Blizzard is a stupid dummy head. . . YAY!!! Ok, pointlessly complaining is now out of the way.
If you've been busy complaining in one of the recent "ZOMG BLIZARD ARE TEH STUPID I HAIT SO MUCH!" threads you're an idiot. That's right, every. . . single. . . one of you. Idiots.
So what should you do about it? Work with me. Right now. Or else I will drive to your house and kill you. . . with a rusty spork. . . that's right. . . death threats on the internet. . . this just got serious!
ANYWAYS Everyone is being dumb and depressing and whiney and mopey and emo and. . . and. . .
. . . do I really need to go on?
How you can fight the system!
Step 1) Stop trying to get Blizzard's attention!
Blizzard doesn't play your map. Blizzard doesn't increase the popularity. Blizzard isn't your audience. So why do you all think Blizzard is the group you should be yelling and screaming at? Clearly it is possible to find and play your map, but your audience doesn't know it. Why? Because you are completely ignoring your audience.
Step 2) Educate yourself (stop being idiots)
Now that you know you're all stupid and that yelling at Blizzard isn't the solution, what CAN we do? Stop being lazy! If you have a published map and you didn't make at least 3 Project Threads (each on a different site) a YouTube video and at least one other medium for getting attention (blog, website, forum, etc.) then you're doing it wrong. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say it's YOUR fault no one is playing your map. The times have changed and you need to adapt. There are plenty of people willing to help make proper advertising tools. Take advantage of this!
But there is one very important thing that needs to be addressed: your map might suck.
Yep, I said it. Your map might be a complete waste of your time. No amount of boosting or advertising or hacking will change that. Most of you aren't being honest with yourself. If your map sucks, you need to figure it out as soon as possible and do something about it. I don't care how much you love your idea, if it sucks, you have to be able to admit it. You can't rely on luck to get your map where you want it to be.
Most importantly, you need to have access to a second opinion you trust. You will NOT create a good map entirely on your own. If there are teams of talented mappers that are abandoning projects left and right clearly we all know how many abandoned solo projects must be out there.
Step 3) Set your goals
Almost all of you fail to ask yourself 3 questions that determine everything about your map:
Who is the map for?
Why are you making it?
Can this map actually do what you want it to?
STOP FOCUSING ON THE POPULARITY BAR
It is pathetic how many of you complain about not having a popular map without realizing your map simply can't be popular. Given how the system is setup you can't assume that your map is going to be popular just because people enjoy playing it.
Consider most arcade-esque games (Bejeweled is a good example). These kinds of games aren't designed to bring the masses together into a community. They're highly replayable games that pass the time. If you don't have the time to play a more serious game, you probably look to single player games that will fill the 10mins until you have to go to blahdy blah with John Doe.
It's foolish to believe that your game is failing if it isn't at the top of the popularity system. Chances are it'll be on page 5 billion and 2 because anyone playing it won't actually give credit towards its popularity. That doesn't mean the popularity system is broken or that Blizzard is a big evil Jew.
Answering these questions void at least half of the whining you're currently doing. Be realistic, not every map needs to be massively popular and most obviously shouldn't be popular.
Step 4) Work with me
By now, I'm hoping the reality of the situation is starting to sink in: you're wasting your efforts in the wrong areas. I can help. I've been trying to do this for a while now, but obviously I wasn't direct enough.
I want to create 4 things:
Collaborative Tutorials
I think by now most people will agree that I'm pretty good at making tutorials. While difficult, my tutorials are easy to follow. Why is that important? Because I want to make more and I need help. Obviously I don't know everything about the editor, but there are people out there who know many things I'd like to teach but lack the knowledge to do so.
What's the plan?
I'm going to make at least 1 new tutorial a week for the Data Editor. I will start with 1 every 2 weeks while organizing these systems, but I want to get back to my old schedule.
THE CATCH: I will only do this if people step forward to help me create additional tutorials for Triggers, Terrain, Modelling and so forth.
I know most people don't like tutorials because they don't look forward to explaining to everyone how to do something, especially if you find it hard to teach others. I will provide tutorial templates that have all the pretty colors that I use in mine and solid structure that you will follow. This will cut down the work that you have to do.
