So, I am starting to get back into Starcraft 2 Map making to prototype some multiplayers game Ideas before I invest in attempting to make them standalone.... So, wonder what were peoples favorite wc3 or sc2 maps.... I am right now leaning to these types of maps Unit Arena's(Marine Arena, Zealot Frenzy, Zergling Blood, Footmen Frenzy, ect), Survivor Maps (Ice Troll Tribes, Dark Deeds, Gnome Tribes), and Top Down Shooters (Notd II, Notd Aftermath)... I should probably add I am a bigger fan of the original wc3 maps than the current sc2 or sc2(Remakes) maps probably cause I spent many years modding and playing there...
Some background on me is I have worked in the game industry a year or so and shipped a few titles/ tech demos... along with worked with Unity, Udk, Crytek and many other third party engines... along with doing both Art and Programming... So nothing skill wise you could name is out of my research... If it required heavy code or art... My main question is just what people are into map wise...
Also a side question... Why are so many maps under OTHER for arcade?... wtf is with that?..
Another side note... Would anyone be interested in me streaming the Process every night of me making a map or creating Art Assests?
My favorite type of map is something on the line of Survival and something different. But not Zombies unless it is actually unique. There are so many zombie maps out there it is just stupid.
Also maps normally have 'other' on them because if you don't change the map type to something different, by default it'll set it to other.
Ya, there alot of zombies map out there, but I indeed have to agreed haven't played one that kept my attention as much as the orginal Notd did... I'd probably say because it was on such a higher difficultly level and learning curve... Most of the survival maps now are hard remakes of the orginal wc3 ones and most of them lost there appeal cause they appear to be direct clones... If i was to do a survivor map id probably do a top down Notd2 style map with a modern environment and custom art out the ass and dynamic lighting and twists based on that trying to recreate the classic resident evil/silent hill feels as a top down... But on the same not I would love to do a retake on cat mouse/dark deed type survivor too.. both have there own appeal and interest with almost completely different roots and play style...
I recommend just making something you think will be fun and others will find fun. A lot of the popular maps are garbage. Try to be creative but remember that if you do something too different from the norm people will not likely try it out.
I already started an example for each type I listed.... and won't limit myself to any specif map type... The purpose was to see what people like and are interested in.... It allows me to see what people like and why to better understand... There might be a lot of popular maps that assets wise/terrain and trigger wise be completely simple and garbage but still fun because they are so simple... If a game only has 2 buttons but is enjoyable to play does that make it bad?
I'm a RTS lover and I'm very sad by the only few available game in that category. I remember, at the release of Warcraft 3, that many revolutionary things were added, like the day/night cycle and heroes level/experience. I think that Starcraft 2 have reached the cap of a normal RTS environment. I mean, by a normal environment, that it is always the same technics to win a game, so once you have played like 200 games with a race, you can say that you have 'fait le tour' of the subject.
If I can make a suggestion for you, a new kind of RTS should be a very nice challenge. You could add weather condition (a thick fog that reduce sight radius or heavy wind that modify weapon range), an effective day/night (more than the night elves in Warcraft 3...), a complete terrain generator or a new kind of tactic that use footprints of buildings, just to name that examples.
In short, I'm tired to always do roaches and zerglings at the same game time in the same type of map, so I dream of a RTS game that every time the game start, you must think of your strategy to win the war.
If you want to see some examples, I made 4 libraries in the forum about some improvement that could be made in a game of that kind.
So warcraft 4 or warcraft 3..... If i recall I only got up to level 40 for wc3... Solo so nothing major... it was still heavy micro while sc2 is heavy macro... and the day and night weren't super huge it was really more about leveling up ur hero/heroes and microing the crap out of them and ur units... cause expanding was alot more difficult... As I see the urge to have that it would be counter intitutive to sc2 Gameplay wouldn't it... You would almost have to rebalance every race around the lack of ablity to expand... let alone add neutral units and balanced heroes... when I think about all my wc3 solo days my worst/best days were getting 3 heroes level 9,7,5 on undead and just never being killable ;)... They also had more hard counters to air and a lot less
Yea exactly. I think that the 2 great errors that Blizzard made in Warcraft 3 was that you only have 1 kind of levelable units (if every unit could level, I could stop crying when my hero dies in the middle of a game) and they do not have enough exploited the potential of the day/night cycle (they could make that some major abilities are enable only during night, or some unit have more HP or have a season cycle, like that night is longer during winter and vice-versa, etc.). If they only put that in the Starcraft 2 universe, they could radically change the world of the RTS.
