I think that the best safe way to ban someone is to fill a variable in the triggers, with the ID of people to ban. And check the list at the beginning of each game, compare with each player.
To get their ID, you can build a trigger to add an admin command in game only for you, which would display to you the ID of the player to ban.
Then you paste the ID get in the trigger.
Of course, people banned can create a new free acount. But remember you can ban these new accounts probably faster than they create new accounts.
Considering the TOS, instead of banning (which is mainly to make people lose at the start), you may disadvantage them in some ways, so they can't troll.
But I know that some map have a ban system, so it must not really be an issue.
- I am not asking about the technical how-to. But whether it really helps or is just offset by them making new free accounts
- Disadvantaging them wont really work since it is a teamgame and the trolls focus on disadvantaging their own team, making the match unfun due to the resulting unbalance between the two teams
Maybe I should also exten with a third question:
What can vote kick do, what can it not do?
Again it's not about the technical level, I think I can handle that, but will it solve or reduce the the problem.
Banning fast is also not that trivial, since I wouldn't really have time to ban the same persons 3 times an evening for example.
- I am not asking about the technical how-to. But whether it really helps or is just offset by them making new free accounts
It will depend on the will of trolls to troll. Facing a ban system will lead them to compare their fun having to troll to the necessity of creating new accounts, which is boring.
Almost sure they would give up quite quickly, but it may depend on the speed of the ban.
- Disadvantaging them wont really work since it is a teamgame and the trolls focus on disadvantaging their own team, making the match unfun due to the resulting unbalance between the two teams
If you can ban them without breaking the game, I think you could only disadvantage them too, but it can require some work to take it in consideration in balance.
It can make a player instantly lose, and write something in the bank of the concerned player to make him instantly lose next games. But this player would only need to delete his bank, or to paste a saved bank to get rid of the ban. It is why I wrote about a hard coded list of banned players. But you could write a list of banned players in the bank of everybody too. So if at least one player got the concern player in his bank bann list, it can work.
If you still ask about the TOS, I don't know. Anyways, if you watch the game Desert Strike, there is an afk kick system, which doesn't make the afk player lose, but prevent him to do anything. Considering how much this game is played, it must be tolerated.
Yeah, do vote-kick or other ways for playes to be able to de-troll the game.
I think ban-lists are the best way to get most buthurt value. It makes it personal which at best makes people complain on b-net forum (like mafia) and at worst purposely utilizing bots to ruin it by making game unhostable.
Seems that Mafia goes the evil side. The funny fact is that their game is about to troll, not sure about what they want, maybe to teach people what is a good troll, and what is a bad troll xD
Their popularity may drop quickly.
create a new mod, inside the mod create a new trigger library. create a new function which returns a boolean and takes a string as parameter (or integer for player). inside this function you will check through all hardcoded player handles (either use a variable with array or use user data types) and compare to the parameter.
add this mod to your map, at map start you check through all players and call the function from the library, if true kick the player.
a mod has the big advantage that you dont need to update the map each time = way faster upload. you will be able to ban new accounts within 2 minutes
optional but very useful: also create a trigger in your library to write playername + playerhandle to a bank file on command (i.e. type -print = create new bank Players). this will allow other players to easily report other players to you, just request the bank file + name
Personally, I'd recommend you be very cautious about actually banning people.
With [Probes vs Zealot 2] we have a fair bit of 'trouble' with trolls over the years, and have tried several methods to manage.
Any severe action (like banning) has typically made the troll significantly worse for a reasonably long period of time (at least weeks).
The worst trolling action is the capability to prevent players being able to play by obtaining Host of a lobby, and host just kicking people from said lobby for hours and hours and hours. It happens. You dont want it to happen to your game, especially if it is popular.
There are more subtle options, and escalation paths with those options. For example:
1) text tag "troll"
2) negative buffs for 'trolls'.
3) inhibit ranking up in game (but not ability to play).
4) Changed Models for troll units (if this makes sense in context of game) [The WC3 Axe Wielder?]
other players can also be encouraged to self moderate, with Vote Kick systems. (BUT these Vote Kick systems tend to have their own downsides).
