Just wanted to say *high five*. Woulda posted this in your thread but i just got a 30 day suspension from bnet the other day for telling blizzard to "suck my @$$hole". Probably not the brightest thing to do but it was Saturday and i was on a good one.
To anyone thinking these posts are too angry and indecent, i doubt you've spent months on a map trying to make something groundbreaking and realized there are tangible obstacles in your way that no one in a position to fix them has acknowledged or made changes to. You are literally working for free on a project that could potentially only benefit blizzard and the mod players themselves and it is these 2 benefactors who are largely in the way of your progress. It is infuriating, and it really peeks about a week after your mod disappears off the list. Just weeks after you're king of the world seeing your mod reach a point that it should actually start having consistent plays on it and a bit of notoriety. It's easy to say "it wasn't good enough" that's why it didn't make it. When you're a mod maker working for free, the idea that your map is only playable when it has the polish of a mod that's had user feedback for months on end with tons of community support to see you through the polish phases is ridiculous.
The world keeps spinning round though, most people working for these companies (even blizzard) these days just want their paycheck at the end of two weeks. No one's trying to make the next great game, they just want to bust out the next sequel without too much headache. I like to think at the very least we're helping to entertain the customer service staff :D.
To be fair i was being a drunk douche bag and saying my map cosmic eclipse could have been the next DOTA. My map wasn't THAT good at the time of its uploading to bnet (though i think it had tons of potential), who knows where it could have been at this point had it actually gotten some play time and community backing trough a popularity system that wasn't so constricting to new mods.
I'm pretty glad it's gone, if you thought meph's recent post was bad... whew.
Edit: BTW, I don't think a map with unique gameplay instantly qualifies as better than a map that uses more of SC2's core gameplay. But the way the system works now is that new map will be stifled and beaten into the dirt before it has a chance to grow.
hmmm... I don't like the idea of Blizzard trying to compete with SotiS, because they cheat. Blizzard Dota has achievements, more than 10mb, custom models made by skilled designers, it will be featured, etc. They even announced a possible match-making system for it. :P
I think there are serious problems with the popularity system but this kind of "herp derp I made SmashCraft, your map sucks, I deserve moar popularity" derping is stupid.
Sit back, make some maps that you think others will enjoy, and play them with your friends. I make maps for fun, and it's way more exciting than making my maps for the 12-year-old masses.
Mephs said a lot of things I kind of agree with. Both as a player and map-maker.
Edit: Want to be clear, I agree about playing most maps only once. My issue is that I played most of the mentioned maps once in beta when they were in a much rawer state, and that was enough for me. I think a lot of us want much more variation and we had it for a bit with volatile popularity...
It's frustrating to see something you worked on hard get shot down to the bottom and not played. But hey, it happens. People don't all like the same things. A lot of maps deserve to get more play time and visibility, but sadly that's just not the case.
So yeah, I see where Mephs is coming from, but ultimately I think he needs to sit back, relax, and realize he's made a great niche map, but that's all it can be. He's certainly proven his abilities are beyond that of the average SC2 mapper, and I think that should be enough.
SC2 is a game, make your maps for your enjoyment, it's way more fun. Then hop on later with your buddies and show off how awesome you are. :P
Doesn't justify the hard work. As stated in other threads there are other platforms mappers could have tried and seen tangible rewards from. Long story short blizzard lied to us about SC2 and its popularity and marketplace system. Lesson learned i guess. It's fruitless to sit around these forums and dwell on it, but after pouring months of planning and modding into something it tends to stick in your head.
Edit: Anyway glad to see some passion on the boards. Right or wrong this is where change can happen! Just wish i weren't suspended so i could post more and keep this stuff bumped.
The editor was probably over-hyped the way they went on about it at Blizzcon and such, or maybe they promised more than what was delivered. I don't know or care anymore.
The custom mapping scene isn't much compared to Warcraft 3. Yes it did take years to develop, but I don't want to have to wait for the next 2 expansions (which is at least 3 years) to see major developments in the editor and the support for it.
People are just giving up these days and I don't blame them.
The support from Blizzard that the community needs isn't here. LOL at the official wiki.
The Blizzcon maps were a slap in the face to some. "We are using the same tools you are."
I could go on, but I won't; everyone already knows these issues, even Blizzard.
