@houndofbaskerville: Go A world where a perma-banned guy creates a new accout every day only to post his biased point of views before the moderators ban this new account.
1. Curse and Blizzard came into a deal so that only mapster was supported, This caused Hive workshop, Sen and a few others to pretty much have no chance, so some people switched, the rest just quit.
That sounds like some conspiracy nonsense. Idk what Sen is (Sen, the Zerg player from Taiwan? lol) but every site chooses its own direction and Hive has made this choice pretty clear even though I even offered them to make a switch. I could blame it all on their owner after having been there for many years and now that we don't like each other and we had our wars there. Though, now that I think - a site devoted to StarCraft which mapster seems to have been before I even came here will naturally get more people than a site that has to make a transition from one game (war3) to SC2.
Overall I can say SC2Mapster is one of the most helpful communities, I've heard of sc2legacy, but here there are many people to help. It doesn't matter if few moderators don't help when many other members and mods are quite helpful here and on the irc chat.
Oh and yes, I personally also dislike trashtalk (call me an elitist but I have no such relation towards Arcade just in general), so if you learn to not get banned on TL.net you will be pro at using a forum ")
I made maps on sc1 up until sc2, the year sc2 came out I opened the editor all of once, spent a few hours messing with terrain then looked at triggers and data and went psh... not happening, would have taken the same amount of effort to code a game from scratch as with sc2 editor with no resources back then.
Years later, now just about every issue or possible trigger combination has a thread with Q&A for it, the majority of which are on sc2mapster, also some on hive, and this one other sc2 forum site, it's relatively easy to learn and use the editor finally similar to sc1.
I've been learning the sc2 editor as I make a map for 2-4 months, and I've already figured out just about everything from terrain/textures, custom actor/model, requirement/validators data, custom UI layouts, all sorts of ways to use dialogs, multi array variables, and all sorts of goodies through the various threads.
There's a lot more parts to it than the sc1 editor still, but it just means that much more can be done using it, the hardest part to learn going from sc1 editor was how to use the indirect specify X player/ X unit triggers, all methods of specifying just about anything in sc2 editor feel like you have to use round-about methods compared to sc1, using general events/pick triggers then depending on conditions or if then statements, it's sort of understandable once you get used to it, but it was the hardest part of the sc2 editor to get used to from the sc1 editor...
I think more people would be willing and capable of using it more if they tried now, compared to when sc2 first came out, and after they learn it once, it's relatively easy to make just about any map, quit for a while and then come back to, just like how even up until sc2 came out, sc1 still had tons of great custom maps coming out for it, I don't think sc2 map editing will be dying out anytime soon, it will just keep growing slow and steady.
If I could I would like to re-make and see all my favorite sc1 maps again in sc2, impossible nirvana, crepuscular, civ world, rise of egypt/rome, a heroes path, star trek armada, golden knight, mage rpg, sorcery II, and so many others I can't even remember off the top of my head, hero wars and custom hero wars which are more exact duplicates of the sc1 versions might be interesting too, though hero attack did a very satisfying job of that one. Sometimes it feels like it might be fun to make maps that uses inconvenient methods of triggering like moving units to beacons or having stationary "place holder" units just for the nostalgia factor.
Most of what has been coming out of your trap has been nonsense.
As far as Curse goes... Well hang on here this is my main.
I don't think there is anything worth bringing to the table at this point. This discussion has been interesting to say the least. The bottom line is Blizzard has no interest in the arcade. It wasn't in their business plan (if they had one), they did not want it so they are going to focus their efforts elsewhere. That's fine, I was just hoping they would tell me before I bought the game.
Really, Fockewolf??? Have you taken part in the conspiracy b-n Blizzard and Mapster or have been like me in Hive since 2004, or maybe to favor your idea of the game too bad - that's why Hive didn't switch to it? Or anything differing from you is 'nonsense' you know-it-all? Anyone serious enough to take part in something will get over the difficulties and get used to it, live with it, forget about them.
