SC2Mapster

Thought this might interest some people:

http://www.dota2.com/reborn/part2

SUGGESTED GAMES We know how vital it is for new games to be able to gain exposure, rather than always being hidden behind a dominant lineup of popular titles. The Suggested Games list includes a wide variety of games that are trending upwards and receiving positive votes from players. The selection will change every 30 minutes, presenting everyone in the community with the same 15 games at any given time, making it easy for all matches to fill quickly.

Everything I ever wanted, everything I ever asked for, all is to be found bellow.

I really don't like dota/moba as a game, but I suppose it's time to finally familiarize myself with it.

what a shame, it's really about time to leave sc2

Quote:

We'd like to build an ecosystem where you can experience something new every time you launch Dota 2

I googled dota2 modding and found this: https://moddota.com/forums/discussion/285/a-look-at-the-workshop-tools-alpha-status

Reading about the issues with Custom Games Workshop Tools (Alpha) the difference between an alpha of tools and an editor that has been out for 5+ years is so apparent that it isn't even funy.

Still, I somehow get the feeling that it might be worth giving it a shot so that one could become proficient in those tools when updates and expanded functionality comes.

Knowing Valve, they'll want to have it all, so who knows how far those tools will go.

Edit: Just reading these tutorials can give some insight into what to expect when dealing with dota2modding.

Was just reading about it, very excited! Sounds like games will be much easier to find and get played there, and also easier to discuss, since Steam Workshop submissions have their own forums (and comment sections, of course). You get some neat graphs & stats too, if I remember correctly.

I'll be definitely checking this and the Doom 4 editor out, they look easy to learn and very powerful, alongside their great search/discussion systems :D

Indeed it is interesting.

1) The open list is obviously welcomed by the community, I'm assuming Valve will put something in place to combat host bots. As I'm sure anyone who played Warcraft 3 customs is aware, the custom game list was wonderful at the start, then as time went on, DotA games ended up dominating the list, but more ergiously, host bots totally controlled the list to the point human hosts were some mythical unicorn. If Valve doesn't put in any tools, then I give it 6 months before a couple websites control the entire list with the typical SEO manipulation we've all come to know and love /s.

2) The tools are definitely more aimed at artists and standard coding, with no real UI for scripting and data. There isn't anything like the trigger editor. If you are a programmer, this is a non issue, just fire up your favorite text editor (Sublime seems to be the recommended one) and I imagine someone has devised a plugin to do function suggestions from the Valve API. Data Editing is identical to here, just no UI. You will need to memorize the key value pairs, and it will be like raw data editing, so if you have never done the XML data editing in SC2, you should learn now, that's all you get in DotA 2.

3) Reading the list ducky linked, it is indeed interesting to see the limits of an FPS engine and what is what crafted for and how much of it was hardcoded to dota. OBviously some things in source will be vastly easier than in SC2, but that open issues list is something that hopefully valve addresses, since almost every one of those is a non issue in SC2 and we take those for granted (1000 units in SC2? No problem. Dynamic hotkeys? Already have them and Storm is letting you change those on the fly as well. The tooltips things really surprises me...)

Here is the biggest open question: Can 2 custom game scenes exist? The reaction from what I've seen is pretty extreme, that because the tools are not simple for either, it becomes a full time commitment to either and one can not participate in both at once. And this doesn't even go into the (IMO) irrational attachment or detachment to one company or the other (since companies are not people, don't know why people are loyal or hate them).

@ArcaneDurandel: Go

Quote from ArcaneDurandel: Go

Here is the biggest open question: Can 2 custom game scenes exist?

Sort answer: no.

Long answer: no. because you don't have that much people who can be map makers.

Quote:

Here is the biggest open question: Can 2 custom game scenes exist?

Of course they can, and they are, even now. Sc2's custom scene is extremely small, vastly overshadowed by communities like Doom, Counter-strike, Arma, so on so forth. Custom content may not be what it once was in gaming, but it's still huge. The real question you should be asking is, "Why would anyone stick with sc2?" Other than community, I don't see a reason, between engines like UE4 for developers looking for big projects, and vast communities for other games more open to custom content than Blizzard has ever been. Sc2 is capable of decent projects given the time, but many other engines are far more open and far more reliable and easy to get into than sc2 can hope to be. At the end of the day, though, it all depends on what you as a developer want out of your project. If you're already situated with the game, then I see no reason to switch. But sc2 will not likely ever see its scene grow substantially after LotV's release.

The reaction from what I've seen is pretty extreme, that because the tools are not simple for either, it becomes a full time commitment to either and one can not participate in both at once. And this doesn't even go into the (IMO) irrational attachment or detachment to one company or the other (since companies are not people, don't know why people are loyal or hate them).