Mephs' post is childish and self-fellating.
Smashcraft is well produced, but missing an essential element: fun.
Edit: Mephs, I don't have anything against you, and your post has many valid complaints, but kicking over other people's sandcastles is not the way to make your voice heard.
Mephs' post is childish and self-fellating. Smashcraft is well produced, but missing an essential element: fun.
I cant believe these idiots...
Smascraft is fun. Its pretty much top2 favourites for me in sc2. Its just plain sad blizzard doesnt give a chance for players who want to play different maps. Even if its not super popular doesnt mean the map is bad, thus it is so stupid that only a handful of maps can be played without friends..
Oh and with decent lobby system the games would be so much more fun!. If you could even acces bank info in lobby that would help A LOT. Now you have to play random noobs every time and that also reason why some maps are less enjoyable (the random retards just dont know how to play)
and I would also like to add. Since the popularity system is sooo bad. It is certain that some very talented map makers will quit. There is no reason to make maps and there is no point in waiting for awesome maps to pop out since they will be doomed to stay down in the list...
I have already accepted that bnet 2.0 is what it is. Blizzard has had the time to react and try to fix the popularity system, but clearly they do not care. I will continue doing maps whenever I feel like it, but I wont spend as much time to it as I have spent before...Alltough I think it would be best to just quit map making completely just to respond to how awfull custom game system is...It wouldnt change anything, but would make me feel a little bit better for "protesting" against blizzard -.-
Just because a few people like the map doesn't make it good. You're what we call a niche group, a small but close group of people who like a specific map genre, namely SmashCraft.
The majority of people have expressed similar re-playability concerns.
Smashcraft is a ton of fun, besides the different heroes I think it lacks replay-ability to an extent, it has some, but it seems like its just missing one little thing...I'm not saying its a bad map, its really fun, but it just needs more replay-ability.
Concerning the thread, I really like what he said, Blizzard has not really shown any care to us map makers. :(
lol? Now im seriosly thinking of quiting mapping. Even sc2 mapster is begining to be full of retards.
If you are implying smascraft is bad because most of SC2 people dont like it, you are truly a big retard.
You can clearly see Smascraft is a polished, well made map. And it IS a good map. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it bad map...Im so pissed right now....and then again you assume you know what I like.
I have not mocked the top maps. I do not like them, but they might be good maps for their genre. So I cannot believe why these retard come popping out and dont understand the problem with the popularity.
The post was very bad in a lot of ways, but I can't fault mephs because he had a reason to be upset. However, everyone (even blizzard) knows the system is bad and rants like that don't really help.
No offense.... but if you didnt realize there wasnt much reward in mapping from the start then your.... kinda stupid IMO.....
as for the debate about "SmashCraft" meph does do good work. But that map isnt all that exciting to me ... and I love DOTA and LOL.
Theres nothing in "SmashCraft" that really makes me want to play it.
Zenx1 i dont blame you for being fustrated..... but why did you ever get involved in the first place? I would think a love for creating something was part of that begining.
Maybe the SC2 scene isnt for you. Theres tons of other options out there to express your creativity.
I in no way have anything against Mephs. but as an example Im gonna pick at "SmashCraft" a bit just so we can have some reletive information on why you think its good?
my dislikes
There is no atuo attack (im not a fan of that)
Heros move around way to fast making them difficult to click on
Theres no leveling
there no creeping
theres no items
you just run arround and kill other heros
terrain may look pretty but unlike dota theres no "hiding" in fog of war for tactical stratagy
Thing that make it polished... but dont really affect the "fun factor"
The sounds are good
The custom images are good
The terrain is pretty
The terrain swapping is kinda sexy
The UI is well done
Meph makes pretty good spells in the data editor ( Ive thought this ever since his "Surivors VS Swarm" aka "left4death")
All around nice selection of heros to choose from
Good attempt to balance the game play
those are all great things to have but they dont make a game fun in my book
Not that I am assuming I can make better or any such thing. I have a few people who enjoy my TD but thats about it.
