern myself with organization.
My issue right now is, "Is it even worth it?"
The game is in progress; if I clean up now I will add new triggers later anyway, of which will probably land under the labels I've provided above. If I do NOT clean up now, I may miss out on a solid foundation for smooth gameplay... either that or eventually the mess will get so big that my triggers will just be like a word search.. with no words to be found.
So, here's the final question for you; based off your own personal experience (no modesty, just honesty)... Do you clean as you go, or do you steam roll through? And is organization important to you?
"You either are doing it, or you are not": Me
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@DarcZaFire: Go
It's definitely easier for me to stay motivated with a project when I take the time to make the triggers neat and organized.
It's also easier to come back to after a break, from either a few days to months, when you know there aren't going to be hidden functions in a number of possible locations. I have several systems for organization which make things more time consuming initially, but turn out easier to modify and improve later on.
I wouldn't say that sloppy triggers directly impact the game. My brother has very sloppy triggers, while mine are relatively tidy, and his games turn out way more fun and take less time to make. Just saying, it's not all that matters in the end.
To answer your question, I rarely make something messy with the intention of cleaning it later, I just do it right from the start.
@DarcZaFire: Go
So, here's my reality: I can't work on my older projects because it would take me more than a few hours to backtrack everything to understand how it works, and even then I'd have to adjust to code I despise which isn't how I want to spend my time.
Thus, in my latest map I'm trying to make everything structured, commented and easy to read, so when I return from breaks I could easily pick it up and alter/add stuff. After all, doing that adds enthusiasm and keeps map alive. Folders, instructions/explanations, self-explanatory local variable names (I'm not even reusing them when I could, just making new ones only for sake of understanding what's what seconds after looking over trigger), I know if I mess this up, map will die, and that would suck.
This said, I'm not making everything the best it can be right from the beginning. Oftentimes I need to add a functionality, or a prototype to see how game will run/play with that addition. A quick and dirty sketch that gets the job done. Though if I keep on adding in at some point I come back and rework whole thing to be more elegant/flexible.
Right now I have a bunch of "dialog item used" triggers and I'm not even thinking about combining them together. Still too much dialog work to be done ahead, and too much uncertainty, so I'll work on that when I feel it's time.
But yea.. whatever works.
@DarcZaFire: Go
Messy code stacked on top of itself will also prevent you entirely from implementing things that you want to later on.
I usually keep a basic structure and have sloppy-ish triggers at first, and then optimize them later on in the polishing stage. Though I always keep triggers into organized folders (ie general, gameplay, cinematics) and subfolders (ie objectives, systems).
I guess, for the most part, I keep them organized and readable enough for me to understand them, especially if it's WC3, where I don't really care as much if triggers are inefficient, since there's barely any performance impact for me/my friends. :P But if I'm going to release the map publicly, then I clean/document them more than I normally would.
I usually clean things up once I am done with it. (before that It feels that I may do something uselessly) Though on the long run it made some of my maps messy.
The biggest problem I find about me, that I am lazy to think good organized variable names out.
Also ctrl+f can help lot!
Absolutely yes. Oganizization helps to learn and avoid code duplication. You wont have to change things on multiple places in well organized code. It makes you save plenty of lines of code. It much easier to read, especially if its been a long time you worked on the map. If I had been cleaner in the past I would be able to add more features more easily.
my folder and trigger structure looks pretty much like the one from blizzard. I have a lot of code that works without events, but is fired by other triggers instead. So each trigger serves a specific function, one I can use as the trigger-name.
Take a look at blizzard maps!
@DarcZaFire: Go
When you come back to your map after a year to update it organization is a life saver especially if your code become over 1000 lines.
Also if you want to be a programmer, you need to learn organization. Many companies require that your code is organized to their specifications and no one will want to program with a messy coder. get into the habit now
1000 lines? o.o I feel weird now, I have 4000 lines in my main triggers map.galaxy file and I'm not even halfway done with it yet lol.
That is fine. its not about how much it is. its about how often it running and how long its taking to complete.