Whilst all the above are ideas, the key thing i recommend is to use all of them as a last resort but ALWAYS remember:
Trolls seek attention. So ignore them.
If you need to act, create capability that allows the other players in game to effectively ignore them
I have been trying to ignore trolling for almost a year now, but recently more and more people are bringing trolling to my attention.
By trolling I here stricktly mean joining a game with the intention of sabotaging the team they joined.
I guess what I will explore is a mix/combination of a vote-kick system and afk-detection + rebalancing... Players can vote for a player to be on probation and if the map detects trolling it will deploy countermeassures on its own.
I am wondering if it's smart or the opposite to leave the player on probation in the dark about vote/probation and countermeassure (as far as possible).
+ I like the idea of trolls trolling on without realizing they do no harm anymore
- But it might actually piss them of more once they realize or spark feelings about unjust treatment
I think that solution is good for several reasons:
Doesn't require a lot of attention from my side.
It is no direct action I take against trolls but it is executed by players and game mechanics instead.
Could someone comment more on the downsides of votekicks and whether they apply more or less for my idea?
"trolls" if you must call it that (i don't agree with that meaning on that word but whatever..) will not disappear by being kicked / banned, they will florish
(speaking from 5/6 years on photon cycles...)
.. only by getting bored from lack of attention or by being
reformed
the real good thing (once the team realizes that one of 'theirs" is "trolling") is to restart the game and kick from lobby if he/she/it comes again...
bad people need to be confronted yes.. not by a computer, but by humans
"trolls" if you must call it that (i don't agree with that meaning on that word but whatever..)
Well, it is the most popular slang for it i guess. Why do you disagree and/or rather what do you imagine i am referring to as troll?
On a sidenote, ignoring and using bnets host kick is what I have been advocating to the players until recently. Maybe the ..."trolls" are not that persitent, but the problem of some being there has proven quite persistent. That's why I am now trying to explore more active solutions.
If i may, the troll is a word that used to be used to describe someone who is literate in the environment it is called a troll in.. while "they" can possibly be unfair, be mean, a troll is meant to be funny...
lobby blockers are not funny (lobby impersonators even less)
they destroy communities
Was just commenting on the word now meaning everything i typed up until and forgetting the funny / never referencing it...
sorry i'm old
If players can't identify and "cure" the people ruining games through socialising a tiny bit then the "bad troll" wins, if they do.. they lose precious game minutes the started game etc .. but the "bad troll" loses quite literally forever.
it happened on pc .. jade and maxi prone put vote kick on NA but it wasn't implemented on EU...
the EULA says it clearly by the way.. one can get a map banned if it treats any player different than the others (lol @ voting in a video game, you kids are so much fun, you don't vote but you want to fake vote in a video game.. i don't get it but again, it is me the culprit)
the village idiots exists, one must confront and attempt to reform them into more productive part of our society
looking the other way makes it go elsewhere, never disappear..
one is always someone's cunt/dumb ass, ask old folks they'll tell you.. however "clean" you wish to feel yourself as, you are / i am someone's "x" !
if one innocent person is victim to this vote kick (i have been in pc) through no fault of his/her own .. do you chalk it up to acceptable quota?
All systems are syphoned .. so any vote kick can be abused by the abuser...
Mapmakers are not playing their map.. they do not live this, so far as i know it makes sense that they would hide behind such lazy practices out of innocent naivety i guess.
sad
gaming is very elitist.. you shouldn't enable nor encourage the debacle of the republic through gaming systems would be my 2 cents.
I personally like to trol and get banned without warning and right off the bat happened to a few minecraft servers to. When I get banned I was just having a little fun and would prob do it only once then cool down and play. I think warnings will work well. To bad I can't go back in time and warn my self. And if you bann to much that also stops the rating of youre game if friends wanna play with each other. A vote kick or any warning system not a few words warning system that would be pointless. A vote kick would work best but is over abused in probes vs zealots because of noobs feeding mister Z so just think well on whatever you do.
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Hi,
I am currently considering trigger-based ban-(/auto-kick)-lists. The most recent and relevant threads I found are those:
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/off-topic/71069-unwanted-player-question-and-concern/#posts http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/triggers/73266-permanently-ban-player-arcade-map/
both more then a year old.