But I do not piss and moan about it. I work in the editor because I enjoy it. If i didnt enjoy it I wouldnt do it. When I get bored of it I take breaks.
i remember in my days i love the maps were you needed some sort of skill like micro be fast etc thats what i liked but nowadays i can see most new players just like to play the mass units no brain combat and shiny effects games :P
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Just wanted to say *high five*. Woulda posted this in your thread but i just got a 30 day suspension from bnet the other day for telling blizzard to "suck my @$$hole". Probably not the brightest thing to do but it was Saturday and i was on a good one.
To anyone thinking these posts are too angry and indecent, i doubt you've spent months on a map trying to make something groundbreaking and realized there are tangible obstacles in your way that no one in a position to fix them has acknowledged or made changes to. You are literally working for free on a project that could potentially only benefit blizzard and the mod players themselves and it is these 2 benefactors who are largely in the way of your progress. It is infuriating, and it really peeks about a week after your mod disappears off the list. Just weeks after you're king of the world seeing your mod reach a point that it should actually start having consistent plays on it and a bit of notoriety. It's easy to say "it wasn't good enough" that's why it didn't make it. When you're a mod maker working for free, the idea that your map is only playable when it has the polish of a mod that's had user feedback for months on end with tons of community support to see you through the polish phases is ridiculous.
The world keeps spinning round though, most people working for these companies (even blizzard) these days just want their paycheck at the end of two weeks. No one's trying to make the next great game, they just want to bust out the next sequel without too much headache. I like to think at the very least we're helping to entertain the customer service staff :D.
Oh the post is long gone now, here's a link to its nothingness if you want to see it Rodrigo: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2065778579#7
To be fair i was being a drunk douche bag and saying my map cosmic eclipse could have been the next DOTA. My map wasn't THAT good at the time of its uploading to bnet (though i think it had tons of potential), who knows where it could have been at this point had it actually gotten some play time and community backing trough a popularity system that wasn't so constricting to new mods.
I'm pretty glad it's gone, if you thought meph's recent post was bad... whew.
Edit: BTW, I don't think a map with unique gameplay instantly qualifies as better than a map that uses more of SC2's core gameplay. But the way the system works now is that new map will be stifled and beaten into the dirt before it has a chance to grow.
hmmm... I don't like the idea of Blizzard trying to compete with SotiS, because they cheat. Blizzard Dota has achievements, more than 10mb, custom models made by skilled designers, it will be featured, etc. They even announced a possible match-making system for it. :P
By the way, I thought you were talking about this thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2089109443
@RodrigoAlves: Go
I think there are serious problems with the popularity system but this kind of "herp derp I made SmashCraft, your map sucks, I deserve moar popularity" derping is stupid.
Sit back, make some maps that you think others will enjoy, and play them with your friends. I make maps for fun, and it's way more exciting than making my maps for the 12-year-old masses.
Mephs said a lot of things I kind of agree with. Both as a player and map-maker.
Edit: Want to be clear, I agree about playing most maps only once. My issue is that I played most of the mentioned maps once in beta when they were in a much rawer state, and that was enough for me. I think a lot of us want much more variation and we had it for a bit with volatile popularity...
@OneTwoSC: Go
It's frustrating to see something you worked on hard get shot down to the bottom and not played. But hey, it happens. People don't all like the same things. A lot of maps deserve to get more play time and visibility, but sadly that's just not the case.
So yeah, I see where Mephs is coming from, but ultimately I think he needs to sit back, relax, and realize he's made a great niche map, but that's all it can be. He's certainly proven his abilities are beyond that of the average SC2 mapper, and I think that should be enough.
SC2 is a game, make your maps for your enjoyment, it's way more fun. Then hop on later with your buddies and show off how awesome you are. :P
Doesn't justify the hard work. As stated in other threads there are other platforms mappers could have tried and seen tangible rewards from. Long story short blizzard lied to us about SC2 and its popularity and marketplace system. Lesson learned i guess. It's fruitless to sit around these forums and dwell on it, but after pouring months of planning and modding into something it tends to stick in your head.
Edit: Anyway glad to see some passion on the boards. Right or wrong this is where change can happen! Just wish i weren't suspended so i could post more and keep this stuff bumped.
So far it's a way more rewarding to make a flash game for SC2Mapster than a custom map. The flash game will get a way more players and feedback.
I'll keep that thread bumped to serve as a constant reminder to Blizzard that they need to stop ignoring us.
I agree with a lot of this as well.