But wait! There's more! I'll help proof the tutorial! All you have to worry about is getting the knowledge down in written format and then I'll make sure people can understand it. Not only will tutorials be less of a hassle to create if you work with me, but you'll develop an important skill that every major gaming company is looking for: Communication.
Project Support Group(s)
I know there are already forum sections devoted to this, but I feel it could use more structure and attention. Most people drop their project in there and wait for people to tell them what to fix. They don't go to other projects and give back. That's a problem.
I bet most people would love to know what some of the more prominent figures think about their project. At the same time, I'm, sure EVERYONE could provide at least SOME kind of constructive advice. You don't have to be a modder to recognize when something looks fun to you. There are even fewer qualifications for being able to say "I think this sucks." We need more of this. Not because negativity is a good thing, but because most projects aren't getting the proper shake down they need. If we want better maps we need to take our feedback more seriously!
What's the plan?
I get a LOT of messages from people asking me to help them with this or beta test that. People like to know what I think about their map, especially how to make it cooler Data-wise. I'm sure there are other mappers out there who get the same requests that I do. So let's do something about that.
Once a week I'll go through the various forum sections and PMs I get with the sole purpose of helping people improve their map. This includes everything from testing the map to providing mini-tutorials on how to implement features I think might improve your map.
THE CATCH: I want at least 2 other people who will run through the maps with me. You need to be knowledgeable in at least one section of the editor (Data Editor excluded).
The idea is we hop in skype, run through a list of new projects that have been posted and give a rough impression, suggest tweaks and even explain how to implement some of them if necessary. With a well-rounded group we’d be able to cover all aspects of the project and stimulate the community. It’s also really nice to get feedback as a mapper.
A caveat: if you post your project without giving other mappers feedback, we’ll ignore your project. I support group efforts and selfish individuals will be left behind. It’s not that hard to spend 5-10mins helping your fellow mapper out.
Even if I don't accept your offer to help in one of the above areas (I WILL be selective, I want dedicated and experienced people driving this effort), you can still help. If you aren't aware, SC2Mapster is considered THE place to go for SC2 Mapping information. Ironically, it is also considered the smallest and whiniest lot. How did that happen? We didn't set standards.
If you are complaining about this and moaning about that, this site isn't the place for you. We have a reputation as a reliable source of information, but we falter in every way outside of that. Many of you even believe the community is dying and you're right! There isn't a strong sense of community here and outside of hard mapping facts, there isn't much to do. Heck, the Mapster stream sometimes doesn't even hit the double digits! What's up with that?
I guarantee you that if onetwo or Helral or myself had decided to make our home at some other site, Mapster would be dead and that site would have the spotlight. This site sprang up from the helpful tutorials and knowledge early members provided, but it can only thrive through the community.
Stop being idiots. Stop complaining about trivial things. You are embarrassing yourself and this community with your childish tantrums. If you want Blizzard to care about what you think, show them you're not petty fools butthurt over your lack of success. The popularity system is broken, but that need not prevent us from enjoying the many opportunities available to us.
If you support this thread and what I want to do, apply here, through PMs, through any means you know of communicating with me.
After reading this, if you actually read the entire post, SHOW your support. Apologize to Blizzard, apologize to the community for your ridiculous shenanigans and let the community know you're better than the popularity system.
Didn't you already make this but people spammed? I wish I could help, although some of it I skimmed through, but I don't have any skills in anything except a little knowledge in the data editor.
Not in the slightest. There is a reason why you made 4 different threads that poked at Blizzard in a slightly different way. Slanted posts are not facts.
Not in the slightest. There is a reason why you made 4 different threads that poked at Blizzard in a slightly different way. Slanted posts are not facts.
The battle.net system is in fact good.
A good aspect is:
- no multiple versions -> no loading 10 billion times + no waiting for downloading players in public games
- no buggy versions or map editions with "secret" cheats would maintain
It only needs some additions to help us playing maps that aren't popular, yet.