The particular questions would be about your experience with:
a) Blizzard enforcing the TOS about restricting access
b) Success of actually getting rid of trolls that way
Last time I read above threads I got disencouraged enough to let it rest until now :/
It's kinda disheartening to tell people to outlast the trolls when they go as far as asking mappers in their region for example code to provide to me.
Thanks for answers in advance, zuPloed
I think that the best safe way to ban someone is to fill a variable in the triggers, with the ID of people to ban. And check the list at the beginning of each game, compare with each player. To get their ID, you can build a trigger to add an admin command in game only for you, which would display to you the ID of the player to ban. Then you paste the ID get in the trigger.
Of course, people banned can create a new free acount. But remember you can ban these new accounts probably faster than they create new accounts.
Considering the TOS, instead of banning (which is mainly to make people lose at the start), you may disadvantage them in some ways, so they can't troll. But I know that some map have a ban system, so it must not really be an issue.
Thanks for the reply, a little clarification:
- I am not asking about the technical how-to. But whether it really helps or is just offset by them making new free accounts
- Disadvantaging them wont really work since it is a teamgame and the trolls focus on disadvantaging their own team, making the match unfun due to the resulting unbalance between the two teams
Maybe I should also exten with a third question:
What can vote kick do, what can it not do?
Again it's not about the technical level, I think I can handle that, but will it solve or reduce the the problem.
Banning fast is also not that trivial, since I wouldn't really have time to ban the same persons 3 times an evening for example.
It will depend on the will of trolls to troll. Facing a ban system will lead them to compare their fun having to troll to the necessity of creating new accounts, which is boring. Almost sure they would give up quite quickly, but it may depend on the speed of the ban.
If you can ban them without breaking the game, I think you could only disadvantage them too, but it can require some work to take it in consideration in balance.
It can make a player instantly lose, and write something in the bank of the concerned player to make him instantly lose next games. But this player would only need to delete his bank, or to paste a saved bank to get rid of the ban. It is why I wrote about a hard coded list of banned players. But you could write a list of banned players in the bank of everybody too. So if at least one player got the concern player in his bank bann list, it can work.
If you still ask about the TOS, I don't know. Anyways, if you watch the game Desert Strike, there is an afk kick system, which doesn't make the afk player lose, but prevent him to do anything. Considering how much this game is played, it must be tolerated.
Yeah, do vote-kick or other ways for playes to be able to de-troll the game.
I think ban-lists are the best way to get most buthurt value. It makes it personal which at best makes people complain on b-net forum (like mafia) and at worst purposely utilizing bots to ruin it by making game unhostable.
Some info here : http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/data/116872-moderators-dont-like-me-on-mafia/#p3
Seems that Mafia goes the evil side. The funny fact is that their game is about to troll, not sure about what they want, maybe to teach people what is a good troll, and what is a bad troll xD Their popularity may drop quickly.
@zuPloed: Go
here is how i would create a banlist now:
create a new mod, inside the mod create a new trigger library. create a new function which returns a boolean and takes a string as parameter (or integer for player). inside this function you will check through all hardcoded player handles (either use a variable with array or use user data types) and compare to the parameter.
add this mod to your map, at map start you check through all players and call the function from the library, if true kick the player.
a mod has the big advantage that you dont need to update the map each time = way faster upload. you will be able to ban new accounts within 2 minutes
optional but very useful: also create a trigger in your library to write playername + playerhandle to a bank file on command (i.e. type -print = create new bank Players). this will allow other players to easily report other players to you, just request the bank file + name
Personally, I'd recommend you be very cautious about actually banning people.
With [Probes vs Zealot 2] we have a fair bit of 'trouble' with trolls over the years, and have tried several methods to manage. Any severe action (like banning) has typically made the troll significantly worse for a reasonably long period of time (at least weeks). The worst trolling action is the capability to prevent players being able to play by obtaining Host of a lobby, and host just kicking people from said lobby for hours and hours and hours. It happens. You dont want it to happen to your game, especially if it is popular.