The editor was probably over-hyped the way they went on about it at Blizzcon and such, or maybe they promised more than what was delivered. I don't know or care anymore.
The custom mapping scene isn't much compared to Warcraft 3. Yes it did take years to develop, but I don't want to have to wait for the next 2 expansions (which is at least 3 years) to see major developments in the editor and the support for it.
People are just giving up these days and I don't blame them.
I could go on, but I won't; everyone already knows these issues, even Blizzard.
Mephs' post is childish and self-fellating. Smashcraft is well produced, but missing an essential element: fun.
Edit: Mephs, I don't have anything against you, and your post has many valid complaints, but kicking over other people's sandcastles is not the way to make your voice heard.
And its replay-ability.
I cant believe these idiots...
Smascraft is fun. Its pretty much top2 favourites for me in sc2. Its just plain sad blizzard doesnt give a chance for players who want to play different maps. Even if its not super popular doesnt mean the map is bad, thus it is so stupid that only a handful of maps can be played without friends..
Oh and with decent lobby system the games would be so much more fun!. If you could even acces bank info in lobby that would help A LOT. Now you have to play random noobs every time and that also reason why some maps are less enjoyable (the random retards just dont know how to play)
and I would also like to add. Since the popularity system is sooo bad. It is certain that some very talented map makers will quit. There is no reason to make maps and there is no point in waiting for awesome maps to pop out since they will be doomed to stay down in the list...
I have already accepted that bnet 2.0 is what it is. Blizzard has had the time to react and try to fix the popularity system, but clearly they do not care. I will continue doing maps whenever I feel like it, but I wont spend as much time to it as I have spent before...Alltough I think it would be best to just quit map making completely just to respond to how awfull custom game system is...It wouldnt change anything, but would make me feel a little bit better for "protesting" against blizzard -.-
@zenx1: Go
Just because a few people like the map doesn't make it good. You're what we call a niche group, a small but close group of people who like a specific map genre, namely SmashCraft.
The majority of people have expressed similar re-playability concerns.
Smashcraft is a ton of fun, besides the different heroes I think it lacks replay-ability to an extent, it has some, but it seems like its just missing one little thing...I'm not saying its a bad map, its really fun, but it just needs more replay-ability.
Concerning the thread, I really like what he said, Blizzard has not really shown any care to us map makers. :(
@MotiveMe: Go
lol? Now im seriosly thinking of quiting mapping. Even sc2 mapster is begining to be full of retards.
If you are implying smascraft is bad because most of SC2 people dont like it, you are truly a big retard.
You can clearly see Smascraft is a polished, well made map. And it IS a good map. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it bad map...Im so pissed right now....and then again you assume you know what I like.
I have not mocked the top maps. I do not like them, but they might be good maps for their genre. So I cannot believe why these retard come popping out and dont understand the problem with the popularity.
fuck this bullshit.
fucking retards.
The post was very bad in a lot of ways, but I can't fault mephs because he had a reason to be upset. However, everyone (even blizzard) knows the system is bad and rants like that don't really help.
@zenx1: Go
No offense.... but if you didnt realize there wasnt much reward in mapping from the start then your.... kinda stupid IMO.....
as for the debate about "SmashCraft" meph does do good work. But that map isnt all that exciting to me ... and I love DOTA and LOL.
Theres nothing in "SmashCraft" that really makes me want to play it.
Zenx1 i dont blame you for being fustrated..... but why did you ever get involved in the first place? I would think a love for creating something was part of that begining.
Maybe the SC2 scene isnt for you. Theres tons of other options out there to express your creativity.
I in no way have anything against Mephs. but as an example Im gonna pick at "SmashCraft" a bit just so we can have some reletive information on why you think its good?
my dislikes
Thing that make it polished... but dont really affect the "fun factor"
those are all great things to have but they dont make a game fun in my book
Not that I am assuming I can make better or any such thing. I have a few people who enjoy my TD but thats about it.
But I do not piss and moan about it. I work in the editor because I enjoy it. If i didnt enjoy it I wouldnt do it. When I get bored of it I take breaks.
i think its all about whos playing SC2 now
i remember in my days i love the maps were you needed some sort of skill like micro be fast etc thats what i liked but nowadays i can see most new players just like to play the mass units no brain combat and shiny effects games :P