I wouldn't call it irrational. People get set in their ways. Additionally, many people are extremely hostile to Blizzard because of how Blizzard treated our communities in the past (their only communication was to issue C&D's to projects they saw as competition, they made fun of us for requesting them to fix wc3's problems during TFT beta, etc), and how they chose to reward our dedication with sc2's restrictions and censorship, not to speak of the charade that is sc2's editor when many custom content developers, including myself, went to extraordinary efforts to familiarize them with our polished user tools and why they were successful. It may not seem like a lot coming from wc3, but sc2 is a slap in the face to all custom content creators from sc1-d2 and anyone coming in from developer supported titles. Also, their extremely limited communication, things like "do you really want chat channels?", 1.5 silently deleting projects, all hint to a company that really just doesn't give a shit. I really wanted to like sc2. I really wanted to do something with it. I did my best to shed my opinions with past dealings and see sc2 with an open mind for five long years. But it fought me any step of the way, and in no objective, politically correct manner, can I see sc2 in any shred of positive light.

While I understand and agree with your point on the conceptual level - a company isn't a person so you can't really hate or be loyal to a name - what that company represents is an extremely negative connotation depending on where you come from and what you're looking for in a product. I look for objective improvements over old products, communication, and a standard of quality.

As a developer I see no reason to associate myself with anything Valve does, either. Nothing screams at me and says "pick me over the other choices". For someone already invested into dota 2 or the engine it is probably a very easy choice to make to move to it. For someone working on sc2, you should first ask yourself what exactly it is you want out of your project. If sc2 can't handle your project (like it can't handle any of mine), then maybe it's time to check out other games. If you're doing fine, there is probably little reason to switch, since it introduces a lot of barriers more likely than not to kill your project. Even an editor with perfect UI and responsiveness is nonetheless a titanic task to master. Dota 2's editor is just another fish in a very crowded pond. Nothing about it seems unique or appealing when compared to the other choices.

I've been at this for way too many years to have the patience for the kind of crap companies try to pull with modding and maps. This isn't 2001 anymore. There are endless examples to go by on how to foster a productive and positive community, and how to develop good and reliable tools in a reasonably short time, and most importantly, how to continue to support those tools and the community as time goes on. All of the countless years myself and others devoted to trying to communicate and establish ties to the company that made the games we developed content for a decade and more were an absolute, utter waste. To seal the pact, the friends I knew who moved into the company and then promptly vanished from everywhere else. That is how Blizzard does business. I just don't agree with it is all.

/e

Ugh, this forum's bbcode is really the worst I have ever had to deal with. Why doesn't a double quote work?

Quote from Renee2islga: Go

@ArcaneDurandel: Go

@ArcaneDurandel: Go

Sort answer: no.

Long answer: no. because you don't have that much people who can be map makers.

If that is the case, that's not very encouraging, because that means we can basically sign over all custom games to Valve and call it a day. Regardless of how good Valve may be, that's just asking for stagnation. And Valve by design will always be manpower limited (hence why they have ceased making games in any capacity for almost a decade now).

Edit: Also, given what we have seen, I think we can safely conclude RTS are dead. It seems the very genre preclude anyone from ever making one again, of note.

Quote from ArcaneDurandel: Go

Edit: Also, given what we have seen, I think we can safely conclude RTS are dead. It seems the very genre preclude anyone from ever making one again, of note.

Agree 100%. I feel like it's been that way for a very long time.

The Heroes of the storm is comming into sc2 editor. No? Yes? yessss!

or Sc2 going to Heroes ?

im confuse

@3yks: Go

Are you Cynon?

sc2, wc3 = art by Samwise&team. Beautiful icons, overal graphic style, cool sfx. I don't know how to describe it in best way but when i see any asset in sc2 or wc3 i know that it was made with dedication and by people which love their work, not just by someone who do his daily routine. It realy adds some magical feel to the games done by Blizzard's team 1.

Also i don't see enough assets in dota 2 to make such a diverse worlds as you can in sc2, like desert, lava, snow, jungle, etc. Also it's more time consuming i guess, if you want to make something from scratch.

I think pudge/mirana/shadowraze wars are type of maps which will be most popular there.

However i agree that experience with valve tools may be more valuable for future game development career (lua scripting, more advanced tools, etc.). For hobbyists sc2 editor is the king right now imo.

@3yks: Go

AAh. I remember you a bit. It's good to see some old names still kicking around. Keep it up.

Dustin Browder said that also Heroes of the Storm will have an Editor, who caries about this shitty WC3 Rip Off? I am looking forward to try DotA 1on sc2, i tryed it on WC3, no time to learn that 872354973 kids start crying on chat (honestly also Aeon of Storm on 2010 had this problem, and alo Heroes have it, but not at this state)