I am not talking about Arcade but about the Editor, it is as it is, needs more to work on, but it;s fine.
I have complained like anyone about BNet features, eventually since my thing was playing I got over them and lived with it, still demanded the new features but it didn't matter any more. The editor - for the things you can do with it is going fine, simpler for what you can do with it? Not happening.
When you have a desire to do something, you will build cities, when you don't have it, you will always think of excuses.
You do not speak for all, you are not all, you are not the community, you are just you. And stop pretending everything you say is the Holy Truth.
And there I thought you were more than just a hard core QQer, nope, nothing more than that. I will just ignore your whining as well but let's make it clear - keep it here, no one is supposed to see your crying on every thread.
Really, Fockewolf??? Have you taken part in the conspiracy b-n Blizzard and Mapster or have been like me in Hive since 2004, or maybe to favor your idea of the game too bad - that's why Hive didn't switch to it? Or anything differing from you is 'nonsense' you know-it-all? Anyone serious enough to take part in something will get over the difficulties and get used to it, live with it, forget about them.
I am not talking about Arcade but about the Editor, it is as it is, needs more to work on, but it;s fine.
I have complained like anyone about BNet features, eventually since my thing was playing I got over them and lived with it, still demanded the new features but it didn't matter any more. The editor - for the things you can do with it is going fine, simpler for what you can do with it? Not happening.
When you have a desire to do something, you will build cities, when you don't have it, you will always think of excuses.
You do not speak for all, you are not all, you are not the community, you are just you. And stop pretending everything you say is the Holy Truth.
And there I thought you were more than just a hard core QQer, nope, nothing more than that. I will just ignore your whining as well but let's make it clear - keep it here, no one is supposed to see your crying on every thread.
All the WC3 sites, including THW, tried to make the switch. Thehelper.net had their very active SC2 forum, WC3C launched SC2C and THW launched pretty much a copy of their resource system but themed for SC2. But it's hard keeping an active community when Blizzard was able to alienate the whole community within a couple of months from the release.
Sure you can get over the Battle.net 2.0 interface and live with it, but when you get over it almost everyone else has already stopped playing the arcade or uninstalled SC2 because they can't play anything else than the 10 most popular games, or stopped trying to create maps because they can't get them even beta tested online. Sure this was back in 2010 but if you can't keep the initial spike of players at release interested, then they never will be.
The sales for HotS should confirm this, the only figure released is 1.1 million copies compared to the 5 million WoL copies from August to December. I can say for myself that I choose to not buy HotS because of the ruined modding scene in WoL.
FockeWulf does not speak for the whole community, but I think we all can agree that much of what he says is correct and today we are sitting with an almost dead community, even though in reality this should be the golden age of it. Now all the tools, tutorials and resources should be mature enough to work and guide new modders. Instead we have nothing and are left to complain to Blizzard about petty issues we could have worked around ourselves.
I can understand that. If I were buying a game just to use the editor, I would probably not buy the game at all. When I was with war3 and now I'm with SC2, I use both the editor, played competitively ladder, watch eSports and very rarely customs. I'm not from the usual mapmakers, that's true, what I do, I do prviately, I don't publish projects but I do casually modelling, I use the editor often lately, go bnet - full use of the game babe! - that's a reason to buy the game for me. Either way using SC2 just for the editor seems a waste of money to me.
Who says the melee scene is still fine? Blizzard gave them more help than they ever gave us arcade guys.
Watching WCS Season 2 finals, 80k viewers, actually these are the viewers only online and Live, people could still watch after. Fck twitch tv doesnt work but im on a public pc atm. So who fcking cares as long as there is the pro scene and very cool matches to watch??
Watching WCS Season 2 finals, 80k viewers, actually these are the viewers only online and Live, people could still watch after. Fck twitch tv doesnt work but im on a public pc atm. So who fcking cares as long as there is the pro scene and very cool matches to watch??