-> I would like to test maps that aren't popular, but I would like to be able to join a game out of a list of random games in which I can filter and select a map that I want. I wouldn't want to join "king of the kill"-maps or roleplay maps or "social" maps (you know that map... he annoyed everyone more than enough with it).
Since I don't like to wait forever in the lobby because the map is unpopular, there is one necessity:
- The maps listed need to have at least 1 player inside the game. So the list isn't endless.
Basically this is "Top or Flop" with a list of random games that contain at least 1 player. I would make the list length static and just show x random games and add a button that loads x new random games.
"Top or Flop" keeps sending me to the same game and map and if I don't like it I'm screwed until the map started.
THE CATCH: I want at least 2 other people who will run through the maps with me. You need to be knowledgeable in at least one section of the editor (Data Editor excluded).
I will gladly join you in on that as a "knowledgeable terrain person", if you let me that is. Even if we play in different regions, if we're on skype there's no reason we can't start up the map at the same time and discuss even if we're not in the same game.
I could also take you up on that tutorial offer, if I knew what people want a terraining tutorial about.
I do editor-stuff for the sole reason that it is a fun way to pass the time and might end up giving people fun ways to pass their time, and I have something at the end of it that I can look at and say to myself "I made that", if it gets extremely well-known and liked I see that as a bonus-prize, as long as I can look at it and be proud of what I've done.
I always set out to do the best of what I am capable of, which also is the reason why a lot of things I start doing never get finished.
But hell, I can't lie and say that the road up to the point where I can't be arsed with it anymore has ever been anything but dull.
I'm surprised that there are so many people that focus so much on acknowledgement and being noticed that it lets a system that doesn't work the way you want it to ruin the fun in mapmaking for you. You wouldn't be here if you didn't enjoy making maps. (Unless you just like to complain about stuff, of course)
Strong post. People wine cause nothing (nothing radical) is being done, and here you propose to do something. A group of people to take guidance of wining masses and strengthen them. Nothing ever gets done by itself, someone needs to take control, that is true.
I hope you find people whom you're searching for.
(and I'll play my regular shmoes part by frequenting player zone and workplace.)
I'm still with Rodrigo. Blizzard is an increasingly sad thing to look at; no point in not attempting to annoy the shit out of them while it still sucks. Besides there are already plenty of perfectly fine tutorials out there.
This post is good; I want to mention though, once you're experienced at the editor it's pretty easy to get a map popular (speaking from personal experience). Several of my maps were created on a whim of 'this would be fun' and then I powered through them in weeks (whilst in the middle of my longer term RPG). Upon release, yeah they struggle to get going, but after a game or 2 with a group of friends it's seeded enough to climb to page 1.
However, most of my maps have died after a month or so because I just couldn't keep up with updates. But yeah, SC2 does provide a way to get your map known more so than War3 (I find). However, it is annoying not being able to just randomly test with bums online.
I'd like to think I present a view from someone who plays(ed) custom maps, makes custom maps, and has had success but still frustration. I can't speak for everyone (as Prozaic says, some maps just won't be popular), but sometimes you know you're onto something good and it WILL be popular. But support/test groups = a must. First versions always suck...
Anyway, I'm willing to help out in some areas as needed (eg if youre busy at times prozaic). I can't guarantee myself to an area because I can barely do my own tutorials at the moment lol.
@Proziacmuze
(No, Rodrigo, you are a whiner. Way to completely miss the point of this thread.
You fail, try again. )
hat do you have against rodrigo? he's funny man... he doesn't whine his maps are kick ass. well except for platform defense. i liked his banana cheaters game a lot though too bad people are a bunch of sheep and dont like to try new things heh. just like you
@h34dl4g:
(Sucking Blizzards cock.)
um ok.... just smile and nod and................... CALL FOR THE PEOPLE WITH WHITE COATS o.O to send him to the spa. (asylum)
Blizzard is a stupid dummy head. . . YAY!!! Ok, pointlessly complaining is now out of the way.
If you've been busy complaining in one of the recent "ZOMG BLIZARD ARE TEH STUPID I HAIT SO MUCH!" threads you're an idiot. That's right, every. . . single. . . one of you. Idiots.