There are more subtle options, and escalation paths with those options. For example: 1) text tag "troll" 2) negative buffs for 'trolls'. 3) inhibit ranking up in game (but not ability to play). 4) Changed Models for troll units (if this makes sense in context of game) [The WC3 Axe Wielder?]
other players can also be encouraged to self moderate, with Vote Kick systems. (BUT these Vote Kick systems tend to have their own downsides).
Whilst all the above are ideas, the key thing i recommend is to use all of them as a last resort but ALWAYS remember: Trolls seek attention. So ignore them. If you need to act, create capability that allows the other players in game to effectively ignore them
5)
Thanks for all further replies.
Good luck to mafia :)
I have been trying to ignore trolling for almost a year now, but recently more and more people are bringing trolling to my attention.
By trolling I here stricktly mean joining a game with the intention of sabotaging the team they joined.
I guess what I will explore is a mix/combination of a vote-kick system and afk-detection + rebalancing... Players can vote for a player to be on probation and if the map detects trolling it will deploy countermeassures on its own.
I am wondering if it's smart or the opposite to leave the player on probation in the dark about vote/probation and countermeassure (as far as possible).
+ I like the idea of trolls trolling on without realizing they do no harm anymore
- But it might actually piss them of more once they realize or spark feelings about unjust treatment
I think that solution is good for several reasons:
Could someone comment more on the downsides of votekicks and whether they apply more or less for my idea?
[sigh] first world problems
Vote kick = ignore function on twit ch
"trolls" if you must call it that (i don't agree with that meaning on that word but whatever..) will not disappear by being kicked / banned, they will florish
(speaking from 5/6 years on photon cycles...)
.. only by getting bored from lack of attention or by being
reformed
the real good thing (once the team realizes that one of 'theirs" is "trolling") is to restart the game and kick from lobby if he/she/it comes again...
bad people need to be confronted yes.. not by a computer, but by humans
[sigh]
Well, it is the most popular slang for it i guess. Why do you disagree and/or rather what do you imagine i am referring to as troll?
On a sidenote, ignoring and using bnets host kick is what I have been advocating to the players until recently. Maybe the ..."trolls" are not that persitent, but the problem of some being there has proven quite persistent. That's why I am now trying to explore more active solutions.
If i may, the troll is a word that used to be used to describe someone who is literate in the environment it is called a troll in.. while "they" can possibly be unfair, be mean, a troll is meant to be funny...
lobby blockers are not funny (lobby impersonators even less)
they destroy communities
Was just commenting on the word now meaning everything i typed up until and forgetting the funny / never referencing it...
sorry i'm old
If players can't identify and "cure" the people ruining games through socialising a tiny bit then the "bad troll" wins, if they do.. they lose precious game minutes the started game etc .. but the "bad troll" loses quite literally forever.
it happened on pc .. jade and maxi prone put vote kick on NA but it wasn't implemented on EU...
the EULA says it clearly by the way.. one can get a map banned if it treats any player different than the others (lol @ voting in a video game, you kids are so much fun, you don't vote but you want to fake vote in a video game.. i don't get it but again, it is me the culprit)
All systems are syphoned .. so any vote kick can be abused by the abuser...
Mapmakers are not playing their map.. they do not live this, so far as i know it makes sense that they would hide behind such lazy practices out of innocent naivety i guess.
sad
gaming is very elitist.. you shouldn't enable nor encourage the debacle of the republic through gaming systems would be my 2 cents.
Do not bother with ban lists, they are not worth it. Anyone you "ban" can just make a new account and play your map thanks to free Arcade.
The best way to stop trolls is to troll-proof your map or to stop feeding them.
I personally like to trol and get banned without warning and right off the bat happened to a few minecraft servers to. When I get banned I was just having a little fun and would prob do it only once then cool down and play. I think warnings will work well. To bad I can't go back in time and warn my self. And if you bann to much that also stops the rating of youre game if friends wanna play with each other. A vote kick or any warning system not a few words warning system that would be pointless. A vote kick would work best but is over abused in probes vs zealots because of noobs feeding mister Z so just think well on whatever you do.