I did not buy SC2 to watch other people play it, I bought it so I could play it myself and experience the modding scene I thought would exist. Sure I have followed the pro scene but it got so boring and repetetive that I just gave up on it years ago.
I do not like to compare the pro scene of different games but, but 80k is nothing nowadays. The International broke 1 million concurrent viewers on streams and DotaTV, this does not include TV broadcasts and so on.
I knew someone would misunderstand my post, I do not mean 'Who cares about modding when you have pro scene'. I meant 'who cares what statistics about MELEE are showing when you have these awesome matches'. It would be in inappropriate to say I don't care on a site that's for modding and in which I am here also for modding/mapmaking
Watching WCS Season 2 finals, 80k viewers, actually these are the viewers only online and Live, people could still watch after. Fck twitch tv doesnt work but im on a public pc atm. So who fcking cares as long as there is the pro scene and very cool matches to watch??
I had to read that twice to be sure it read what I thought.
This adds up with many other events to show a serous decline.
Blizzard only cares about viewers for Korean players. That is to say: They are not targeting the bulk of their player base. For any game geared towards E-Sports having anything under 200k for the largest event for a game that sold nearly 5 million copies (WoL) is just pathetic.
At this point I'm pretty sure that Blizzard could lay off half of their total staff to reduce costs and you would still say that StarCraft 2 E-Sports is doing fine.
And as to who cares of major community mapping teams go under as long as there is "pro scene and very cool matches"... You are just proving that you are a willingly blind fanboy. What matters far more than E-Sports is selling a large volume of their core video games.
Basically these two groups got more direct support from Blizzard than almost anyone else in the mapping scene save SCU.
More and more of my core points are proving to be reality. Its very funny how many of your criticize my evidence and credibility and yet my predictions - most of which are not unique to me and did not start with me, they started with people who are long gone - are proving remarkably accurate.
The only kind of indoctrination that has been released publically that is worse than yours is the kind you found in the USSR.
Perhaps read again before you judge? I never said 'I don't care about mapmaking communities, all that matters is eSports' - I was saying 'Melee is doing fine, as long as there is these events and people to watch them', I am talking about 1v1 Melee. I am not sure about Team games - I've heard it is there, where Blizzard didn't hear the communities and use what they do for TEAM GAMES.
And ofc TEAM GAMES as less serious and non-esports games (prettu much), should have more freedom of maps such as that communities use.
However, I tell you what - stick to where you are 'know-it-all' such as Arcade - where I don't argue cause I dont follow it much, and leave eSports which you are clearly not following to those who know more, OK? I never said eSports is perfect or flourishing but it is fine, it's nowhere as dramatic as you make it look.
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"so my main does not get singled out"
dear all, what world are we living in?
@houndofbaskerville: Go A world where a perma-banned guy creates a new accout every day only to post his biased point of views before the moderators ban this new account.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Time to commit suicide. BRB
That sounds like some conspiracy nonsense. Idk what Sen is (Sen, the Zerg player from Taiwan? lol) but every site chooses its own direction and Hive has made this choice pretty clear even though I even offered them to make a switch. I could blame it all on their owner after having been there for many years and now that we don't like each other and we had our wars there. Though, now that I think - a site devoted to StarCraft which mapster seems to have been before I even came here will naturally get more people than a site that has to make a transition from one game (war3) to SC2.
Overall I can say SC2Mapster is one of the most helpful communities, I've heard of sc2legacy, but here there are many people to help. It doesn't matter if few moderators don't help when many other members and mods are quite helpful here and on the irc chat.
Oh and yes, I personally also dislike trashtalk (call me an elitist but I have no such relation towards Arcade just in general), so if you learn to not get banned on TL.net you will be pro at using a forum ")
Didn't read the majority of this thread....
I made maps on sc1 up until sc2, the year sc2 came out I opened the editor all of once, spent a few hours messing with terrain then looked at triggers and data and went psh... not happening, would have taken the same amount of effort to code a game from scratch as with sc2 editor with no resources back then.