An example of a good RTS map was made by bibendus, who take the classic game dungeon keeper and marvelously adapted it to Starcraft 2. If you haven't played his game, I strongly recommand you to try it.
I played the overlord kickstarter ;) and a few others... The core issue with ur suggestion is heroes are suppose to be a unique and create that unequal balance and encourage keeping them alive... sc2 would have to reduce it units to 90 pop to even simulate wc3 and not have it be crazy and remove bigger units like mothership and battlecruiser
You're right, but as you said, Warcraft 3 needs a lot of micro and Starcraft 2 needs macro, so a good mix of that 2 games should make a nice RTS. I take my hero example : if every unit would be levelable, it would force a player to keep them alive, but if he loses some of them in a fight, he will have more chances to win than in WC3 (when you hero dies, you can almost say goodbye to the victory...). In my map, I added a new idea about that : when you put an unit into a production building (like a marine that enters in a barracks), if this unit have some experience, the building will take a part of this experience, so every new units that will be created from this building will have a experience too! Another great idea about that would be that your units may have items for their weapons, so if you upgrade a rifle, for example, all the units with the previous version of this gun should go back to the building to upgrade them (like the chinese RTS Wardiary). I always find strange that every unit instantly upgrade their weapons, especially when they were at the opposite place in the map of the research building...
I'm a zerg player, which means that I like to make many many units and push them in the ennemy base, so if you push the pop limit too low, some players will be disinterested of your game. Another point that Blizzard masters is about a normal game time limit, which is, in Starcraft 2, approximatively between 15 and 25 minutes. I remember Age of Empire 2, in which a game could last like 3 hours..... this is why I didn't played a long time in that game :P
@tatatatate: Go
interesting points... but the issue is the pop limit would of course force either micro or macro... it why zerg is known for being macro while protoss and terran are known for more micro.... granted it been a while but at it core wc3 was pure micro.... u also had 3 heros so just lossing one wasn't gg and alot of heroes had insane survivalbity... from escapes to self heals... it was some what difficult to loss a hero unless u did something foolish and walked around with 1/4 hp and got it sniped... I mean it true though some races could not function with a low pop zerg would be insanely handy capped... but the core reason i beat blizzard didn't do heroes was because it creates imbalances in gameplay and changes sc2... the ideas are really interesting and could create a interesting rts... but i would almost suggest u seperate it from the sc2 universe ....
Also the level of stradgey and management ur suggesting would almost push it into a 1 hour to 2 hour games.... o i just upgraded time to re upgrade all my old units... the other issue is it puts such a huge burden and disadvantage if u miss micro ... o i lost 10 of x units ... and he didn't great i losss.... it almost forces snowballing... if u lost a hero outside of a base in wc3 there was a chance u could revive it in time... and if u loss a hero in battle ... if you could wipe out his army than u could still survive... I mean I personally would remake wc3 than try to use sc2 .... there just far to many things you would have to rebalance... If you recall all hero units did over 70 damage for aoe abilties... Now terran losses instantly ?.... lool or do u nerf aoe abilities to do low damage... how awesome is that I did.... 20 aoe damage ... WTF 20 AOE DAMAGE -_- ....
Before I personally would even attempt rming a rts within a rts har har funny .... I would make a unit survivor with interesting unit's... I am currently working on a arena where all the units upgrade skills/abilties... what if you units on hit had a chance to cast a counter spell like frost nova.... or death a chance to explode and do aoe damage... To me that stuff is more interesting... I think most people enjoy sending hoards of enemies into battle... than figuring out all the counters and base management...
Your idea does bring interest cause of the fact that once you do that expanding that into a rts would create interest and appeal... I would love to play some old wc3..
I work on a RTS map since 2 year named Dune, if you have already saw this movie one time, you will surely remember the environment of the only planet who make spice : arrakis. In my map, I have 3 resources : metallide (similar to mineral), spice (that is collected as same as tiberium in command and conquer) and water (a time of day produced resource). I also made a terrain generator, a season cycle and other stuff like that, so I hope that it will make an interesting RTS :P
So, I am starting to get back into Starcraft 2 Map making to prototype some multiplayers game Ideas before I invest in attempting to make them standalone.... So, wonder what were peoples favorite wc3 or sc2 maps.... I am right now leaning to these types of maps Unit Arena's(Marine Arena, Zealot Frenzy, Zergling Blood, Footmen Frenzy, ect), Survivor Maps (Ice Troll Tribes, Dark Deeds, Gnome Tribes), and Top Down Shooters (Notd II, Notd Aftermath)... I should probably add I am a bigger fan of the original wc3 maps than the current sc2 or sc2(Remakes) maps probably cause I spent many years modding and playing there...