So what should you do about it? Work with me. Right now. Or else I will drive to your house and kill you. . . with a rusty spork. . . that's right. . . death threats on the internet. . . this just got serious!
ANYWAYS Everyone is being dumb and depressing and whiney and mopey and emo and. . . and. . . . . . do I really need to go on?
How you can fight the system!
Step 1) Stop trying to get Blizzard's attention!
Blizzard doesn't play your map. Blizzard doesn't increase the popularity. Blizzard isn't your audience. So why do you all think Blizzard is the group you should be yelling and screaming at? Clearly it is possible to find and play your map, but your audience doesn't know it. Why? Because you are completely ignoring your audience.
Step 2) Educate yourself (stop being idiots)
Now that you know you're all stupid and that yelling at Blizzard isn't the solution, what CAN we do? Stop being lazy! If you have a published map and you didn't make at least 3 Project Threads (each on a different site) a YouTube video and at least one other medium for getting attention (blog, website, forum, etc.) then you're doing it wrong. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say it's YOUR fault no one is playing your map. The times have changed and you need to adapt. There are plenty of people willing to help make proper advertising tools. Take advantage of this!
But there is one very important thing that needs to be addressed: your map might suck.
Yep, I said it. Your map might be a complete waste of your time. No amount of boosting or advertising or hacking will change that. Most of you aren't being honest with yourself. If your map sucks, you need to figure it out as soon as possible and do something about it. I don't care how much you love your idea, if it sucks, you have to be able to admit it. You can't rely on luck to get your map where you want it to be.
Most importantly, you need to have access to a second opinion you trust. You will NOT create a good map entirely on your own. If there are teams of talented mappers that are abandoning projects left and right clearly we all know how many abandoned solo projects must be out there.
Step 3) Set your goals
Almost all of you fail to ask yourself 3 questions that determine everything about your map:
STOP FOCUSING ON THE POPULARITY BAR
It is pathetic how many of you complain about not having a popular map without realizing your map simply can't be popular. Given how the system is setup you can't assume that your map is going to be popular just because people enjoy playing it.
Consider most arcade-esque games (Bejeweled is a good example). These kinds of games aren't designed to bring the masses together into a community. They're highly replayable games that pass the time. If you don't have the time to play a more serious game, you probably look to single player games that will fill the 10mins until you have to go to blahdy blah with John Doe.
It's foolish to believe that your game is failing if it isn't at the top of the popularity system. Chances are it'll be on page 5 billion and 2 because anyone playing it won't actually give credit towards its popularity. That doesn't mean the popularity system is broken or that Blizzard is a big evil Jew.
Answering these questions void at least half of the whining you're currently doing. Be realistic, not every map needs to be massively popular and most obviously shouldn't be popular.
Step 4) Work with me
By now, I'm hoping the reality of the situation is starting to sink in: you're wasting your efforts in the wrong areas. I can help. I've been trying to do this for a while now, but obviously I wasn't direct enough.
I want to create 4 things:
Collaborative Tutorials
I think by now most people will agree that I'm pretty good at making tutorials. While difficult, my tutorials are easy to follow. Why is that important? Because I want to make more and I need help. Obviously I don't know everything about the editor, but there are people out there who know many things I'd like to teach but lack the knowledge to do so.
What's the plan?
I'm going to make at least 1 new tutorial a week for the Data Editor. I will start with 1 every 2 weeks while organizing these systems, but I want to get back to my old schedule.
THE CATCH: I will only do this if people step forward to help me create additional tutorials for Triggers, Terrain, Modelling and so forth.
I know most people don't like tutorials because they don't look forward to explaining to everyone how to do something, especially if you find it hard to teach others. I will provide tutorial templates that have all the pretty colors that I use in mine and solid structure that you will follow. This will cut down the work that you have to do.
But wait! There's more! I'll help proof the tutorial! All you have to worry about is getting the knowledge down in written format and then I'll make sure people can understand it. Not only will tutorials be less of a hassle to create if you work with me, but you'll develop an important skill that every major gaming company is looking for: Communication.
Project Support Group(s)
I know there are already forum sections devoted to this, but I feel it could use more structure and attention. Most people drop their project in there and wait for people to tell them what to fix. They don't go to other projects and give back. That's a problem.