Years later, now just about every issue or possible trigger combination has a thread with Q&A for it, the majority of which are on sc2mapster, also some on hive, and this one other sc2 forum site, it's relatively easy to learn and use the editor finally similar to sc1.
I've been learning the sc2 editor as I make a map for 2-4 months, and I've already figured out just about everything from terrain/textures, custom actor/model, requirement/validators data, custom UI layouts, all sorts of ways to use dialogs, multi array variables, and all sorts of goodies through the various threads.
There's a lot more parts to it than the sc1 editor still, but it just means that much more can be done using it, the hardest part to learn going from sc1 editor was how to use the indirect specify X player/ X unit triggers, all methods of specifying just about anything in sc2 editor feel like you have to use round-about methods compared to sc1, using general events/pick triggers then depending on conditions or if then statements, it's sort of understandable once you get used to it, but it was the hardest part of the sc2 editor to get used to from the sc1 editor...
I think more people would be willing and capable of using it more if they tried now, compared to when sc2 first came out, and after they learn it once, it's relatively easy to make just about any map, quit for a while and then come back to, just like how even up until sc2 came out, sc1 still had tons of great custom maps coming out for it, I don't think sc2 map editing will be dying out anytime soon, it will just keep growing slow and steady.
If I could I would like to re-make and see all my favorite sc1 maps again in sc2, impossible nirvana, crepuscular, civ world, rise of egypt/rome, a heroes path, star trek armada, golden knight, mage rpg, sorcery II, and so many others I can't even remember off the top of my head, hero wars and custom hero wars which are more exact duplicates of the sc1 versions might be interesting too, though hero attack did a very satisfying job of that one. Sometimes it feels like it might be fun to make maps that uses inconvenient methods of triggering like moving units to beacons or having stationary "place holder" units just for the nostalgia factor.
@Eimtr: Go
Most of what has been coming out of your trap has been nonsense.
As far as Curse goes... Well hang on here this is my main.
I don't think there is anything worth bringing to the table at this point. This discussion has been interesting to say the least. The bottom line is Blizzard has no interest in the arcade. It wasn't in their business plan (if they had one), they did not want it so they are going to focus their efforts elsewhere. That's fine, I was just hoping they would tell me before I bought the game.
@FockeWulf: Go
Really, Fockewolf??? Have you taken part in the conspiracy b-n Blizzard and Mapster or have been like me in Hive since 2004, or maybe to favor your idea of the game too bad - that's why Hive didn't switch to it? Or anything differing from you is 'nonsense' you know-it-all? Anyone serious enough to take part in something will get over the difficulties and get used to it, live with it, forget about them.
I am not talking about Arcade but about the Editor, it is as it is, needs more to work on, but it;s fine.
I have complained like anyone about BNet features, eventually since my thing was playing I got over them and lived with it, still demanded the new features but it didn't matter any more. The editor - for the things you can do with it is going fine, simpler for what you can do with it? Not happening.
When you have a desire to do something, you will build cities, when you don't have it, you will always think of excuses.
You do not speak for all, you are not all, you are not the community, you are just you. And stop pretending everything you say is the Holy Truth.
And there I thought you were more than just a hard core QQer, nope, nothing more than that. I will just ignore your whining as well but let's make it clear - keep it here, no one is supposed to see your crying on every thread.
All the WC3 sites, including THW, tried to make the switch. Thehelper.net had their very active SC2 forum, WC3C launched SC2C and THW launched pretty much a copy of their resource system but themed for SC2. But it's hard keeping an active community when Blizzard was able to alienate the whole community within a couple of months from the release.
Sure you can get over the Battle.net 2.0 interface and live with it, but when you get over it almost everyone else has already stopped playing the arcade or uninstalled SC2 because they can't play anything else than the 10 most popular games, or stopped trying to create maps because they can't get them even beta tested online. Sure this was back in 2010 but if you can't keep the initial spike of players at release interested, then they never will be.