Some background on me is I have worked in the game industry a year or so and shipped a few titles/ tech demos... along with worked with Unity, Udk, Crytek and many other third party engines... along with doing both Art and Programming... So nothing skill wise you could name is out of my research... If it required heavy code or art... My main question is just what people are into map wise...
Also a side question... Why are so many maps under OTHER for arcade?... wtf is with that?..
Another side note... Would anyone be interested in me streaming the Process every night of me making a map or creating Art Assests?
@Toukichiro: Go
My favorite type of map is something on the line of Survival and something different. But not Zombies unless it is actually unique. There are so many zombie maps out there it is just stupid.
Also maps normally have 'other' on them because if you don't change the map type to something different, by default it'll set it to other.
@Crewdroy: Go
Ya, there alot of zombies map out there, but I indeed have to agreed haven't played one that kept my attention as much as the orginal Notd did... I'd probably say because it was on such a higher difficultly level and learning curve... Most of the survival maps now are hard remakes of the orginal wc3 ones and most of them lost there appeal cause they appear to be direct clones... If i was to do a survivor map id probably do a top down Notd2 style map with a modern environment and custom art out the ass and dynamic lighting and twists based on that trying to recreate the classic resident evil/silent hill feels as a top down... But on the same not I would love to do a retake on cat mouse/dark deed type survivor too.. both have there own appeal and interest with almost completely different roots and play style...
@Toukichiro: Go
I recommend just making something you think will be fun and others will find fun. A lot of the popular maps are garbage. Try to be creative but remember that if you do something too different from the norm people will not likely try it out.
I already started an example for each type I listed.... and won't limit myself to any specif map type... The purpose was to see what people like and are interested in.... It allows me to see what people like and why to better understand... There might be a lot of popular maps that assets wise/terrain and trigger wise be completely simple and garbage but still fun because they are so simple... If a game only has 2 buttons but is enjoyable to play does that make it bad?
I'm a RTS lover and I'm very sad by the only few available game in that category. I remember, at the release of Warcraft 3, that many revolutionary things were added, like the day/night cycle and heroes level/experience. I think that Starcraft 2 have reached the cap of a normal RTS environment. I mean, by a normal environment, that it is always the same technics to win a game, so once you have played like 200 games with a race, you can say that you have 'fait le tour' of the subject.
If I can make a suggestion for you, a new kind of RTS should be a very nice challenge. You could add weather condition (a thick fog that reduce sight radius or heavy wind that modify weapon range), an effective day/night (more than the night elves in Warcraft 3...), a complete terrain generator or a new kind of tactic that use footprints of buildings, just to name that examples.
In short, I'm tired to always do roaches and zerglings at the same game time in the same type of map, so I dream of a RTS game that every time the game start, you must think of your strategy to win the war.
If you want to see some examples, I made 4 libraries in the forum about some improvement that could be made in a game of that kind.
@tatatatate: Go
So warcraft 4 or warcraft 3..... If i recall I only got up to level 40 for wc3... Solo so nothing major... it was still heavy micro while sc2 is heavy macro... and the day and night weren't super huge it was really more about leveling up ur hero/heroes and microing the crap out of them and ur units... cause expanding was alot more difficult... As I see the urge to have that it would be counter intitutive to sc2 Gameplay wouldn't it... You would almost have to rebalance every race around the lack of ablity to expand... let alone add neutral units and balanced heroes... when I think about all my wc3 solo days my worst/best days were getting 3 heroes level 9,7,5 on undead and just never being killable ;)... They also had more hard counters to air and a lot less
Yea exactly. I think that the 2 great errors that Blizzard made in Warcraft 3 was that you only have 1 kind of levelable units (if every unit could level, I could stop crying when my hero dies in the middle of a game) and they do not have enough exploited the potential of the day/night cycle (they could make that some major abilities are enable only during night, or some unit have more HP or have a season cycle, like that night is longer during winter and vice-versa, etc.). If they only put that in the Starcraft 2 universe, they could radically change the world of the RTS.