I bet most people would love to know what some of the more prominent figures think about their project. At the same time, I'm, sure EVERYONE could provide at least SOME kind of constructive advice. You don't have to be a modder to recognize when something looks fun to you. There are even fewer qualifications for being able to say "I think this sucks." We need more of this. Not because negativity is a good thing, but because most projects aren't getting the proper shake down they need. If we want better maps we need to take our feedback more seriously!
What's the plan?
I get a LOT of messages from people asking me to help them with this or beta test that. People like to know what I think about their map, especially how to make it cooler Data-wise. I'm sure there are other mappers out there who get the same requests that I do. So let's do something about that.
Once a week I'll go through the various forum sections and PMs I get with the sole purpose of helping people improve their map. This includes everything from testing the map to providing mini-tutorials on how to implement features I think might improve your map.
THE CATCH: I want at least 2 other people who will run through the maps with me. You need to be knowledgeable in at least one section of the editor (Data Editor excluded).
The idea is we hop in skype, run through a list of new projects that have been posted and give a rough impression, suggest tweaks and even explain how to implement some of them if necessary. With a well-rounded group we’d be able to cover all aspects of the project and stimulate the community. It’s also really nice to get feedback as a mapper.
A caveat: if you post your project without giving other mappers feedback, we’ll ignore your project. I support group efforts and selfish individuals will be left behind. It’s not that hard to spend 5-10mins helping your fellow mapper out.
Review Panel
I’ve already explained this in detail here.
A Reliable Community
Even if I don't accept your offer to help in one of the above areas (I WILL be selective, I want dedicated and experienced people driving this effort), you can still help. If you aren't aware, SC2Mapster is considered THE place to go for SC2 Mapping information. Ironically, it is also considered the smallest and whiniest lot. How did that happen? We didn't set standards.
If you are complaining about this and moaning about that, this site isn't the place for you. We have a reputation as a reliable source of information, but we falter in every way outside of that. Many of you even believe the community is dying and you're right! There isn't a strong sense of community here and outside of hard mapping facts, there isn't much to do. Heck, the Mapster stream sometimes doesn't even hit the double digits! What's up with that?
I guarantee you that if onetwo or Helral or myself had decided to make our home at some other site, Mapster would be dead and that site would have the spotlight. This site sprang up from the helpful tutorials and knowledge early members provided, but it can only thrive through the community.
Stop being idiots. Stop complaining about trivial things. You are embarrassing yourself and this community with your childish tantrums. If you want Blizzard to care about what you think, show them you're not petty fools butthurt over your lack of success. The popularity system is broken, but that need not prevent us from enjoying the many opportunities available to us.
If you support this thread and what I want to do, apply here, through PMs, through any means you know of communicating with me.
After reading this, if you actually read the entire post, SHOW your support. Apologize to Blizzard, apologize to the community for your ridiculous shenanigans and let the community know you're better than the popularity system.
Didn't you already make this but people spammed? I wish I could help, although some of it I skimmed through, but I don't have any skills in anything except a little knowledge in the data editor.
Whiners are the melee players.
No, Rodrigo, you are a whiner. Way to completely miss the point of this thread.
You fail, try again.
@ Keyeszx - If you aren't already, you can help out in the project threads. Give people some quality feedback :)
@ProzaicMuze: Go
I'm not whinning. I was only stating the facts.
Not in the slightest. There is a reason why you made 4 different threads that poked at Blizzard in a slightly different way. Slanted posts are not facts.
"Map of the week" has nothing to do with it.
Nice read!
The battle.net system is in fact good.
A good aspect is:
- no multiple versions -> no loading 10 billion times + no waiting for downloading players in public games
- no buggy versions or map editions with "secret" cheats would maintain
It only needs some additions to help us playing maps that aren't popular, yet.
-> I would like to test maps that aren't popular, but I would like to be able to join a game out of a list of random games in which I can filter and select a map that I want. I wouldn't want to join "king of the kill"-maps or roleplay maps or "social" maps (you know that map... he annoyed everyone more than enough with it).