The sales for HotS should confirm this, the only figure released is 1.1 million copies compared to the 5 million WoL copies from August to December. I can say for myself that I choose to not buy HotS because of the ruined modding scene in WoL.
FockeWulf does not speak for the whole community, but I think we all can agree that much of what he says is correct and today we are sitting with an almost dead community, even though in reality this should be the golden age of it. Now all the tools, tutorials and resources should be mature enough to work and guide new modders. Instead we have nothing and are left to complain to Blizzard about petty issues we could have worked around ourselves.
2nd.
@Gwypaas: Go
I can understand that. If I were buying a game just to use the editor, I would probably not buy the game at all. When I was with war3 and now I'm with SC2, I use both the editor, played competitively ladder, watch eSports and very rarely customs. I'm not from the usual mapmakers, that's true, what I do, I do prviately, I don't publish projects but I do casually modelling, I use the editor often lately, go bnet - full use of the game babe! - that's a reason to buy the game for me. Either way using SC2 just for the editor seems a waste of money to me.
This just in:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9754145796
Who says the melee scene is still fine? Blizzard gave them more help than they ever gave us arcade guys.
There's a melee map making scene? Wait.. people play melee?
^ Yes?
Watching WCS Season 2 finals, 80k viewers, actually these are the viewers only online and Live, people could still watch after. Fck twitch tv doesnt work but im on a public pc atm. So who fcking cares as long as there is the pro scene and very cool matches to watch??
I did not buy SC2 to watch other people play it, I bought it so I could play it myself and experience the modding scene I thought would exist. Sure I have followed the pro scene but it got so boring and repetetive that I just gave up on it years ago.
I do not like to compare the pro scene of different games but, but 80k is nothing nowadays. The International broke 1 million concurrent viewers on streams and DotaTV, this does not include TV broadcasts and so on.
@Gwypaas: Go
I knew someone would misunderstand my post, I do not mean 'Who cares about modding when you have pro scene'. I meant 'who cares what statistics about MELEE are showing when you have these awesome matches'. It would be in inappropriate to say I don't care on a site that's for modding and in which I am here also for modding/mapmaking
I had to read that twice to be sure it read what I thought.
This adds up with many other events to show a serous decline.
Blizzard only cares about viewers for Korean players. That is to say: They are not targeting the bulk of their player base. For any game geared towards E-Sports having anything under 200k for the largest event for a game that sold nearly 5 million copies (WoL) is just pathetic.
At this point I'm pretty sure that Blizzard could lay off half of their total staff to reduce costs and you would still say that StarCraft 2 E-Sports is doing fine.
And as to who cares of major community mapping teams go under as long as there is "pro scene and very cool matches"... You are just proving that you are a willingly blind fanboy. What matters far more than E-Sports is selling a large volume of their core video games.
Basically these two groups got more direct support from Blizzard than almost anyone else in the mapping scene save SCU.
More and more of my core points are proving to be reality. Its very funny how many of your criticize my evidence and credibility and yet my predictions - most of which are not unique to me and did not start with me, they started with people who are long gone - are proving remarkably accurate.
The only kind of indoctrination that has been released publically that is worse than yours is the kind you found in the USSR.
@FockeWulf: Go
Perhaps read again before you judge? I never said 'I don't care about mapmaking communities, all that matters is eSports' - I was saying 'Melee is doing fine, as long as there is these events and people to watch them', I am talking about 1v1 Melee. I am not sure about Team games - I've heard it is there, where Blizzard didn't hear the communities and use what they do for TEAM GAMES.
And ofc TEAM GAMES as less serious and non-esports games (prettu much), should have more freedom of maps such as that communities use.
However, I tell you what - stick to where you are 'know-it-all' such as Arcade - where I don't argue cause I dont follow it much, and leave eSports which you are clearly not following to those who know more, OK? I never said eSports is perfect or flourishing but it is fine, it's nowhere as dramatic as you make it look.