An example of a good RTS map was made by bibendus, who take the classic game dungeon keeper and marvelously adapted it to Starcraft 2. If you haven't played his game, I strongly recommand you to try it.
@tatatatate: Go
I played the overlord kickstarter ;) and a few others... The core issue with ur suggestion is heroes are suppose to be a unique and create that unequal balance and encourage keeping them alive... sc2 would have to reduce it units to 90 pop to even simulate wc3 and not have it be crazy and remove bigger units like mothership and battlecruiser
You're right, but as you said, Warcraft 3 needs a lot of micro and Starcraft 2 needs macro, so a good mix of that 2 games should make a nice RTS. I take my hero example : if every unit would be levelable, it would force a player to keep them alive, but if he loses some of them in a fight, he will have more chances to win than in WC3 (when you hero dies, you can almost say goodbye to the victory...). In my map, I added a new idea about that : when you put an unit into a production building (like a marine that enters in a barracks), if this unit have some experience, the building will take a part of this experience, so every new units that will be created from this building will have a experience too! Another great idea about that would be that your units may have items for their weapons, so if you upgrade a rifle, for example, all the units with the previous version of this gun should go back to the building to upgrade them (like the chinese RTS Wardiary). I always find strange that every unit instantly upgrade their weapons, especially when they were at the opposite place in the map of the research building...
I'm a zerg player, which means that I like to make many many units and push them in the ennemy base, so if you push the pop limit too low, some players will be disinterested of your game. Another point that Blizzard masters is about a normal game time limit, which is, in Starcraft 2, approximatively between 15 and 25 minutes. I remember Age of Empire 2, in which a game could last like 3 hours..... this is why I didn't played a long time in that game :P
@tatatatate: Go interesting points... but the issue is the pop limit would of course force either micro or macro... it why zerg is known for being macro while protoss and terran are known for more micro.... granted it been a while but at it core wc3 was pure micro.... u also had 3 heros so just lossing one wasn't gg and alot of heroes had insane survivalbity... from escapes to self heals... it was some what difficult to loss a hero unless u did something foolish and walked around with 1/4 hp and got it sniped... I mean it true though some races could not function with a low pop zerg would be insanely handy capped... but the core reason i beat blizzard didn't do heroes was because it creates imbalances in gameplay and changes sc2... the ideas are really interesting and could create a interesting rts... but i would almost suggest u seperate it from the sc2 universe ....
Also the level of stradgey and management ur suggesting would almost push it into a 1 hour to 2 hour games.... o i just upgraded time to re upgrade all my old units... the other issue is it puts such a huge burden and disadvantage if u miss micro ... o i lost 10 of x units ... and he didn't great i losss.... it almost forces snowballing... if u lost a hero outside of a base in wc3 there was a chance u could revive it in time... and if u loss a hero in battle ... if you could wipe out his army than u could still survive... I mean I personally would remake wc3 than try to use sc2 .... there just far to many things you would have to rebalance... If you recall all hero units did over 70 damage for aoe abilties... Now terran losses instantly ?.... lool or do u nerf aoe abilities to do low damage... how awesome is that I did.... 20 aoe damage ... WTF 20 AOE DAMAGE -_- ....
Before I personally would even attempt rming a rts within a rts har har funny .... I would make a unit survivor with interesting unit's... I am currently working on a arena where all the units upgrade skills/abilties... what if you units on hit had a chance to cast a counter spell like frost nova.... or death a chance to explode and do aoe damage... To me that stuff is more interesting... I think most people enjoy sending hoards of enemies into battle... than figuring out all the counters and base management...
Your idea does bring interest cause of the fact that once you do that expanding that into a rts would create interest and appeal... I would love to play some old wc3..
As you can see, I was not very good in WC3 ahah!
I work on a RTS map since 2 year named Dune, if you have already saw this movie one time, you will surely remember the environment of the only planet who make spice : arrakis. In my map, I have 3 resources : metallide (similar to mineral), spice (that is collected as same as tiberium in command and conquer) and water (a time of day produced resource). I also made a terrain generator, a season cycle and other stuff like that, so I hope that it will make an interesting RTS :P
Good luck in your projects man!
@tatatatate: Go
Thanks... and ya the systems your describing is Dungeon Keeper and Wc3 Merged... And dungeon Keeper had unit revival... and small amount of units