Since I don't like to wait forever in the lobby because the map is unpopular, there is one necessity:
- The maps listed need to have at least 1 player inside the game. So the list isn't endless.
Basically this is "Top or Flop" with a list of random games that contain at least 1 player. I would make the list length static and just show x random games and add a button that loads x new random games.
"Top or Flop" keeps sending me to the same game and map and if I don't like it I'm screwed until the map started.
In addition to that Rodrigo is a whiner, yes.
I've been waiting for an opportunity like this lately to show more dedication to this forum, being one of the moderators and all.
I will gladly join you in on that as a "knowledgeable terrain person", if you let me that is. Even if we play in different regions, if we're on skype there's no reason we can't start up the map at the same time and discuss even if we're not in the same game.
I could also take you up on that tutorial offer, if I knew what people want a terraining tutorial about.
I do editor-stuff for the sole reason that it is a fun way to pass the time and might end up giving people fun ways to pass their time, and I have something at the end of it that I can look at and say to myself "I made that", if it gets extremely well-known and liked I see that as a bonus-prize, as long as I can look at it and be proud of what I've done.
I always set out to do the best of what I am capable of, which also is the reason why a lot of things I start doing never get finished.
But hell, I can't lie and say that the road up to the point where I can't be arsed with it anymore has ever been anything but dull.
I'm surprised that there are so many people that focus so much on acknowledgement and being noticed that it lets a system that doesn't work the way you want it to ruin the fun in mapmaking for you. You wouldn't be here if you didn't enjoy making maps. (Unless you just like to complain about stuff, of course)
@ProzaicMuze:
How was it?
Did you like it?
Strong post. People wine cause nothing (nothing radical) is being done, and here you propose to do something. A group of people to take guidance of wining masses and strengthen them. Nothing ever gets done by itself, someone needs to take control, that is true.
I hope you find people whom you're searching for.
(and I'll play my regular shmoes part by frequenting player zone and workplace.)
Oh yes. . . it was so passionate. . . unfortunately I don't know what it is that I am enjoying so thoroughly :S
I'm still with Rodrigo. Blizzard is an increasingly sad thing to look at; no point in not attempting to annoy the shit out of them while it still sucks. Besides there are already plenty of perfectly fine tutorials out there.
I can run through maps. I can do triggers, data, and terrain.
I'm also a very funny drunk.
This post is good; I want to mention though, once you're experienced at the editor it's pretty easy to get a map popular (speaking from personal experience). Several of my maps were created on a whim of 'this would be fun' and then I powered through them in weeks (whilst in the middle of my longer term RPG). Upon release, yeah they struggle to get going, but after a game or 2 with a group of friends it's seeded enough to climb to page 1.
However, most of my maps have died after a month or so because I just couldn't keep up with updates. But yeah, SC2 does provide a way to get your map known more so than War3 (I find). However, it is annoying not being able to just randomly test with bums online.
I'd like to think I present a view from someone who plays(ed) custom maps, makes custom maps, and has had success but still frustration. I can't speak for everyone (as Prozaic says, some maps just won't be popular), but sometimes you know you're onto something good and it WILL be popular. But support/test groups = a must. First versions always suck...
Anyway, I'm willing to help out in some areas as needed (eg if youre busy at times prozaic). I can't guarantee myself to an area because I can barely do my own tutorials at the moment lol.
!?"§%&$ Blizzards %&$!.
@h34dl4g: Go
You're probably going to want to watch your tone.
Can we ban this kid already?. Not sure why this troll is still around.
@Proziacmuze (No, Rodrigo, you are a whiner. Way to completely miss the point of this thread.
You fail, try again. )
hat do you have against rodrigo? he's funny man... he doesn't whine his maps are kick ass. well except for platform defense. i liked his banana cheaters game a lot though too bad people are a bunch of sheep and dont like to try new things heh. just like you
@h34dl4g: (Sucking Blizzards cock.)
um ok.... just smile and nod and................... CALL FOR THE PEOPLE WITH WHITE COATS o.O to send him to the spa. (asylum)
@EternalWraith: Go
Ban me after "Sexy Game Quiz" please.
Still not finished, have no time at the moment.